Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[scotmany12]

Vote: Tuncali

Stop fishing

[scotmany12]

It's not exactly wise to do that. Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all can't be scum.

And do you have anything to back up this claim of yours?

[scotmany12]

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

Why mention it then if you don't suspect it?

[scotmany12]

Cause it's weird. And usually a scum tell.

So then if it's usually a scumtell, why aren't you suspecting PJ when he does it? Why isn't it a scumtell for him?

[scotmany12]

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not happy with his recent posts at all. Him calling something scummy, but then saying it wasn't suspicious is bleh.

[scotmany12]

@scotmany, what are you thoughts on moz? What do you make of moz and meransiel's interactions?

Moz is all over the place, and isn't a bad place to put a vote. As far as meransiel and moz go, I can see them being scum together. Him say he would probably unvote him, then leaving his vote on him two hours after that (using gut as his justification) is strange.

Oh, and Meransiel accusing Amrun of posting in code is ludicrous.

[scotmany12]

That WIFOM in Meransiel's last post only makes me more confident in my vote.

Preview Edit: Mozamis's vote on pj sucks, and is basically OMGUS.

[scotmany12]

Drunk post

2.)

scotmany12, why did you accuse mozamis of voting me for a “basically OMGUS” reason? kunkstar7, why do you apparently agree with that? Seems to me like mozamis’ vote was for the reasoning behind my Meransiel vote, if anything.

The reasoning seems horrible contrived. For one, he ignores the points of your post. You weren't attacking anyone for being patient, but attacking someone for making generalizations and acting more experienced than previously stated. Plus the over agressiveness statement is something I will always connect with OMGUS. I don't think there is a thing as being too aggressive, and I think it is a common reason scum will use when looking for a reason to discredit someone.

Also, this happened after I called it OMGUS so it doesn't really answer your question, but it is definitely worth pointing out to show the conradictio in mozamis's posting. He calls your reasoning for voting meranseil illogical. His last two post contains defenses about meransiel stating that posting illogically does not equate a scumtell. He posts:

This i find a bit TOO agressive, and as such, scummy. Trying to ridicule someone for wanting to be patient?

Illogical.

Plus a bit of "I'm experienced and you're a noob" from petrol.
None of which looks very town to me.

VOTE PETROLEUMJELLY

Then:

Posting illogically is not a scumtell.

So for pj posting illogically does not look like very town to him, while it's not a scumtell for meransiel.

I fully believe both of these two are scum. I will have no qualms with lynching either of them today. Took me way to long to write this.

[scotmany12]

I'm not buying this scumtell on buddylee. Not agreeing with it. I have seen town criticize their predecessors before.

Moz, please respond to this:

Also, this happened after I called it OMGUS so it doesn't really answer your question, but it is definitely worth pointing out to show the conradictio in mozamis's posting. He calls your reasoning for voting meranseil illogical. His last two post contains defenses about meransiel stating that posting illogically does not equate a scumtell. He posts:

This i find a bit TOO agressive, and as such, scummy. Trying to ridicule someone for wanting to be patient?

Illogical.

Plus a bit of "I'm experienced and you're a noob" from petrol.
None of which looks very town to me.

VOTE PETROLEUMJELLY

Then:

Posting illogically is not a scumtell.

So for pj posting illogically does not look like very town to him, while it's not a scumtell for meransiel.

I want to know why being illogical is a scumtell for pj but not for meransiel.

[scotmany12]

I really feel that scotsmany plays it safe, even too safe. He jumped on my wagon when it was extremely popular, and most of his posts are him either agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else's argument. In short, he's not contributing with anything, and making it appear as if he is. Or anyway, that's the impression he gave me.

