Mini 1160 - Cupcake Mafia! Cupcakes Baked to Perfection!

[vollkan]

@What I look for is scum intent. If there were some scum intent in posting elephant in your third post, I would seize upon it as a good starting point, and continue to assess everyone. I see scum intent in aloofness. If you do it all the time, that does not remove the scum intent. Is it going to mean I think you're scum forever? No. I mean, if I believed that I'd have to vote myself every game for the possible scum intent in voting the mod. Hopefully this explains why I disregard meta better than I have been.

Theory debate, so feel free not to respond. I'd just point out that I think "scum intent" is really a proxy for trying to find evidence that something is more likely to come from scum than town.

To prove this: Both town and scum have a motivation to vote (town to catch scum, scum to lynch town). Of course, nobody would suggest that voting is a scumtell simply because there is possible scum intent - because obviously there is a good chance a voter is town. Likewise, to use a non-meta-scumtell and make this more relevant, if a player is consistently apathetic under certain circumstances, there remains a "scum intent", but the evidential significance of that intent is eroded.

To be clear, you are saying that there is precedent for Fate-scum softclaiming and being kept alive because of said soft-claim?

o_O

Please don't tell me you're serious

Yes...?

*ducks*

Any links?

BTW, vollkan the whole self serving "i don't do this as scum!" self-meta didn't work in Popularity Mafia. Why would you do that again here?

Because it's true.

For meta reasons Fate and GreyICE are town. They did the same thing in the dating game mafia and both were town. Kise and all his gambiting goodness is town. These three need to stop targeting each other.

I can't say much about the Fate thing, but I completely fail to see how Fate-GeyICE makes them town. The fact that they have had a similar argument before has nothing to do with their alignment.

(And before the inevitable howling from certain quarters, there is a big difference between me saying "Apathy from me in these sorts of situations is not a scumtell because it happens to me a lot no matter what my alignment" and C-Worl saying "Fate and GeyICE have been like this in another game, so they are both town")

C-Worl is the worst player in the game, replacing the formerly worst slot. SHock. And AWE.
scumread on the slot reinstated.

VI =/= Scum

Vollkan is still a disaster (I vote based on meta! I won't check the meta, but Fate is town because of meta!).

I never "refused" to check Fate's meta. It's just that from my knowledge of his meta, this matches null-Fate. You say he is playing the way Fate-scum players, which obviously changes things.

-This is still one of the scummier posts of the game. "I'll hop on, but if you're lying and pushing a PL on town [Because I know you're both town] I'll be soooo mad!"

This is my fault for wording it the way I did. But to repeat, as I have said already I had no reason to doubt Parama's claim. By "I'll be pissed if this is a policy lynch" it was to say to Parama "If you aren't 100% serious about this, come clean now"

Also of note, his case is "not complete." Now why wouldn't he put together a complete case? Maybe it's because his first attempt didn't fly right away. He couldn't get any grabbers. So now he's got to go find something else to twist to whatever he wants. He did this EXACT SAME THING in DEFCON.

Cupcake+5

Horribly overused, but this is one situation where the word "reaching" is appropriate. Posting an incomplete case is not a scumtell.

IF (and it's a massive IF) he then ran away to something else, then maybe you would have an argument. But preemptively calling him scum based on posting an incomplete case is just ridiculous.

I could believe a poorly written PR that lets has a loophole. I cannot believe there is essentially no repercussions. You have broken you PR four times. You are either a liability or scum. I'm leaning scum.

VOTE: Fate

And again...faking a PR =/= scummy

[C-Worl]

Oh hai Vollk, that's a cool wall ya got thur. Y no Toog vote in it??

[GreyICE]

Ahhhhhhh. Vollkan, I love it. I really do. If Fate's scum, he has buddies.

SCUMSLIP DETECTED. How did you know scum were muffins? LLD's miller claim revealing that information doesn't come until later this page. DING DING DING

That's Fate's vote for Toog. That's it. That's the case.

This is toog's vote for Fate:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3011960

What it lacks: Any of the things you said it had.

Horribly overused, but this is one situation where the word "reaching" is appropriate. Posting an incomplete case is not a scumtell.

