Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[hitogoroshi]

ooh didn't know Gamma was a Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff fan

Vote: NobodySpecial

Policy.

[hitogoroshi]

Hey Mina, do you know what Vi/Spyrex think about sanity-confirmed cops?

[hitogoroshi]

(We're in agreement that our question to sottyrulez can wait...ooh! Just thought of something. Sotty, are you Troll himself? Your role name has no other descriptor?)

What is this I don't even

Faraday is town for 45.

[hitogoroshi]

Also while I've got my setup speculation hat on: if anyone has an ability to tell us which Domains were worshiped N0 that can be used during the day, trust me when I say we could really, REALLY use that information now. Like it would be worth dying.

I'm guessing there isn't one, though - I assume all power will be in the form of Casts. In which case we have a BUGGER of a problem ahead of us as to what we do N1.

Preview-Edit: AlmasterGM is scum, and NobodySpecial is probably his scumbuddy.

Unvote, Vote: AlmasterGM

[hitogoroshi]

1) This is a proveable power that would be really dumb to give scum and

Quoth every scum neighborizer.

2) I have had much worse experiences with mothrax than Nobody Special.

You replaced in to In the Court of the Gods. You got something worse than that on Mothrax?

[hitogoroshi]

Anyway... hitogoroshi, AlmasterGM does have a point. This is a silly power to give to scum; it's not like scum particularly benefit from double day.

Yes they do, if it's ONLY DOUBLE WHEN THE FIRST LYNCH IS A MISLYNCH. Double day, but the first lynch can't hit scum, is great for scum.

Double Day is normally protown, because town directs both lynches. This is "Hey, it's only double-day if the first lynch is this one I pointed out." That's a fine power for scum to have - try to herd the town onto a free mislynch, and then look "confirmed" after!

And what would optimal scum play be? To designate the best townie that you can while still passing it off as "policy". That saves the REAL policy townies and gets you a free mislynch.

That being said, I admit I was assuming NS's play across ms.net was similar to my experience with him (town in Court, scum in Bomb Mafia, [redacted ongoing where he's dead].) I'll have to read Trader Mafia. If his play there is better than my experience, point conceded. I could swear you made a hullabaloo about how you were actually reading Court, though...

hitogoroshi is scum for calling Faraday town for a post that consists of nothing but a vote for a player who hitogoroshi is not voting for, and who hito has not even mentioned once all game, in a post in which hito does not provide his own opinion of quadz08.

Come to think of it, I think the only player hito has questioned all game is me, for pretty much the exact same reasons quadz did (my question being useless because obviously he was scum). Why was it more important to tell us that Faraday is town for voting quadz than that quadz is scum?

I don't think Quadz is scum. The answer in his 58 makes his nervousness feel null. I do think that burning political capital to see if someone scumslips is something townies do far more often than scum. Scroll to the post above Faradays (Quadz 44) and it makes more sense.

Also, "the only player hito has questioned all game" on page four? Really?

[hitogoroshi]

@hito - if you had to pick your top THREE players on this playerlist to policy lynch, who would they be?

NobodySpecial, Katsuki, singersinger. VV close fourth - singer just eeks ahead because of the whole "almost refused free win" in MoCo.

Just thought of something. sottyrulez, any flavor as for why a Priest(ess) of Troll is a miller?

[hitogoroshi]

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding you, but what do you mean, "burning political capital"? It's not as though Faraday played a clever gambit on quadz. From Faraday, a vote without explanation in response to a post is a complete null tell.

Political capital is basicially how much town will listen to you. You gain it by reputation, rhetoric, cases. You lose it by being scummy, flightly, uncertain.

It's a null

tell

for Faraday to vote without explanation, but it's clearly a loss in capital (e.g the more he does that the less you'll listen to him, boy who cried wolf). And all he gained from it was a chance to try to get a scum reaction from Quadz. I think Quadz reaction makes him look nullish, not scum, but I also think it's pretty townish of Faraday to be doing that kind of checking in the first place.

