Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

Regfan · Post Post #759 (isolation #0) » Fri May 20, 2011 8:03 am

Hey everyone, some of you may have played with me before on the hydra that I play in Dulpicity, playing this game as a lone ranger though G my hydra partner is overbooked. I'm going to attempt to attack this game differently to others that I've played. Instead of stating a page by page anaylsis which I stoped doing after about 10 pages into it I decided to just read through the entire thread to gain a grasp of what's going on. I have an incredible amount of quite strong town-reads at the moment and few scum-reads which isn't a great sign.

Had this written last night.

Spoiler: Nachomamma8 - Survivor (Neutral)

Spoiler: GreyICE - Town

Spoiler: LlamaFluff - Leaning Scum

There are a few things that have made me second guess this read but overall it sticks, reading through the thread Glass was one of my strongest scum-reads, mostly due to the fact that allof his posts were fluff, he avoided stating his opinion whenever possible. I disagree strongly with Llama's catch up post, I'll go into it.

LlamaFluff wrote: You ALWAYS ALWAYS lynch non-town claims, very simple fact of the game. Survivor is no exception, as it is an inherantly anti-town role.

No, you don't. That's an awful policy. Lynching any 'third-party claims' means you're openely admitting that you prefer a lynch other than scum. If you believe that he's fake claiming and actually scum that's a different story however at the current moment he's no immeditate threat towards us and nor was he on day one therefore lynching him would give us NO new information as the flip would be openely known before it occured.

LlamaFluff wrote: Lucky for us there are a few really scummy reactions to that claim. Page three and I am already happy with a lynch of Nacho or Doom. I would put down some money on one of them is scum (exactly one, not two). AV is another great bet on scum (also not with Doom), AV has the added bonus of being scummy on other levels too, consider him my vote for early game.

So, lets get this right. There are "a few scummy reactions" to Nachos claim, one of them being Nacho? If you don't include Nacho then the only people you've stated had a scummy reaction to his claim would be Doom and AV with you openely stating that only one would be scum.

LLamafluff wrote: Side point #1 - My lifespan in this game will likely be tied directly to what alignment my neighbors are. When I flip it will be obvious.

This is what made me question my scum-read on this slot, I really don't know what to make of it.

LLamaFluff, can you explain this please. It reads as you soft-claiming a PR and stating that the people in your QTS have been made aware of what PR you are exactly, however the fact that you soft-claimed PR in the thread means that you dying would no longer indicate them being mafia. The soft-claim really does seem pointless.

LlamaFluff wrote: Scum by far are happier with Nacho-survivor living then town is, as if the game hits lylo, all scum claim and nacho wins with them. No matter what Nacho says, he will side with scum if it gets close to an endgame, which is why you always lynch the claimed survivor. Yes I know im not voting him, but there is one tiny thing.

You've stated that you have claimed survivor as scum before making it possible that Nacho is scum however you've never stated if you believe it to be the case or not, and this post just screams of fecensitting over it.

LlamaFluff wrote: Go read past games and look at who got lynched day one and what they claimed. Look at the porportion of scum who claimed VT and something else (especially in closed games).
Lynch JJ here, Quar is town.

This attempt to move the lynch is incedibly weak, I know LLama is capabale of much more and I know he himself has links to prove the effectiveness of the VT claim principal that I believe he would have posted if he was town, especially knowing of the impending deadline.

LLamaFluff wrote: Pack/Twisted/Krypt has at least one scum in it from that BS wagon on NS in the early game. More likely then not Pack/Twisted is where the scum is with the other one being town, since this exchange is not scum-scum.

LlamaFluff wrote: Almost sure its one of Pack/Twisted at this point.

I find it interesting that he doesn't mention the 'strong' town-read he has on Twisted in either of these posts, especially because it would lead towards him being quite confident in Packbat being scum. He attempts to cover it by stating:

LlamaFluff wrote: Im allowed to change reads when more information comes out.

Nowhere in here did he say what 'new information' was released that changed his mind.

Spoiler: AurorusVox - Leaning Town

Spoiler: Seacore - Leaning Town

Spoiler: Feysal - Leaning Scum

Spoiler: kryptinen -Town

In summary:

Town:

GreyICE, Kryptinen, AurorusVox, Seacore,

Powerrox93.

Neutral:

Nacho.

Null:

Packbat.

Scum:

LLamaFluff, Feysal.

There's currently 8 alive, I'm willing to bet two scum and a survivor making today mylo.
LLamaFluff and Feysal are scum, Nacho is survivor.

I'll refrain from voting, I want everyones thoughts on the possibily of no lynching today.

Regfan · Post Post #761 (isolation #1) » Fri May 20, 2011 8:10 am

Valid point.

Vote: LlamaFluff

Regfan · Post Post #764 (isolation #2) » Fri May 20, 2011 11:20 am

Grey, I think it's fair to assume that if Seacore is town that there was only one other scum on the lynch as I don't see all three scum throwing themselves on the same lynch, meaning since Seatel was scum only one of the other people on that wagon is scum. This means if Seacore is town, which I think he is there was one scum off this lynch without a doubt and they didn't attain an opportunity to hammer without confirming themselves.

The only people who weren't on the Seacore lynch at the time were:

A. Nacho: Still don't see him as anything other than a survivor.
B. Doom: I know I'm town
C. Llama: Was strongly pushing the Twisted lynch, him changing to Seacore or asking for a claim would be an instant scum confession by him.
D. Kryptinen: Interestingly enough unvoted Packbat when Seacore was put at L-1, but I still think krypt is town.

Regfan · Post Post #767 (isolation #3) » Fri May 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Unvote

I can't speak for anyone else, but I want Llama to fully claim, we've already had 3 town prs dead and a vig claim on top of that, I seriously am starting to doubt the inclusion of any/many more power-roles.

Regfan · Post Post #770 (isolation #4) » Fri May 20, 2011 6:20 pm

GreyICE, he's not scum unvote him.

Powerrox was telling me that she was having a conversation with Seacore over their suspects throughout the night, why the fuck would he discuss suspects with someone he was going to shoot?

Regfan · Post Post #772 (isolation #5) » Fri May 20, 2011 6:45 pm

Seacore wrote: The fact that I think I was the first person to call Set out. That right there is a good reason that I'm not scum.

The issue with this is although you called Set out you never pushed towards her thus why GI believes it was a poor attempt at bussing.

Regfan · Post Post #777 (isolation #6) » Fri May 20, 2011 9:05 pm

Why did I replace in.

Regfan · Post Post #780 (isolation #7) » Sat May 21, 2011 12:59 am

I'll deal with this in the morning, heading to bed. Hopefully by the time I wake up Nacho has spoken some sense into you.

Regfan · Post Post #787 (isolation #8) » Sat May 21, 2011 5:31 pm

AurorusVox wrote:
GreyICE wrote:So uh... why didn't someone hammer?

Sure, it'd be awfully scummy, but
no one even demanded he claim.
Instead he was left to sit at L-1 for a while, until we lynched Setael.

I think the bolded is one of the best points in this line of thinking - if Seacore was town, one of the scum could easily have declared a hammer intent to get a claim out of him. I remember Krypt saying he would hammer Seacore once the discussion had quietened down, but he never asked for a claim at all...combined with my scumread of Krypt, this seems to stick out.

I've stated this already, but this point is incredibly flawed. The only people who had opportunity to hammer were Nacho, Doom, Llama and Kryptin. LLama had no chance of asking for a claim

eight

days before deadline on someone that he stated minimal previous suspicion towards, Nacho has no motivation to quick-lynching anyone as it puts more focus towards him, Krypt had opportunity to ask for a hammer however doing so casts suspicion on him and I know I'm town. This effectively means that if Seacore is town there was absolutely no way that scum could ask for a claim or state intention to hammer making the point against him moot.

GreyICE -

Stop tunneling Seacore just because you find some of his play bad, take a good look at Twistedspoon and Llama and let us end this game.

Llama -

I still want you to fullyclaim.

AurorusVox -

Explain your thoughts on the Twistedspoon slot please.

Feysal -

When you state that you replaced into the Twistedspoon slot because your meta on him made you believe he was town did you mean:
1) You chose the Twistedspoon slot over the Doom because you believed Twisted was town.
2) You chose the Twistedspoon slot instead of replacing into an alternate game because you believed Twisted was town?

If your answer to the above was 2) then did you:
1) Read through the entire game before deciding to replace in or not
2) ISO Twisted to gain an idea of what allignment he was.

Again, if your answer was two, what posts do you believe in particular made you believe your slot was town and what exactly is the 'Twistedspoon town meta'?

Regfan · Post Post #789 (isolation #9) » Sat May 21, 2011 6:24 pm

This:

LlamaFluff wrote:

Jedo the Jedi (3) - Packbat
, Twistedspoon,
Setael

kryptinen (2) -
Jedo the Jedi
, Glass
Doombunny9 (1) -
Wickedestjr

Powerrox93 (6) - Nachomamma8, Seacore, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, kryptinen, Quaroath
Nachomamma8 (1) -
Powerrox93

Should be:

Jedo the Jedi (3) - Packbat

, Twistedspoon,

Setael

kryptinen (2) -

Jedo the Jedi

, Glass
Doombunny9 (1) -

Wickedestjr

Powerrox93 (6) -

Nachomamma8

, Seacore, AurorusVox, Doombunny9, kryptinen,

Quaroath

Nachomamma8 (1) -

Powerrox93

Regfan · Post Post #793 (isolation #10) » Sun May 22, 2011 2:50 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:@Reg - Not claiming, yet my role is 100% confirmable. Glass for whatever reason decided to claim it pregame, which I completely disagree with having done, but can see the justification for it. My quote on my lifespan likely being tied to the longevity of myself comes from what my role is, again quite obvious upon my death, but yes im not VT, and my role is formatted exactly as Powers was.