IF (and it's a massive IF) he then ran away to something else, then maybe you would have an argument. But preemptively calling him scum based on posting an incomplete case is just ridiculous.

Notably, Toog's post came significantly AFTER Toog's vote on Fate. Fate's vote is on page 19.

Cupcake is on page 17.

Misrepresentation to build to a vote is a scumtell, oh yes it is.

+10 Vollkan.

You have nobly maintained a null read on every action he's taken this game and defended him while 'not defending' and positioning yourself to move onto Toog's wagon.

He's scum. You're scum with him. And now we have it. Fate+Parama+Vollkan. You're his offering he's tossing to me if I want to lynch scum today to help confirm him, while he pushes the mislynch.

Vote: Fate

[vollkan]

Oh hai Vollk, that's a cool wall ya got thur. Y no Toog vote in it??

Because Toog isn't #1:

Player	Score
Fate	50
GreyICE	50
smargaret	55
CupcakePanda	55
chesskid3	50
VasudeVa	55
Stephoscope	50
GhostWriter	50
Parama	50
UshiromiyaAnge	50
tclawren	50
Kise	50

Notably, Toog's post came significantly AFTER Toog's vote on Fate. Fate's vote is on page 19. Cupcake is on page 17. Misrepresentation to build to a vote is a scumtell, oh yes it is. +10 Vollkan.

What's your point exactly? Toog says that the incomplete case was a scumtell. The fact his post came way after his vote doesn't seem relevant to that at all.

[GreyICE]

Notably, Toog's post came significantly AFTER Toog's vote on Fate. Fate's vote is on page 19. Cupcake is on page 17. Misrepresentation to build to a vote is a scumtell, oh yes it is. +10 Vollkan.

What's your point exactly? Toog says that the incomplete case was a scumtell. The fact his post came way after his vote doesn't seem relevant to that at all.

Cupcake+5

Horribly overused, but this is one situation where the word "reaching" is appropriate. Posting an incomplete case is not a scumtell.

IF (and it's a massive IF) he then ran away to something else, then maybe you would have an argument. But

preemptively calling him scum based on posting an incomplete case is just ridiculous.

Toog had been voting for him for two days.

So Toog was calling him scum and voting to lynch him for two pages before Fate voted Toog. Toog was pointing out another scummy thing the person Toog's vote WAS SITTING ON was doing.

You done fucked up, son.

[GreyICE]

*two pages

[Fate]

Well you're dumbfuck wrong about me as usual. The fact that you think I'm scum should clue you in that you're WRONG.

"oh but fateee i caught you in sqenix i got u lynched d2 it was epixxxx ic an readaz you"

HEY DUMB FUCK VEZOK WAS MY PARTNER YOU THINK I GAVE A FUCK ABOUT THAT GAME?

And I know you're wrong about Volkan+Parama, because Parama is DEF not scum with Volkan. If you really think Volkan is scum with me thne have your vot eon me instead of wasting on me, cause Volkan actually IS scum.

His point against his buddy is good though, Toog's saying "OH LOOK EVERYHIN FATE DOES IS SCUM" and calling my case shit and trying to twist my busy schedule and not having time to write a case as "TROLOLOL SCUM FISHIN FOR LYNCHES" or some shit. AKA Volkan is saying Toog is callign osmething a scumtell (me having an incomplete case) which ISNT a scumtell, and that's scummy on Toog's part


Toog is obviously scum here, and you're blindly drinking the kool aid like a fuckin moron.


"FATE HAS ONLY THIS CRAPTELL REASONING TO VOTE TOOG"

No actually I have a holistic and complete view of the game and many reads, just not enough time to write a formal reads post explaining it. When you were scum AGAINST me as town you feared this style, feared my "case waiting in the wings" because you know I made a vote with more reasoning behind it than I posted.

Here? You're being a fuckin moron who has apparently forgotten my meta "TROLOL FATES ONLY VOTING TOOG FOR A SPPOSED SCUMSLIP ON PAGE 2? THATS LAL HES GOT? MY GOD FATE BE SCUMZ"

Bullshit.