First, when I voted for you, there was only one other person (truant) who was voting for you. Mozamis had the popular wagon. Not you. Second, please show where most of my posts are me either agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else's argument? A quick iso of me shows that this is in fact not the case. I fully disagree with the statement that I am not contributing with anything.

nopointinacting up is jumping up my scumlist. First, he ignores my statement that I have seen town criticize their predecessor before. Regardless, that isn't even applicable to this situation. MBL's opening post was clearly a joke, which is evident by the fact that his predecessor hadn't posted at all. nopoints scumtell has no reason to be applied in this situation.

[scotmany12]

@Mer: I win when all the scum are dead. I think you are the most likely to be scum. So i'm going to vote for you. And how have my attempts to touch on the suspicions of others seem intentionally weak? You seem to throw around a lot of accusations against me, but you never explain them. And when I asked you to explain how most of my posts were just agreeing and disagreeing with each other, you quote two posts, don't elaborate on them at all, and say that I don't have a lot of posts to quote. So were you just lying when you initially said all I have been doing was agreeing and disagreeing with people?

And you are voting for someone who just claimed to have the ability to dayvig. An action which can be confirmed. Why would you ever do such a thing as town?

I'm inclined to believed PJ at the moment. I was a oneshot dayvig in frogs 1.

[scotmany12]

...There were two other questions for you to answer Mozamis. You totally just avoided answer why you think both pj and MBL are scum. Again.

[scotmany12]

...There were two other questions for you to answer Mozamis. You totally just avoided answer why you think both pj and MBL are scum. Again.

Couldnt remember the questions, sorry.
I'm not sure about PJ -hence why i unvoted him. His vig claim seems bizarre, tho i dont see a scum motivation for it. Maybe he is the vig and just wants to shout about it, god knows why.
Look at Buddy Lees style-its all flinging suspicions at everyone, flailing around, and yet it doesnt have the authentic air of scum hunting to me.
My feeling is that he's going for the "lets mess with their heads/twist all arguments" approach of scum.
Just a gut feeling i guess, but he seems the most scummy, hence my vote.

So you answered one of the questions, then conveniently forgot about the other two?

And how is MBL flailing around? You haven't been the only one to say this. I haven't seen any flailing at all from MBL, so maybe you should go point out where you think he is flailing. Are you voting for him based on gut or do you actually believe he is flinging suspicions at everyone and not being genuine?

[scotmany12]

Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?

And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.

[scotmany12]

I never once said I wasn't tunneling on you mer. I admit that I am slightly am. But i'm pretty sure I accused both mozamis and nopoint. I'm not going to bother making a case on them when I'm not pushing for their lynches. It's not beneficial to have everyone say all their reads. We don't want to give the scum more information than they already have. Them knowing who everyone thinks is scum or not makes it pretty easy on them when nightkilling and pushing for a lynch. And you ignored what I said. Your case has changed to me agreeing and disagreeing with people, to me tunneling on you. You still haven't explained the two posts of mine you quoted in your last post.

And you admit to voting for someone you believe to be the dayvig. You are voting for someone you think is town. Only people who do that are scum.

@moz: what is your infatuation with ignoring posts?

Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?

And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.

Respond to that. Now. Where is MBL flailing around? And respond to the latter part as well.

He was not joking. He said so himself. You guys are the ones who's reading me wrong. My main point doesn't lie within the fact that he criticized his predeccessor, but rather that he's lying and making up stuff to fill his lies. My initial comment was essentially meant to pressure.

Point out where MBL has lied.

I'm not sure what to think of MBL's coaching. I'm more concerned with his coaching of Mozamis, because he seems pretty sure that Moz is scum.

[scotmany12]

Sorry. I've been pretty busy lately. I'll try to get caught up soon.

[scotmany12]

Moz: Respond to this in your next post.

Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?

And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.

Respond to that. Now. Where is MBL flailing around? And respond to the latter part as well.

And respond to the questions other have been posing in your next post too.

I'll post more either tonight or tomorrow. Just a quick post now before I go to work.

[scotmany12]

And why would it be so bad not to give all reads? Both the mafia AND the town will have access to more information, and I do believe the town can benefit more from it.