I have trouble believing that your role depends SOLELY on the allignment of your neighbours as that would mean that your fate would be sealed when the randomization of the neighbour placements occured. This leads me to believe that you believe your comment in relation to your duration in the game being affected by the allignment of your neighbour has to do with them vieweing you as a threat and shooting you - however the fact you openely claimed that your role isn't a VT means that there's motive for anyone to kill you either being your neighbour or not. So yes, I still want you to full-claim.

LlamaFluff wrote:Anyway, Ice is right that he is likely town given the insistance of Set to lynch JJ over Quar on the first day, especially since Set flipped goon, odds are little over 50-50 that all other scum are non-goon. Good rarely busses non-goon if possible, its simply bad play.

Agree with this 100%.

LlamaFluff wrote:Now, this means (by law of three) that one of Sea and TS are scum. As I already said, the defense of AV by Sea means Sea is likely town unless AV is scum, but three scum + vig + neutral? yeah right.

Mind explaining the law of three?

LlamaFluff wrote:The flip just paints Sea as prob-town to me, votecounts point away from TS as scum however, given how close the TS and Set votes fell most of the time.

Agree with Sea-town, don't agree with TS-town.

AV wrote: I read it as town. There are reasons for this but I will only share them if TS is in imminent danger of a lynchin'.

Considering I'm having trouble seeing both Llama and TS as town and LLamas recent posts have been slight-town tells I really want you to go into your town-tells on TS.

AV wrote: LF gains towncred if Glass' neighbours can confirm his role was claimed pregame.

Agree

Nacho - Reads on everyone right now would be appreciated.

Regfan · Post Post #801 (isolation #11) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:11 pm

LlamaFluff wrote: @Reg - I keep going back and forth on TS, and am trying to get to the bottom of something that really is bugging me here about it before I push hard on it, since I was pretty convinced of TS scum until that point where I said I needed to ask something and got a response.

If this is inthread I believe I've msised it. What response did you get from TS that made you doubt the read?

LlamaFluff wrote: Still not going to claim. I feel Glass handled my role completely wrong, although as I said I could see justification for doing so, and through his actions, me living longer point more at a nieghbor of mine being scum. The claim from power sort of offset this though, and wicked was a fairly obvious N1 kill. I do consider it a very minor tell for Sea and Nacho that I am alive though.

What I fail to understand is this: You state, I'm a PR if I die it's likely one of my neighbours is mafia. By stating that you're a PR openely you give motive for anyone to kill you, meaning the point of you claiming is nullified and the fact that you're stating that if you die one of your neighbours is likely scum is incorrect.

I think it's fair to assume that GreyICE dies tonight due to the strength a vig has in such a setup meaning I don't see how you claiming increases the chances you die at all. It just helps us deal with today as well as self-clearing yourself if it is 100% confirmable.

Regfan · Post Post #804 (isolation #12) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:28 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:It was in the middle of the day? How would I get a response from TS? I got a response that made TS sound like a not good lynch though. Still kinda thinking I was messed with, but will get to the bottom of that as soon as I can.

I'll have a look for it later.

LlamaFluff wrote: Scum would be idiots to kill GI for various reasons. Im not near lynch, my role condems or clears no one, and my role shouldnt effect how any other players should act since its neighbor specific.

I believe you stated your role is 100% confirmable? Your role does effect how players act becuase it has a massive impact on my read on you.

Regfan · Post Post #806 (isolation #13) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:34 pm

Seacore wrote:His role is confirmable, but it does not confirm his alignment.
There is no doubt (none, zip, zilch) that he has the role he's claiming. But it could belong to town or scum.

Fair enough. Makes sense now.

Regfan · Post Post #812 (isolation #14) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:11 am

The last thing this game needs is lack of activity. What's everyones thoughts on a potential mass-claim given the fact that apparently two people claimed pre-game?

Feysal, how much through the thread are you?

Regfan · Post Post #815 (isolation #15) » Mon May 23, 2011 12:17 pm

Storm of Swords was different, town lost because Benmage was a moron and governed obvious scum.

If Nacho is indeed a town-pr like you seem to believe then there's 3 dead prs and 4 alive pr claims, fairly sure that would clear all VT claims which is a good thing lol.

Regfan · Post Post #824 (isolation #16) » Mon May 23, 2011 2:45 pm

LlamaFluff wrote: Infact him breadcrumbing what I thought was vig very hard during day one is the only reason I didnt vote him and went with AV.

Link me to the posts in which you believed Doom soft-claimed.

LlamaFluff wrote:1) Ignore Set
2) Vote set with no reason
3) Backoff quickly to go back to rereading Set/Sea
4) Jump to TS while still attacking Set/Sea playstyle
5) Threat to hammer Sea, Set slips to third suspect for unknown reasons. This is especially bad given the exchanges that Doom had been having with Set to me.
6) Is happy with a Set or Sea lynch, calls for TS vig

1) Isn't true at all, ISO #32, URL #33 ISO #34, ISO #35, ISO #58, ISO #59, ISO #62, ISO #63, ISO #66, ISO #74 and ISO #77 are all directed to Set.
2) The vote is ISO #57 where he votes her in a period where Sea is at L-2. Explain what scummotivtion there is in doing so.
3) The unsureness that Doom had between Sea/Set was shared by the entire room, everyone was going back from one to the other, so exactly in what way is that a scum-tell?
4) Doom shared my suspicion of TS I believe, in what way is attacking an alternate FoS while being unsure over Set/Sea a scumtell?
5) I can't answer thiis, one I have no idea why Doom threatened to hammer Sea because I read Sea as town.
6) Again, everyone believed a Sea/Set lynch was good, in what way is this relevant only to Doom? Again, what way is asking for your FoS to be vigged a scum-tell?

LlamaFluff wrote: Reg really hasnt done much since his opening post, since then its been trying to get a claim out of me, apart from that, its just been calling Sea town.

1. This isn't true at all you only have to read my posts to know that - On top of that you haven't responded to ANY of the questions or suspicions I had for you in my opening post.
2. This isn't a scum-tell, if it was you'd be voting Feysal.

Your entire case is horseshit, and I still believe you should claim in your next post. If everyone wants to mass-claim we'll start with me and can popcorn claim from there.

Regfan · Post Post #827 (isolation #17) » Mon May 23, 2011 10:32 pm

Feysal thanks for responding, I'll wait before you post the rest of your analysis to comment on it.

AurorusVox wrote: This echoes my own feelings on DB. I was discussing this with Grey last night, and I said that DB having Set as third place yet somehow still coming through to vote for Set instead of Seacore (just as the tides were turning) looked like a bus when he realised Seacore wans't getting lynched.

If you're going to make a comment such as this I would appreciate if you could comment on the fact that I pointed out the entirety of Llama's post was crap.

AurorusVox wrote: Why are you so desperate for LF to claim? There's no need for him to claim, unless someone is waiting to hammer. Besides, Seacore has already said that his claim doesn't prove his alignment, so outing the role won't help you assess LF either way. It will just tell the scum what role he has.

I believe the reason is incredibly obvious and is also the reason why I'm currently attempting to push a mass-claim. Both of my major suspects have apparently claimed PRs in the pre-game therefore I would like to attain more information in respect to their claims to be able to properly judge them. Considering the fact I have town-reads on close to everyone else if there's a time that I want to know I have to rethink and reanalyse the game it's now.

Regfan · Post Post #830 (isolation #18) » Mon May 23, 2011 10:55 pm

AV wrote: - DB has Seacore as a higher suspect than Setael.
- Setael wagon gains more momentum.
- DB votes Setael despite having TWO other people ahead of him in terms of scumminess

That looks like bussing after people leave the Seacore wagon alone.

Again, I can't defend his particular action because I don't understand what thought process he had going at the current time. Though I would like for you to explain in what way reducing the number or votes on the wagon gaining momentum at the point where it needed it most to vote elsewhere is a scum-tell.

AV wrote: But I'm not sure how LF's specifically will help considering it's already been said that it doesn't confirm his alignment. If anything, Feysal is the one you should be pushing to claim since that has more of an impact on his alignment than anything...

1) Someone else stating that they don't believe Llama's role will lead to much discovery about his allignment doesn't mean that it's true. Considering the large amount of breadcrumbing and soft-claiming that's been done I would like an opportunity to judge his claim for myself.

2) I want him to complete his read through of the thread first becuase I believe I'll be able to attain a more solid read of him through that, if I still have a scum-read when he's completed I would willingly ask him to claim.

Regfan · Post Post #832 (isolation #19) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:19 pm

AurorusVox wrote:The Seacore wagon was
losing
momentum in favour of the Setael wagon when Doom voted.

So if anything shouldn't that prove that this slot is town?

Regfan · Post Post #834 (isolation #20) » Mon May 23, 2011 11:41 pm

I think it's fair to assume that bussing is generally unoptimal play unless said player attains town-cred from doing so.

1. If you believe Doom bussed to attain town-cred what reasoning would he have for not pushing the Set lynch stronger?
2. What reasoning would he have for replacing out after 'bussing' for town-cred?

