Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote: Ant_to_the_max

His user title is Mafia Scum. He's obv.

[ReaperCharlie]

OH SHI-

[ReaperCharlie]

Note: I am

limited access

until Monday.

Samesies.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, scum team is Ragnarokio and ooba. Discuss.

[ReaperCharlie]

Protecting a scumbuddy with your favorite chainsaw, huh? *rev, revvvv*

Vote: Thor665

[ReaperCharlie]

I know nothing about flavor except that Miranda is in it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Meaning...

this

Miranda, of course.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC/Thor is null.

Why

are we null?

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah, what about guys like me who eventually intend to watch the show, maybe? Sheesh.

Think of the children.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC/Thor is null.

Why

are we null?

Your "x&y are scum, discuss" post is something both town and scum do.
Overreacting to it is something both town and scum do.

What do you think of the two people I mentioned as being scum and/or scummy?

What do you think of Thor, overall?

[ReaperCharlie]

How could anything, uh, tickle her pickle if, uh, she's a girl... and stuff?

[ReaperCharlie]

I stand thoroughly corrected. Please forgive me, I forgot.

*goes off to study internets*

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm back in town. Huzzah!

[ReaperCharlie]

MarchHare, resize this and use it for your av, I'd love it:



In other news, all the bickering is zZzZzZzZzZzZzzzz.....

I'm gonna sit and watch for a while... *gets out popcorn*

[ReaperCharlie]

I would expect Ythan to be playing better.

@RC - how about you wagon with me on the player who claims RVS evidence but decides it's pro-town to hide it while also deriding a RVS case. Something is gakked up in there.

Alright here we go, now we've got a good wagon, ladies and gents.

Unvote; Vote: danakillsu

(completely unrelatedly, but for good reason based on secret tells)

trollface.jpg

[ReaperCharlie]

trollface.jpg

...am I being trolled?

The man's a genius...

[ReaperCharlie]

Unvote; Vote: Thor

WTF is this shiznit. As soon as I unvote Thor for lulz, all of you guys pile on his wagon?

When he flips scum, I want town cred for having started his wagon. Boom shakalaka.

@MBF: Whether or not I contribute to mafia games is not the reason for any contempt of me on these forums.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, my patented WagonAnalysis™ 3000 dictates that the most probable scumbuddies on this wagon are:

Ragnarokio
PeregrineV

[ReaperCharlie]

Unvote: Thor.

We want more Thor, not less Thor.

@ReaperCharlie- Your machine's either 50% or 100% busted.

A) Please explain your unvote.
B) Please explain your comment "more Thor, not less Thor".
C) If you don't want Thor gone, then... why were you voting for him?
D) What reason do we have to believe you that my WA™ 3000's broken?
E) It's maintained on a bi-weekly basis. Ergo I know it's in top form.

[ReaperCharlie]

*reciprocally buddies up to Thor665, in fain hopes of not getting stabbed in the back tonight*

...

*thinks twice... realizes it's probably not gonna work... but tries anyway*

[ReaperCharlie]

MH you're not listening. I'm on the town side of the park now. Voting me is a death wish.

Also, reaction testing is tech but not right now. We need moar Thor votes for great justice.

Unless we want to PV it up, which is also fine by mua.

[ReaperCharlie]

This is so feeble and contrived it's ridiculous.

Unvote. Vote: ReaperCharlie.

You may have been here longer than Ythan but you clearly haven't read much ReaperCharlie. That post looks fairly typical of him to me. (Not intended as a slight, RC.)

Slight not taken, because that post IS fairly typical of me: It gets its point across, asks useful questions, illustrates a point, and injects some YMMV humor, all rolled into one nice neat little package.

Semper Fi Mac.

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, and one more thing. I happen to know who MH's main is, and he's got plenty of experience with me.

He's just being a dumbtard and reaction testing, and I'm calling his bluff, like everyone else has failed to do.

You know what they say: The privileges of knowing things...

[ReaperCharlie]

@ PV. Answer my questions too, dorshbag!

[ReaperCharlie]

Unvote: Thor.

We want more Thor, not less Thor.

@ReaperCharlie- Your machine's either 50% or 100% busted.

A) Please explain your unvote.
B) Please explain your comment "more Thor, not less Thor".
C) If you don't want Thor gone, then... why were you voting for him?
D) What reason do we have to believe you that my WA™ 3000's broken?
E) It's maintained on a bi-weekly basis. Ergo I know it's in top form.

Maybe this will ring a few bells.

[ReaperCharlie]

LOOOOL I missed it.

I am ashamed.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hahahaha I just failed so hard.

Omfg

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm going to rip your helmet-wings off and shove them down your throat.

[ReaperCharlie]

Reaper, does this ring any bells? C'mon, if you're pressuring someone at least pretend to read their posts while you're faking scum hunting

@RC - considering you know MH's prime - what do you think of the catch I have on him. Is that normal or not in his meta and do you find the hypocrisy of his position scummy, or even hypocritical?

