Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote mith

These will be good competing wagons.

[mith]

DemonHybrid: "So, you don't even look at what I have to say about Chris B?" - Are you for real? I didn't have time to post more than a check-in, and hadn't read anything new... but no, apparently taking a day off to spend time with my girlfriend is worth noting to a player who would never ever disappear for days at a time, say, or stall on posting anything of substance.[/sarcasm]

I haven't hounded Chris B a lot because I think he's town, but then I don't tend to hound people over their quantity of posts so much as the quality and the timing of them. Obviously there is a big difference in someone saying they will "post tonight" and then not posting for three days vs. someone who isn't posting because of a stated V/LA (443).

Anyway, aside from the town read I already had on him, Chris B is likely town for the reason Amrun explained; he

could

have meant team talk instead of day-talk among the scumgroup (doubtful, if he comes from a site where daytalk is common), or he

could

just be clever scum planting "slips" that make us think he's town, but the way it happened doesn't seem to support either of those.

IP: I don't get the LlamaFluff-Amrun vibe... I don't see what their endgame would be for the way they're playing. They get me lynched and... then what? I guess if my personal scumlist was the consensus, they'd be in pretty bad shape and might try something desperate, but I don't think Amrun-scum would have felt that much pressure on coming into the game. It just feels to me like the only reason for him to come out swinging at me as scum is if he's chainsaw-defending DemonHybrid. Who you should be voting for.

Sotty under (not that much) pressure does not feel as town as she did earlier in the game. Also feel that if anyone has been "echoing" in our interaction it's been her (though I have certainly agreed with much of what she's said, she's followed me today on both the DemonHybrid vote and the more general "scum-off-wagon" thinking), so that comment doesn't sit right.

Llamarble and Sevei both seem to be coasting under the radar right now; Sevei's hardly contributed at all since her wagon started dissolving, except to take parting shots at them, and I'm pretty meh about the wagon analysis IP is using to rule Llamarble out. Need to reread them tomorrow.

[TheButtonmen]

D2VC10:

DH (3): mith, Sotty, Equinox
Sotty (2): Thor, Chris
Amrun (2): Llamarble, IP
mith (2): Amrun, LlamaFluff
Llamarble (1): Sevei
ChrisB (1): DH


Not Voting:

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[Equinox]

THERE ARE FOUR COMPETING WAGONS

FOUR

LLAMAFLUFF HAD BETTER HAVE SOME GOOD REASONS WHY STIRRING UP A FOURTH ONE IS A GOOD IDEA

[Equinox]

HEY, DEMONHYBRID. HEY.

Let me give you some meta evidence because I think it's the strongest point for Chris B.

Let's say you're getting together a team of four for Team Mafia. You've known these players from off-site, and you decide that you'll take someone from the old board, too, who has never played on mafiascum.net before. You look at the player list for Team Mafia, and you see it filled with experienced players, many of them experienced ICs and SEs. The PMs come in. For the sake of argument, you have one red PM and three green PMs. You look at your teammates...

Would you give the red PM to the guy who has never played here before?

[Thor665]

I'd like the Amrun wagon to die methinks.

Sevei and DH should give up the ghosts on their fail wagons. DH is at least trying, but Sevei is not even playing the game at the moment. Either way, neither of those wagons are going anywhere, this makes baby Thor cry (manfully). Move votes somewhere useful.

[LlamaFluff]

THERE ARE FOUR COMPETING WAGONS

FOUR

LLAMAFLUFF HAD BETTER HAVE SOME GOOD REASONS WHY STIRRING UP A FOURTH ONE IS A GOOD IDEA

Because the Amrun one is due to fall apart and the similarities between the reasoning for the mith and Sotty wagons begs for both to be available to see what side people actually fall on when to near identical cases are pushed at the same time in hopes of finding even more possible parters for the two in question.

[Chris B]

DH, was my 'day talk' slip REALLY that ambiguous?

The one where I said:

Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.

The context is scum talk. The phrase 'scum team' may be a giveaway that I was talking about a scum team. The point I was making actually entirely falls apart based on the fact there's still the team talk rather than scum talk. Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.