The answer to the above two questions is none. He had three leading suspects, this was incredibly clear and I'm sure you can agree upon such. The fact he changed his vote from one of them to another is incredibly simple to understand and the fact that Llama is attempting to push that as a scum-tell is bizarre.

Regfan · Post Post #837 (isolation #21) » Tue May 24, 2011 12:50 am

This is my post for ISO purposes, I promise I won't post on the wrong account again:

Duplicity wrote:
AurorusVox wrote:1. A reasonable answer is that he had hoped that the Seacore wagon would take off. I'm surprised this hasn't occurred to you. My qualm with this line of thinking was that I wasn't sold on Seacore town (which my argument kinda requires). But Nacho has made a convincing case for Seacore town, and so I'm willing to table Seacore as scum for now.
2. I don't treat replacing out as an alignment tell at all. Scum and town can become equally busy. Besides, any town cred he gained would remain attached to the slot; it doesn't leave with him. This point sure does look like padding with which you're trying to undermine my argument, maybe deflecting onto the replacement out in the hope of misdirecting my case. What relevance do you think the replace out really has?

1. So how does his vote differentiate from anyone else on either of the wagons then.

2. As much as a player plays for his allignment to win he also has wants to win himself therefore even if his real life issues were overwhelming if you believe he planned on bussing to attain town-cred wouldn't his thought process have been he could slide through today ie. His activity need-not be incredibly high removing the need for him to replace out? I have no need to add 'padding' to prove how the entire argument Llama and you are putting forward is wrong, I've gone into it already you've just got yourself stuck in a form of confirmation bias.

Regfan · Post Post #843 (isolation #22) » Tue May 24, 2011 7:21 pm

LlamaFluff wrote: Right there is the only reason I pushed AV over him.

Stating that someone can be vigged isn't a soft-claim for vig.

LlamaFluff wrote: You proved my point. Except for a little arguement (33-35) Doom ignored Set until point 2.

I refuse to believe that you're actually this stupid, apart from her interactions with Nacho and Seacore she interacted with this slot the most, you continously attempting to push the fact that there was a lack of conversation or activity between Setael and Doom is as previously said, stupid.

LlamaFluff wrote: Probably fear of putting Sea at L-1 at that point in the game, this may be due to me saying just before that I could see a Set-Sea-AV trio as well. He did immediately go back to saying Set and Sea are both scummy of the exact same reasons though.

So your entire basis of your case comes down to you believing that Doom voted Set out of 'fear', seriously this is getting worse and worse.

LlamaFluff wrote: Not the ENTIRE room. There were a couple people squarely in either camp. Note that doom basically ignored my defense of Sea as well the entire time. He also was only on Set for about 8 hours, and in that time, Set managed to look worse if anything. That was not a strong lynching vote, I see it more of a distancing vote.

Perhaps the entire room was an exaggeration but there was an extreme number of people unsure between Seacore and Set including yourself, so I fail to see how you attempt to link that as a scum-tell.

LlamaFluff wrote: Vote, not FoS. Also this was RIGHT after he explicitly implied that Set/Sea were his top reads. It comes out of absolutely nowhere, and some of the attacks on him are wierd. He pressures TS for saying Sea is scum and for calling Set town (while Doom voted him about 24 hours ago). That makes no sense to me, and reads of scum trying to instead set TS up for when either or both of those two flip for having taken the wrong stances on them. You can for a second say that you dont pay attention to who has taken the wrong stances on people as scum to use that later. Doom just jumped the gun here.

You're continuing to push an extreme angle here, you're refusing to step back for a second and think about the fact that Doom stated uneasiness between Set/Sea meaning it's entirely understandable to vote for your next FoS in line.

LlamaFluff wrote: I can. Doom is scum. Again, this contradicts his attack on TS for calling Sea scum just a little bit ago. Everything feels out of place and like he is scrambling to figure out what the right move is.

This is you just attempting to jump on the one that I can't understand - The fact that he FoS'ed Sea which GreyICE also hapened to, meaning do you believe that FoS'sing Seacore is a scum-tell, yes or no?

LlamaFluff wrote: For your points here... you really are mostly concentrating on my claim after your catchup post. You defend Sea a bit, but a majority of your posts are spent doing that and trying to get me to claim.

This is complete and utter bullshit, you know it, I know it heck the old lady across the street knows it. For one I've been in this game a few days, stated my town and scum reads as well as reasoning behind them, stated where I want to dissect information from as well as defending my town-reads. What more would you expect from a replacement?

LlamaFluff wrote: Its Doom+Krypt I think, it works on interactions, vote counts, everything.

If you asked me last night I would have agreed with you on Krypt, I believed I'd spotted a scum-slip on him and was going to replace out due to the unfariness in it, it being that my QT with Krypt had an excessive number of unique views, 7 to be exact and I believed that the number was so high because she had given it to her scum-partners however LMP confirmed that scum-partners cannot give their QT out. However re-reading through the thread I fail to see any realistic way that Krpyt can be scum, especially due to her attitude in the QT last night.

@Everyone

, do you think there's a possibility mafia could be limited to killing someone they're next to?

Regfan · Post Post #844 (isolation #23) » Tue May 24, 2011 11:50 pm

Been pondering over the fact that TS claimed a PR pre-game, I have great difficulty believing that TS replaced out of a game where he was a town-pr and we had just lynched a mafia. His replacing out has nothing to do with real-life taking it's toll because he's still playing in multiple, multiple other games.

Regfan · Post Post #846 (isolation #24) » Wed May 25, 2011 2:30 am

AurorusVox wrote:But if
you
think its true, that means that last night's kill could have
only
come from you or Seacore; if you read Seacore as town, then why are you even considering this as a possibility?

I never stated I believe it's true however considering the fact I've never played in a setup such as this before and GI stated he has I'm intersted in hearing other peoples thoughts on the matter.

AV wrote:
This could have had something to do with it:

Seacore wrote:If you are town please ask to be replaced by someone who will read and try to play. You are doing neither.

It looks like you've realised that pushing the easy mislynch isn't going to be so easy, and so you've turn to smearing his replacement out...despite the fact that it was
requested
by a player that you read as town.

I've played with Twisted in several games as well as observed others of his, people have asked him to replace out several times, he never has so yes I do find the fact he replaced out suspicious, you find it scummy to bring that up?

AV wrote: All in all, I'm fairly confident that these two players are scumbuddies based on their interactions with one another.

If the people on the Reg wagon won't join me in voting Krypt, then I'll gladly

Unvote; Vote: Regfan
(L-2 I think)

Can you be any more fucking stupid? Seriously? Why the fuck would I be asking the mod if mafia share QTs if I was mafia with Krypt, heck why would I at all as mafia?

I'll respond to the rest of this in the morning when I'm fully awake and not pissed the fuck off.

Regfan · Post Post #849 (isolation #25) » Wed May 25, 2011 3:06 am

GreyICE wrote: If you truly believe that the mafia can only kill neighbors, that means you MUST vote for Vox. Me and Vox were Wicked's only neighbors, and I'm confirmed town.

I don't truly believe it's the case but again as I stated I want people who are experienced with its thoughts.

AV wrote: Do you believe it's true or do you believe it's false? If false, then why bring it up? If true, then try to pretend you don't?

Read above. Given how all town-powers roles seem to work only on their neighbours I was just curious if it could be similar with the scum or not.

AV wrote: Are those on-going games or have they finished? If they're finished, what was his alignment? The fact that he's denied requests in other games is definitely noteworthy, so no, I don't find it as scummy now that you've said that. I don't agree with your assessment but I can see the value in bringing it up.

I believe there's one or two that are completed, I'll find them tommorow.

AV wrote: But we only have your word for that, don't we? And even if you DID ask, maybe there were seven unique views and you were worried that one of the town might have a PR related to spying on QTs. Sorry but I'm not going to just blindly believe everything you say.

Think for a second, why would I make something like that up.

AV wrote: Is this sort of language meant to scare me off your lynch? :\

Apologies for the language, I've just had an awful day.

Regfan · Post Post #854 (isolation #26) » Thu May 26, 2011 12:24 am

Sorry I didn't manage to get to this today, I've been pressured into spending my time on [Redacted], I'll focus on this first thing tommorow.

Regfan · Post Post #860 (isolation #27) » Thu May 26, 2011 9:11 pm

AV wrote: 1.ISO #11 - poking NS about his Doom vote.
2. ISO #12 - echoes Doom's question to Jedo
3. ISO #13 - again mentions that NS had no reason for his Doom vote.
4. ISO #16 - mentions possible scum motivation behind Doom's actions - kinda out of nowhere. Potential distancing as she doesn't follow up and flat out call DB scummy.
5. ISO #36 (1/2) - attacks DB completely out of nowhere. Literally no mention of him as an actual scumread before this post, in which she calls him "(scum disappointed in a failed mislynch?"). Note that she's still leaving a way out with the question mark.
6.ISO #36 (2/2) - despite calling DB scum she now echoes his question for the second time.
7.ISO #40 - now believes that scum are direction the attention onto DB, which assumes DB is town.

1. I don't understand what you're attempting to gain from this, kryptinen is asking NS his reasoning behind an unexplained vote. Is x asking y about his vote on z likely to lead towards x or z being mafia, no.
2. In what way is echoing someone elses question allignment indicavtive? What are you even attempting to bring up here.
3. Same as 1.
4. You've pulled this out of context, krpyt was responding to Wickeds remarks.
5. She doesn't attack Doom, she states that tunnelling is anti-town, there's a massive difference. Nice misrep though.
6. Just because you believe someones actions are anti-town doesn't mean you can't agree with them on such a basic question such as the one in this scenario, it being who did Sea prefer to have lynched.
7. Again unsure what you're attempting to state here.