I do not see it as being very scummy, no.

Actually, I do the same thing, and quite often.

[ReaperCharlie]

EP is probably town, but is wrong on Ragna and Peregrine.

I approve of this post.

But I agree that MoS needs moar pressurez, at least if this Thor thing ain't goin choo choo rightnow.

Soooo

Unvote; Vote: Mastermind of Sin

[ReaperCharlie]

Hey, good posting, ooba.

I didn't see that dana went out of his way to call the wagon "random".
Funny enough, that's just like the scum-dana I know. Super awesome.

Scum so far are: Thor665, danakillsu

Count it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Looking for town cred while calling yourself out on it = zZzZzZzZzzz

I know you're better than this, Thor. I've played/watched games with you before.

So tell me. Why do YOU think dana is scum? Or is your vote hollow?

[ReaperCharlie]

Looking for town cred while calling yourself out on it = zZzZzZzZzzz

I know you're better than this, Thor. I've played/watched games with you before.

So tell me. Why do YOU think dana is scum? Or is your vote hollow?

How about you answer this yourself?
All I've seen from you is meta-bullcrap that you haven't even explained. My friends seem to like to call me scum when I actually play games with them, which I find kind of strange.

Maybe it's because you're obvscum.

So tell me. Why do YOU think dana is scum? Or is your vote hollow?

Totally hollow - but nobody is coming in on MarchHare really so I'm back to fishing for reactions. You just called dana and me a scumteam - why wouldn't you want to hop on him even if it's with his bussing buddy?

Why make a vote that's totally hollow, instead of voting for who you think is scum?

I'm already voting for scum, why would I need to vote for other scum?

[ReaperCharlie]

Hi, Ragna.

[ReaperCharlie]

Sup?

[ReaperCharlie]

Sup?

Not much. Just trying to figure out what this thread is here for. I think it's some sort of game or something.

I think I agree with you, but I'm kind of trying to figure out why more people aren't playing with us.

I wish more people would post more often.



Also, back on topic:

[ReaperCharlie]

EBWOP: Yes. Strahovski at the top of the page was a good idea.

I concur, good sir. That was 100% :goodposting:!

You have earned your way onto my NOT FOR LYNCHIN list, until at

least

Day 3.

Now I have to gooooo download that show. Ahem.

[ReaperCharlie]

[insert snarky comment here]

[ReaperCharlie]

OK GUYZ GREAT PLAN.

LETS ALL

START

LURKING UNTIL MOS

STOPS

.

K READY? GO

[ReaperCharlie]

D) What reason do we have to believe you that my WA™ 3000's broken?

WA 3000 = WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA...

All I hear is you crying.

[ReaperCharlie]

MarchHare. Alliance w/me in this game? Yes/No.

MoS is also invited. mikeburnfire and Thor are not.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ooooh. I'm scared.

You're just butthurt that you're not invited to the party.

[ReaperCharlie]

What makes you a townie? Hmm?

[ReaperCharlie]

Describe what reasons I should believe that you are a townie, over my overwhelming feeling that you are scum.

[ReaperCharlie]

I have no idea at this point.

Do YOU think MoS is town?

[ReaperCharlie]

Perhaps if you guys didn't spam up the topic so much, it would be worth MoS's time.

This.

Not sure myself, but

really annoying if he is going to actually use this as an excuse.

This.

[ReaperCharlie]

Describe what reasons I should believe that you are a townie, over my overwhelming feeling that you are scum.

I barely like to make cases about who is scum, I have very little desire to make a case for myself being town. I would point out your reasons for suspecting me scum are gak and hooey, and I don't even know what they are - but that's as far as I'm willing to carry you.

Ant can join you in the scumboat.

I actually want to kill over half the playerlist now.

This is not happy/fun times.

Bolded above should be your first clue that you're wrong.

Gak and hooey is my playstyle. Don't like it, replace out.

Who all's in the scumboat at this point? I'd like to know.

[ReaperCharlie]

No, don't get me wrong. I totally agree about upping the game quality

usually

being better for town overall. In theory, it would be always vice usually. But I also think that blurring the lines is a perfectly acceptable way to out scum who want to look like they're participating in a sausage slapfest without providing any useful information, and subconsciously, they may give away clues to motivation that townies would not give.

So my stance is that effective scumhunting can take place at almost any level of game quality, barring outright lurkage/replacements galore.

I can full claim if you want, but I usually prefer to save that for later when it's more dramatic and less of a "WTF why is he already claiming" moment for everyone else. In the meantime, however, I guess you'll just have to put up with my G&H™ DUB Edition for a bit longer.

I'm not saying you should scumhunt better either, per se. I'm saying that scumhunting isn't just taking everyone who's giving off scum vibes and throwing them into the scumbucket, like you're doing. That hampers your ability to actually find scum, more than anything else. If your list was a "people who have committed tells" list, I'd be a lot more agreeable to everyone on that list being on that list.