Stop thinking of it like double day and think of it like a Vig that requires town consent. How is that not protown? It's awesome because it checks back stupid ass Vigs while still giving the town extra kills. And it's definitely not a SCUM power.

Kills are good because they have a chance of hitting scum. Scum aiming the ability have a 0% chance of hitting scum. This does not seem like an especially difficult concept.

Mothrax is definitely in the bottom half of this player list, but only because this player list is absurdly stacked. I've played with him just in Moco, I

think

(if I've played with him elsewhere I'm not recalling it.) He started off poorly but picked up his game near the end.

Have you ever read a game where NobodySpecial is town? This is important.

[hitogoroshi]

This simply presumes I am scum and does not actually prove why this would ever actually be a scum ability. It's an extra kill. Scum don't get this.

Right, it doesn't prove that it's a scum ability. But you said that it's DEFINITELY not a scum power, and that's simply not true.

Not in reachable memory, actually. All the games I remember he was obvscum. Still, though, this line of Mothrax v Nobody Special irrelevant - it's likes saying, "I don't believe your cop claim because I would have investigated THIS person instead of THAT person!" Unless you think mothrax is a BAD vig shot and that you would rather let him live than kill him for free, then it's just a matter of preference. And it's my ability and I happen to prefer mothrax over Nobody Special.

Spoiler alert - he is obvscum as town too.

Still, I guess if you've never read a game where he's town I can understand why you'd prefer mothrax.

hitogoroshi, you've seen Faraday as scum before, right? Do you think he casts unexplained votes more often as town? See, from some players, I'd understand your POV that it might draw attention to them, but this is a complete null tell with Faraday.

Actually, come to think of it, not sure if I've read a game where Faraday is scum. We've discussed being town/scum enough that I feel have some idea, though.

Regardless, it's more than the unexplained vote. It's try to get quadz to scumslip and looking weird doing it.

It's not as though NS is SOOOOOOO much better that anyone who DIDN'T choose him is obvNSbuddy.

Actually, I think this is pretty nearly the case.

@hito - was it you earlier implying that we only got the double day on a mislynch? Reading AGM's post, I don't get that sense at all. Why did you say that? (unless I misread/misattributed something)

That was a response to the comment that roughly went: "It's not like Double Day benefits scum, so that wouldn't really be a scum ability." (paraphrased from Equinox) I was responding to that by saying if scum had that ability, it'd benefit scum plenty because the first lynch would be a guaranteed mislynch. Obviously, if AGM is town, the mothrax lynch has the usual 20%-ish chance of hitting scum.

---

Magua gets townpoints for his points on domain claiming. Thank christ there'll be someone checking my work on setup spec.

Magua:

Agree/Disagree with this statement: "When we discover which Domain has the most Worshippers tonight, we should take care to never Worship that domain again."

I was trying to trick Sotty into inventing flavor when, looking at the sample, there probably wasn't any. It almost seems like that happened, but the subsequent explanation about the passive ability "Trollspeak" makes sense.

Though, Sottyrulez - why not claim in your first post that you can't be neighborized?

Gamma is town, DDD probably is too (130). My townread on ooba is inversely proportional to how many Justice/Balance worships we see tonight. Off the table today, anyway.

[hitogoroshi]

Magua: Agree/Disagree with this statement: "When we discover which Domain has the most Worshippers tonight, we should take care to never Worship that domain again."

Agree. (I reserve the right to modify this depending on what information we get when someone flips.)

However, you should not rule out the idea that the scum have access to every domain to begin with.

Between them they might, sure, but it's likely they're all worshipping the domain of their best PR.

