Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Antihero]

No, it looks like someone trying to move this long, boring game along because the only time the town gets crap done is during the night.

...and you got onto me for getting apathetic?

I'll blame #1516 on too much vodka, but it's just to save face.

*phew*

I was worried for a second there that you had caught us.

Is this the second or third time you've pulled this crap?

[SpyreX]

Awesome no one looked or commented or anything thus far.

Yee-haw.

I'll go through and gather the myriad of "XXX did some cool stuff vote: whomever" that RC's MO is based around before bed.

[SpyreX]

So I lied. The wife has stole me away and it can happen this weekend.

Not like there's any fat rush what with all the activity.

[RedCoyote]

...and you got onto me for getting apathetic?

That was different. Apples to oranges. You were supposedly hard up for a werewolf lynch just like I was until you sold out. I was not enthusastic at all for Gorrad, let alone Chevre, to be hanged. Additionally, I'll try to cut back on the humor, Mr. Serious.

---

RC, why do you interpret Xtoxm was hitting scumß?

Like I told Spyrex, that's how I'd play as a Hider. Couple that with Xtoxm's last post and Spy's interaction with ckd, and that's a pretty scummy cocktail.

[iamausername]

I think it's time for one of these posts. Going for a different format this time, because variety is the spice of life.

Antihero

Not going to go into all the reasons I found him scummy before his claim, I think that's been covered well enough.

I think we can take it as read that Antihero is a roleblocker who blocked Xtoxm on N1. Whether he's a

town

roleblocker, that's another matter. But I still think it's considerably less likely that a scum roleblocker would jump the gun and claim when Antihero did, because he'd know Xtoxm was town. I imagine the thought process would go something like this:

TOWN ANTIHERO:
-Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-He's scum! Get him!

SCUM ANTIHERO:
--Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-???
-Maybe he's not lying...
-Read role list
-Yes, there are ways he could think yabbaguy was confirmed even though I blocked him.

CKD watch: very little interaction. Gives approval to a "let's kill these people" list including CKD here, but then, the list is eight names long. Not really significant.

Cyberbob

Definitely not lacking in interaction with CKD. Earlier in his iso, it looks a little suspect; he votes for CKD a couple of times, but he never really pushes it much, and it's always clear that there's someone else he'd rather lynch. But he does actually start to get serious about it towards the end of D2, those interactions do not look like bussing to me.

Independantly, he's been a little bit going with the flow; he was there on the Gorrad wagon and both D1 and D2s Chevre wagons without being much of an instigator, especially on Chevre. He was also on the Antihero, but he was really the first one to start pushing that, and frequently kept pushing it in the face of indifference, which looks town to me.

DrippingGoofball

cba explaining why I'm so sure DGB is town. call it gut, if you like.

Dutch one

As I said, reading CKD's iso makes it clear that he is town, even if it wasn't obvious already.

inHimshallibe

Has become increasingly shady as the game progresses. I don't have an issue with the no explanations playstyle, actions speak louder than words and all that. What does bother me is his reaction to the Xtoxm/Antihero claim furore. And his reaction to other people's reactions to same. I have trouble seeing how all of these posts can come from the same worldview:

Unvote

What do you think you have on me, Antihero? Your actions here look pretty townly so there's probably an explanation for all this.

Also, I never claimed cop. Don't go jumping to conclusions, people. I simply said that I know Yabbaguy is not dangerous.

Please tell me this is the guy we're lynching.

PF, how can I pick a side when all I have are vague innuendos? Hell, who's to say they aren't both town?

Haven't you been anti-Antihero for the majority of this game?

Tell me, Inhim. If we lynch Xtoxm and he flips town, would you want to lynch Antihero next? What about Yabba?

Haven't thought that far ahead. His claim sucks, let's lynch him.

No, Antihero's behaviour still doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. His claim was not well thought out, but as a scum roleblocker, he'd know that Xtoxm wasn't lying and figure out how he could still think yabba was innocent despite being blocked. As a town roleblocker, he'd have much more reason to believe that Xtoxm could be lying and newsboy jump in with the counter claim without thinking through all the possibilities.