I'm not liking the amount of crap you're hurling in my direction, and I'm to the point where I'm thinking you're scum getting overly defensive and trying to lynch a less experienced player. I'm also not liking the fact that DGB tried the same tactic.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

[Equinox]

Because the Amrun one is due to fall apart and the similarities between the reasoning for the mith and Sotty wagons begs for both to be available to see what side people actually fall on when to near identical cases are pushed at the same time in hopes of finding even more possible parters for the two in question.

If the situation were indeed mith versus Sotty7, then I can see why you'd jump off Sotty7 and see where things go. However, from my standpoint, that isn't the case right now; you effectively reduced the Sotty7 wagon (someone you're reading, IIRC, as scum) that was competing with the DemonHybrid wagon (someone you're reading as town) to create a mith wagon... leading to the FABULOUSLY COLORFUL wagon we see in TheButtonmen's vote count. Deflate the DemonHybrid wagon if you want results out of the mith-Sotty7 dichotomy.

That said, what do you think of the DemonHybrid wagon and how it built up so far and the fact that both mith and Sotty7 are on it?

My teammate is also interested in the following hypothetical situation: If you were scum with DrippingGoofball, when and how would you have bussed her?

[Llamarble]

At first I thought that was a hammer, but it's not so whee catchup time!

[LlamaFluff]

That said, what do you think of the DemonHybrid wagon and how it built up so far and the fact that both mith and Sotty7 are on it?

Makes me continue to dislike it a whole lot, still, better than Amrun wagon.

My teammate is also interested in the following hypothetical situation: If you were scum with DrippingGoofball, when and how would you have bussed her?

Probably would have put a little bit of pressure there around the time where I voted marble, at least not comitted to that wagon over her since momentum wasnt really predicatble at that point, and the amount of noise generated between SP-DGB ment that the most attention and most likely votes would move there in the near future. For what I would have said... maybe tried to restate what SP said in a way that made more sense and wasnt quite as disjointed mastin-esq "quote quote quote" style. Not sure really but something to steal part of the credit from him if she flipped.

Ive done about everything to defend DH as I really can at this point though, and despite my town read on him, and if town he may not be the worst possible lynch given the town credit I feel he gives to some of my town reads, and should leave who I think is scum in positions to be lynched tomorrow. Not optimal but hardly horrible.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, was my 'day talk' slip REALLY that ambiguous?

The one where I said:

Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.

The context is scum talk. The phrase 'scum team' may be a giveaway that I was talking about a scum team. The point I was making actually entirely falls apart based on the fact there's still the team talk rather than scum talk. Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.

I'm not liking the amount of crap you're hurling in my direction, and I'm to the point where I'm thinking you're scum getting overly defensive and trying to lynch a less experienced player. I'm also not liking the fact that DGB tried the same tactic.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

Is THAT why you're voting me?! Do you even fucking read? You know, when I noted the fact that I missed this post but said "who cares, it still started on Day 2 and you could be scum who received advice from your competent buddy"?

This is opportunism at it's finest, people.

[DemonHybrid]

Anyway, aside from the town read I already had on him, Chris B is likely town for the reason Amrun explained; he could have meant team talk instead of day-talk among the scumgroup (doubtful, if he comes from a site where daytalk is common), or he could just be clever scum planting "slips" that make us think he's town, but the way it happened doesn't seem to support either of those.

We talked about this already. It was clearly explained and I recanted the "it was ambiguous" stuff because I missed vital information

.

Why else is he town? You totally cleverly avoided talking about his play.

Again

.

[DemonHybrid]

HEY, DEMONHYBRID. HEY.

Let me give you some meta evidence because I think it's the strongest point for Chris B.

Let's say you're getting together a team of four for Team Mafia. You've known these players from off-site, and you decide that you'll take someone from the old board, too, who has never played on mafiascum.net before. You look at the player list for Team Mafia, and you see it filled with experienced players, many of them experienced ICs and SEs. The PMs come in. For the sake of argument, you have one red PM and three green PMs. You look at your teammates...

Would you give the red PM to the guy who has never played here before?

Possibly. It depends on a ton of factors, like who that guy is and how competent of a scum player he is.

[Equinox]

Possibly. It depends on a ton of factors, like who that guy is and how competent of a scum player he is.

Do you think this would apply to Chris B?

ALSO, DEMONHYBRID, Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, you seem to remember that. You've played with DrippingGoofball-scum before. Thoughts?