Obviously it could change with flips. But we have to draft out a N1 action plan

without knowing

the N0 worships, and it's gonna be a bitch. For now short metrics like "avoid the most worshipped domains" are what we want. We can get more sophisticated with more information. (We have to be careful about getting that information - I agree with you in that Tar probably has an ability specifically there to dick over massclaims. And, since massclaiming is often pretty powerful in lots-of-people-have-PRs game, it's probably a BIG dick over.)

unvote, vote: Parama

Stretching crappy reasoning too far. ("Basicially just posted his role PM for us?") Also keenly aware that if Magua is lynched and I'm nk'd town is down on most of it's setup speculators in a fairly complex setup.

@Hito: Sotty said she didn't want to give hints to other roles.

Is there a reason it matters?

It wastes a neighborize if you're targeted. I just feel like if I had a "can't be neighborized" in my role I'd claim it first post, y'know?

[hitogoroshi]

BAAAA
BAAAA
HITO YOUR AVATAR IS A LLAMA RIGHT?

ever heard of something called a "hyperbole"? yeah...

oh well if you've got a REASON for throwing out hyperbole for a crap case I'm all ears

p.s. setup speculation is a waste of time and that's a fact

I take it you'll be Worshipping randomly?

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

Sure. Why wouldn't I?

[hitogoroshi]

Gonna be a little spotty on posting next couple of days. I'm at my computer, but I'm moving back home 6am tomorrow and there's a lot of packing and such to be done first.

Don't like VV 206.

Ooba:

Do you think we *shouldn't* stay off whatever domain has the most worships tonight?

Don't like Sotty's 239 "Following it up with another huge wall isn't doing you any favors." Hard to explain exactly why - it feels more like a subtle threat than a legitimate request to stop walling (and for the record, I have nothing against Plumwalls. MoI walls can get kinda bad but they're manageable when he's active enough that they can be relatively short. they're a bitch on mondays though)

Don't like singers "Unvote. Probably going back to policy lynching NobodySpecial." I mean...before finishing reading the game, you think you're not going to find better? -_-

And for the record, while NobodySpecial is alwaysscum, there is ONE meta-tell on him that I have a decent degree of confidence in, and at least so far he's clean, so hey.

Don't like Parama calling out people for not liking walls (Katsuki) while simultaneously admitting to not reading them.

HATE this shit:

my vote feels sad. oh well ^.^

Worst post of the fucking game thus far, no contest.

If Parama flips scum Sottyrulez 302 links them as a probable buddy for disgusting amounts of coaching. "Oh Parama, if you change x and y about how you post, you probably won't get lynched. Also move your vote and look like a productive townie: just follow me."

Just throwing this out there: What if AGM is lying?

He's not. Could be scum (though I'm not as strongly opinionated about it, learning he's only seen you as scum) but I have every bit of confidence if we lynch mothrax the day continues on.

My lonely vote is a vote on scum :/
It's lonely but also confident.

"...but I don't really care if anyone else joins me"

Faraday makes a good point that lashing out in anger suggests mothrax-town.

MAGUA YOU BRILLIANT SON OF A BITCH. THAT BETTER BE A REAL DAYVIG.

Hito is a lot of setup speculation (which is fine, I enjoy it). I don't like his Almaster-is-scum stance, and I find cognitive dissonance between "Almaster's power is horribad for town" and his first post being "Let's policy lynch Nobody Special." However, I do like his calling Faraday town and his calling Parama scum.

I'm NOT saying Almaster's power is horribad for town. But Almaster said "THIS OBVIOUSLY IS NOT A SCUM ABILITY" and I was refuted that by saying it'd actually be a fairly powerful scum ability. It'd also be a decent town ability, not horribad at all. What IS horribad is suggesting the argument that is essentially "This would be a bad scum ability, so I'm conf. town".

Duplicity: For the record the reason there are few "conclusions" reached from setup speculation is because I'm not DONE yet. I want to make a single guide that can't possibly be missed so scum can't claimed they just didn't notice. Honestly, in this setup, the biggest boon of speculation won't be CATCHING scum - it'll be bullying scum off of optimal play. But progress is considerably slower here because I have to write NOT KNOWING the worship distribution, which means I have to write for all of them.