However, I find that reading the game with a scum bias from so many people leads me to second-guess my instincts more often than not (at least up to 80%, with over half of the player list feeling scummy), and that's never good for deciding who is scum because at that point you just start becoming desensitized to your gut feelings, and you begin to listen to whoever has more charisma in the game, or seems to make the better points. And that's when the skill of the scum team comes into play. If they have what it takes in terms of charisma to change your mind, or even have one slight little claw into your mind to make you doubt yourself, you'll usually pick wrong in LyLo. I could even use Newbie 1059 as an example. The only difference is that it wasn't you that made the final mistake.

As far as the Alliance goes, you're now 100% invited, after this last posting exchange.

[ReaperCharlie]

Very well.

[ReaperCharlie]

ALRIGHT DANA

I still think that your case on MarchHare is invalid, but I can understand where you're coming from a little now, and you don't seem so scummy anymore, so I'm going to drop this one before it gets needlessly convoluted.

Backtracking, eh?

[ReaperCharlie]

ReaperCharlie, do you have the same alliance meta as SpyreX?

Not sure; what's his?

Technically it's possible, but I have my own version of everything I do.

You in or out?

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm pretty sure he only calls for alliances when he's town.

Well, I'm town, so... I guess yes?

[ReaperCharlie]

Okay, RC, I'll play along on the condition that I may backstab you when it tickles my fancy.

You may. That is the point of an Alliance, isn't it? To backstab each other?


MoS, can you please read the thread and give us some reads? Your posts have been generally contentless thus far.


Ant's #302 was cool and pro-town. You are invited to the Alliance. Please confirm or deny your membership in your next post.

[ReaperCharlie]

Alliance Status:

Current members:

ReaperCharlie
MarchHare

Current rules:

No voting any other Alliance members
Vote how the Alliance tells you to vote

[ReaperCharlie]

@RC - The Town Alliance looks like one scum, and one questionable. I'm out.

That's the entire point. There are supposed to be players of mixed levels of perceived town-ness, so that everyone keeps a healthy level of suspicion.

Also, more members = stronger town, in every single game I've played. Last game I ran an alliance in (usurped, actually, after I showed the leader to be scum and he was daykilled by a third-party) was a large, and we got a 9-1 endgame in which I correctly pegged the final scum out of 10 players, for the glorious win.

If you are town, join. You won't regret it. If you are scum, you should still join, because it increases my chances of winning!

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, MoS...


@EP: No. Whoever asks to join the Alliance is auto-denied. But why do you want to join the Alliance?
Please wax eloquent on this, I will not accept an answer like: "*shrug* I thought it would be cool"

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm sorry but my answer looks something like "*shrug* I thought it would be cool"

I've never seen an alliance in a mafia game and I thought it would be fun.

/facepalm

"Don't make me destrooooy you."



...

Also, was just ISOing dana because he's scummy as heck.

Tell me his ISO posts #4 and #5 aren't completely scummy and contradictory.

Thor is acting town now. Are we done with the random wagon on him yet?

Bad wagon.

Please wax eloquent to me on why you are pushing it.

How the hell is "Bad wagon" a dodgy answer?

He's not scummy.

It's a bad wagon because he's not scummy.

The objective is to lynch scum. Therefore, lynching players who are not scummy is bad.

This is not a hard concept.

There's no particularly good lynch at this point in time. We are five fucking pages into the game, two of which are almost exclusively one-on-one interactions.

He really is doing little other than attempting to derail weak wagons, despite admitting that all wagons will be weak at this stage in the game. I rest my case.

SEE WHAT HE DID THERE?? lol

And now *I* rest *MY* case.

Open and shut, fellas.

Unvote; Vote: danakillsu

[ReaperCharlie]

Since I am not yet assured of the intentions of RC, I can't fully agree with his case on Dana, although I might be interested in hearing more.

EP is sounding remarkably reasonable. And, another point of posting is to generate conversation, not wait until it is turned to you.

Unvote. Vote: Mastermind of Sin

My intentions are to lynch scum.

Also, you misspelled danakillsu.

[ReaperCharlie]

UNVOTE: MoS
VOTE: Danakillsu

Ahahahaha. This is the most cowardly vote I've seen in any game of mafia. You apparently didn't think strongly enough that I was scum to vote until someone else agreed with you. Nice one.

Attacking somebody who sheeps someone else's case onto him? Check.

@ ReaperCharlie
Yes, I said that Thor was town and asked if the random wagon was over. That's not an attempt to derail the wagon, it's a challenge to people to explain why it's not random or get off it. No one felt like doing the former.

That was clearly not your original intention.

All you have to do is read your post (why haven't you quoted it? hmm?) in order to see that your intentions were, which were clearly "i THINK this wagon is random, but it's making me nervous because it's actually on my buddy. lets move on people.. *shifty eyes*". I dare anyone to tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.

And, another point of posting is to generate conversation, not wait until it is turned to you.