I could continue to go through all of your examples but there really is no point, you're attempting create linkages where linkages aren't and then forcing them by quoting every time Doom mentioned Krypt regardless of the context.

AV wrote: And now we have Regfan who is calling Krypt town based in part on their QT - which we, of course, can't see - and also admits that he can't really put his read into words beyond calling it obvTown. Sorry but I haven't read it as obvTown at all. The one solid point he gives is Krypt's frustration, which I don't really understand as a towntell...

The main basis for my town-read is the conversation the QT however her attitude there and here are VERY different, she stated an entire reads list last night however coming into today she hasn't attempted to state her thoughts once.

LlamaFluff wrote: Grey - You are missing the fact that the really bad Quar wagon was mostly formed by a mysterious falling apart of the JJ wagon, followed by most people refusing to acknowledge what has been at L-2 when I pushed hard for that, which on its own is pretty indicative of a scum wagon.

The Quaroth wagon wasn't "Bad", you yourself were on it until he dropped the 'VT' tell, something that other players don't exactly use, had he not dropped that your vote would have stayed on him therefore I'm finding it difficult to believe that you've suddenly insisted that the wagon was highly scum-motivated when to be perfectly honest I can see scum being elsewhere.

Considering the fact that deadline is in one week roughly this thread really needs some serious activity and direction. GI, do you still believe it's optimal to mass-claim?

Regfan · Post Post #864 (isolation #28) » Sat May 28, 2011 11:07 pm

AV wrote: It's about a sense of interest. Above he was defending your slot; here he's trying to show how your slot is acting pro-town by reinforcing the questions he's asking. He could have just asked the question himself; instead he made sure to mention DB when asking it. It gives me partner-vibes.

Partners generally attempt to avoid agreeing with their partners questions by rehashing it themselves not say answer x's question so I'm not exactly sure what angle you're attempting to push here.

AV wrote: Before she was saying that Doom was scum. Yes, there was a question mark there, but the thought of DB scum was still predominantly in his mind in the above post. And here, she's saying scum are directing attention onto DB, which has to assume DB as town. The two ideas don't add up.

She stated uncertaintly about his actions, she never stated she believed he was scum, you've pulled the entire posts out of context.

AV wrote: I explicitly made sure to quote every time Krypt mentioned Doom. That was my point. The above is every mention he makes of you. Hardly much there.

Exactly. You've gone into it thinking I believe X and Y are partners therefore I will misrep everything they state about the other one to paint them as partners rather than go back and attempt to make an objective decision.

AV wrote:What do you make of this differing attitude then? Seeing as Krypt isn't sharing her read list, maybe you can share them with us?

I'm unsure what to make of it exactly, I certaintly want more activity from her but sure I'll share her reads: ICE - Town. Pack - Scummy, wants to look more into. Power - Town. Seacore - Null. LlamaFluff - Scummy, wants to look more into. Twistedspoon - Main suspect, mentions post #185. AV - Null. Nacho - Fine.

Feysal wrote: This sounds all wrong. kryptinen had said that Seacore flipping town would condemn Setael, while a Seacore scum flip would make Setael null. Seacore, if he were town, should be perfectly satisfied with this, he has been pushing Setael that hard. Why is he suddenly suggesting they could both be town?

See, this is where I disagree, at this point the lynch almost guarenteed between Setael and Seacore meaning scum-Seacore would know that bussing is needed therefore wouldn't question why one of them must be scum however town Seacore would be paranoid that his read is wrong and that if she flips town he would be pushed soley due to "One of them must be scum".

Ugh. Feysal's replace-in post was actually fairly spot on. I need to do some re-reading because I have a town-read wrong somewhere and I continue to doubt that it's Seacore, I want to take a better look at Krypt and AV.Close to five days until the deadline, the lack of activity is really looking like mafia are happy to stand back and allow myself or Krypt to be lynched.

GreyICE, in your next post you need to say if we're mass-claiming or not, and if we are create an order to do so.

Regfan · Post Post #866 (isolation #29) » Sun May 29, 2011 6:35 pm

Seacore, if memory serves me correct his role had no indication on his allignment so how does his role link himself to you?

Regfan · Post Post #868 (isolation #30) » Sun May 29, 2011 7:12 pm

So you are certain that his role is town-alligned rather than him having the exact role on the scum-team. Am I correct?

Regfan · Post Post #873 (isolation #31) » Sun May 29, 2011 7:54 pm

Seacore wrote:Vote for me for it if you wish. Claiming is a bad idea. We can do it tomorrow. Storm of Swords shows how an early mass claim can destroy town.

Storm of Swords is a shit as hell example, already mentioned that. The only reason town lost was because Benmage governed obvscum, we do need to mass-claim otherwise we're going to have no idea what's going on.

Regfan · Post Post #875 (isolation #32) » Sun May 29, 2011 9:40 pm

Mass-claiming is an underutilized asset that town has in a game and is often avoided due to players being stuck believing that claims in the open are baad, when there are less side effects to it than they think. To properly evaluate if mass-claim is benefical or optimal the following need to be addressed;

1. The likelihood that mass-claim will lead towards stronger reads a as players play can be understand better by knowing their role claim, viewing the context of their role claim and comparing role-claims.

In this case: There has been three power-role claims stated already told therefore it's a fact that everyones reads will improve if we begin claiming roles.

2. The amount of direction, drive and activity a town current has, with massive amounts of direction mass-claim isn't needed.

In this case: There currently is a severe lack of direction and minimal activity even though deadline is looming.

3. The amount of power-roles likely left in the setup and the type of information they're likely to hold.

In this case: There's undoubtably multiple power-roles left, all of which have claimed to neighbours already thus there's a massive chance that scum already have said information.

LlamaFluff wrote: I just apathied out of this game a little and need to get back into it, since there is ONE thing from Reg that keeps making me doubt my read a little.

I have a feeling I know what it is, it's not entirely based around my play

this

game is it?

Regfan · Post Post #881 (isolation #33) » Tue May 31, 2011 2:36 am

AurorusVox wrote:What's the benefit of massclaiming today over tomorrow? Basically it seems to revolve around Llama's role. If there are five people who want to know Llama's role, then fine, wagon him and get his claim. Pestering around asking for it just seems like a short cut to that end, because Regfan can't get the full support for it.

It's actually the exact opposite, I don't want to wagon him up to have him claim something that I actually believe because that would lead to a lot of wasted time plus the risk he actually gets lynched.

AurorusVox wrote:@Reg - maybe I've gone into the ISO
looking
for connections and found some that might not be there entirely. But you can't deny the fact that Krypt barely engaged with Doom, and Doom was similarly "distant" from Krypt (most of it revolved around asking Doom about Krypt, not Doom mentioning things explicitly himself). I think there's enough there to sell me on the connection through the general tone of all the posts, even if "not all" contribute directly to a potential connection.

I'm still failing to see what you were hoping to gain from looking through ISO's in light of connections with no flip. The entire reasoning you seem to suspect me is that Krypt spoke less directly to me than others when that means your entire basis of your vote relies soley on her allignment something you've failed to go into. Apart from her inability to post today due to computer troubles, can you summarize the reasons you suspect her?

Nacho, we need more content from you.

Regfan · Post Post #883 (isolation #34) » Tue May 31, 2011 3:55 am

AurorusVox wrote:Why do you call it a "risk" that he'll get lynched when you think he's scum? Shouldn't his lynch be a good outcome fypov?

I think it's fairly obvious that I am by no means certain of my scum-reads otherwise I would have placed a vote and been pushing the lynch, I clearly stated the risk of him getting lynched is if I believe his claim when it occurs.

AurorusVox wrote: I've been suspicious of Krypt since D1. I had a post that explained my case on her at length already. Plus today when she could post, she offered very little content, and this lack of firm reads - especially given that she supposedly has a solid enough scumlist to share in her QTs - looks to me that she's trying to fly under the radar and not comment on anything at all.

Are you honestly attempting to say that you believe Krypt is faking or overexaggerating her VLA issues?

Regfan · Post Post #886 (isolation #35) » Tue May 31, 2011 4:06 am

Mine, I shouldn't be posting late at night:

Skyquiem wrote:
AurorusVox wrote:But the immense downside that you're completely ignoring is that him claiming outs his role to scum who might right now NOT know what his role is. If you want to know it, it should be because you think he's scum and needs to be lynched. If you think he's town you don't need to know it. If you're not sure, as it seems you're suggesting, then judge from what he's posted, not some claim that Seacore has been pretty explicit about how it doesn't confirm alignment either way.

There's a massive difference between a claim not confirming allignment and a claim producing readable information. I believe his claim would allow me to get a much more solid read on him then I currently do, therefore I believe it's optimal for him to claim. What about that is difficult to understand?

AurorusVox wrote:I'm pretty clearly judging her posts that she made prior to her V/LA.

Such as this post which was made on her sisters computer? I think it's fair to say the fact that her computer died is something serious enough for her not to lie about and something that would greatly hinder the amount of content she could produce.

Regfan · Post Post #893 (isolation #36) » Tue May 31, 2011 9:11 pm

AurorusVox wrote:And yes I understand what you're saying is your aim, but unless there are four other people who want to see LF lynched today, it won't matter much what your read on him is, will it? And the end result is that scum get more info.

You're continuing to miss the point, both of my intial and current FoS's are unclaimed PR's therefore I do need to attain more information in order to work out how to best proceed.