They're both town. Let's lynch Chevre instead.

VOTE: Chevre

Good posting.

CKD watch: Consistently on his "kill this guy" list, consistently no effort is made by inhim to actually kill this guy. Definitely suspect.

Jerbs/yabbaguy

May or may not be cleared by Xtoxm, depending on how Hider works here, and since Kublai isn't answering, I guess we'll have to say not. I'd been assuming as such anyway, given that the Hider description on the first page doesn't say anything about it preventing any actions on the hider besides kills, but whatever. yabbaguy is probably town anyway.

He's made a lot of sense all the way through, I really like his attempts to break the D1 deadlock here, especially given that we now know that all four players on the chopping block were town. He's really showing a lot of care about getting the best lynch at a time when scum would give no fuck. His nocase attacks are striking out against the borgeousie, misguided though they may have been. He starts up the crappy dutch one wagon, then changes his mind once it gets going. He does an extensive meta read on Antihero and comes out with no real conclusion. None of this is scum behaviour.

Katsuki/PokerFace

I don't remember these two doing

anything

, so I'm interested to see what happens when I read their iso.

Oh right, Katsuki was the guy who replaced out because he couldn't keep up, but did a fine job of keeping up with every comment about his possible reasons for wanting to replace out after he requested replacement. That was funny.

Oh right, PokerFace is the guy who has asked a bunch of inane questions that signify absolutely nothing and never followed up on anyone's answers to those questions. That was funny. No wait, the other thing. Scummy.

Also D2, he's all like "I don't know what the case is on Antihero, I'm sure I'll figure it out just in time to hop on before deadline though if we don't lynch Dutch one by then". Props for not hiding your evil plans there, PokerFace.

He does not look like someone who is trying to figure out who is scum, at all. He looks like someone who is trying to find the easiest lynch.

KMD

I don't care.

Korlash

I understand about 30% of what he's saying, which doesn't help. Noting again that he explicitly states in Post #562 that he doesn't think SpyreX is scum, but continues to vote for him, and apparently changes his mind again later down the line. This post definitely comes across as a "knows SpyreX is town" slip, actually.

Korlash's posting in general is kind of running on a single-issue platform. It's pretty much all SpyreX all the time.

He makes a bizarre comment in Post #1070, suggesting that KMD should look for scum on the werewolf wagon instead of the Gorrad wagon, even though he himself was on the werewolf wagon, and the guy he's been trying to lynch for the entire game was on the Gorrad wagon. My first instinct would be that he's protecting buddies on the Gorrad wagon, but CKD was on werewolf, so unless it's some kind of crazy reverse psychology gambit, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum point of view than a town one. Just baffling.

Also he recently argued against someone suggesting that he is definitely not scum with SpyreX. The only motivation I can see for that is that he is scum and doesn't want SpyreX to become cleared if he dies.

I'll get to the rest tomorrow probably. Right now I think it would be productive to

Unvote

VOTE: PokerFace

[yabbaguy]

Still happy with RC vote. I have a guess as to what SpyreX is having a look at, but I'll let him say it.

Someone show me how ckd and SpyreX are buddying, please?

[DrippingGoofball]

Someone show me how ckd and SpyreX are buddying, please?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2756118
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2758445

They were interacting like buddies... do not confuse with "buddying" a wildly different animal.

[Cyberbob]

I really haven't been in the mood for this over the last day (I wasn't lying when I told whoeveritwas that my interest in mafia waxes and wanes). Apologies.

Anyway. I'm having a decent amount of trouble really focusing on the game as a whole so I'm going to take a leaf out of IAUN's book with a playerlist post. Not going into everyone right now, just the ones under the pump a bit right now. If I get around to it I'll try and finish the job at some point though.

RedCoyote

Starts out pushing Antihero and being suspicious of Gorrad, then drops Anti and votes for Katsuki (now PokerFace). The thing with this switch is that a) he hadn't even mentioned Katsuki up until that point and b) no mention was made of Gorrad. Surprising, given that he was at least nominally RC's second biggest suspicion to start off with.