Confirm Vote: PeregrineV

1. There is nothing scummy about the sentiments in that statement.

2. Confirm votes only come from stupid tunneling townies (and I know you're not stupid by any stretch) or by scum who are trying to redirect attention, which brings me to

3. Stop trying to deflect attention from the dana wagon, which is clearly awesome and pro-town.

tl;dr: You're all set to hang too, that is, if you don't vote with the Alliance. I've got my eye on you, Mr.

Okay, I've been doing some iso work, and came up with this

PeregrineV

#0-4: Says nothing serious that I can tell. Unvotes Thor to keep people from hammering, supposedly, which wouldn't happen at that point anyway.
#5: Says he voted for pressure on Thor, which again makes little sense considering he said "but what about the beard?" when he voted him, which puts no pressure on Thor at all. This is ignoring the obvious fact that Thor is an experienced player who would not be intimidated by a large random wagon.
#6: Waffles on a Ragnarokio read.
#8: Gives an opinion that would have no great effect on the game anyway and feels the need to qualify it with "I may be wrong".
#9-10: Votes ReaperCharlie, which he seems to think is a joke, too. At best, it's a vote for someone that he's not happy with, not someone he thinks is scum.
#12: Basically admits he still has no scumreads and half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game.
#13: Votes MoS without giving a reason as far as I can tell.

Dat bad.

vote: PeregrineV

This is a classic scum ISO case, which hearkens to Andrius's ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE iso case in SpyreX's PW Mafia mid-last year.

Bad things in this iso include: Complete nitpicking of points so minor they shouldn't even be mentioned, calling people out for scumtells that don't exist, using phrases like "half-heartedly non-commits to a reread of the game" which is obviously framing the situation in a favorable light to your case, and attempting to exude an aura of confidence even when under obvious duress, which is exactly what Andrius was doing (or at least attempting to do).

Also, why do you feel the need to do a PBPA of someone this early into the game? WHY?

No wait, don't answer that; I'll answer for you. It's because you're trying to divert attention away from your own 100% awesome wagon, and your prob-scumbuddy CDB is doing the same.

I mean, Andrius's PBPA was worse, obv, and I lynched him for it. But this one is still very terrible and I'm interested as to why CDB ignored it and instead confirm-voted on someone who's not that scummy in comparison.

Bad form, CDB. Bad form.

My intentions are to lynch scum.

Also, you misspelled danakillsu.

Good to hear- I look forward to it.

It was a short version of Danakillsu.

No. The joke was that you voted MoS, and I said you misspelled dana.

Because you were supposed to be voting for dana. Duh.

But jokes are not funny if you have to explain them. So, my bad.

There is no D in danakillsu.

Hello, worthless post.

lol@ Dana, I merely forgot to place my vote earlier. There's no way for me to prove this, but this has little to do with RC agreeing with me.

Also, it seems you're just going after easy lynches. I've played with Pere a good bit and this is normal town play from him.

I don't recall ever agreeing with you. Can you point that out to me?

Also, I've seen much better town play from PeregrineV before, and I find myself relatively underwhelmed.

I'm pretty sure he only calls for alliances when he's town.

As far as RC, Harry Potter Mafia was one game I can remember where RC set up an alliance as scum.

*High-fives ooba*

And what a glorious victory that was. You're welcome.

I also feel it is important to point out that that was a very special case, and was the exception to the rule.

Whole point of Alliances is not to establish trust, it's to remove cleavage among players and establish a (hopefully town-driven) voting bloc. The more players that are in it, the more likely the town is to win, because there are more town players. But this doesn't mean there shouldn't be scummy people in it. Why? Because forcing scummy people to vote with the town is an awesome idea. So if you have any questions, comments, concerns, etc, feel free to voice them.

Scum

Ant_to_the_max
* energetic Penguin

What's scummy about AntTTM?

Town

danakillsu
Ragnarokio
ReaperCharlie
CDB

Hmmm... why is CDB town?

Wait, why is **DANA** town? 0_o

Do you think my attacks on dana (and more recently, CDB) are completely erroneous and town-on-town? If so, what are the earmarks of a town-on-town fight herein? Your quick response is coveted.

Also dana, why did you choose Per over ep?

I guess I have to admit gut is involved. But also, there's the fact that EP is willing to attack me despite the way it looks, and that seems pretty town to me.

Despite the way

what

looks?

--

@ Everyone: What do you think of dana's contradiction in ISO #4-5? What do you think of my subsequent "case" + vote?

[ReaperCharlie]

Did you literally just tell me how to post. Get out.

/cyberbob

[ReaperCharlie]

MoS, can you please read the thread and give us some reads? Your posts have been generally contentless thus far.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ PV: If it's a quote, put quote tags around it, and attribute the quotes properly. Nobody wants to try to discern things you've said vs. things others have said, and nobody likes your pretty colors.