If you want conclusions, here's a sneak peak: We're avoiding any domain with more than one worship tonight. We're probably worshiping Justice and Balance if neither of them have any worships. But we're going to need to create two lists of roughly equal "net towniehood" (unless we're domain/worship claiming, which we probably shouldn't) because all piling on one of the two domains is bad news bears.

gassssssssssssp.
I was gonna ask you about why Duplicity-scum but PoE-wise it makes sense.

the fuck is this

Goddamn I know this is post is ugly but that's what happens in a game this fast and that's gonna continue to happen until I'm home and unpacked (saturday/sunday)

---

Let's Be Honest, You Didn't Read That: The TL;DR Corner

Parama's ISO 18 and ISO 19 are awful.

Faraday and mothrax are town. NobodySpecial is typical null with a few townie brownies for not infringing on my one meta tell on him.

singersinger and VV are looking bad but not Parama-bad.

investigators reference style thing (I need a snappy name!) is in the works but a nightmare to figure out

[hitogoroshi]

Sotty: Nope. Plum mentoined what I'm talking about in the post directly after that one.

[hitogoroshi]

The explanation I post should be clear on why I found Plum's walls scummy and it wasn't because "OMG WALLZ R BAD". Are you really trying to dispute otherwise?

~Sotty

I understand (but disagree with) the point on the Nicki wall. But your point on her second wall is just that "Parama is an easy target", which doesn't satisfy me at all.

And independent of any explanations, I just don't like the phrasing "isn't doing you any favors."

Oh, hey, hitogoroshi, while you're still here:

It wastes a neighborize if you're targeted. I just feel like if I had a "can't be neighborized" in my role I'd claim it first post, y'know?

Did you find their failure to mention this aspect to be scummy?

Eh, on reflection, not really. I personally would claim it in their first post same as Miller, but it'd only really be scummy to not do it if that WASN'T a part of the role and just something they made up later, and that just seems a little screwball without anyone claiming neighborizer.

[hitogoroshi]

gassssssssssssp.
I was gonna ask you about why Duplicity-scum but PoE-wise it makes sense.

the fuck is this

YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.
HERE HAVE A FREEBIE.

Spoiler: picture

Also see my post 376.

I have a couple've good "the fuck is that/the fuck is this" pictures but I'm a reaction picture purist so I like to save them until there are two worthy candidates in one post.

And okay, your 376 makes sense. Must've missed it my first time through? Apologies.

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

No, actually, it's not

completely

fucked. Gonna be even more difficult than it was before, though. And Magua's got it right that we should be keeping the details hush-hush so maybe no night action bit from me today.

Though I can say that probably the only Worships we should have tonight are people who themselves worship Justice or Balance and see that there is 1 or 0 worships in that Domain. 2+ = don't worship.

Oh, God, the pressure. (Hint: I'm town. And actually, you know, trying.)

Is this a tricksy little hobbitses way of trying to get me to mention what the tell is? NO DICE MISTER

(seriously though glad to see you actually kind of engaging with the game)

Magua ninja'd me as to why I'm sure AGM isn't lying about his ability. Too easy to test, 1:1 trades favor town. I'll also add that if, for some bizarre reason, I wanted to fakeclaim that ability while not actually having it, I'd pick a good player who's hard to read and say "I have trouble reading X, so let's pl them today right now!" to maximize the chance the lynch doesn't go through.

[hitogoroshi]

Magua ninja'd me as to why I'm sure AGM isn't lying about his ability. Too easy to test, 1:1 trades favor town.

Um, yeah, so did you really just now figure that out? You spent so much of your energy getting upset with AGM for being oh so scummy and now all of a sudden the turn-around "oh not he's clearly not scummy because of this reason that at least two people have already stated."