(side note at this point: I don't recall if I commented on it at the time but the last little section of his Post 264 is the very definition of loud wishy-washiness)

He very quickly eases off on Chevre after his initial criticism then finally takes the plunge and votes Gorrad.... then immediately gets wishywashy on him again and couples that with a tentative "I'm moving away from my town feelings on Cyberbob" (in agreement with CKD). Starts voting werewolf around this time and is suddenly full of conviction that he is guilty... but I still don't get the feeling that his heart is really in it.

I don't have the energy to go into too much more detail on these early posts but I have read them and literally the only player he remains at all consistent on is werewolf. He flipflops on Gorrad & I a bunch of times and throws some vague suspicion at Kmd and Seraphim. His interaction with Weatherman is just equivocation equivocation equivocation and I don't like the way he expresses the little bit about "Let's end this day on a high note of RC and Weatherman coming to a mutual understanding in their sudden heightened suspicions of Antihero." at the end of the day.

He starts off Day 2 going after Dutch one with a "pressure vote" (the stated preferred lynch being Antihero)... and being wishy washy on CKD. Is critical of PokerFace's play but only in a technical sense - he doesn't seem to find him scummy for it. Cosies up to DGB some on the side.

Did I say the Dutch vote was a pressure vote? Welp. That sure turned into a ~real one~ quick- oh no wait he says Antihero is still far and away the best lynch and a couple of posts later votes for him. Seemingly because he suddenly realised there was a groundswell of support for his lynch or something? Oh but Dutch is still a lynch he would be happy with though. Oh now he's trying to make a deal with nocase to set up an Xtoxm lynch after Antihero. Where did

that

come from? (He follows that up with an immediate "who's to say they can't both be town" post by the way)

"Agrees with Spy 100% in all things said over the last couple of pages", then goes back to Dutch. Then lets Dutch off the hook and goes to inHim. Then goes back to Dutch. Then unvotes. Then claims they're both town. Then piggybacks IAUN's Chevre case and hammers Chevre. Seriously.

Seriously.

Day 3 rolls around and starts in on both DGB and Spy based on interactions with CKD (this is fair). Doesn't really go into why he chose to vote Spy over DGB though.

LOL Post 1497 is a pearler. He QFT's both PokerFace and Korlash, literally has the nerve to criticise IAUN for "handing scum the mislynch on a platter" (

lmao forever

), apparently thought yabbaguy was always confirmed town since xtoxm's roleclaim and goes back to inHim for no discernable reason other than a piggyback of Kmd. No discussion of why Spy or DGB are suddenly less scummy than him or anything.

Keeps up the inHim pressure (still no explanation of his own for that vote) and is still pushing that strange line about "that's how I'd play as a Hider" with regards to his interpretation of the night's actions.

---------
okay I seriously don't have the energy to write that much on everyone, going to be as concise as possible from this point on.
---------

DGB

I find her rather scummy but it's more of an overall gut feeling than anything at this point; I didn't like her recent Kmd vote at all but I also don't think she was going particularly light on CKD. What she is doing is making it very hard to get a concrete read on her in either direction; there's a lot of kErAzY flipflopping and whatnot going on. It's a quality display of smokescreening which I have never found especially palatable - I don't really see all that much motivation for a town player to be so erratic compared to the obvious benefits for scum.

inHimshallibe

Ah yes. Scummy. I've gone into my reasons for this opinion previously but I do want to reiterate just how suspicious his behaviour was yesterday concerning the xtoxm/Antihero drama. I'd say there's a definite possible connection to RC with the latter's numerous badly justified votes for him throughout the course of the game. Leaning towards a RC/inHim pairing at the very least right now.

Kmd

Town. He's made a lot of one-liners but that's not always a bad thing in of itself and what he has said has been on-point 99% of the time. He's been drawing no small amount of OMGUS from DGB as well which has been amusing to watch.

SpyreX

Erratic and I don't like the approach he took to the Gorrad wagon but apart from that nothing really stands out. The apathy thing... normally I'd say it's a little off but there were/are(?) a

lot

of players under the same affliction for a rather long time towards the end of Day 2. That one's a nulltell.

