Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[Magua]

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

I had actually sent Vi a PM about this this morning; have not gotten a response yet. Is this your reading, or is it verified somehow?

If it's the case that it's just a faith total, there's still a workable plan, the details of which should be obvious to hito but which shouldn't be made public until D2 to keep the scum from planning ahead. Assuming hito isn't scum, which I'm still doing.

@Parama:

k, just verifying. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm not regretting you dying even if you flip town.

[Magua]

Unrelated: You know how town Faraday thinks mothrax is? That's how town I think Nicki Minaj is.

[Nicki Minaj]

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

I had actually sent Vi a PM about this this morning; have not gotten a response yet. Is this your reading, or is it verified somehow?

If it's the case that it's just a faith total, there's still a workable plan, the details of which should be obvious to hito but which shouldn't be made public until D2 to keep the scum from planning ahead. Assuming hito isn't scum, which I'm still doing.

@Parama:

k, just verifying. I'm actually getting to the point where I'm not regretting you dying even if you flip town.

We PM'd Vi about it in pre-game. That was the response.

If the workable plan involves everyone claiming faith and domains and interpolating the faith for each domain that way, it's not a very good plan.

[Magua]

We PM'd Vi about it in pre-game. That was the response.

If the workable plan involves everyone claiming faith and domains and interpolating the faith for each domain that way, it's not a very good plan.

Given the 19-20 data points (players) we'll have over an average number of variables (domains) of 2, I disagree. I think it's a very good plan. *Especially* if scum lie.

But we can argue about that D2.

[Nicki Minaj]

While you're here, what do you think of Duplicity's case on VPB?

[Magua]

While you're here, what do you think of Duplicity's case on VPB?

I actually agree with his case on VPB; if I had to vote between VPB and Duplicity, I would certainly vote VPB at this point.

I definitely don't see the case as terribad as you do.

Distancing-Duplicity-scum voting VPBaltar-scum-partner also sort of implies VasudeVa-town. Do you believe that?

[VP Baltar]

Which parts of it do you think are good?

[Nicki Minaj]

Distancing-Duplicity-scum voting VPBaltar-scum-partner also sort of implies VasudeVa-town. Do you believe that?

I could see it. I haven't really been reading VV's posts too closely but nothing stands out there.

[Magua]

Which parts of it do you think are good?

Your push on quadz:

He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him. Does he always play defensively like this when he's town?

This reads as, "Here's scummy thing X...though I'll waffle about whether X means he's scum or not. I end by asking a question that I could answer myself if I cared enough to look."

Sottyrulez claiming miller is blah to me. Decent chance they are town, but they really need to be after the scum and get NKed for me to feel completely safe with that claim.

This is the same thing. This actually says nothing. Is "need[ing] to be after the scum" only something that millers should be doing? No, obviously not. This says the claim doesn't change your read on Sotty at all, but you don't give a read on Sotty or Sotty's posts. You just take this roundabout and kind of dirt-throwing way of saying Sotty is null.

You ask DDD if he thinks there should be a mass domain claim even though you soon follow that up with the fact that you think it's probably a good idea in #138. (This also includes a "I could look it up but I'm not going to"-type question.)

A bunch of fluffy posts. Yes, you could be sussing out Magna's alignment, or you could just be padding. I can't see the difference, and lacking any results one way or the other, I'm leaning the latter.

Of your reads, I agree on Gamma-town. I (obviously) disagree on Parama-town. I vacillate on Quadz-scum. And that's about the extent of your reads. Which is a problem, you having 28 posts and all.

In SA II, you were a big town leader and not scared of anything. Here you're playing your cards decidedly closer to your chest.

[VP Baltar]

I am playing my cards closer to my chest, which is intentional and what I think is best for the health of the game atm. Given the player list, I don't plan on rushing anything and I don't feel a need to be a 'big town leader.' In case you think it's not clear, I think it's very likely quadz is scum (dont' see how I've waivered on that at all). Hence why my vote hasn't moved. I find the points you're making kind of ludicrous to say the least. The sotty point is confusing at best...I'm stating I'm suspicious of their miller claim, but I will of course not judge them based on that alone. What's wrong wtih that again? Similarly, why shouldn't I ask DDD his opinion on domain strategy? He's a good strategist and I wanted to see what his response was.

Your argument is that I'm not being aggressive enough, to which I say, meh. Cooks in the kitchen and all that. I have my reads and I plan to follow them as I see fit, which I have been doing. Additionally, I could see several people in this game that your same argument would apply to (though maybe they have fewer posts), so why does that specifically make me scum?

[Magua]

In case you think it's not clear, I think it's very likely quadz is scum (dont' see how I've waivered on that at all).

It's *my* scumread on quadz that vacillates.

Hence why my vote hasn't moved. I find the points you're making kind of ludicrous to say the least. The sotty point is confusing at best...I'm stating I'm suspicious of their miller claim, but I will of course not judge them based on that alone. What's wrong wtih that again?