What? I didn't "just" figure it out. I have always, always, always assumed AGM is telling the truth that he has used a double-day ability on mothrax. My initial suspicion was that he is scum who chose a town to misylnch. Learning he's only seen NS as scum and didn't read Court has left me less certain.

hito clarify this for me

Though I can say that probably the only Worships we should have tonight are people who themselves worship Justice or Balance and see that there is 1 or 0 worships in that Domain. 2+ = don't worship.

By this do you mean only people that are justice/balance should be worshipping justice/balance or that nobody except justice/balance should be worshipping at all?

Okay. From a neutral ground-state, unless you have a non-cast ability that requires x worships, worshiping ANY domain is anti-town.

ooba's claim smells legitimate and is worth testing; however, there's a chance he's scum charging a mega-ability. I THOUGHT that the whole town could see the worships and help him out if there were no worships on justice/balance. (Scum could be WIFOM-ing by avoiding their best PR's domain N0 but I get a tingly feeling they played it straight. At any rate our goal is to bully them off of optimal play.) No Justice/Balance worships don't confirm ooba as town, but they help.

HOWEVER, now it turns out that the town doesn't learn every domains worship, like I thought. Assuming Minaj is telling the truth, anyway. This means that it'd be EVEN safer for scum to charge up ooba-scum and it's something we have to test. People worshipping Justice/Balance will be able to do this test and can help him out if the domains are clean. Everyone else is in the ground state of "worshiping is anti-town."

(posting during the musical section of Reck's show THAT I'M ON; let it not be said I'm not dedicated)

[hitogoroshi]

Do you have a reason for thinking that Justice/Balance are town other than flavour?
...
Because if Vi is anything like I think she is, there is scum in every domain.

Don't want to get too much in to this until tomorrow. But in brief: domains aren't unique, but domain combinations probably

are

, and those facts basicially dictate the whole game.

If there isn't significant worship of Justice and Balance shown tonight, I'm inclined to believe ooba.

Very much disagree with this because I think that most players will have casts but no 0 faith abilities (or maybe a few with useless ones like I had in WIZARDS) and that I don't think Vi balanced this mountainous-wise but I see what you meant in your last post.

Until we're making informed decisions, the average worship is going to benefit scum more than town. Ideally we'll be making informed decisions D2.

[hitogoroshi]

Unless I'm illinformed we have no real control over what mafia does worshipping wise, nor will we find out what they did thus speculating over what everyone 'should' do is merely a distraction from scumhunting. Correct me if I'm wrong.

We can get a decent picture of what they did as the game goes on.

The speculating isn't so much to augment our scumhunting. It's to STOP scum from pulling the optimal play with no repercussions. That's why I'm mostly going to assume they're playing it straight.

An example is testing for voting insanities in Stars Aligned III. The testing didn't CATCH any scum - but it stopped all of them from taking voting insanities. That's the same general principle of what we have to do.

Magua: I figured the daykill was fake at first, but as you went on I got a bad case of the hopefuls.

Let me think a bit on your worshipping plan. Obviously, people who can cast should cast, but I'm just not so sure about putting energy into a system we don't understand nearly as well as the scum do. Regardless, I'm going to

V/LA today until Sunday

as I'm packing up/moving out and when I get home I suspect there will be shenanigans after I unpack. Might post Saturday if I'm feeling anti-social when I return but don't count on it.

[hitogoroshi]

Magua's right on the money re: Quadz. Scum probably have one or two abilities they saved up to use N1, and then a killer. Scum quadz being one of these abilities, to neighborize someone who is probably the singular best person at reading him? yeahno.

N0 worship claim is probably fine, but I REALLY think town should be avoiding any other claiming, at least in the short term.

Also cool with Gamma's order, which puts VV next.

Magua, DDD:

Agree or disagree with this statement: "A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith."

DDD is almost certainly town for reasons I'm not sharing. Just accept it.

Parama is still where the votes should go.