Overall probably leaning towards scum but that's partly for the same reasons I haven't been approving of DGB's play; I generally don't like people who make a habit of being ~so WACKY~.



Alright I'm seriously lathargic now and I have a lot of homework I want to get done this weekend so I'm going to leave it here. Definitely going to

Vote: RedCoyote

at this stage though, that read in particular was most enlightening.

[Cyberbob]

lethargic*

[Korlash]

Korlash's posting in general is kind of running on a single-issue platform. It's pretty much all SpyreX all the time.

Except when it's Dutch, Werewolf, or Pokerface. Other then that, yeah. I guess so. But can you blame me, he's just so damn attractive!

Noting again that he explicitly states in Post #562 that he doesn't think SpyreX is scum, but continues to vote for him, and apparently changes his mind again later down the line. This post definitely comes across as a "knows SpyreX is town" slip, actually.

I remember saying I didn't think he was scum for one particular bit I said... I don't see how that equates to me saying I don't think he is scum at all. Unless you honestly think my vote on him has been based on that one single paragraph this whole time...

Also he recently argued against someone suggesting that he is definitely not scum with SpyreX. The only motivation I can see for that is that he is scum and doesn't want SpyreX to become cleared if he dies.

I asked him why he felt that way in light of the logical folly it brings to the table... how is that arguing against it?

He makes a bizarre comment in Post #1070, suggesting that KMD should look for scum on the werewolf wagon instead of the Gorrad wagon, even though he himself was on the werewolf wagon, and the guy he's been trying to lynch for the entire game was on the Gorrad wagon. My first instinct would be that he's protecting buddies on the Gorrad wagon, but CKD was on werewolf, so unless it's some kind of crazy reverse psychology gambit, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum point of view than a town one. Just baffling.

Yup... baffling... I almost never get anything right. I'll have to write home about this one.

"Dear mom and dad. guess what I did today! no, I didn't slam it in the toilet seat again..."

[RedCoyote]

Wow, it's like one of those "if you are scum, every post you make is scummy" PbPAs that everyone hates. I especially like how you think Spy is "probably scum" but you end up doing exactly what he tells you to do anyways.

[Cyberbob]

Wow, it's like one of those "if you are scum, every post you make is scummy" PbPAs that everyone hates.

I know what you mean but it's not a case of everything you said being scummy, it's a case of me only bothering to comment on the stuff that stands out and all of

that

stuff being scummy.

I especially like how you think Spy is "probably scum" but you end up doing exactly what he tells you to do anyways.

I am? I wasn't specifically looking for The Thing he's been going on about if that's what you mean.

[RedCoyote]

You could've fooled me. From what I saw it looked like "RC's early D1 = scummy, mid D1 = scummy, late D1 = scummy... start of D2 = scummy, mid D2 = scummy, late D2 = scummy... start of D3 = scummy". You're all over the place, and I think people will see that. Just because I've been completely out in the open shouldn't necessarily be a strike against me. I bare my heart to everyone as town, you know. I don't just post the things that'll make me sound good. You see me naked, including all my ugly back-and-forthness as the game progresses. I know of no other way to play than to be 100% honest.

[Korlash]

I feel RC owes me an apology for that last post... the nightmares to come... *sniff* the emotional distress... He.. he... bared himself to me against my will! *cries*

Attorney: son, can you show the court on this doll where specifically RC bared himself to you...

Korlash: *through tears* Everywhere!... It was just so naked...

Attorney: yes, we all threw up a little bit...

[DrippingGoofball]

MOAR SpyreX voats please.

[PokerFace]

@Weatherman

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2869797
I don't really subscribe to a meta view like yours. I'll admit to thinking you have a point on that pattern being true still I'd rather it remained true because if we were to let scum always claim vanilla to get away from lynches I don't think that would be good for the site

also
"do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards."
note to self, bring laptop if I ever go on euro trip

_______

If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me.

I'm interested in why. Wouldn't Spy as scum make me questionable? Not only have I been "arguably" focused on him almost all game, but isn't he the one that mentioned some sort of "town tell" I did? I would think that would at least be evidence of a possible buddy relationship. Hey, I'm all for being "confirmed town" in any which way I can, but I'd like to know why if it's possible.