I

<3

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[Kise]

unvote
vote: cupcakepanda

[Kise]

unvote
vote: cupcakepanda

[CupcakePanda]

Are you a muffin with frosting masquerading as a cupcake?

I legitly feel like the way LLD did it makes her look better with the way she provided additional information though.

I WIFOM Millers all the fucking time, but the fact that LLD claimed in red the Muffins are scum thing made me like the claim overall.

If one player has a role that mentions muffins, maybe more roles have mentionings of muffins and he is attempting to see who comes forth on that.

I've been leaking that I know Muffins exist because it's in my goddamn role PM you jackwads. I am a

Stale Cupcake

, Bulletproof. Flavor talks about how I have sat out too long while all the other Cupcakes get eaten and fresher newer ones get baked, but because of this, I have developed a hardened body. I am impervious to Muffin attacks.


I've been dropping the damn hints hoping to be obvious enough that I was power to draw a damn night kill.

[Kise]

K

unvote

so we should agree to lynch volk or smarg now.

[vollkan]

Notably, Toog's post came significantly AFTER Toog's vote on Fate. Fate's vote is on page 19. Cupcake is on page 17. Misrepresentation to build to a vote is a scumtell, oh yes it is. +10 Vollkan.

What's your point exactly? Toog says that the incomplete case was a scumtell. The fact his post came way after his vote doesn't seem relevant to that at all.

Cupcake+5

Horribly overused, but this is one situation where the word "reaching" is appropriate. Posting an incomplete case is not a scumtell.

IF (and it's a massive IF) he then ran away to something else, then maybe you would have an argument. But

preemptively calling him scum based on posting an incomplete case is just ridiculous.

Toog had been voting for him for two days.

So Toog was calling him scum and voting to lynch him for two pages before Fate voted Toog. Toog was pointing out another scummy thing the person Toog's vote WAS SITTING ON was doing.

You done fucked up, son.

I think we must be talking at cross-purposes or something. Which part of the following don't you get:

1) Panda attacked Fate for an incomplete case, alleging (conspiracy argument) that Fate was trying to cover his arse from commitment.
2) A person's case is only scummy if and when they complete it (ie. nothing scummy about an incomplete case).
3) It is scummy to attack somebody in preemption of them actually finishing their argument, based on conspiracy about their motives (ie. "X is trying to avoid posting in full")
4) Thus, Panda is scummy

Hence, I can't see why the two pages thing is relevant. Heck, it could have been 20 pages and I'd still have a problem with Panda's argument.

[Parama]

Hey vollkan
No offense
your points system is totally useless

unvote, vote: vollkan

though it's not exactly that important in this game

[GreyICE]

I think we must be talking at cross-purposes or something. Which part of the following don't you get:

1) Panda attacked Fate for an incomplete case, alleging (conspiracy argument) that Fate was trying to cover his arse from commitment.
2) A person's case is only scummy if and when they complete it (ie. nothing scummy about an incomplete case).
3) It is scummy to attack somebody in preemption of them actually finishing their argument, based on conspiracy about their motives (ie. "X is trying to avoid posting in full")
4) Thus, Panda is scummy

Hence, I can't see why the two pages thing is relevant. Heck, it could have been 20 pages and I'd still have a problem with Panda's argument.

So Fate hasn't posted since he made that case and has had no opportunity to complete it!

Oh wait...

And that's ignoring the fact that Panda had been calling fate scum for two pages, so saying that Panda was calling him scum

because

of the incomplete case is a total, provable misrep.

[vollkan]

Hey vollkan
No offense
your points system is totally useless

unvote, vote: vollkan

though it's not exactly that important in this game

Using a points system you don't like =/= scum

So Fate hasn't posted since he made that case and has had no opportunity to complete it!

You've got the chronology messed up:

My case is not complete.

Also of note, his case is "not complete." Now why wouldn't he put together a complete case? Maybe it's because his first attempt didn't fly right away. He couldn't get any grabbers. So now he's got to go find something else to twist to whatever he wants. He did this EXACT SAME THING in DEFCON.