Regfan · Post Post #900 (isolation #37) » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 am

LlamaFluff wrote:Ok, so your arguement is essentially that there is a neutral survivor and THREE scum? Get out of here. Its Three scum OR two and survivor. Especially when all town roles are nerfed by only being able to target neighbors, you know better then to think that.

Reexplain please. This quote makes it sound like you believe there's only one mafia left however throughout the whole day you've been pushing that there are two.

Regfan · Post Post #906 (isolation #38) » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:44 pm

kryptinen wrote:
Regfan

Why are you so focused on getting people's roles? I get the feeling he's trying to prolong telling his opinions on others and steering discussion away from the lynch.

Had you read the thread you would have noticed that both my leading FoS's have softclaimed pr's therefore it's needed to find out their claims before proceeding.

Regfan · Post Post #920 (isolation #39) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:43 pm

Llama slipped, gg.

Let me find it.

Regfan · Post Post #923 (isolation #40) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:47 pm

He puts foward a case on me, I tear it up he brings up this gem:
[quote="LlamaFluff"Its Doom+Krypt I think, it works on interactions, vote counts, everything. [/Quote]
Read contradicts with these two posts:

LlamaFluff wrote: Ok, so your arguement is essentially that there is a neutral survivor and THREE scum? Get out of here. Its Three scum OR two and survivor. Especially when all town roles are nerfed by only being able to target neighbors, you know better then to think that.

LlamaFluff wrote:
NO HE DOESNT

Look, there is NO such thing as a three scum + survivor setup in a mini. Especially given that the town roles are exceedingly nerfed. Either nacho is screwing with us, or there are two scum total. No other option

Vote: LlamaFluff

Regfan · Post Post #924 (isolation #41) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:48 pm

Quote tags are broken, he attempts to put forward and PUSH a case of the scum are Krpy+Doom due to interactions then screams that there's only 1 scum left.

Regfan · Post Post #925 (isolation #42) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:58 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:Assuming standard 3 scum, I would put a big bet against that being an all town wagon.

LlamaFluff wrote:Im thinking one of Krypt/AV and one of Doom/TS at this point more likely then not.

LlamaFluff wrote:Krypt and Regfan, that will do it.

LlamaFluff wrote:Ok, so your arguement is essentially that there is a neutral survivor and THREE scum? Get out of here. Its Three scum OR two and survivor. Especially when all town roles are nerfed by only being able to target neighbors, you know better then to think that.

LlamaFluff wrote:Look, there is NO such thing as a three scum + survivor setup in a mini. Especially given that the town roles are exceedingly nerfed. Either nacho is screwing with us, or there are two scum total. No other option.

#1: Implies 3 scum + Nacho or Nacho is scum which he said he doesn't believe is the case.
#2: Openely states he's looking for 2 scum
#3: States there's 2 scum.
#4: "Get out of here" to a suggestion of 3 scum
#5: "NO such thing" as 3 scum.

Regfan · Post Post #929 (isolation #43) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:15 pm

I know what possibilty both of you are pondering and thought about it earlier myself however some of his recent post really ruled out that possibilty in my mind.

Regfan · Post Post #932 (isolation #44) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:49 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:@Reg - It works. I know quite a bit about whats going on behind the scenes in this game, information all up and down this game. Two scum remaining can easily work here, and I will continue to believe that unless otherwise proven.

Two scum remaining + Survivor is something you said can NOT be the case. Essentially you're saying that Nacho isn't survivor which differs from your previous opinion on him being instant lynched.

Regfan · Post Post #935 (isolation #45) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:42 pm

Sigh. I don't see either of your neighbours being scum.

Unvote

I need to think about this.

Regfan · Post Post #945 (isolation #46) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:13 am

LlamaFluff wrote:Right move there is also tacking a "vote AV" onto that since deadline is in about 24 hours.

I strongly dislike the AV lynch, I still have a solid-town read on him and don't plan on moving my vote to him regardless of the deadline, on the other hands I'm becoming more comfortable with the proposition of a Krypt lynch given how her VLA is over yet she still continues to avoid this thread.

GI - What's the Calcifer treatment?
AV - Are you attempting to say you already have knowledge of Krypts role?

I'll be online most of the 10 hours leading up to the deadline, I'd request everyone else make an effort to be online at that time as well.

Regfan · Post Post #949 (isolation #47) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:55 am

In other words, you're claiming she's not a VT. Lllama is saying he knows 'extra information about Nacho'. Llama is claiming a PR. Feysal is claiming a PR. GreyICE is claiming a PR. Krypt is apparently a PR.

So that's 5 PR claims alive, and 3 dead. Does anyone else not see how we should have been mass-claiming ages ago?

Regfan · Post Post #951 (isolation #48) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:16 am

Things I'm positive on:

GreyICE, Seacore and AV are town.

Things I'm less positive on:

Nacho is survivor, not scum and Feysal is town.

That leaves LlamaFluff And Krypt both who have claimed/are proven to be some form of power-role.

GreyICE, what's your thoughts on a Llama/Krypt scum-team?

Vote: Kryptinen.

Regfan · Post Post #955 (isolation #49) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:27 am

GreyICE wrote:Like... 0.5%... maybe.

Explain?

In the QT Kryptinen stated that she hasn't paid much attention to him but should start now and instead of doing so places her vote on me without questioning him once. On the other side of the scale Llama pushes a Me/Krpt scum-team, votes me and then moves to AV the second the wagon presents itself.

Regfan · Post Post #957 (isolation #50) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:38 am

GreyICE wrote:1) If Llamafluff was scum, he'd know that someone on the scumteam needs to claim VT in order to avoid the 'pseudo-confirmed VT' syndrome that's cropping up. 4:4 PR:VT with weak roles would NOT leave me this unwilling to lynch a VT. The setup is now becoming extraordinarily confusing. If he's partners, he's only partners with Vox, as the 'one VT, one PR' works there.

He has no choice in the matter becuase of two things:

1) Glass claimed PR pre-game he can't remove that PR claim therefore he's locked in.
2) Krypt hasn't claimed PR, just been proven one by Vox something that is probably unpreventable

GreyICE wrote:2) Read Llama's early game interactions with Krypt. VERY natural.

Will do.

Regfan · Post Post #970 (isolation #51) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:40 pm

Unvote

I'll likely be here from now until deadline and don't want a blitz to occur in that time. LF, does your role contradict or counter-claim Krypts? Krypt, how come you made no mention of this to me at any point?

LlamaFluff wrote: @Reg - Same to you and Set.

With Powerrox he asked me for my reads and if I was having issues viewing quicktopics, I posted my entire summary and asked him to post my reads if I get shot. With Krypt I posted my entire summary, he stated it was a lot of text and followed up briefly writing 1-2 lines about each player, the tldr of it is: ICE - Town. Pack - Scummy, wants to look more into. Power - Town. Seacore - Null. LlamaFluff - Scummy, wants to look more into. Twistedspoon - Main suspect, mentions post #185. AV - Null. Nacho - Fine.

Regfan · Post Post #971 (isolation #52) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:13 pm

Seven hours to the deadline and this game is lacking activity enough though I've seen multiple players in this game online in the last few hours.

Regfan · Post Post #973 (isolation #53) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:17 pm

AurorusVox wrote:I was also surprised when she didn't neighbour me n1 as she implied she'd be revisiting me. I guess that she didn't want to answer any more questions. But now that she's said she visited PR, I can see scum motivation all over - to find out who he would be watching so that the scum could avoid getting caught.

I STRONGLY disagree with this point, considering Powers neighbours were Seacore and myself and he had to watch his neighbour scum have no need to worry about shooting to "avoid getting caught" as they can just shoot someone that's not her neighbour. I do however want to know Krypts reasoning for neighbouring Powerrox becuase I'm having trouble finding town or scum motivation for doing so.

Regfan · Post Post #976 (isolation #54) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:23 pm

My post:

Skyquiem wrote:
Seacore wrote:The claim has made me more confident, I'll esplain tomorrow.

Mind explaining now?

Regfan · Post Post #978 (isolation #55) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:05 pm

Feysal wrote:Remember that Powerrox did not claim he was limited to watching his neighbors until day two. On the preceding night one, the scum would have had motive to make sure they did not kill whoever the watcher was targeting.

Valid point. Though:

1. What's the scum incentive to QT her N2 after she had claimed that she could only watch neighbours?
2. What's the scum incentive to QT someone you're killing?

Feysal wrote: Why would it matter who Powerrox's neighbors were anyway? I don't see what they have to do with your argument. If you and Seacore are town like you profess to believe, and you think the scum would have motive to kill you, then that would be an argument in favor of making sure Powerrox was not watching whoever the scum wanted to kill.

There were many more 'obv-town' players than myself and Seacore therefore them being unable to safely kill us isn't that large a set-back for them as they still would be able to kill multiple players. My argument is simple, if Krypt is scum you're saying that she would be willing to QT Powerrox for information so that scum don't shoot someone she's watching, when they weren't aiming towards anyone she was watching to begin with.

Regfan · Post Post #981 (isolation #56) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:17 am

Feysal wrote:My thoughts on the matter are that the scum probably had to kill Powerrox. His ability would've become increasingly powerful the longer he lived. The fewer players there are left, the more dangerous it becomes having two neighbors you can't kill safely. Even if the scum might've had more appealing targets than you or Seacore last night, that might no longer be true tonight or the night after. What I'm saying is if I was a scum neighborizer, I would not have cared who Powerrox watched, I'd have wanted him dead sooner rather than later regardless, and I'd probably have talked to someone else to establish town credit with someone still alive. Yes, I am confused by kryptinen's claim of talking to him twice.