[DemonHybrid]

Possibly. It depends on a ton of factors, like who that guy is and how competent of a scum player he is.

Do you think this would apply to Chris B?

ALSO, DEMONHYBRID, Outdoorsmen Mafia 2, you seem to remember that. You've played with DrippingGoofball-scum before. Thoughts?

I don't know. I'm not relying completely on anything. I'm taking everything about Chris B into account, not just one thing about him and deciding on a read. Who's on his team, anyway?

And I had forgotten that she was in that game. IIRC, I found her hard to read in that game too. She was killed N1 for looking town.

[Llamarble]

Ugh 873 competing wagons makes D2 VCs not super awesome.
I'd say the vote 3/4s on each wagon are unlikely buddies with the wagonees though. *updates network*
And I should have looked at this one from D1 before:

D1VC7:

DGB (6): Socio, Thor, IP, Equinox, Sotty, mith
Llamarble (3): LlamaFluff, Sevei, ChrisB
Socio (1): DGB,
Thor (1): Llamarble

Not Voting: DH, Klazam

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.
DGB is V/LA from May 19-24.

Yay wagon vs counterwagon!
Sotty & Mith get townpoints for voting DGB over me considering both had me as suspicious and both were in position to give my wagon the chance to beat DGB's.
DGB didn't vote for me here but voted for Thor instead. Ending up in a 1v1 with me is suicide though as my vote would already make 7.
The scum urge to counterwagon says 1 of the 3 on my wagon here is scum.
A bit after this VC Fluff gets off, and he puts his vote onto Sevei while defending DGB loudly.
I don't see a lot of scummotive for that; if he's going to outright defend DGBuddy he may as well do it from the wagon with the best chance of beating hers.
After Fluff is off, there's relatively little chance of a lynch that isn't DGB and Sevei hammers.

I don't like the Mith or Sotty wagons.
I'll be sure to look more deeply at DH tomorrow.

[Sevei]

Sorry, I've had a lot of things happen at once, but I think it's under control again and I should be caught up by tomorrow afternoon.

[Chris B]

DH, was my 'day talk' slip REALLY that ambiguous?

The one where I said:

Here's a thought, in the meantime, about Demonhybrid, and why I'm leaning towards thinking 'town'. You had that ridiculous, long-running exchange with llama, which was a complete misunderstanding. It was also a very obvious misunderstanding, and I suspect an on-the-ball scum team would have gone 'hey, you realise you look like an idiot there, right?'.

The context is scum talk. The phrase 'scum team' may be a giveaway that I was talking about a scum team. The point I was making actually entirely falls apart based on the fact there's still the team talk rather than scum talk. Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.

I'm not liking the amount of crap you're hurling in my direction, and I'm to the point where I'm thinking you're scum getting overly defensive and trying to lynch a less experienced player. I'm also not liking the fact that DGB tried the same tactic.

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

Is THAT why you're voting me?! Do you even fucking read? You know, when I noted the fact that I missed this post but said "who cares, it still started on Day 2 and you could be scum who received advice from your competent buddy"?

This is opportunism at it's finest, people.

PLAY THE GAME OF 'WHY PEOPLE LAUGH AT DEMONHYBRID'!

Step 1 - Read the post that I quoted there.

Step 2 - Notice the fact that I quoted the ORIGINAL post, not my second post where I explained it.

Step 3 - Notice the fact that DemonHybrid claims to have 'missed this post but said 'who cares''.

Step 4 - Realise that he's talking about the second post, whereas I've quoted the first post.

Step 5 - Point and laugh at him saying 'Do you even fucking read?' on the basis that he, evidently, doesn't.

[DemonHybrid]

Wow. So, yeah, lets not even focus on the argument. Lets focus on some stupid bullshit that doesn't really make that much sense, like whether or not I missed the original post or the post where you specified it.

You realize that you're completely ignoring the POINT of the fucking situation?

REGARDLESS of the post number (and yes, I missed the implication that you meant scum daytalk in your original post and the specification of all of your posts about scum daytalk afterwards), the fact remains that

1. I first thought it was ambiguous
2. I realized it wasn't
3. I recanted the fact that I thought it was ambiguous still, but said "Who really gives a fuck? You're probably scum with a smart partner that told you to say that."
4. You vote me for 1 and ignore 2 and 3
5. I tell you that you ignored 2 and 3
6. You post some dumb bullshit about how my point isn't valid because I missed post A and was talking about post B, both with point X, even though I was talking about point X in the first place.