Vote: Parama

I also don't like the VPB side of the VPB-DDD interactions. Getting someone to seek your approval is a great way to get a sneaky town read from them, and his early "AH. ALREADY FEEL BETTAH ABOUT YA MATE" seems a little artificial.

some townies: Gamma, Faraday, DDD, quadz, Magua, ooba (unless the Faith totals say otherwise)
some maybetownies: MoI, NS, plum, agm, ray

some scums: parama, VPB
some maybescums: sottyrulez, vv

---

Shot/Pwned/Inexplicibly mutated

Inexplicibly mutated by far strikes me as the most likely third party kill flavor. Suggesting a non-chaotic sk. Sadly can't read much into it read-wise - I'd be nervous of a cop as an anti-town regardless of where I was on their reads list.

Pwned seems like the most likely town-aligned flavor of the three, but what the fuck kind've townie would kill Equinox? Duplicity is easily the most likely vig target, but even he was pretty town. Ugh. Maybe scum have an extra kill they all jumped on? If kills are cheap enough that they can grab them with little to no town influence (e.g without needing to fakeclaim a town pr to get worshippers) that is the baddest of news bears. I'm just gonna hope one of those was a vig I guess. (don't actually let me know if you are a vig >>)

Worth looking into both duplicity and Equinox's scumreads:

Null - MagnaofIllusion, Debonair Danny DiPietro, ooba, Plum*, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, VP Baltar, Duplicity
Scum - quadz08, Parama*

VP Baltar: Fencesitting, lack of active attempts at scumhunting and extreme degree of fluff posting.
Hito: Excessive amount of setup specultion without any real conclusion reached from it, it reads as an attempt to seem contributive over anything else.
Plum: Has really only addressed a few players posts in the game, has shown intention to tunnel towards Parama without going into her reads elsewhere.
Quadz: Overdefensiveness when one vote was placed on him, lack of any real contribution.

Equinox seems the most likely scumkill of the three.

Oh. Hi, Parama.

[hitogoroshi]

so what, scum decided n0 "kay let's make sure quadz can get his neighborize off tomorrow. someone worship his domains"

???

if I was running serious chance of being a d2 mislynch I'd take the neighborize over the doc + possible jailkeep (and mina and ooba both smell lawful) if I thought it'd save me. I don't quite have a singer but Mina I've talked to on AIM enough.

I think maybe you're coming from the perspective of forgetting how fucking terrible it is being a groomed mislynch. when's the last time you've been misylnched?

[hitogoroshi]

No.
Fuck your setup speculation.
Scum VERY VERY EASILY could have decided to have 2-3 people worshipping spread out and 2-3 people not action and rely on the town to power them AND have the benefit of actually not fucking risking getting caught because of n0 shit.

Yes, this is what probably happened.

And the 2-3 no actioning are in all likelihood the GOOD prs. Guy with the permanent neighborize? Probably would be worshipping N0.

I don't know what the hell you're smoking that you or ANYONE ELSE would think that trying to save yourself over OTHER TOWNIER PEOPLE would be a good idea.
I've been mislynched exactly once, in powerful wizard mafia.

Obviously if Quadz knew 100% that he'd protect someone/not jailkeep them. Do you think you could call the shot N1? I know my guesses were wrong at any rate.

I've been mislynched recently (ongoing) and in the recently completed Storm of Swords I was a potential mislynch for a lot of the time. You don't just think "la de da just gonna herp around and hope for the best." You focus on showing that you're Town as quickly as possible.

quadz is screaming scum in every way possible and people all are SETUP SPECULATION SCUM DO THIS NO MATTER WHAT and AUGH.

Hypothetical. You have Quadz's claimed PM and you're scum who no-worshiped N0. What do you do N1?

[hitogoroshi]

I actually would've aimed at Minaj (naive on chaotic strongly implies a lawful cop) as scumquadz but regardless.