I can agree with this, Powers death was inevitable considering his role-claim therefore it wasn't 'who he was positioned next to' which had any factor in his death but just the strength of his role overall.

It seems I'm not the only one failing to see how Krypt would gain anything substancial from re-neighbourizing Powerrox as scum which is why I want Seacore and AV to elaborate on why they believe that her claim makes her more likely to be scum than town.

Regfan · Post Post #983 (isolation #57) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:36 am

Fuck that GreyICE, that's a stupid hammer, I was here waiting to near-deadline to hammer. Hammering like that just ceases productive conversation.

Regfan · Post Post #985 (isolation #58) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:44 am

GreyICE wrote:Not sure what productive conversation is left kthx.

An answer to this perhaps:

Regfan wrote:I want Seacore and AV to elaborate on why they believe that her claim makes her more likely to be scum than town.

Regfan · Post Post #993 (isolation #59) » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:20 am

No one makes any comment or vote until mass-claim is over.

I'm a VT

Nacho next is fine.

Regfan · Post Post #995 (isolation #60) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:13 pm

Wait what.

You ignored me at night................

Regfan · Post Post #996 (isolation #61) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:14 pm

Jesus christ, my bad. Somehow your post didn't turn the QT to show bright blue. I was wondering where everyone was myself (Seacore only replied to me in short bits)

Regfan · Post Post #999 (isolation #62) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:58 pm

I'm going to be away for the next 48 hours more than likely, moving back home however this mass-claim needs to speed up. Unless I'm mistaken most people are already locked into claims due to claiming to their neighbour therefore the order of the mass-claim really shouldn't make too much of a difference to be honest.

Regfan · Post Post #1001 (isolation #63) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:14 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:By the way I just realized this means im confirmed town. Bitchin.

Explain, and claim at the same time I want to have something to ponder about on the trip home.

Regfan · Post Post #1003 (isolation #64) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Being vague is pointless right now, we're massclaiming today and players are locked into claims therefore you releasing more information early isn't going to do anything but help.

Regfan · Post Post #1005 (isolation #65) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:47 pm

Sigh. Do as you please then, just have mass-claim done by the time I'm back so we can actually start playing.

Regfan · Post Post #1017 (isolation #66) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Wait, jesus christ can someone unvote I'm completly out of the loop here, who moved?

Regfan · Post Post #1020 (isolation #67) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:25 pm

I have claimed, I'm Susan Childs a VT. I assumed that I was talking to Llama because my previous neighbour was lynched. Sorry just give me a few minutes I want to work something out.

Regfan · Post Post #1023 (isolation #68) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:31 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:You and Seacore moved positions, apparently perminantly. I mean, why did you think you were able to talk to me last night (and today).

I had two new neighbours last night because one was shot and the other lynched, so I just thought it was the normal process of obtaining new neighbours.

Alright, Llama is clear then, whoever was Feysals neighbour N1, did he claim that exact role to you then?

Regfan · Post Post #1025 (isolation #69) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:54 pm

Feysal wrote:Were they talking? Llama did say he had been ignored.

I messaged him at the start of the night and didn't think he had ever responded however he did and for some reason it didn't turn that QT blue.

Feysal wrote:Anyway, I agree that whoever did the last switch is our last scum. I cannot think of a pro-town reason not to claim it at this point. And that does rule out LlamaFluff, unless we're going to believe he is both a daytalker and the switcher. You can confirm his ability to daytalk, I presume?
I can yes, and he's confirmed town.

Feysal wrote:Now you're acting seriously confused. Your neighbors used to be kryptinen and Seacore, and after kryptinen was lynched and you were switched with Seacore, your new neighbors were Seacore and LlamaFluff. You only had one new neighbor, one you ignored according to him.

You're wrong. My neighbours were Powerrox and Kryptinen, Powerrox died and Krypt was lynched. I was given 2 new neighbours.

Regfan · Post Post #1026 (isolation #70) » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:55 pm

Broken quote tags... Feysal, can you briefly explain the flavour of your role please.

Regfan · Post Post #1033 (isolation #71) » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Can you please not quick-lynch me, roughly 4-5 days from now I'll have the free time needed to actually give this the attention it deserves.

My first thought though is that it's Feysal - Thinking about his role DOESN'T want to die so what would be the gain from claiming to your neighbour N1 apart from being viewed as town to them.

Regfan · Post Post #1037 (isolation #72) » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:50 pm

Will do, I'm unsure if I've gone too far into what they've said or not. Ugh. Let me send it to the mod.

Regfan · Post Post #1041 (isolation #73) » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:29 pm

Feysal wrote:Nope. I am fully aware that my role would be a perfect scum claim, since it discourages town from lynching me while I can't actually do anything. Perhaps it is too perfect, since town would of course think the same. But that is irrelevant. It was Twistedspoon who claimed it, so you'd have to consider whether he would've thought of it, or whether Setael or kryptinen would've given it to him.

Yeah, this is where I get stuck. I'm having difficulty seeing TS come up with that claim and then replace out. Ugh. I also don't see any realistic way that Nacho would gambit by claiming Survivor if he was a scum power role, it makes no sense whatsoever. Also if the last scum power was a backup role, would they not have just waited to take GreyICE's role and shoot tonight for the win?

Feysal wrote:Twistedspoon claimed simply because Nacho did. I know this because he said so when he claimed to AV. Also, he claimed mere eighteen minutes after Nacho had claimed to him.

Fair enough.

Feysal wrote:If you believe me the last scum, answer me this. Why would I have derailed the AV wagon by voting kryptinen? Were I scum, it would have been easy to join the AV wagon, given that I had expressed suspicion of him earlier, his wagon consisted solely of my town reads, and those who had voted kryptinen were the very players I had been suspicious of. I cannot imagine scum doing what I did at the time.

That same question can be asked of nearly everyone - I for instance pushed against a Seacore and AV lynch saying they were both town however your continual suspicion of me despite that means that you yourself don't virew those actions as town-tells.

Still waiting on LMP.

Regfan · Post Post #1045 (isolation #74) » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:15 am

Mod gave me the go ahead:

N1 - Krypt says she really thought the flip was going to be scum especially when he lurked and gave up. Doom agrees, says he wants to look into Sea and AV mostly for reasons he stated inthread apparently. He then states he's confused about the change to Jedo. Krypt says both are fishy but Sea looked town at daystart and she doesn't like Packbats hammer. Doom agrees, says AV looked opportunistic, asks what Pack has said to her. Kryp responds saying nothing.

N2 - I post my entire catch up post there while I'm going. Krypt says that's a lot of text, states she prefers ISO's and progresses to write 2-3 lines about each player. Gist of it is: ICE, town due to doing nothing sucmmy. Pack, scummy doesn't like his play finds it annoying. Power, town due to claim. Sea, null to possible bussing. Llama, needs to think about more now. Nacho, believes his claim. TS (Feysal), wants to look into him the most, a lot because of #185. AV, null dislikes AV's fixation on her.

Regfan · Post Post #1054 (isolation #75) » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:01 pm

I don't have the time do an anaylsis just yet - I'll get to it later today but if anyone else is interested below are the vote counts.

Spoiler: Day 1

Spoiler: Day 2

Spoiler: Day 3

Regfan · Post Post #1067 (isolation #76) » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:24 pm

AV, the final mafia has to get through two days lynches with multiple power role claims out in the open therefore the final mafia would be more inclined to take some form of risk in an attempt to clear themselves. If anything Seacores move towards GreyICE would ressemble a gambit attempt from the mafia therefore I'm unable to determine how your town-read on Seacore stems from this.

Although I don't agree with your reasoning behind the Seacore town-read I still have quite a strong town-read on him myself, I believe the interactions between Krypt, Seacore and Set on day one make them highly unlikely to be partners, furthermore looking at the VCA Seacore was on Krypt throughout a large portion of day one and moved to suggseted Set further on. I fail to see him attempt to double buss in this sort of position when he was already highly suspected.

Nacho, I'm still unsure if I understand the full reasoning for your supposed attempted gambit, it's a basic fact that claiming some form of survival role as a VT would actually lead to an increased likelihood that a power-role would die at night reducing the strength that town has alive. Though, I don't exactly understand the 'scum-slip' that's being pushed in relation to the name-change, there's no chance for a name-counter claim in a setup like this meaning there's highly likely no fake-claims from the mafia, if this is the case what's gained from changing his role-name during the game?

To top that of, I'm uncertain whether I believe that Nacho would attempt to fake a survivor claim with Krypt and Fuzzy being his original partners. He would know that there's a great likelyhood that both would be lynched farily early into the game leading to a situation like this where he's forced to take responsibility for his gambit with a mslynch in hand.

I'm still behind and haven't had a chance to read into the AV or Nacho cases which I will attempt to do later today as well as actually going through and stating my anaylsis over the vote-count placed earlier. At the moment though the more I read the more I am certain of both Seacore and Llama being town due to previous interactions and their claims. I do have to agree with Nacho in regards to TS/Feysal as well though, as much as I may suspect that slot I'm finding it highly, highly unlikely that Krpt/Fuzzy/TS came up with that claim together, claimed it N0 and followed up with him replacing out.

Regfan · Post Post #1073 (isolation #77) » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:22 pm

Sorry, I have a tendacy to avoid looking into a game when I'm near clueless over who the final scum is, I promise I will force myself to sit down, read through this properly and state my thoughts in the next 24 hours though.