It's the difference between saying "Sotty's miller claim is null" and "Sotty is probably town but I'm not going to trust them until they're NKed (implying that I may lynch them if they're not)"

Similarly, why shouldn't I ask DDD his opinion on domain strategy? He's a good strategist and I wanted to see what his response was.

Because you don't voice your opinion, you ask him his, and when he gives it, you *then* voice your opinion that disagrees. The whole exchange feels like you already had an answer in mind you wanted to head towards, not that were actually soliciting someone's opinion.

Additionally, I could see several people in this game that your same argument would apply to (though maybe they have fewer posts), so why does that specifically make me scum?

Two things.
1: This is the scummiest defense ever. "Why me and not that other guy." I'm really surprised to see it from you.
2: You asked why I thought *you* were scummy. I answered with what I found scummy about *you*. Other people don't enter into that conversation.

[VP Baltar]

re:quadz - you said I was waffling, which isn't true.

I don't trust SottyR completely because of the miller claim. I'm not saying it's null...I'm saying it's something that people should always keep in mind unless some other info comes up that exonerates them or I get a super strong townread on them. I think that's reasonable, apparently we disagree though.

Because you don't voice your opinion, you ask him his, and when he gives it, you *then* voice your opinion that disagrees. The whole exchange feels like you already had an answer in mind you wanted to head towards, not that were actually soliciting someone's opinion.

I don't see how this is scummy either. Had I just agreed with him, then I could maybe see it as a stretch. I really don't get this bit at all.

1: This is the scummiest defense ever. "Why me and not that other guy." I'm really surprised to see it from you.
2: You asked why I thought *you* were scummy. I answered with what I found scummy about *you*. Other people don't enter into that conversation.

meh. I think dup's case is fucking awful for how generic and fluffy it is. You follow up his case with somewhat unrelated matters that are equally fluffy. The reason I say it could apply to anyone is because it could. I'm asking why you think it's stand out for me. Is it just because I was a leader in SAII? I think that's pretty limited meta to say the least. I think other people can certainly enter the equation when you're being that generic in your scumhunting.

[Nobody Special]

And for the record, while NobodySpecial is alwaysscum, there is ONE meta-tell on him that I have a decent degree of confidence in, and at least so far he's clean, so hey.

Oh, God,

the pressure.

(Hint: I'm town. And actually, you know,

trying

.)

Just throwing this out there: What if AGM is lying?

He's not. Could be scum (though I'm not as strongly opinionated about it, learning he's only seen you as scum) but I have every bit of confidence if we lynch mothrax the day continues on.

How/why are you so sure? Share with the class.

[Magua]

re:quadz - you said I was waffling, which isn't true.

I said *I* was waffling on quadz. Reread. You waffle on whether the first thing you call him out on is scummy (exact quote: "He really seems to be slow at loosening up here...though I admittedly have no experience with him"), but you never waffle with your vote on him.

meh. I think dup's case is fucking awful for how generic and fluffy it is. You follow up his case with somewhat unrelated matters that are equally fluffy. The reason I say it could apply to anyone is because it could. I'm asking why you think it's stand out for me. Is it just because I was a leader in SAII? I think that's pretty limited meta to say the least. I think other people can certainly enter the equation when you're being that generic in your scumhunting.

Do you think Duplicity is scum?

Do you think I'm scum?

How/why are you so sure? Share with the class.

Assume that AlmasterGM is lying about it being a double day if mothrax is lynched.
Assume that mothrax is lynched.

Almaster is now shown to be lying. What's going to happen?

He's going to be lynched the next day. What will he have gained? He'll have traded himself in a 1:1 trade for mothrax. Is that a good scum move? No, it is not. So the only rational move is to assume that the person isn't lying, because if they're lying, then they have made things worse for themselves, regardless of their alignment.

It's like claiming that you're a super-saint in lylo. You're just guaranteeing that you get lynched.

[VP Baltar]

Do you think Duplicity is scum?

Potentially, but he hasn't really done enough to get any kind of real read on. His case is crap, but that doesn't make him scum.

Do you think I'm scum?

I'm not particularly inclined to think so right now.

[sottyrulez]

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

Ninja? This is not just Miller, this is not being able to be accounted for by Watcher Tracker et al (and that besides the Neighborizer immunity). Hm. Not just a Miller claim indeed. Why didn't you mention the Ninjahood aspect of the power when you claimed Miller?

Now that I have the passive ability aspect of our role clarified to my satisfaction I will address this.

It's important to make the distinction between always returning

a negative result, and getting no result.

Frankly I'm surprised that you failed to make that distinction, and I don't like it...

Now to clarify. Watcher/tracker results targeting us will yield no result. Any other investigative powers that are designed to investigate anything but our allegiance will get no result. We are effectively untrackable, and unwatchable. Here's the other side of the coin though. Actions can be tracked to us, and actions we hypothetically target others with can also be watched.

So no, not a Ninja.