The point is, pretty much fucking ANYTHING would be better than scum neighborizing. To call him scum you have to say "I think he's lying about any useful cheap abilities". And yet,

simultaneously

, he's on the waiting half of the scumteam instead of the worshipping. All to neighborize someone...who can probably read him extremely well?

Also, let's say quadz has a redirect as his 4 faith ability instead of a vig.
Would you think it would be worth it as scum to have him no worship and hope that town give him enough to redirect, and if not he still has a neighborize backup action?

First off, vig seems better than a redirect, so surely this line of thought works even better assuming it really is a vig? that's a pointless line of thought tho so whatever, just making conversation

Regardless, the one thing I DON'T see the scum doing is dealing in maybes. If scum have a sweet 4 faith ability, they had one no-cast and four worships. Especially with how learning about faith turned out to work.

[hitogoroshi]

Okaaaay then let's say that quads shares a domain with the guy that has an awesome cast at 2-3. Assuming 5-6 scum would you have quadz no-cast since they'd both be able to get the benefits and it would make quadz look a little townier to neighborize someone?

That's a possibility, I admit. But I doubt the scum have any doubled-up domains. It's powerful in an unfun way (makes the optimal move really plain) and weak in a really annoying way (more completely safe domains - my personal suspicion is 6 scum evenly across all 12 domains).

MY POINT WITH ALL THIS silliness is that you're looking at one possibility and going that's what happened. When there are ALSO possibilities that could have quadz be a scum neighborizer who neighborized his wife for townpoints, and you're letting him off the hook despite his play being literally the scummiest in the entire game by a very very large margin.
I am not going to unvote him for a godamn POSSIBILITY, when every bit of his play looks like scum scumming it up with his scums who love scumming in the scumscum.

From what I've seen of Quadz, he couldn't fool his way out of an especially gullible paper bag. If he's scum, I'm sure singersinger will catch it soon enough. At any rate I see ZERO reason to rush the lynch like you've been screaming for.

Also, how the fucking HELL has quadz been scummier than Parama?

Erm. Are you trying to tell if Justice/Balance got juiced by scum? Because of ooba's claim?

Yes. There are only two types of people I see claiming a sweet PR from the word go:

• Townies
  
• Antitowns with a sicknasty, tricksy PR that requires a lot of faith

Basically, I think it's very unlikely that there's a PR SO GOOD a scum will risk asking for worships in thread yet simultaneously not good enough to get juiced from his buddies. Hence, ooba with low faith N0 is probtown.

So why Justice and Balance alone - because I asked for worship in those domains? Ideally we should figure out the entire spread of faith for every night to see how people are worshiping.

Full-full-claiming would be bad. Too much lost, not enough gained.

See above for why I'm asking re: you specificially.

That being said, it might be worth having every 4+ faith player to claim? Will think.

Faraday:

I suspect I know the answer, but how much thinking have you done re: the specific mechanics of this setup?

[hitogoroshi]

Oh @ Hito- Parama has been at least partially intentionally scummy. Although doing it to the extent he has is irritating, it's not nearly as scummy as someone who's been trying to look town and failed miserably.

Intentionally...scummy? In what fucking world do we say "Oh hey look, this guy is being a cheeky fuckin scumbag and not contributing, but who cares because hey, he probably meant to?"

Also, question for hito: why are you so willing to believe quadz's claim and immediately declare him as town, when you immediately declared AGM scum upon claim of a power which you equated with neighborizor:

76

Point I was making there is that confirmed ability use =! confirmed alignment. You have to evaluate the circumstances behind the claim.

AGM's claim looked pretty scummy at first simply because I couldn't imagine a survivor of Court not picking NS. By contrast, this claim is exactly what I'd expect from Quadz-town, and if I'm wrong I'm guessing singer will be able to figure it out. A speedlynch makes

zero

sense at this juncture.