P.S. Succinctness is pro-town.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ PeregrineV

I don't want anyone voting RC

because I don't believe he's scum.
Voting RC is not "agreeing with me". It's actually doing the opposite.
How what I've said makes your sentence scummy would, I think, be plain to see. If you say "Maybe you'll convince me to vote him again." and convincing you to vote him is not something I want to do, you're misrepping my purposes. If you're my top scum candidate, you're trying to get me to do something scummy by persuading you to vote someone else, which has no pro-town motivation. And back to this:

But you also have to realize that since I know I'm town, his agrument look pretty reasonable. Of course, I naturally distrust everyone until they're dead, but knowing my role, I would be more inclined to see his side over yours.

Of course, others may do the same depending on how they already view the players involved. So, it may stick.

This is DEFINITELY saying that you have to believe

I'm scum.

Let's look at what happened here.
1) ReaperCharlie calls me scum, partially because of the way in which I called you scum.
2) I tell him that his points aren't going to stick because they don't use logic. Context will pretty clearly tell you that I'm saying his efforts to make me look like SCUM are not going to work.
3) You say why you're inclined to take his side. Your main reason is the town role you say you've been given. You say OTHERS MAY DO THE SAME, AND IF SO, THAT

IT MAY STICK

. In other words, if people take the same path you have, they will believe RC's arguments and think that

I'm scum.

I dare you to try to retcon your way out of that one, cause your words are pretty plain to see. So I ask you again: What about you being town and others being town WOULD make you AND them believe that RC is right and

I am scum

?

FTFY

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, it's never been so cheeky and obvious before, but you DO admit you're scum with relatively the same frequency throughout all your posts, in one form or another.

[ReaperCharlie]

Unvote; Vote: MoS

[ReaperCharlie]

Aaaandddd... Thor goes up a notch in my town-book. *notes it down*

Wanna join the Alliance? Please confirm or deny in your next post.

Alliance Status:

Current members:

ReaperCharlie
MarchHare
Ant_to_the_Max

Current rules:

You can leave whenever you want, but don't expect any invitations back
No voting other Alliance members, duh; vote how the Alliance tells you to vote
Nobody is strictly IN CHARGE; it's more of a communal thing/popular opinion

[ReaperCharlie]

Dude, I've been in one game with an alliance and the alliance helped scum win. Could you give me some references for 'successful alliances' (more than one). I still don't see the big advantage to it that isn't intrinsically possible through just getting town reads and discussing your thoughts with them in thread.

Werewolf: Wisborg Asylum - was started by scum, still had an amazing pro-town effect after I investigated the leader (SpyreX) and found he was scum, then got him DK'd by a rival scum group.

To those who are averse to the idea of an Alliance, why? Because you weren't invited, or because you only think they're helpful for scum, etc? I don't know

...but

Alliances are extremely pro-town, and there is a huge net town benefit.

First, what is an Alliance?

1.We all vote together. That means we all vote the same person, but we have to agree amongst ourselves who that person will be. Once we do that, it forms a blockvote effect that is pretty much unstoppable because nobody else can "control" our votes through manipulation, because we already have a standing agreement with each other regardless of alignment. This entire idea is based on blind trust and a good-sized voting bloc.

2. We can vote to invite new people into, or kick people out of the Alliance. This includes me, even though I'm "starting" it. I mean, as a non-Alliance member, people still CAN vote with the Alliance if they wish, but obv they don't have to.

3. The Alliance gets pared down in size as the game does. Should be slightly less than half, if even that large. This ensures the maximum amount of helpfulness, usefulness, and trustability. It becomes like a game of Weakest Link or Survivor. People get voted off the Alliance because they're the weakest link. Goodbye!

4. Remember, the main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.


To help out with how this looks in practice (and so people can see arguments for or against), I'll go over some parts of the game I mentioned above, in which I was first part of an Alliance, and later led it. I'll include a few quotes from either side of the argument, either pro-alliance or anti-alliance. Guess which side was which.

Town + Pro-Alliance (mostly me):

Ok easjo, I don't trust people in this alliance any more than you do. I was suspicious of Fate yesterday, and I am still suspicious of SpyreX and Merkabah. But as Merk said, the alliance IS a good tool. I'm certain that even if there are scum in the alliance (which there probably are), that they will either be forced to commit anti-scum actions for the sake of appearing town, or they will be exposed at some point. From what I can tell, the only downside to the whole idea is that we get less discussion time before lynching scum, which is not good.

I am ready to live or die by this alliance.

bitch plz.

the alliance is ensuring us the win, regardless of scum infiltration

You are supposed to auto-vote anyone I vote for. That's the whole point of the alliance.

When MME flips scum, then we can talk about whether or not the alliance is getting us anywhere.

Savvy?

Dear The Alliance,

I want to be in your pants.

Sincerely,

xRECKONERx

the Alliance is only so good as we're all town, and since we have no way of knowing that, there could easily be scum chilling with us.

This has been proven wrong multiple times thus far in this game.