Your vote is stupid and opportunistic. It is opportunistic because I have 3 votes on me, with 2 strong multi-player town reads on it. But the reasoning for your vote is non-existent, because I

recanted what you're voting for and explained why the alternative is STILL scummy

, which you continue to ignore.

Once you come down from your dream world where meanings and implications don't matter, but post order does, I'll be here waiting with a fucking noose.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm used to that being the default. It was part of the reason I had the theory of you and IP working together - that would be entirely unworkable if day talk doesn't exist, and would partially explain why nobody else considered the theory.

I can also back up that I'm used to it being the default. I pointed towards my experience on the UKFF - you can see for yourself that I think there's maybe been one game that didn't have day talk if you go onto the site.

Oh, I missed this. I guess it was specified as scum daytalk. For some reason, I thought it was an ambiguous "scum can get advice from their QT" statement that was never explained.

This doesn't confirm anything though and I'm still not convinced. Using some meta to prove my point, I was just in 00's Band Mafia as Green Day; it was the game I was finishing up before completely focusing on this game. Tarsonisocelot, who's a relatively new player, claimed her band to be "Some band called Cage the Elephant; never really heard of them. Their main song is Free Love. Whatever." At the time, she sounded extremely convincing, because not only was she newer and not only did we assume that scum got no fakeclaims, it was also a very obscure song. She was relatively believed until endgame when other factors contributed to her and others' lynches; she ended up being Van Halen.

Anyway, my point is that

scum can lie

about behind-the-scenes stuff like that, like "assuming there's daytalk". Focus on Chris' play. DGB started throwing suspicion on Chris near the end of the day before getting lynched. Chris claims that he thought there was daytalk. However, he's making up cases with weak basis, active lurking and giving spread-out mini-wall posts, all of which are scumtells. Who CARES about whether he thought there was scum daytalk? Scum have night talk. Who cares whether DGB shifted suspicion on him at the -end- of the day? You realize that scum can do that to distance before the end of the day comes in order to relieve suspicion on them? It's the EARLY suspicions that really hit home as far as scum interaction goes and I'm really kinda shocked that everyone is arguing for Chris' innocence by forgetting that.

Like, did you even really read this?

[Chris B]

Wow. So, yeah, lets not even focus on the argument. Lets focus on some stupid bullshit that doesn't really make that much sense, like whether or not I missed the original post or the post where you specified it.

You realize that you're completely ignoring the POINT of the fucking situation?

REGARDLESS of the post number (and yes, I missed the implication that you meant scum daytalk in your original post and the specification of all of your posts about scum daytalk afterwards), the fact remains that

1. I first thought it was ambiguous
2. I realized it wasn't

Except you realised that it wasn't once you read the follow-up post. My point is that the original post wasn't ambiguous either. And using ambiguity to attack me is a bit bullshitty.

3. I recanted the fact that I thought it was ambiguous still, but said "Who really gives a fuck? You're probably scum with a smart partner that told you to say that."

That's not what 'recanted' means. However, I addressed that when I said:

Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.

Don't you fucking read?

4. You vote me for 1 and ignore 2 and 3

Not true. Don't you fucking read?

5. I tell you that you ignored 2 and 3

No, you just misunderstood, because you don't fucking read.

6. You post some dumb bullshit about how my point isn't valid because I missed post A and was talking about post B, both with point X, even though I was talking about point X in the first place.

Slow hand clap.

Your vote is stupid and opportunistic. It is opportunistic because I have 3 votes on me, with 2 strong multi-player town reads on it. But the reasoning for your vote is non-existent, because I

recanted what you're voting for and explained why the alternative is STILL scummy

, which you continue to ignore.

Once you come down from your dream world where meanings and implications don't matter, but post order does, I'll be here waiting with a fucking noose.

[mith]

DH: ~bangs head on desk~

We

didn't talk about this already.

You

talked about this already (a few posts previous, so it's not like you've been discussing it ad nauseum), but I said I would respond and I did so. Now you're getting all uppity because the non-ambiguity of his post is a damn good point in Chris B's favor, and you'd like to move on from that (which blows up your case) to the much more solid ground of "but... but... he

could

be scum!"?