Regfan · Post Post #1076 (isolation #78) » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:20 am

Alright, my notes and revision are complete and my finals are today and tommorow, when they're done this games going to get blown wide open.

Regfan · Post Post #1081 (isolation #79) » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:16 am

[quote="Nachomamma8"Regfan, don't lurk for years and years. You got pissed when I did it, so don't you pull this on me now.[/quote]

In the middle of my uni finals, my last one is in 2 hours and when that ends I'll focus on this.

Regfan · Post Post #1083 (isolation #80) » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm

I've been reading through Krypts interactions with various players lately and her constant mention and push towards a Seacore lynch whenever possible makes me more than certain that Seacore is indeed town, this essentially means that mafia moved players around last night using an ability not to avoid risk but instead to attempt to gain some sort of advantage or ammunition to push towards for today and tommorow. Feysal pointing out the N0 post indicator reads as a town-tell, I see no particular reason for him to attempt to clear or defend AV in a manner such as this while not pushing strongly in other avenues, it's just opening himself up to suspicion being cast against him. For the record, AV there was no mention of the movement last night in our QT's at all.

I don't agree with Nachos point about AV and Krpys interactions and push likely to make it scum on scum, I have seen town push on scum multiple days in a row without the lynch going through therefore I'm unsure how you reach the conclusion that AV is scum since AV pushed on Krypt and she never got lynched until later in the game. I'm not at understanding the backhanded jabs that are being attempted to be thrown, what does the fact that Nacho helped push the Setal lynch (Goon) but not the Krypt lynch (PR) have to do with anything, even though Krypt was a PR her role was far from confirmable or strong meaning that essentially they were both goons. AV, are you attempting to suggest that Nacho was defending her soley because of her role?

AV, you're mispresenting the occurances of yesterday, the timing of Krypts vote on me wasn't a period where it was impossible that I was getting lynched, far from that her timing was opportunistic and read as an attempt to save herself via showing intention to vote and participate in the most likely mslynch of the day. You state that the discussion occured with GI with the agreement that there was minimal or no way that Nacho was indeed a VT therefore wouldn't his VT claim lead you to suspect him? If so what's with your continual doubt and mention of lines such as "Either this is TvT or you're mafia", lines such as that do nothing but leave you something to point back on later to defend yourself with.

When reading through I came across the quote listed below, my initial thought was to pass it of as nothing however re-reading it, it looks like Krypt is less than impressed at the amount of time and attention that AV has directed towards her even though there were alternate players who were giving her just as much ie. Seacore. The quote honestly reads as a subtle attempt to get AV to move elsewhere via giving him soft-ball questions to direct his attention towards.

Krypt wrote: I have some questions on my own: AurorusVox, why are you only focusing on me? What do you think about that L-1 vote, for example, and Jedi's not unvoting? (And I had not logged in since your question was posted, so I have not had any time to answer.)

I need the rest of tonight to mull over what I've read especially since today has been an excessively long and tiresome day but at the moment I'm leanign towards AV being mafia over Nacho, I shall alert you of my thoughts in the morning though.

Regfan · Post Post #1089 (isolation #81) » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:54 pm

AurorusVox wrote:Um. It gave Krypt an extra QT each night. She used that to talk to Powerrox. Twice. So he probably was telling her who he was Watching, or else why go back? That is far better than a Goon. But not only that; he pushed on Setael when the scum had three members alive, but didn't push Krypt when it would have gotten the scumteam down to 1 member and afforded town an extra mislynch. It's both the role and the situation.

If you legitimatly believe that the reasoning behind Krypt QT'ing Power was to find out who she was watching you would HAVE to beleive that I'm town because otherwise that's information that I could have attained and did attain, I asked Power who she was considering watching the night she died in which she stated Seacore.

AurorusVox wrote: How so? I was the most likely mislynch yesterday, as I was the one who reached L-1.

There was never any real intention stated to have you lynched whereas there were multiple players showing strong intention to push towards me in which Krypt tagged along.

AurorusVox wrote: Yes, I do highly doubt him, and his claim is one of the things I've mentioned in my suspicions of him, so I'm not sure what your point is when you suggest I've given it a free pass? I want to see him lynched equally as much as I want to see you lynched.

What I'm failing to understand is if you suspect him so strongly for multiple multiple reasons stated already then why are you finding it 'difficult' to determine which of Nacho or myself is mafia?

I understand the intention to progress through this day and into the next but I urge you to refrain from doing so in a rushed manner such as this, there's no gain from a quick lynch whereas drawing the day out will force mafia to get more cut-throat and ruthless in regards to pushing a particular lynch otherwise it increases the chances that they themselves are placed on the lynch-block.

Regfan · Post Post #1096 (isolation #82) » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:59 pm

AurorusVox wrote:And this again is something ONLY in the QT that we have no way of backing up.

You're continuing to miss the point, I'll attempt to point it out slowly:

1) You're stating the reasoning behind Krypt re-QT'ing Power involves attempting to work out who Power was watching. This would mean that mafia were worried that Power was going to watch their kill. This would mean that mafia were considering shooting either Seacore or myself and didn't want the kill to be watched.

2) You've shown no belief that Seacore was going to be killed as well as no belief that I was going to be killed therefore 1) makes no sense. If the sole reason for the re-QT'ing was to find out who she was attempting to watch then you're saying the other scum was unable to find that out. If you're saying that the other scum is unable to find that out then you're saying that Seacore and I are town which contradicts which your suspicion of me.

I hadn't realized that the deadline was so soon, I'll attempt to focus on this as much as I can in the morning.

Regfan · Post Post #1103 (isolation #83) » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:41 pm

AurorusVox wrote:@Reg: please explain the second bit more slowly; I don't understand why a scumteam consisting of you and Krypt being unable to find out who Power was watching clears anyone?

Sure. You're attempting to state that the reasoning for Krypts use of power was to extract X information from Power while also accusing me of being mafia. If I were mafia there would be no need for Krypt to use her power for X reasoning to extract because I would do so being the neighbour of Power. Essentially if you continue pushing the reasoning that Power was re-QT'ed to be that they badly wanted to find out who she was watching then you should also be of the opinion that I'm town.

I apologise for my recent halt in activity but I've been attending a lot of social functions now that universtiy is finished and didn't get to take the much needed game to review this to the level that I should have. Reading the past few pages the level of AV's fencesitting makes me near certain that he's mafia. He has stated that reason he's perfectly fine lynching either of us is that there's a ML while also realizing the constant amount of suspicion cast against him. If he were town I can't help but believe he would be attempting to ask me a lot more questions and look into the game into a much deeper level that he seems to be doing at the current moment to make sure that today didn't end in a mslynch and a forced lylo.

Vote: AV

With all that said I realize that the deadline is near ten hours away and that it will likely be my lynch that occurs then and acknowledge the massive need to use our mslynch today instead of having the game turn into a forced no lynch due to a lack of votes. I will be checking on this game a few hours before the deadline and if I find that I haven't been hammered by then or a sufficent number of votes has changed to AV I'll willingly self-hammer. If I am hammered before then, good luck to everyoen and please for the love of god don't attempt to re-do tommorow like today. Actually attempt to spend time and effort into relooking at the game with a fresh perspective.

Regfan · Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:03 pm

AurorusVox wrote:But that's only assuming that Power would tell you who he was watching. If he wouldn't tell you, maybe you thought Krypt would try. Moreover, if my suspicions of Krypt took hold with the others, his lynch was likelier than yours, so it wouldn't have been as much of a loss if Power "outed" Krypt's rolefishing as if he'd outed you as doing so. I don't accept that you being neighbours with Power makes you any less likely scum. Not to mention that the first night, Setael was Power's neighbour, and Krypt neighboured him on N1. That kind of completely trashes your argument.

1. My argument refers to the fact that Power re-QT'ed which you're stating was to attain further information therefore the fact that he was neighbourized N1 is meaningless.

2. You're claiming that I believed that Power wouldn't tell me who she neighbourized therefore asked Krypt to neighbourize her when I was only in the game for one night therefore it would be impossible to have knowledge over whether I believed Power would give me that information or not.

AurorusVox wrote:"Fencesitting"? I've said clearly that you OR Nacho are mafia. That's not fencesitting, that's having two perfectly good suspects, and having the chance to lynch both.

That's the definition of fencesitting, you have two suspects and swing between them whenever you feel like it because 'they're both your suspects'.

AurorusVox wrote:I've already made my case against you yesterday, and added more to it today, and you've not come back with anything to make me change my mind. Nacho I've also considered extensively. Unless Seacore is scum (highly highly unlikely, something I think as a result of "looking into the game at a much deeper level") then EVEN IF you're town, we can't lose this.

1. You haven't exactly made a case against me because if you had you would be highly interested in me attempting to respond to it, your 'case' is just statting that you dislike Doom and Krypts interactions and nothing more.
2. You state that it's impossible to lose if I'm town which is completely untrue, you fail to recognize the fact that there is suspicion cast towards you therefore when I flip town it would still be You vs Nacho which isn't an autowin position at all.

AurorusVox wrote:On that point, actually. Do you think Seacore is scum? Your arguments only make sense if you do, since Seacore is doing exactly what you're describing, and, moreover, I only have motivation to look beyond you and Nacho if I think Seacore is scum. I don't think Seacore is scum, and I
know
that suspecting you and Nacho is not a scumtell in any way, shape, or form. So sorry, but your whole argument is invalid.