Regardless of the presence of scum in the alliance (though obviously not desirable), the alliance itself is pro-town.

Scum + Anti-alliance:

You're STILL going with that Alliance shit?

No, it is not protown to maintain this alliance crap.

Let's say you blockvote the alliance all the way up to 3p LyLo. What are you going to do now? Nothing else but putting down a random vote as those 3 players will have the perfect excuse for being on every mislynch and every correct lynch there has been in this game. You're taking out scumhunting or a lack of out of the equation in a situation wherein you will need it the most.

Putting up or sustaining an alliance at this point is antitown. Just saying.

A few things to note:

- rcharlie only started flailing his arms and wanted a wagon on me after I dismissed his alliance once more
- several anti-alliance people died (lowell comes to mind)
- rcharlie has been too eager to have this alliance for 2-4 days already and is way too eager to be the one controlling it
- despite rcharlie having said that we should scumhunt now instead of relying on dreams, he still wants to blockvote, which imo contradicts that statement of his

Do with it what you will, but the alliance has been useless from since crypto was lynched. And I don't like rcharlie leading it (or thinking that he does) and it is clear he only wants it around to his own benefit.

Vote: reapercharlie

Regardless of my alignment, your alliance is antitown, reaper. Leading it like that is horribly antitown of you and you should have been lynched or suspected over it a hell of a lot sooner. I'm surprised that you even got a horde of townies together, but then again, they all were thinking what andy thought and were only concerned about their own survival. Lowell was right. The townies in the alliance have lost all common sense.

And here's one more by me-town:

Blockvoting does not negate scumhunting. It facilitates joint scumhunting between remaining known Innocent or probably Innocent members. Such is the nature of an alliance in the first place, to cut down on arguing between people who are confirmed or near-confirmed.

And I don't want a wagon on you because you're anti-alliance. I could care less if you're anti-alliance. Andrius and xReck have both said "enough of this alliance bs" too. It's not about that, and it seems pretty clear that you're using that as a straw man for my actual argument on you.

By the way: It's a given that there will be anti-alliance players. Do you honestly think I'm scum and NKing each and every anti-alliance player in systematic order, JUST so that I can have my cake and eat it too? And it is ALSO a given that some of the people that died would have been anti-alliance as well... quite a few people have died.

I have done my utmost to make sure that the least amount of pro-town people possible have died, and I think we've done a pretty good job of that so far. We've got nine scum dead so far, and only six townies. That's unprecedented.

And look at the endgame ratios:

ReaperCharlie - survived and won the game
Deer - survived and won the game
Nachomamma8 - survived and won the game
Shattered Viewpoint - survived and won the game
Andrius - survived and won the game
inHimshallibe - survived and won the game
xRECKONERx - survived and won the game
Dry-fit - survived and won the game
ZazieR - survived and won the game

My Milked Eek - lynched by Alliance

So really:

The only GOOD argument against an Alliance is that it's not playing the game the way it's meant to be played.
But you could also argue that Mass-claiming is the exact same thing, and yet Mass-claiming happens all the time.

In the same way that scum try to avoid Mass-claiming, scum don't like the formation of Alliances.

MoS has not done a single real thing all game and has not been trying to hide it.

That's a town tell, in my opinion, but it's annoying.

I move for either a policy lynch or a forced mod-replacement if he doesn't improve.

Though I have done the same thing before, i.e. POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA.

I was able to peg 2/3 scum when they tried to lynch me for it. It was super lulzy.

Still though. My vote's staying on MoS cause I know

I'm

not scum, and he's being GRRRR.

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, my next 9 or 10 games were either mini's or I was scum. Simply put, I got out of the habit.

This is me trying to get back into the habit. I had a terrible losing streak when I stopped... so.

(ninja'd. this is @ thor)

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm against the alliance pretty much just because.

This is the attitude that kills towns. That's like saying you're against Mass-claim. Did you even read my post?

It has at least helped to further prove how town Thor is, though.

That is only one of the many benefits Alliances have. They have a tendency to bring town-vibes from actual legitimate townies, straight out of the woodwork. And conversely, they force people to act in a pro-town way EVEN IF THEY ARE SCUM. I don't happen to think Thor is scum any more either, though I did earlier.

Please actually read my post CDB. If you have any other questions about how it would work, or reasons why you think it wouldn't work, please post them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Seriously, it's a freakin' awesome idea. Ask Aziz, he knows!

[ReaperCharlie]

Be that as it may, MoS, I was not comparing them as mutually always pro-town. Only Alliances are always pro-town. But even so, you'll find by searching statistics that in mass-claim scenarios, a good number of them end up in town wins, unless there have been false investigation results shared with the town somewhere along the line.


@ CDB: The differences between a naturally occurring alliance and an artificial Alliance are multiple:

1. Natural alliances are based on legitimate trust, based on past actions, whereas artificial Alliances are based upon a simple principle and a mechanic.
2. Natural alliances don't require that their members all participate in bloc voting, whereas artificial Alliances are almost solely based upon this premise.
3. You don't have to have confidence in the alignments of the people in the Alliance. You have to have confidence in ratios and proven performances.