Giving all of our reads makes it very easy for scum to decide who to nightkill, and it makes it easier for them to influence the direction of the lynch.

Point out where MBL has lied.

I'm not sure what to think of MBL's coaching. I'm more concerned with his coaching of Mozamis, because he seems pretty sure that Moz is scum.

Gah!! How many times do I have to say this. MBL said that he did what he did to see if people are paying attention to his predecessor ( AND NOT A JOKE ). But he revealed his card when only 3 people have commented on his post, implying that is not his underlying purpose at all. When I inquire him about this he ignores admist you guys talking about how it was an obvious joke. Reread him please.

Point out where MBL lied. No more skirting around the question. No more saying that he revealed his card when only 3 people commented on his post. Point out where MBL lied in your next post. I want exact quotes.

Seem to remember Scotty popping up to back up some of MBls attacks

I did no such thing. While I am addressing you Moz, answer the questions I have posed you.

Moz: Respond to this in your next post.

Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?

And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.

Respond to that. Now. Where is MBL flailing around? And respond to the latter part as well.

No more ignoring me. Respond to this in your next post.

As for the petroleumjelly and MrBuddyLee argument, I am getting the feeling that it is a Town on Town argument. Both of you are making good points, but I do not think either of your actions are from a Mafia-oriented perspective.

What made you come to this conclusion?

@CES: What's your reasoning for voting for Moz?

[scotmany12]

@ Scotmany: re: MBL flailing around. It's just an impression thing. A few of his posts after his weird "joke" about his predecessor being scummy just looked like he was trying to come up with as many reasons as possible to cover his mistake.
Just check out his next few posts after his entrance and you'll see what I mean.

No. This is not sufficient. I am not going to go back and do your work for you. I want specific examples. Where did MBL flail around? No more telling me to go back and read his first few posts. You show me where he has flailed, with specific examples.

but also your lack of reads and commitment to them.
.

Yes I changed my mind. Baffles me why people think thats scummy.

It's not that you changed your mind. It's when you were pressured for you to explain your reads and statements, you avoided it for quite some time, and then when you did give a response, its that you don't believe it anymore.

Don't like Darkstrike's vote on Moz. Reasoning seems pretty weak. I get the impression that he doesn't actually think Moz is scum. Darkstike: why vote for someone you don't want lynched atm? If your vote is simply to pressure him into doing something, why tell him that?

[scotmany12]

Wont be able to make a substantial post until tomorrow. This week has been hectic for me. Lots of tests and papers, and add work onto that. Next week should be much better for me.

[scotmany12]

Woah. Walls of text. Drunk post without reading page 20 and the last few posts of page 19. Not in the state to comprehend them.

Vote: nopointinactingup

The guy is scum. He continually ignores my request for him to point out where MBL lied. He has tunneled worst than me. He has focused his attack on MBL on flat out false information. I see no concern for the town from him. Absolutely none at all. If anyone wishes, I can give a more thought out case on him when I'm sober.

I still think mer could be scum. He is definitely up there on my choices of who we should lynch. But his recent contributions have a towny vibe to them. I could explain more needed on that.

There might be some questions posed to me that I missed. If you have asked me to respond to something, and I haven't at the moment. Please say so. I will do so shortly.

[scotmany12]

I will get up a post first thing tomorrow when I wake up.

[scotmany12]

@MBL: Post #409 from Mer looks very sincere and towny to me. His whole tone about it. He could have focused mostly on him being the #2 suspect, but instead of that, he actually attempted to let people know where his thoughts are at. He logically explains why he would vote for you, even though I disagree with it.

I do have some questions for mer after rereading that post.

Mer: You said that you would probably vote for mbl had Moz turned up town. I'm pretty sure you explained why you didn't somewhere, but could you point that out to me? And if you didn't explain, then could you? Also, you said that you were pretty sure that there was at least one scum on his wagon. Is there anyone who was on the mozamis wagon that you think that applies to at the moment?