Yes, Fate has posted since then, but I can't for the life of me see how you don't have a problem with Panda calling him scummy for it. By all means, if Fate can't come up with anything, whack on the scumpoints, but I fail to see why him saying "my case is not complete" is some damning admission.

And that's ignoring the fact that Panda had been calling fate scum for two pages, so saying that Panda was calling him scum because of the incomplete case is a total, provable misrep.

I don't think I've ever even implied that Panda's only reason for suspecting Fate is this issue.

[Parama]

vollkan you completely misrepresented me there, nice job.

[Fate]

K

unvote

so we should agree to lynch volk or smarg now.

What the fuck is this shit?

Hey vollkan
No offense
your points system is totally useless

unvote, vote: vollkan

though it's not exactly that important in this game

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

You guys realize he DID just claim Bulletproof with some bullshit flavor to EXPLAIN why he knew scum were muffins and he had that on his mind.

And everyone's like "OH COOL A STALE CUPCAKE UNVOTE"

TOOG IS DYING TODAY YOU FUCKIN CLOWNS.


TOWN ALLIANCE GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES

CONFIRM VOTE: CUPCAKEPANDA

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[Fate]

WELL ANYWAY, now that Toog is confirmed scum in my eyes my catching up in this game has been focused SOLELY on destroying him and his scummy fuck ISO:

I'm far more skeptical than some of you of both Grey and Fate and their tiff. In DEFCON 2.0, Fate pulled the same types of attacks against me that resounds similarly here against Grey, however, in Camden, Grey used the same attacks against me as he started off with here as well. They were scum in their corresponding games.

Fate gets wild in every game, but not usually in the same type of scuffle which I am seeing here, which is what was reminding me of DEFCON. If he gets a little support as scum, he gets dangerous and feels he can take on a lot.

Grey's reads always seem better when he is town; I recall the stellar deconstruction in Multiple Personality Mafia that he had. Here, he is far more whimsical, almost "I don't care," mode.


In other words, I don't see any reason to call either obvtown. They aren't performing in a manner that I would write it off, and more so similar to manners I saw in previous games they played as scum. I am wary of Parama, suddenly, for his "I think they are both town, and this is going to be a trainwreck." My gut really didn't like that line of commentary, almost like it sounded as if there was a hint of inside information behind it.

^This is the crown jewel scum post, SO MANY WORDS but what does it fucking say?

WHAT? It says, "Fate and Parama are both acting like scum in their respective LOLHISTORYMETA, so I dunno I wouldn't call EITHER obvtown.... BUT.. Parama is scummy because he has inside info that BOTH are town."

None of the word jumple makes ANY clear line of town thought. It DOES however leave him open on lynch options of not one but THREE townies. Holy fuck scumbag.


Next:

WTF is with people and lying on Day 1 as gambits.

1

I raged at iPie for doing it in WoW Mafia, claiming dayvig on Krazy. Now we got Kise claiming Double Voter and "lolfailing" us. What I really don't like is that Kise first wanted Chesskid to claim. If this was a gambit, why ask for the claim? What if he had actually done it and came out as Cop or Doctor? And the fact that the gambit came and went in less than half a page of votes really doesn't say much for the effectiveness of it, nor how it automatically excuses people as town. If not for the vote count, I wonder how long Kise would have kept the facade up?

Only person I like right now is Ushiromiya for the Miller claim.

2

@Grey: Are you saying I am the scummiest person in the game, or that there isn't a scummy person and you just wanna park your vote on me until someone does something scummy?

3

I don't get the Policy Lynch on Chesskid either. He never seems like the strongest player, but I wouldn't put him in a PL category. He tries, he's active, and he does do some things right. I don't like Policy Lynches, but when I think of PLs, I think of players like vezok.


PEdit: I don't buy the rainbow post restriction. Fate does this shit all the time, it's like the boy who cried wolf. I doubt he's going to get quicklynched if he stops posting fruit loops.

1. "I don't really like the gambit at all because of WOW mafia which has nothing to do with anything" Toog tries to paint Kise as scummy for his gambit, tries to paint people as scummy and does NOT want to give out "town excuses."