That last one is probably the most important when it comes to coming to grips with "approving of" an Alliance.

You don't have to know, or really even have a clue, as to the alignments of the Alliance. As long as the overall RATIO of town:scum is high (i.e. right now it's most likely 10:3 or 9:1:3; not so sure about 2:2:9 but its an outside possibility), the overwhelming majority of players are town. Therefore, if certain members within those numbers can put aside their suspicions of each other momentarily and work together, then much good can be accomplished.

It cuts down on bickering within the group, and increases cohesion. Those are both pro-town results.

[ReaperCharlie]

Cool to see a little more action in this game. I will always be against alliances because they make Mafia lamer and don't help the town.

You have obviously not read any of my posts, then.

Just keep skimming... just keep skimming.

Just keep skimming, skimming, skimming.

[ReaperCharlie]

@RC- Do you think it would be more advantageous to policy lynch MBF over MoS?
I personally feel that would be the better pick out of the two.

Maybe; not necessarily.

[ReaperCharlie]

Are you fine with a danakillsu lynch?

[ReaperCharlie]

I think that scum-team call is off, tbh.

I will eat crow if it's right, though.

[ReaperCharlie]

Welcome, Magua.

Unvote; Vote: Magua

Obvious reason is obvious.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm having a difficult time getting a read on anybody. What are the biggest cases right now?,

Hmmm... perhaps try reading the thread, instead of expecting everyone else to do your work for you?

BUT... BUT... BUT... there are 400 posts to sift through! Oh noes! :0

Then maybe you should have read them as they happened instead of expecting us to not post until you can get on and read them.

The game doesn't revolve around you. Replace out if you're going to be a liability.

[ReaperCharlie]

Reading your post, I just looked up Energetic Penguin's shiznit. He flaked out of a game in late '09, flaked out of another in early '10, and has only been 'back' since mid-April 2011. He doesn't have 18 months experience on site. He only has 50 posts. I'm not defending him per se, but your summary of him is a bit misleading. I wouldn't be surprised if he flaked this game too, though. Here's an incentive not to, EP.

Now that I look at it again, Ant_to_the_Max's reminder to mikeburnfire that "It's the weekend now" could be scum w/o daytalk trying to prod their buddy into action before they get called out on it by someone else.

More later but I should get off soon. I just spent the last 5 or so hours discussing Metropolis: Revisited's postgame. Good times!

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah, sorry. Sifting through pages upon pages of witless banter and garbage posts isn't my thing. I'll take the short version please.

So let's go. What do we have to work with?

Ok, here's the skinny: we've got an active lurker (MoS) and a sh!tposter (mbf).

Not sure who I wanna lynch more.

[ReaperCharlie]

I am confused on why you would dayvig a townread of yours.

So I joined this thing called an alliance for the lulz. We do all fun stuffz togetherz. One day RC decided to vote for MoS. Alliance rules forced me vote for him as well.


But really, I switched off of dana for the alliance. I will be willing to switch back to her or Pere.

1. obv fake daykill is obv fake
2. you are this close to being un-allianced, k?
3. dana is a guy
4. vote mbf
5.

Vote: mikeburnfire

[ReaperCharlie]

unvote, vote Thor

for pushing my lynch sans a reason.

Do you have any other reason to be voting Thor at the moment?

[ReaperCharlie]

Not gonna be able to post until later today.

[ReaperCharlie]

@Mod: I'm voting mikeburnfire, not Magua.

Nobody should be lynching dana right now. I need to re-read him and then I will give the go-ahead if he's still scum.

Also on my radar are PV and CDB, though not necessarily scum. Re-read should be coming soon, and I'll post my thoughts. Sorry about my inactivity the last couple of days, life's been really busy, and I've been catching up on a lot of things (including Portal 2, which I still haven't had time to finish...)

Sooo yeah. Nobody lynch anybody yet.

Also, I find it pretty stupid that MoS lurks all through Day 1 and then requests for an extension. WHAT THE F#$& IS THAT.

[ReaperCharlie]

@Mod: I am voting mikeburnfire not Magua

Check the rules.

Fine

unvote vote mbf

.

[ReaperCharlie]

Still swamped. GGAAAUUUUHHHGGGHHUAGHHH

Maybe late tonight or tomorrow.

[ReaperCharlie]

If people ignore the obvious and refuse to vote mbf, then I will be voting Energetic Penguin, who is a null read for me. He's not incredibly pro-town, so he's not a BAD mislynch if he is one.

Haven't read yet.

But WHAT about this post is pro-town in ANY WAY.

Unvote; Vote: danakillsu

All the way, this time.

[ReaperCharlie]

Or, it's better to sheep someone else's scum read, than to try to stall wagons with "nope, not gonna vote cause i don't have any scum reads" mentality until the point that no-lynch is even a remote possibility. How about that.