This is completly incorrect as explained earlier I believe the mafia is one of you and nacho therefore you attempting to question if I believe Seacore is a blatant misrepresentation of what I've said.

Regfan · Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:39 pm

I'm not saying 'Krypt wouldn't QT Power', I'm saying your reasoning behind Krypt Re-QT'ing Power makes no logical sense due to X being the case. I replaced into the night about 1/3 of the way into it I believe. There's one mafia remaining, having two suspects with one mafia is understandable but having no difference between the scumminess of the two suspects is not understandable, nor is attempting to look into which you believe is more likely mafia, that's blatant fencesitting.

AurorusVox wrote:Reg is still scummy from previous days, and if scum moved themselves last night, between him and Seacore he comes out by far the worst. Also, I really don't believe he missed all the QT topic posts - I'm guessing here but LF/Seacore, did you ask him about the switch? My thought is, if he's scum he probably didn't fancy facing questions about that. I still maintain there are connections between Krypt and DB, and I still have an issue with Reg saying Krypt acted protown in the QTs. From the sounds of what Krypt said to him, he posted a bunch of non-committal reads. I also find it hard to believe that if Reg was town, Krypt didn't try to rolefish him like he tried on me.

1. I've discussed the moving of quick topics and going into that in depth already of which you have responded by saying you're unsure how to read my confusion therefore that wouldn't be part of your case.
2. I've discussed and brought up what exactly was said in the QT which you haven't responded to.
3. How would she have been in any position to rolefish yesterday, furthermore you haven't responded to her lack of voting anyone that's scum throughout the game connected with the fact that she voted me.

AurorusVox wrote:From
my perspective
, it's impossible to lose, because if you flip town, I *know* Nacho is scum. Of course it's not autowin if everyone else votes elsewhere (for me, like you say), but that's always the case - we could all vote Llama today if we're going to talk about hypotheticals that make no sense.

AurorusVox wrote:No, I'm not attempting to represent anything that you've said in ANY form, let alone misrepresent it. What I'm saying is that you're ignoring the fact that for your argument to make sense, Seacore has to be a scum suspect. If he ISN'T then you and Nacho are GOING TO BE the two suspects, since everyone else is pretty much clear. Your argument has NO merit if you don't think Seacore is scum, because OF COURSE you and Nacho are my two suspects today; you've both been scummy, and neither of you are clear. You're ignoring context completely.

You're not making sense at all. I'll attempt to explain it here, there's three main suspects, these include Nacho, You and myself. Saying that you don't need to scumhunt because you will know the mafia tommorow is meaningless because the odds you would be lynched would be 50% which is extremely high.

Regfan · Post Post #1109 (isolation #86) » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 am

AurorusVox wrote:But it DOES make sense. Since he neighboured PR with a scum already as his neighbour, if he got the answer he was looking for (who is PR watching?) then he did that WHILST having a scum neighbour next to PR, and did it a second time with a scum neighbour next to PR for the same reason as he did it the first time. If he DIDN'T get the answer that he was looking for the first time, maybe he thought he'd try again; maybe you both tried! And if you were a mid-night replacement, Power has even more reason to neighbour PR, since he wouldn't have known that you would be replacing in, in time, to rolefish instead of him!

Ah, I see where you're coming from but I still disagree the logic of using a power for the sole reason for performing something currently possible doesn't make sense at all to me.

AurorusVox wrote:And I have been looking into who's scummy. I consider you
both
as highly likely to flip scum. Of course, I'm wrong about one of you, but that isn't fencesitting, that's the fact that there's only one scum left! I think you're likelier to flip scum, which is why I'm voting for you, but there isn't much in it and so I would have been happy voting for Nacho today. When you're both very scummy then its hard to judge who's "scummier" because you're scummy for different things.

Again you haven't called my actions scummy once, instead you've attempted to base majority of your accusation of past activities done by Doom thereby giving me ntohing to defend against, furthermore your continual admittance that you find two very different players

equally

scummy makes no sense at all to me as thereby you're implying that one town player is just as scummy as a mafia player.

AurorusVox wrote:If you mean the QTs with Krypt, then that makes no difference because if you're scum you have no reason to tell the truth about what was said there. I DON'T believe that Krypt wouldn't try to rolefish you, and you saying otherwise - when I think you're scum - isn't going to change my mind.

You've stated that part of your reasoning is due to the exchanges between us in the QTS, I was then asked to go into our conversation in more detail which I did and you made no comment on. Not just that but it was you that was asking for information on them, if you're going to refuse to believe anything I say about them or even stop to consider it I don't understand the purpose of asking about them or pushing it as reasoning behind your case.

AurorusVox wrote:I have responded plenty of times to Krypt's voting pattern by pointing out her fear of large and popular wagons. She didn't hammer Seacore, she distrusted the hammer vote on Quar (despite "thinking" he was scum) - and she avoided voting for you until NO ONE else was voting for you, and it looked like I was going to be mislynched. Hell, the way you're relying on it as a defence here makes me think you probably told her to throw a vote your way if she could get away with it, because you could see it would come back to bite you in the ass if she didn't!

By this are you meaning to infer that it wasn't popular to be suspicious of me yesterday? I haven't relied on this defence at all, I didn't even bring it up Nacho did however if you believe I would tell her to place a vote on me to use this a defence then wouldn't you believe that I would have brought it up at some point?

AurorusVox wrote:I'm not saying I don't need to scumhunt. I've been scumhunting you both. I've been providing cases on you both. I've been responding to your cases on me. You're trying to make out like I've just popped in and voted with nothing else which is a plain lie. You're also failing to see that with Seacore out of the equation (which is where you'd put him too), FMPOV the scum HAS to be between you and Nacho, and I've been focusing my efforts on you both and decided that (a) you're scummier, and (b) Nacho is scum tomorrow if you're town. Honestly, what you're saying makes no sense in the context of what's actually happened today, and it looks like you're desperately trying to get me mislynched in your place.

You haven't scumhunted, you can consider that you have as much as you want but your actions has been standing back and saying I have a mslynch and two suspects, I don't care which get lynched! I haven't said that you haven't done anything but I strongly believe you've avoided doing anything that could potentially shine a posiitve light on Nacho or myself.

You contradict yourself here because you state that you believe I'm scummier while saying earlier and stressing that you believe we're equally scummy.

Regfan · Post Post #1113 (isolation #87) » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:44 am

AurorusVox wrote:I say it's close but I've cut out all the background noise so you can see that I am calling you scummier than Nacho. You can't expect me to ignore everything Doom did. And the defence of Krypt due to the QT was all you. So I don't see how you can argue that it's Doom's play that I'm focussing on.

I've never said to ignore Dooms actions, I've said you're attempting to base as much as you can around that rather than mine since you know it's impossible for me to defend and explain all of his actions.

AurorusVox wrote:No, you're getting it wrong. I said I didn't believe that Krypt's interactions with you in the QT would have given you a town read on him. Put plainly, I'm saying I think you were lying about it to excuse not going after him if you could, yesterday. I'm not saying that what you've said you talked about points to KryptScum, I'm saying the lack of feeling of scumminess from you, regarding him, in those QTs makes you suspicious. I will look at them if you flip town but at the moment I don't think that's happening so what you SAY you've said is just a pile of WIFOM.

I've attempted to explain this multiple times, NONE of the times do you attempt to take anything I say into consideration but instead believe 'Oh since he could be lying he must be lying'.

AurorusVox wrote:You're being inconsistent in applying your scumtells, because Seacore has the same opinion as me - and has had a lower presence in the thread, a more "standing back" approach, which he has openly admitted to - and yet you've given him a free pass. If you had considered him as scum (I don't think he's scum at all, but from your point of view, from what you've said at least, he should be a suspect for you) I might have taken you more seriously. As it stands, I think you're only focussing on me because you want to latch onto Nacho and try to get me mislynched. If there was a vote on Nacho rather than on me, I don't doubt
he'd
have been your primary suspect.

1. Seacore has a less than active nature demeanor, that alotted with his previous actions and my strong town-read on him mean that him doing X doesn't mean that you doing X is a null-tell.
2. I've explained my reasoning for viewing him as town, and my reasoning for believing your actions are opportunistic and I don't have the energy continue repeating them.
3. This is extreme tunnel vision and confirmation bias you're essentially saying 'Since you're pushing on me when X suspects me you must be mafia' while ignoring the legitimate reasons that I have for suspecting you.

Seacore wrote:For the love of god somebody hammer

I'lll be online for the next hour or so, if no one has hammered by then I'll happily selfhammer in an attempt to make sure the mslynch isn't put to use, just promise to take my thoughts, opinions and arguments into consideration tommorow.

Regfan · Post Post #1114 (isolation #88) » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:27 am

Nachos activity is spottish and Feysal lives in Europe so there's a chance neither are going to be online in the next two hours which is when deadline ends. I don't want to hear anyone attempt to complain about the actions undertaken in this post because right now it's crucial lynch go through even if it's on town.

Unvote, Vote: Regfan

Good luck tommorow - Don't forget what I've said today.

Regfan · Post Post #1146 (isolation #89) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Seriously guys, what the fuck was that.

Regfan · Post Post #1169 (isolation #90) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:27 am

LMP, this game was actually one of my favourite games despite the end result and the fact that I got lynched, it was run amazingly smoothly and the flavour has to be the best I have ever read. Well, congrats AV. I don't know how you did it but congratulations nevertheless. I shall have all my thoughts up sometime tommorow.