Team Mafia General Thread

[LlamaFluff]

I would be interested in joining a group under the condiditon I dont have to play a theme.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Zoraster - will you be keeping us informed as teams register with you? I'd be interested in seeing a running tally of how many full / 3/4ths full teams arrive quickly.

[zoraster]

Zoraster - will you be keeping us informed as teams register with you? I'd be interested in seeing a running tally of how many full / 3/4ths full teams arrive quickly.

Yeah this is a good idea. I won't be revealing who's in those teams yet as we're not sure we're going to disclose teams at all (in fact we're leaning against it), but keeping a list of teams that have pre-inned with full teams is a good idea. At the moment, I've only gotten one team that's pre-inned. I added a count on the front page.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and say that I won't start the Team Mafia games until May 15th

at the earliest

. That should give players a little more certainty when forming their teams. I may start sign-ups and even the draft section of PYP before that point, but the games themselves won't start before May 15th.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah this is a good idea. I won't be revealing who's in those teams yet as we're not sure we're going to disclose teams at all (in fact we're leaning against it), but keeping a list of teams that have pre-inned with full teams is a good idea. At the moment, I've only gotten one team that's pre-inned. I added a count on the front page.

I agree 100% with no team disclosure. Rather than risk some sort of schenanigans it's better to play it safe.

I'm very interested in seeing this play out and find who the Top teams eventually are. Great idea Zor!!

[Iecerint]

Someone contacted me about this. I'm interested.

[zoraster]

Yeah this is a good idea. I won't be revealing who's in those teams yet as we're not sure we're going to disclose teams at all (in fact we're leaning against it), but keeping a list of teams that have pre-inned with full teams is a good idea. At the moment, I've only gotten one team that's pre-inned. I added a count on the front page.

I agree 100% with no team disclosure. Rather than risk some sort of schenanigans it's better to play it safe.

I'm very interested in seeing this play out and find who the Top teams eventually are. Great idea Zor!!

Thanks! I'm excited to see it play out. We're up to 3 teams now.

[Nero Cain]

I wonder if I can get Fate and Nero on a team..

I rather NOT listen to yelling and screaming.

[Hoopla]

Selecting The Player To Go In Each Game

Before the games start, your team will be given three role PMs, one for each of the games except PYP. Your team must decide which player will go into which game, and PM Zoraster with this information.

Players in PYP will start without a role as normal (the draft is part of the game).

That isn't normal. Players are given an alignment to begin with prior to the draft. The draft is there to determine which abilities (if any) get added to your role. Scum get to coordinate pregame to sync/organize their draft picks, and then their role choices.

~~

Also, I don't think your scoring system is staggered very well. A town perfect win is incredibly rare in comparison to a perfect scum win. I'd rethink that if I were you. I'm not sure if you want to have such large gaps in the levels of points too, as this tampers with game dynamics somewhat, making bussing increasingly less attractive. I suppose that might be some of the appeal though?

[RayFrost]

This is relevant to my interests.

[Andrius]

Would be interested, but don't want to make too many promises for the summer as I'll be gone a week plus. :/

[Katsuki]

I was gonna get the CLA together for this.
Then I realized... I retired.

RECK

THIS CAN BE YOUR GRAND FINALE

GO OUT WITH A BANG, NOT A WHIMPER!

[GreyICE]

Yeah, at the rate it's "moving," Lover's Mafia is going to be his last game.

[Zdenek]

I'd be happy to join a team with anyone who needs a fourth.

[iamausername]

I won't be revealing who's in those teams yet as we're not sure we're going to disclose teams at all (in fact we're leaning against it)

Just saw this. I don't know if it will affect this decision anyway, but I'll point out that some people will know something about the makeup of other teams either way, due to being courted by multiple teams. I know this for a fact. But maybe that's part of the game.

[zoraster]

Yeah I just meant there won't be a role pm for PYP. I can provide alignment info to the team to make their selection, but not role information. Anyway, we're reevaluating points. I'll be honest and say the points as they are now never thrilled me. I welcome suggestions for the points. I'm going to keep the +/- points for winning/losing lylo, the negative points for replacement, on-going game discussion, and modkill/force replacement, but the "meat" of the point system is certainly up in the air. I could go with a binary system (something like +8 for winning), but I'd love to get at least some reward for a bigger victory. The points don't have to be the exact same for each subgame, but they do need to be very close, and the expected value should be the same.

Selecting The Player To Go In Each Game

Before the games start, your team will be given three role PMs, one for each of the games except PYP. Your team must decide which player will go into which game, and PM Zoraster with this information.

Players in PYP will start without a role as normal (the draft is part of the game).

That isn't normal. Players are given an alignment to begin with prior to the draft. The draft is there to determine which abilities (if any) get added to your role. Scum get to coordinate pregame to sync/organize their draft picks, and then their role choices.