Oh wait.

[ReaperCharlie]

- The most recent jump on dana was atrocious
- Just call it a RC-scumdar but I've been able to accurately guess his alignment in games we've played together

Unvote. Vote: RC

I'll vote back ep if this doesn't get traction .. However, we have enough time to take this RC wagon "all the way" ..

Are you talking about Harry Potter, or Succession? Because you didn't guess my alignment in either.

And if you think I'm scum now, that's just further proof that you're wrong. That is a town-tell though.

I will re-read soon and tally up all of the town-tells and scum-tells, and give you guys a list with colors.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, ooba, how is my jump to dana atrocious in any way?

[ReaperCharlie]

HP: What was with the "Kmd/FG, are you AC/AC?" thing then? 0_o
Succession: My cop claim wasn't fake. I was a cop, lol.
Star Wars: Yeah well... that was my first game on site.

Yeah, I know what games of yours I've been in

[ReaperCharlie]

V/LA for the weekend, but that's okay because it will be night anyway.

Me too.

[ReaperCharlie]

Vig me N1 then! You'll only look like an idiot when I flip town.

Why EP and not dana?

[ReaperCharlie]

Do you not agree that what he said was insanely scummy?

[ReaperCharlie]

And why do you think your current scum read is scummy?

[ReaperCharlie]

Reasoning?

[ReaperCharlie]

crap. I didn't realize we had a deadline looming. that changes things considerably.


...so why do you think EP is better than dana?


I personally think dana is much scummier than EP. Can I ask you to trust me and vote dana instead?

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, if the scum team is MoS/MBF/Magua or something similar, they should have an easy time lurking through the game, while at the same time never being in too much danger of being lynched. I am going to push for one of them to be lynched tomorrow (not necessarily Magua, but the other two). They are shifty and I'm gonna rip them a new one.

Also, once dana flips we get that much more info out of him than if he were left alive. Conversely, if EP flips, we get next to nothing, and scummy-dana is still alive, whether or not he's actually SCUM (which I believe he is). Consider that in your calculations of who to lynch, ooba.

[ReaperCharlie]

What does everyone think of Ant_to_the_max?

[ReaperCharlie]

I think CDB may be scum too.

[ReaperCharlie]

Last Post (all times CST):

danakillsu - Thurs, 11:22 am
Channeldelibird - Thurs, 3:44 pm
Ant_to_the_max - Thurs, 11:23 pm
PerigrineV - Thurs, 2:51 pm
Mastermind of Sin - Now

Thor665 - Wed, 3:22 pm

mikeburnfire - Thurs, 5:45 pm
Ragnarokio - Thurs, 7:18 am

Energetic Penguin - Tues, 9:57 am

ReaperCharlie - Thurs, 3:33 pm
ooba - Thurs, 1:23 pm
Magua - Thurs, 10:50 am

MarchHare - Sun, 2:58 am

Some people are suspiciously missing close to deadline...

Fucking Christ, I have no motivation these days.

Will post tomorrow.

Mod: Please replace MarchHare.

The prod deadline is 48 hours, and it's been nearly 5 days now...

The fact that you are asking this is hilarious.

The irony is not lost on me.

[ReaperCharlie]

mothrax? Why are we having to rely on mock vote counts? This is ridic.

[ReaperCharlie]

Alright, I guess it's time.

unvote vote: Energetic Penguin

Ridiculously scummy.

Somebody please help me kill off dana! WTF

[ReaperCharlie]

Do it.

The Force beckons you.

[ReaperCharlie]

Screw it...

*I* BECKON YOU.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, STOP USING 'EASY LYNCH' AS AN ARGUMENT!

(whether you are or not, whether it's subconscious or not... just don't.)

Lynch dana. I beseech thee.

[ReaperCharlie]

Screw you!!!!

[ReaperCharlie]

Honestly not liking either a Dana or EP lynch...

Won't let a no-lynch happen, but I can and will wait until the deadline.

Unvote.
Vote: Mastermind of Sin

since I feel he is actual scum.

I'll sheep this!

Unvote; Vote: Mastermind of Sin

WAGON SWING

[ReaperCharlie]

I personally think dana is much scummier than EP. Can I ask you to trust me and vote dana instead?

Also RC, you do realize that you're asking me to trust a scum read of mine to vote a town read

Yes. I realize this.

But I changed my mind. If we can swing an MoS lynch, let's do it. He's scum.

Hey, vote for MoS with me.

[ReaperCharlie]

Energetic Penguin. L-1. Vote.

I will not.

MoS is a better lynch and we have 48 hours.

[ReaperCharlie]

Bah..... Unicorns.

[ReaperCharlie]

Mastermind of Sin:

La Ciudad (Mafia One-Shot Neighborizer)

, lynched D5

The town has saved the Intersect and won the game!

f*(k yeah. we owned it up