I'm sure that is what they were planning to do....or it was his last ditch effort to ingratiate himself to singer to save his ass. P. sure scum weren't planning on him getting strung up and saved by a modkill on day 1. Additionally, he could have just used an ability instead of a cast. Funny how that never crosses your mind.

I've been ignoring the idea there are significant abilities in this game. I know the OP had one, and the thing Mina was talking about might've been an ability instead of a cast, but having significant abilities on either side is just silly when the entire point of the system is built around Casts.

I'm tired of this argument too. quadz should have been lynched D1 for his scummy ass behavior. He wasn't magically set up overnight to look scummier than he already is. You know who uses these kinds of arguments? Scum. How the hell do you think I got most of my team to survive so long in SAIII when they should have been lynched by like Day 5...by shouting Conspiracy! at every single turn.

Umm...you missed the context there. What I was saying there is that if I was in the position of likely mislynch N1, you BET YOUR ASS I'd neighborize with the person who can best read me over throwing out a random doc protect that could also be an RB, and anyone who says otherwise probably hasn't been a likely mislynch lately. Nothing to do with "Conspiracy!".

Well he certainly fooled you, so it doesn't seem like that stupid of an idea now does it?

If he's scum, he needs to fool singer forever. Why are we so intent on forcing the issue now?

@hito - has quadz done anything at all this game you find scummy?

Right on page 2 he had that scum lookin whatsit. Faraday called him on it before I did, his answer was nullish. After that, he's been in the spotlight and kinda blabbering. Hard to read. Seems overly sensitive to pressure so I wanted to see him scumhunt when he wasn't being so defensive. But I'm not the type of person to defend my null reads to get my scum reads lynched so I was pretty ambivalent about the Quadz wagon D1. Now he's claimed something almost certainly town and I think the push on him is bad and the RUSH on him ("quick, kill him before singer can get a read!") is worse.

Magua 864 is solid gold.

Fate, chill out. Let's make this a Bomb Mafia and not a Stars Aligned.

[hitogoroshi]

@Hito,

- While I think you have it right at 6 scum - I would wager that they are not in the same team. I have a kick-ass cast at 6 faith - assuming equal power ratios of {Cast usefulness/faith} for scum and town, 4-5 scum boosting would make it too unbalanced.

I really WANT to believe this. None of those kills really make sense from a town perspective (duplicity but that's reaching).

But I'm just not sure about multiple scumteams here. Let's say two 4man teams. One member from each needs to kill. So...one Caster, and only two worshipers? That just seems too..capricious. Like whether the scum gets power or not is so luck dependent.

Now if we get a scumflip suggesting two factions I'll dance for fucking joy because it'd be a lot easier to deal with than one big one. But my gut tells me one team.

- And since we're discussing setup, I think scum might be split on these lines - the "pwned" kill makes me think of scummers who generally frequent scum chat - more into intuition, lightheartedness vs traditional scum who uses posts of logic to manipulate people.
Scum chat Mafia - Fervor, Concision, Whimsy, Will, Justice, Syncretism\Solism
Old school Mafia - Balance, Austerity, Asceticism, Verbosity, Logic, Syncretism\Solism
I just cannot work in the "Inexplicably Mutated" bit into this theory .. "Shot" seems more traditional but why would a vig kill Nikki Minaj?

Uhh. This actually makes a lot of sense! 4/4/1 sk, lots of anti-town power but lots of crosskill potential.

Still having trouble grokking it with my previous but I can see it for sure. SK kills Minaj, one scumfaction kills duplicity, other kills Equinox. If nothing else this way I don't have to believe we have an awful vig.

- Also - just had a thought, I think each town domains will be composed of one domain in the first list and one in the second list because if town boosts a particular townie - say me (Justice + Balance) then both teams benefit to some extent, instead of it being lopsided.

This theory is pretty goddamn strong.

Leaving this for posterity in case I die:

If we have proof of two scumfactions (like one dead scumbag from each kind of proof), massclaim fucking everything.