[sottyrulez]

^ Zach btw, the signature didn't go for some reason.

[hitogoroshi]

gassssssssssssp.
I was gonna ask you about why Duplicity-scum but PoE-wise it makes sense.

the fuck is this

YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.
HERE HAVE A FREEBIE.

Spoiler: picture

Also see my post 376.

I have a couple've good "the fuck is that/the fuck is this" pictures but I'm a reaction picture purist so I like to save them until there are two worthy candidates in one post.

And okay, your 376 makes sense. Must've missed it my first time through? Apologies.

You know, worship results are never made public. Every player is sent a PM at the end of the day with their usable faith for the night. So idk how you're planning on doing this.

No, actually, it's not

completely

fucked. Gonna be even more difficult than it was before, though. And Magua's got it right that we should be keeping the details hush-hush so maybe no night action bit from me today.

Though I can say that probably the only Worships we should have tonight are people who themselves worship Justice or Balance and see that there is 1 or 0 worships in that Domain. 2+ = don't worship.

Oh, God, the pressure. (Hint: I'm town. And actually, you know, trying.)

Is this a tricksy little hobbitses way of trying to get me to mention what the tell is? NO DICE MISTER

(seriously though glad to see you actually kind of engaging with the game)

Magua ninja'd me as to why I'm sure AGM isn't lying about his ability. Too easy to test, 1:1 trades favor town. I'll also add that if, for some bizarre reason, I wanted to fakeclaim that ability while not actually having it, I'd pick a good player who's hard to read and say "I have trouble reading X, so let's pl them today right now!" to maximize the chance the lynch doesn't go through.

[Equinox]

This thread, it actually ends!

I would probably get murdered in a very bad way if I posted my notes, so you can have a tl;dr instead. In order of decreasing strength:

Town - Gammagooey, Magua, Nicki Minaj, sottyrulez, Faraday, mothrax, Seraphim*, singersigner, AlmasterGM, Katsuki, Nobody Special*
Null - MagnaofIllusion, Debonair Danny DiPietro, ooba, Plum*, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, VP Baltar, Duplicity
Scum - quadz08,

Parama

*

Not pictured - RayFrost

The asterisks mean extra notes:

• Seraphim promised a reread, and I expect Seraphim to deliver on this or post more.
• Nobody Special having any activity at all is a slight town tell. What I want to see from him, however, are more stances.
• Plum is a solid null because, seriously, I wasn't going to read huge blocks of text when I was facing a 15-page (now 17) thread. Going to do an iso later.
• Parama is crossed out due to Magua's vig shot. He's here with an asterisk because I hate the stuff he's posted and his reaction to Magua's action, but the people saying he's somehow meeting town meta are confounding me, so he's on my to-meta list. Obviously, I'm waiting until after Vi posts before doing so; there are other people in line, and I've already blown about 6 hours here and need a break.

Speaking of the line, I'm rereading or metagaming Plum (iso, Day 1 game), quadz08 (town game), VasudeVa (town game), Parama, Nobody Special (scum game), and Duplicity (iso). I will also have to read the setup speculation posts in one go, since I have been skipping those in favor of focusing on other content.

Now you're probably sitting there thinking, "That scum list is really unimpressive." Indeed, it is. I have nothing to say to that.

quadz08 has a nice, fat wagon on him already, and he needs to post. I am therefore going to pursue a different avenue.

...or I was, until I realized I'd misread a post of Duplicity's. DUN DUN DUN. Sigh. I'm actually totally pooped right now after spending 6 hours on this thread, so I'm going to be lazy and throw Duplicity from the scum list to the null and to-read lists until I get untired, which will probably happen in a couple of hours.

Unvote

[Parama]

Hey Equi I'm not dead and I'm not going to be

[Faraday]

Can you elaborate on singer town?

[singersigner]

Magua ninja'd me as to why I'm sure AGM isn't lying about his ability. Too easy to test, 1:1 trades favor town.

Um, yeah, so did you really just now figure that out? You spent so much of your energy getting upset with AGM for being oh so scummy and now all of a sudden the turn-around "oh not he's clearly not scummy because of this reason that at least two people have already stated."

[Equinox]

So you're banking everything on Magua's daykill being fake, even though at least over half the game disagrees with your read of Magua? Uh... yeah.

Can you elaborate on singer town?

singersigner's laid bare her thought processes as she's reading the thread, and I'm getting an earnest tone from her posting. Her clarification for why she didn't immediately vote quadz08 is pretty much fair, as well.

"oh not he's clearly not scummy because of this reason that at least two people have already stated."

Eh? I was under the impression that all hitogoroshi was saying was that AlmasterGM wasn't lying.

[Parama]

if by some miracle he's town, it doesn't mean he really does have a dayvig <.<

[singersigner]

Yes...but note the hustle and bustle around page 5/6 or so where hito was basically looking for any and every flaw in AGM's logic, when the whole 1:1 thing should've been pretty obvious, imo.