~~

Also, I don't think your scoring system is staggered very well. A town perfect win is incredibly rare in comparison to a perfect scum win. I'd rethink that if I were you. I'm not sure if you want to have such large gaps in the levels of points too, as this tampers with game dynamics somewhat, making bussing increasingly less attractive. I suppose that might be some of the appeal though?

[zoraster]

I won't be revealing who's in those teams yet as we're not sure we're going to disclose teams at all (in fact we're leaning against it)

Just saw this. I don't know if it will affect this decision anyway, but I'll point out that some people will know something about the makeup of other teams either way, due to being courted by multiple teams. I know this for a fact. But maybe that's part of the game.

Yeah. We don't plan on forbidding any team from revealing their identities or anything. It's just that we, the mods, won't do it.

[Vi]

*totally not reading the thread*
zoraster, when do you think this will begin?

[zoraster]

*totally not reading the thread*
zoraster, when do you think this will begin?

May 15th or later for the actual game starts. Possibly a bit earlier for the pre-game stuff (sign-ups, role selection, etc)

[GreyICE]

Yeah I just meant there won't be a role pm for PYP. I can provide alignment info to the team to make their selection, but not role information. Anyway, we're reevaluating points. I'll be honest and say the points as they are now never thrilled me. I welcome suggestions for the points. I'm going to keep the +/- points for winning/losing lylo, the negative points for replacement, on-going game discussion, and modkill/force replacement, but the "meat" of the point system is certainly up in the air. I could go with a binary system (something like +8 for winning), but I'd love to get at least some reward for a bigger victory. The points don't have to be the exact same for each subgame, but they do need to be very close, and the expected value should be the same.

+10 for winning


Adjustments (note: adjustments only apply if the team won)

TOWN

-1 for each mislynch
-2 for 3 man LyLo
+3 for "flawless victory" (no mislynches)

SCUM

-1 for each team member lynched
-2 for 3 man LyLo
+2 for intact team

OTHER (METAGAMING HO):

+1 point for each scum lynch the team member was on the wagon for

+1 point for each town lynch the team member was on the wagon for

I really like the last two btw, as it should add some major WIFOM, and really reward scum and town players who are proactive in getting lynches, rather than tag alongs and "lurked my way to victory."

[zoraster]

I'm not crazy about points for mislynches or having a teammate lynched. First, it doesn't really solve the problem that's been brought up with my system (namely that it provides incentive to play differently). Second, it's not really even. A town win might have three mislynches, and almost always has at least one mislynch. A scum win, at most, will have two team members lynched, and -- as has been pointed out -- a perfect scum win is a lot more common than a perfect town win.

I'm not sure what you mean by the colored points.

[GreyICE]

Well that was kind of off the cuff. Maybe -1 for each mislynch after the first for the town? And I thought the 3/2 reflected the difference. BTW, the "perfect scum win" happens most often when there's a sea of really bad players and you get good players pulling scum - something like a DDD/UK/x scumteam in a town full of nimnuts. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect scum win where the town didn't just make me kinda flinch at the player list. I'm sure this is my cue to be linked to something, but I'll stand by it. I don't anticipate either happening in any of these games unless Dramonic reuses fates mafia.

[zoraster]

what did you mean by your colored suggestion?

My biggest problem is kind of that I'm trying to guess at things I don't really know.

Can anyone who's better with calculations tell me what the chances are that two or more teams will have the highest points and have same point total in the following scenario:
1. Win rate is 50/50 for all four games
2. There are 10 town and 3 scum in each game
3. Teams are assigned roles randomly (duh).
4. Points for winning as scum and town are the same and there are no points gained or lost otherwise.

DDD?

EDITED

[iamausername]

BTW, the "perfect scum win" happens most often when there's a sea of really bad players and you get good players pulling scum - something like a DDD/UK/x scumteam in a town full of nimnuts. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect scum win where the town didn't just make me kinda flinch at the player list.

I'm sure this is my cue to be linked to something

, but I'll stand by it.

yep

[hitogoroshi]

zoraster, am I right in guessing that your ideal scoring system is one where the optimal play is exactly the same as it would be if the mini was unconnected to team mafia? I've been doing a bit of finagling on what a good system would look like but I should make sure I'm balancing on the right constraint first. :p

[zoraster]

zoraster, am I right in guessing that your ideal scoring system is one where the optimal play is exactly the same as it would be if the mini was unconnected to team mafia? I've been doing a bit of finagling on what a good system would look like but I should make sure I'm balancing on the right constraint first. :p

Yes, although I don't mind a very slight incentive for scum not to bus. (Don't mind=it's fine if there is one although it shouldn't be large, but not that it's necessary at all)