In the post you pointed out a link between ckd and spyreX. If you were scum with them then that would mean you just rated out 2 members in your faction. I've heard of bussing but I don't think you are capable of that kind of bussing. You couldn't gaurantee any of their deaths in a plausbile strategy to make yourself look good like that on day 1. Also Korlash you don't strike me as the elaborate plan and or bussing scum type player. I can tell you are good at being mafia from previous games but I think your strength is misdirection, being able to comically apeal to the nature of others, and coast along things without notice so that no one gets rid of you. You are that type of player. The elaborate plan type that tries to look town constantly and stay alive despite what happens to his buds is not you. Thats the type of scum player I usually am, so I can tell you aren't it. Also seriously man I swore you were gonna post a monty python video when I made that spanish inquistion comment earlier. I was so disappointed

_______

My personal modding views have roleblocker actions always happen first so that scum in theory could kill hiders by other means than getting the hider lynched. Otherwise I think Hider is just too powerful as scum can't kill it at night and people will always get confirmed. Don't get me wrong i don't suspect yabba still I'm not calling him confirmed in case kubla subscribes to the same philosophy I do. I also allow actions like tracking and watching to see hiders but thats another story.

_______

I still think all scum remaining exist in (SpyreX or Korlash not both), DGB, Red, Inhim. Though I think I am likly wrong on one of them as I don't think a game of this size would start with 5 mafia. Its been awhile since i been in a 20 person game so someone is welcome to correct me but i think the norm there is 4 which would mean I'd have to be wrong somewhere given ckd is already dead and scum

Iamusernames problem with me seems to stem from me being lazy and not doing what I've often said I've wanted to do. I <3 procrastination when I am bored. Gess I got to stop doing that and post stuff involving spyreX and CKD. Be back soon

[PokerFace]

something else korlash is the fact you asked me a question about you

I'm thinking you asked me that because you wanted to question or scumhunt me especially when you earlier said you had problems with me. if you were the scum and exisibiting the play I'd expect from you, where you'd stay far away from your buddies and coast, you wouldn't have asked that question. You wouldn't gve a damn why I didn't think you were scum with spyreX and ckd. When we were in death Note mafia you didn't give a shit when I unvoted you day 1 when you were scum and I said I wasn't suspicions of you in that game.

so yay I'm find more reason to think korlash is town which makes spyreX the more likly scum

[DrippingGoofball]

Let me help you with this.

I still think all scum remaining exist in (

SpyreX

or

Korlash

not both),

DGB

,

Red

,

Inhim

.

[Weatherman]

i'm soooo out of tune with some of you guys (SpyreX, cyberbob at least)
I'm on RCs neck from replacing into D2 like a rabid beaver and no one really cares.
Then the guy makes a move I deem brash enough to look TOWN. And then you guys are all over him.

Why was the chevre hammer scummy?
Seriously. There was NO strategical advantage for RC to flip flop. I'm sure there would have been people to line up to finish the job for the deadline, and he had JUST taken the position, in deadline conscious time frame, that chevre was town, as was dutch. The flip flop is one of those things that is bound to attract attention and seems pointless if he's scum. THe only exception would be a dangerous counterwagon raising. But there was no significant other momentum yet.

[SpyreX]

You dont even get words.

You get to digest this.

Spyrex picked up on my sentiments exactly.

I'm genuinely confused about it. I'll tell you one thing though, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that I wasn't the only one who was confused about it. I'll just bet you some of our players were pretending like they knew what was going down, when in reality they had no clue. username is aiming toward Antihero, and Spyrex thinks Gorrad is fluffing his way through it. Both are reasonable votes, I think, but if I were to pick one I'd lean more toward Antihero. To clarify, I think Antihero was pretending like he knew what was going on in order to make himself look townie. I'm willing to elaborate on this if anyone would like. I don't think the right move was to pretend you knew what nocase/inHim was talking about, but to respond with something between skepticism and curiosity.

Vote: Antihero

I feel like farside just found something big on werewolf.