This is a recurring theme in Panda's posts

he is RELUCTANT to call anyone town and to keep his options as wide open as possible

the only person he is able to call town is UA. ONE person out of fuckin twelve. I have townreads out the ass because I'm TOWN and trying to figure this game out, Panda? He has the miller claim as town... and...uh... LOL

I feel like I need to take a stand here as well.

Unvote;
Vote: Kise

K nice stand SCUMZ, no elaboration? Seriously voting him for a voting gambit and nothing else? With what backing, that he was rolefishing? I WOULDNT KNOW CUPCAKE NEVER EXPLAINS.

This line is fucking terrible Fate.

"I am confirmed town, let me live to massclaim. Then you can lynch me."

This is like a dare that should you end up alive at Massclaim (which normally happens around MyLo/LyLo) that you don't think anyone would question it. By that point, enough roles could be out for you to make up whatever role you want for you claim to make it look provable, or you can just give town the finger and say, "You can't risk lynching me now!"

I also have seen at least two posts now where your rainbow sprinkles have been messed up and heard or seen no repercussion for it.


I think either you or Parama might be scum at this point. I pointed out Parama's mention of you and Grey both being town and this game will trainwreck itself, which I didn't like (too much information), but you have pulled this act before as scum, and your posts are starting to ring off that vibe.

Unvote;
Vote: Fate

Terrible line how? If the scumteam leaves me alive until LyLo then TOWN WILL WIN guaranteed. If you THINK that my softclaim is survival motivated instead of pro-town motivated, then you should make an ACTUAL case on me rather than making that the case itself. Aka as town you could go "Wow Fate is saying no one should question why he's alive till massclaim? K... well HERES why Fate is scummy and we should hear his bullshit claim now."

INSTEAD you try and twist my softclaim into a scumtell itself, where it isn't, by going "TROLOLOL SOFTCLAIM? FATE IS SCUM WHO WANTS TO SURVIVE." The worst part is how clearly you're just piggybacking off of GreyDERP to get me lynched. More of your buddies are going to have to jump on (TCLA being the latest one, if memory serves?) to get me lynched. I don't think Volkan can pull it off atm though.

"Your posts are starting to ring off that vibe" how vague can you fuckin get? I also LOVE how easily you set-up a Parama lynch, "well Parama slipped inside information that you were BOTH town...so if you do flip town I'll go after him." So you're reaction to a post you read as "scumslippin who is town" is to vote the person... HE CALLED TOWN?

Bullfuckingshit. You're just rolefishing scum who wants to piggyback off GreyDERP and find out my claim. GUESS YOUR TEAM DOESNT HAVE A ROLE COP.


LETS LYNCH THIS FUCKING SCUM NOW GUYS

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[UshiromiyaAnge]

We are not dead, but my hydra buddy and I haven't been able to discuss the game for the past couple of days. I have some thoughts but I REALLY want her input on them before I proceed to make a serious post. I apologize for the inconvenience...

~UK

[Fate]

WOW..........

I post all that and get....

Nothing?

Not a single peep?

WAKE THE FUCK UP I WONT HAVE THIS "LETS BE ACTIVE INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL TO THE TIME FATE HAS TROLOLOL" GAME

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[vollkan]

vollkan you completely misrepresented me there, nice job.

You complained about the points system being useless and then voted me. Exactly what did I misrepresent?

See, the thing is, the only point you have ever raised against me (despite repeatedly calling me scum)is my chesskid vote, which I've already addressed twice now (with nobody responding to me on).

You guys realize he DID just claim Bulletproof with some bullshit flavor to EXPLAIN why he knew scum were muffins and he had that on his mind.

Didn't somebody say that muffins were mentioned in the signup thread?

WHAT? It says, "Fate and Parama are both acting like scum in their respective LOLHISTORYMETA, so I dunno I wouldn't call EITHER obvtown.... BUT.. Parama is scummy because he has inside info that BOTH are town."

None of the word jumple makes ANY clear line of town thought. It DOES however leave him open on lynch options of not one but THREE townies. Holy fuck scumbag.