Also, could you elaborate on this:

I find scot's points on actingup to be fairly valid,

though his defensive stance on MBL does send quite a strange vibe...

I am not getting Amrun's attack on ces/mbl at all. It also feels like PJ is twisting quite a lot of what MBL has said, in order to support his point. I'm not viewing MBL as a hypocrite at all.

For those that have played with ces, does he normally not explain his votes like he has been doing in this game?

[scotmany12]

Hey Apokalyptika, who do you think is scum at the moment? Why aren't you voting for someone? This goes for Darkstrike as well.

[scotmany12]

The nopoint stuff went past my head, so I should probably devote some reading time into him to see people are willing to vote him (but noticing the likeliness of another slot replacement, I'm holding back.)

This confuses me. You're holding back on rereading nopoint because he got replaced? That doesn't make much sense to me. Everything that he did still happened, and everyone's accusations of him still occurred as well. Why would the fact that he got replaced keep you from rereading?

[scotmany12]

Also, Apokalyptika. You aren't voting in the current votecount. I looked back and saw that you actually did vote, but Shanba must have missed it.

[scotmany12]

Wow, game is pretty dead.

Ultimately my read on nopoint singularly is slightly scum due to the level of inconsistency in attacks on MBL.
Throw iamausername's recent debut in the game along with the level of tunneling and his disregard for personal survival from nopoint, and it swings over to slight town.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not quite following. What did iamausername do to change your read from scum to town? And how is nopoints tunneling a town point?

With deadline looming, those who are not voting should place one very soon. A no lynch would not be productive.

Mod:

Is meransiel getting replaced?

[scotmany12]

Generally, people claim when they are at l-1. It is far better for a pr to try to survive the night (there might be other prs that can protect them) rather than lie about their role and get lynched during the day. And its beneficial for them to claim right now, rather than wait and force us into a bad situation close to deadline.

So Iamusername. Claim in your next post. If not I will hammer you.

[scotmany12]

Oh wait, I'm already voting for him. Well if he doesn't claim in his next post, someone should hammer.

[scotmany12]

I'll reread apokalyptica tomorrow MBL. As of now, I'm getting a slight scum vibe from him.

[scotmany12]

scot, why are you waiting for tomorrow to evaluate Apok? Don't you think it would be a good idea to make sure you are making an informed lynch choice today?

When I said tomorrow, I meant today, as in Friday, as in when I wake up and have more time. Which I will later today. Why would you think I meant the next game day?

And why have you still not claimed?

[scotmany12]

Sorry. I'm at work now and ended up having to cover for someone so I'm working a double. My reread of apocalyptic wil have to wait till tomorrow

[scotmany12]

Oh, and the mafia helping to find PR thing? That is exactly what you're doing by forcing iam to claim.

Says the person who just outed two powerroles. Both of who were under little to no pressure. And we keep telling you its common policy for someone to claim when they are at lynch -1. If they claim powerrole, we decide if we believe it or not. It's far better than lynching them when they refuse to claim, and end up lynching a pr. If you aren't going to listen to a bunch of players that are more experienced than you, then I don't know what to say to you anymore.

And MBL: Iamusername has wasted so much of our time. He was at l-1 On monday. It is now about two days to the deadline. That is not protown at all. Refusing to claim like he did is a scum move.

After a reread of apokalyptica, im leaning towards town. His contributions have actually been pretty decent. His whole thing regarding mer/iam is pretty good. And I never bought the case on ogml.

[scotmany12]

Kunkstar7 claims in his next post.

I have no problem with this.

[scotmany12]

Why has this been the first time you used your double vote?

[scotmany12]

Also, my scotmany vote is not arbitrary. Yesterday, he popped in to say he had no problem with kunk claiming, but never voted him. Scumalicious.

You'd have a case if kunkster wasn't hammered about 13 hours after I first posted that. It was Easter Sunday. I was with my family and then traveling back to school. So yeah. I hadn't checked the thread again until after the hammer. Would you have rather me vote before he claimed?