Here's what I think about his play: "ChrisB: I read him as town consistently yesterday... In light of the flip, the vote for Llamarble over DGB looks bad (but that was my first instinct as well, so hard to blame him for it), and I'm a little wary of the "Should I hammer?" post." Chris B didn't post much day 1, but what he posted was cogent and thorough. I found little fault with him throughout day 1 apart from being on the wrong side of the DGB wagon. Day 2, he was on V/LA, and then his

very first post

was the scum-talk post; once I looked at the MD Team Mafia thread to see that there was nothing about day-talk in there, I have basically ruled him out as scum.

Some comments on your case:

"And I don't see how no one views this as "oh shit, my buddy is at L-1. I need time to find out what to do" assuming Chris scum." - This is funny, given your own stalling at the end of day 1.

"He ends up just saying that he agrees with the lynch without a vote, rather keeping his vote on Llamarble." - Why would he do this? If he were scum with DGB, and he's going to say he agrees with the lynch, why not just hammer? He's the only one off-wagon who expresses suspicion of DGB... and that somehow makes him scummy?

"At the time, she sounded extremely convincing, because not only was she newer and not only did we assume that scum got no fakeclaims..." - Really? You're comparing an out-of-nowhere defense (of you, ironically) relying on scum having day-talk to scum having fakeclaims and using them?

"Anyway, my point is that scum can lie" - And my point is that the existence of alternative possibilities does not negate the weight of the tell. Nothing is 100%, and I don't think any of us (apart from IP, and even that may be a bit of rhetoric) are treating reads that way... but that doesn't make the reads magically vanish. This is still a rather large point in Chris B's favor.

"However, he's making up cases with weak basis, active lurking and giving spread-out mini-wall posts, all of which are scumtells." - Even if I accepted that these are scumtells (and the latter certainly is more a playstyle indicator than anything), I don't think he's "active lurking" (which to me means "posting lots without actually saying anything of substance"; with Chris B, I see infrequent but content-filled posts), and I'm not seeing where you've made much of an argument for him "making up cases with weak basis". You did say "In fact, with his weak pushing on Equinox, me..." in the post where you voted him, but there's no elaboration on that point.

Your case seems to focus more on "hey, let's ignore these things that point to Chris B being town, because he

could

be scum anyway" than anything.

"Wow. So, yeah, lets not even focus on the argument." - ~snerk~

---

On Llamarable: Still in my lynch pool for his day 1 behaviour (off wagon + DGB interaction with him), despite Ythill's disagreement.

Some good scumhunting to start day 2, but I'm pretty meh on him making a big flashy (entirely contentless) pairing graph and then not really doing anything with it since (in fact, apart from his most recent post I'm missing where he's discussed pairings at all).

Llamarable: What does your "network" look like at the moment? What pairings have you ruled out, and why? Why are you still voting Amrun instead of DH?

---

On Sevei: No big change in my read of the day 1 stuff... She hammered, and it carries more weight for me than if one of the other off-wagon players had been the hammer, since she was arguing for a Llamarble/DGB connection (that is, it doesn't read like just an attempt to look good via bussing); that doesn't clear her, but I still see it as a point in her favor.

Up to her ISO 15/19, she feels pretty genuine to me... but the OMGUS at her wagon is a negative, even taking into account that her top suspect (Llamarble) is in that group. She doesn't seem to have much reasoning for the others on the wagon being suspect other than that they are on the wagon (i.e. the faulty probability argument), which makes the former post feel like lashing out at her wagon indiscriminantly, only turning her attention back to top suspect Llamarble in the next post, after the wagon starts to dissolve.

Still leaning town, but I want to ask: Sevei, do you have any reason to suspect the others on your wagon, other than that they were on it?

[DemonHybrid]

Except you realised that it wasn't once you read the follow-up post. My point is that the original post wasn't ambiguous either. And using ambiguity to attack me is a bit bullshitty.

But I'm not. I recanted that. I've said this like 50 times. I'm not using ambiguity to attack you; in fact, at the time, I was attacking your playstyle and Amrun was the one that brought up your scum daytalk; that conversation was a supplement

Once you looked at my explanation, you pointed out that it wasn't enough either. However, realistically, you brought up a point for which no explanation would have meant 'me = town'. I was damned if I was talking about scum, I was damned if I was talking about town, and I was damned if I was being ambiguous.