I wouldn't be crying if werewolf took a lynch here.

I don't like werewolf's reaction. I would've felt much better if he said that each game was an island and told farside to come off her cloud. As it stands though, farside looks as though she unearthed something important and werewolf comes across as a guilty child trying to look for a bs excuse to get out of it (I don't mean this derogatively, werewolf, I just mean to give an image of how it is playing in my head).

Unvote; vote: werewolf555

It makes a very interesting game, by the way. I forgot to mention this earlier.

Even if I think Gorrad is a good compromise lynch, which I do, I don't like how the werewolf wagon has the rug pulled out from under it just because

farside, Dutch, and/or I aren't here 24/7.

Gorrad is being played up like he's some sort of monster Mafia player, and, although I'm sure he is, he isn't in this game. In this game he's just another lurker right along side of Kmd, Seraphim, and username as far as I'm concerned. I've got a wall post forthcoming, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Let's end this day on a high note of

RC and Weatherman coming to a mutual understanding in their sudden heightened suspicions of Antihero.

Unvote; vote: Gorrad

Antihero would be the most lovely lynch, but I have no problem with giving our friend Dutch a little time in the spotlight.

Korlash does a good job of wrapping it up. yabba explains it as well.

Vote: Dutch one

Alright, username. You did your homework.

Unvote; vote: Antihero

The lynch may proceed.

Agree with Spy 100% in all things said over the past couple of pages.

Unvote; vote: Dutch_one

I don't look forward to another ten pages of debate between Chevre, Dutch, or a PF lynch. We've got firm proponents in all sides, I think.

You're all over the place, Dutch, but I'm less enthused about voting you for some reason. That post seems rather genuine. I don't know, maybe we should just stick to the Gorrad wagon?

Someone offered to vote inHim, I think I can get behind that. inHim has been really flaky with his votes.

Unvote; vote: inHimshallibe

If you guys are going to force me to choose between Chevre and Dutch, you know I'm going to choose Dutch. Chevre is not scum.

DGB, how's that big list of reads of yours holding up? Have you been updating it?

If you guys are going to force me to choose between Chevre and Dutch, you know I'm going to choose Dutch. Chevre is not scum.

username obviously put some honest work into his Chevre case.

I skimmed it earlier because I didn't really like many of the D1 points used against her in retrospect, but now that I've kind of taken a more critical look at her D2 play, I can't honestly say I have grounds enough to hold this wagon up without giving anything solid as an alternative. I know I keep going back and forth, but I'm really hitting a wall here. I don't generally make it a practice to do a 180 on a stated position I have, but I'm also not in the habit of being dishonest with myself either. Hopefully some flips will get me back in this.

Unvote; vote: Chevre

(I also saw the PF vote above me and recognize this is the hammer vote in case there's any question about this later).

Xtoxm 1038 wrote:Scummy
Spyrex
DGB

I really think we should go in one of these directions. I don't particularly care as to which one. I wouldn't miss either of these folks much at this point.

I'm also skimming over ckd's posts in isolation. I absolutely do not like his interactions with DGB or Spyrex. With DGB every argument just looks so pitty-pat. These weak, forced little spats they have with one another throughout the course of the game.

With Spyrex it's completely opposite. I did not see one interaction with Spyrex at all.

In any case, I'm fairly confident that one of these two people are scum. This is easily the biggest lead we have to work off of.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me A MILLION TIME WELLLLL

[Antihero]

Let me help you with this.

I still think all scum remaining exist in (

SpyreX

or

Korlash

not both),

DGB

,

Red

,

Inhim

.

Oh, Christmas colors! I actually might agree with most of this. Green means scum, right?

[DrippingGoofball]

@ SpyreX

TL;DR

[SpyreX]

No.

That is not a TL;DR.

I ACTUALLY WANT PEOPLE TO READ THOSE QUOTES.

[DrippingGoofball]

No.

That is not a TL;DR.

I ACTUALLY WANT PEOPLE TO READ THOSE QUOTES.

Too long... put it together for me, Moonbeams.

[SpyreX]

Just glance at the boldeds and then maybe that'll make you actually want to look at the theme