[scotmany12]

scotmany, even if you couldn't get back in time to vote, it makes no sense to just say that you have no problem with kunk claiming his role. It doesn't achieve anything but a pale, noncommittal distancing. I think this is a better lynch than MBL, and I'm debating whether I want to put two votes on him.

It makes perfect sense. I had my reasons, that were related to ces, for wanting the claim. You're reaching. I never had any chance to commit to the lynch, since I wasn't around after he claimed.

Same goes to amrun who just ignored my earlier statement about not being around during the lynch.

I am still not seeing the case on MBL. I think he is town, and ces is town. I'm going to reread amrun soon and see what I think of her.

[scotmany12]

Finals week. Limited access until exams are done.

[scotmany12]

What? You want me to claim?

[scotmany12]

I have committed no crimes against anyone.

[scotmany12]

Did you track me to you ces, cause that's the impression that I am getting.

[scotmany12]

Dammit, scot, no. Why would a scum power role target me? If I had tracked you to me, you'd be on my town list.

I'm not even voting for you.

Yes, but you suspect me. Anyways, my bad.

[scotmany12]

lol.

VOTE: scotmany12

I pretty much just claimed to have targeted ces last night. Why are you voting for me?

[scotmany12]

I actually missed that post somehow, but I was voting for you for your guilty conscience.

You might as well fullclaim now that you've put your toe in the water.

Not ready to fullclaim. And I don't have a guilty conscience about anything. And I don't believe that you missed that post. You just happened to skip over that one post? You said you are voting for me for my guilty conscience. That must mean you read the other posts then.

[scotmany12]

Got prodded. One final done. I'll get something up over the weekend.

[scotmany12]

My top 3, and I'd be able to lynch any of the following three. Meransial, Apokalyptica (my gut tells me he is a scum doublevoter, due to the amount of powerroles the town already seems to have), and implosion, simply by process of elimination. I don't think MBL or Bella are scum.

MBL. I think Mer is more likely to be scum than Bella. This is pretty much how bella plays, all the time. I stated that Mer looked better near the end of day one. But his vote on kunkster is horrible. And just now his vote on MBL. He's noncommital, and just seems to be following people around.

Amrun is looking town at the moment. She seems sincere, though very off based at times. And recent developments make her seem town.

[scotmany12]

Vote: Meransiel

[scotmany12]

I don't believe both Meransiel and Bella are scum.

[scotmany12]

I just tracked down two games in which Bella was scum. Wrestling and LOST. She lurked through the first 29 pages of Wrestling before being replaced (with a v/la as an excuse for some of that) and she didn't hunt scum much in LOST and was eliminated early.

Not seeing how her play in this game is uniquely townish for her. If it is, please explain more clearly.

It's not uniquely town. It's uniquely Bella/Izzy. Go look at Bella/Izzy games when town. You'll see that she lurks throughout most of all her games.

[scotmany12]

I have fallen under the weather. Limited access for a day or two. Hopefully i'll feel better soon.

[scotmany12]

Avoiding prod. Definitely still think Meransiel is still the play. Amrun has been scummy, but recent events have made me believer her to be more towny than scum. I will not elaborate on that without her permission.

[scotmany12]

I've falling behind in this game. I am a little tipsy right now so nothing tonight. Tomorrow, I promise, will get something substantial up.

[scotmany12]

MBL makes a good point about oman. Town could be in lylo on day two with a scum doublevoter. So oman is looking to be town.

That leaves MBL, Amrun, Meransiel, Bella, and Implosion as likely scum suspects. MBL still looks town to me. I have been thinking lately, and I can't see a way for both neighbors to be town. With oman looking town, that would give the town four powerroles, not including the neighbors. What is everyone's thoughts on this?

I can't see both of them being town, and I'm leaning towards Meransiel as being the scum among them two.