I read it. It's a valid point because otherwise, you've been playing very scummily and it fits. But if you're going to VOTE me because I'm attacking you over the ambiguity of it (and STILL argue it even though I'm no longer attacking you because it's "ambiguous", as evidenced by the point above), you obviously are just reaching for reasons to vote for me after 3 people were on my wagon.

The rest of your post is you just screaming at me incoherently, so I'll consider myself a winner of the argument at the moment.

Basically, my whole point is this:

1. You active lurk, don't have good reasons for your cases, give spaced out wall posts and you don't really scumhunt that much. On top of that, you had weird interactions with DGB and mith, who I also suspect.
2. Because of ALL of the above, your "scum daytalk" bullshit is

meaningless

. It could mean either town being derpy or scum being told what to do, since we have really competent players in this game.
3. You're voting me because I "attacked" you for your scum daytalk schpiel, when it's really something Amrun brought up. I'm voting you because of 1.

And you continue to ignore talking about your play and focus on the scum daytalk stuff.

So, yes, I fucking read. And I've come to the conclusion that you read, too, but you just like to avoid stuff.

[DemonHybrid]

Here's what I think about his play: "ChrisB: I read him as town consistently yesterday... In light of the flip, the vote for Llamarble over DGB looks bad (but that was my first instinct as well, so hard to blame him for it), and I'm a little wary of the "Should I hammer?" post." Chris B didn't post much day 1, but what he posted was cogent and thorough. I found little fault with him throughout day 1 apart from being on the wrong side of the DGB wagon. Day 2, he was on V/LA, and then his very first post was the scum-talk post; once I looked at the MD Team Mafia thread to see that there was nothing about day-talk in there, I have basically ruled him out as scum.

But you have nothing to say on the scummier parts of his play? You know, how his posting fits in more with active lurking? And how he avoided voting DGB? And for what, to "avoid looking like he's OMGUSing", as I believe it was explained (I may be wrong). And you realize that him starting the talk about scum daytalk on Day 2 fits in with the fact that scum have night talk, and he could have just made it up? I'm not saying that's the sole reason that he's scummy, but is it

possible

that scum could have told him what to say?

This is funny, given your own stalling at the end of day 1.

deflection

Why would he do this? If he were scum with DGB, and he's going to say he agrees with the lynch, why not just hammer? He's the only one off-wagon who expresses suspicion of DGB... and that somehow makes him scummy?

It's White Flag mafia. You were the one that created this setup, and I would imagine that you know how hard it is to lose a buddy and make things much harder when there's a chance DGB could talk her way out of it. I don't think ANY scum would have readily hammered, and especially someone like DGB.

Really? You're comparing an out-of-nowhere defense (of you, ironically) relying on scum having day-talk to scum having fakeclaims and using them?

Yep, because if you hadn't noticed, we thought that they DIDN'T have fakeclaims at first, which made it much more believable. And you avoided my simple point of "scum can lie", especially when told what to do.

And my point is that the existence of alternative possibilities does not negate the weight of the tell. Nothing is 100%

Funny, neither is him being town, yet you're treating him as confirmed town. I'm saying it's a null tell; it's not a town tell by any sense of the word.

Even if I accepted that these are scumtells (and the latter certainly is more a playstyle indicator than anything)

It certainly IS a scumtell. Scum regaining their bearings and posting with waves of cases instead of straight scumhunting shows careful planning put into it; those fake cases take time.

I don't think he's "active lurking" (which to me means "posting lots without actually saying anything of substance"; with Chris B, I see infrequent but content-filled posts), and I'm not seeing where you've made much of an argument for him "making up cases with weak basis".

If you agree that he's posting spaced out walls of posts, then he's active lurking. It means he's not readily scumhunting, applying pressure and really caring about who is scum.

Also, ask Sotty about how his cases lack substance. And his vote on me is just lulz-worthy.

Your case seems to focus more on "hey, let's ignore these things that point to Chris B being town, because he could be scum anyway" than anything.

Because the scumtells outweigh the town tells to me. I like how you're doing that with your suspects too, hypocrite. That's why you're still tunneling me and defending everyone who I even start to make a case about.