It would make sense if he was just doing it to attack Parama (ie. "Fate and GreyICE are playing like scum, so why is Parama defending them") but the post is clear that he actually suspects you and GreyICE. As in, there is inconsistency in saying:
1) X and Y are scummy;
2) Z is scummy because he seems to have knowledge X and Y are town

In short, to the extent that he is suspicious of Parama, he must necessarily not be suspicious of you two.

And, wait...I'm agreeing with Fate.

Anyway,

Toog+5

Terrible line how? If the scumteam leaves me alive until LyLo then TOWN WILL WIN guaranteed. If you THINK that my softclaim is survival motivated instead of pro-town motivated, then you should make an ACTUAL case on me rather than making that the case itself. Aka as town you could go "Wow Fate is saying no one should question why he's alive till massclaim? K... well HERES why Fate is scummy and we should hear his bullshit claim now."

INSTEAD you try and twist my softclaim into a scumtell itself, where it isn't, by going "TROLOLOL SOFTCLAIM? FATE IS SCUM WHO WANTS TO SURVIVE." The worst part is how clearly you're just piggybacking off of GreyDERP to get me lynched. More of your buddies are going to have to jump on (TCLA being the latest one, if memory serves?) to get me lynched. I don't think Volkan can pull it off atm though.

Do you accept GreyICE's argument that softclaiming to stay alive as scum is part of your meta?

[smargaret]

I'm having computer trouble and will be limited in my ability to post until it's resolved. I'll post at least daily until then.

I'm getting more suspicious of Vollkan. The points thing seems to be a very arbitrary way to avoid voting your scumbuddy while saying they're scummy. Also, he's not following his own rules - Toog and Cupcake are the same, right? So Toog is now at 60 on the little magic chart, which is currently the highest number - shouldn't Vollkan be voting Toog now?

I don't get why Toog claimed. I don't know that I believe the claim. I do believe that Vollkan and Toog are likely to be scum together.

UA, your answers are coming in another post since I have to go back and find the questions and I don't want to risk losing this.

Vote: Vollkan

[smargaret]

1) "FATE'S PR IS REAL BECAUSE RAINBOW SPRINKLES." Yeah. Flavor speculation is bad, especially since you are using it as a kind of proxy defense. You even state explicitly:

That said, I don't think the presence of a PR says anything about his alignment.

Which to me reads like: "Fate isn't lying about this because of flavor shit, OH BUT I'M NOT DEFENDING HIM. NO. DON'T THINK THAT PLEASE."

Further, your vote on GI and your comments about him make it clear that you support Fate in this Fate vs. GI debate. While it is POSSIBLE that they could be bussing... I'm gonna throw this out.

Fate and GI are not scum together.

Assuming this opinion, if you think GI is scum, you imply Fate as town.

Unless, of course, you want to assume they are BOTH scum Smarg?

You can't sit on the fence with Fate while your vote is parked on GI. Sorry.

You're lying.

2) Here's a question: Why does it make sense if we are competent enough players to avoid investigation... that we would claim miller as scum? That would only draw attention towards us of a different sort. If we were scum, and we felt like we could avoid being investigated, it would make more sense NOT to claim miller.

Essentially, your logic is at best WIFOM; at worst WRONG.

~LLD

1. I'm trying to say that having a PR doesn't clear Fate. That doesn't prevent him from taking other actions that give me a town read on him. So yes, I think Grey Ice is possible scum (less so now than when you asked) and Fate is likely town. I wanted to make clear that the townread wasn't because of the PR.

2. That's sort of my point - your miller claim doesn't make sense in any universe, regardless of your alignment. It is pretty WIFOMy.

[vollkan]

I'm getting more suspicious of Vollkan. The points thing seems to be a very arbitrary way to avoid voting your scumbuddy while saying they're scummy. Also, he's not following his own rules - Toog and Cupcake are the same, right? So Toog is now at 60 on the little magic chart, which is currently the highest number - shouldn't Vollkan be voting Toog now?

Yeah, I just don't know what the votecount is. Since he's claimed, I figured he may be at L-1. By virtue of his chart position, though, he has my vote.

[GreyICE]

Oh my god.
I will give someone money if they shoot obvpartner Vollkan after we lynch scumfate.