Equinox wrote:This is interesting, Fishythefish. Why didn't I get the same message in my QuickTopic?
No particular reason. I posted various things in my first posts, in a not very systematic way.
When I opened the QTs, I didn't think they'd be terribly useful - I thought most things are better said in the thread. I have changed my mind about this to a large extent.
Spy, are you on moonbeams?
He's scum. Vote DRK and sheep DGB.
Together we will be the Vanguard of the High Priests and usher in a new era without these dark gods/priests whatever they are.
"This is the true face of a man who plays paladin."
I will not be counting any more votes that are not posted on a separate line. I don't mean to be needlessly anal about this, but I'm going to miss a vote one day, and it might be an important one. Post votes on a new line.
Sorry had to get my notes from a day ago and finish off on a few things I noted.
Here is my issues with DKR:
DRK: Why did you ask this to LL
DeathRowKitty wrote:LL, what do you think of the Jack-NS thing?
When all you did was LOL at the situation.
first few post full of fluff.
I don't like this answer about short deadlines
I would prefer a relatively short deadline at first that Fishy extends only if necessary. I'd rather we start out feeling a bit rushed and get more discussion time later than start out feeling like we have a lot of time and watch the deadline roll over us.
Why is rushing better day 1? Why would anyone town want discussion later?
Votes for TMH then in the same post states:
Blah blah, subtle town vibes from TMH. It makes me sad that it's possible someone who's town did what TMH did.
Leaving my vote where it is for now.
Why?
Next vote is on hito with no reason
Jumps on the LL wagon, to the Zang wagon.
Then has the fight with Tajo.
In short very little scum hunting from DRK. He jumps from BW to BW with no real scum suspects noted now.
I sense floating by scum hoping not to get noticed.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Andrius wrote:Yo DGB you mind if I votehop to DRK?
Go ahead, though I might shed tears all over those beautiful mangoes and ruin them.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
That's it. I didn't want to post yet another "Totally catching up soon, promise!" before I'd finished a big catch-up post. But this is taking forever, I have to run to work now, and I've been putting this off until it becomes an elephant in the room. So here. Part One of what was supposed to be a comprehensive post on every player in the game, which was supposed to have been finished on Tuesday.
The worst is that I was supposed to be V/LA for a week starting from February 20th, but at this point, I'll need to find a temporary replacement or else you'll never get a post out of this slot.
I'd thought about doing this catch-up post in alphabetical order, but to be honest, I'm lazy. So I'm going to start with the gimmes:
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: Part One
-
hitogoroshi:
I mentioned this in the QT, but I was a bit underwhelmed by his initial play. It wasn't that he'd done anything outright scummy, just that he wasn't blinding me with his obvtownness as usual. His Jack vote felt a bit lazy. However, the obvtown beacons have since turned on in full form. Aside from his activity and effort to scumhunt, he comes across as very sincere at points--for example, in this post. (By the way, hito, your ISO for this game was coincidentally already open during a certain conversation about reaction pictures.)
Verdict: town
-
Andrius:
Thank you for miraculously becoming more townish while I was writing this so I don't have to worry about you anymore. Others have noticed this, but he's grown a lot more relaxed and comfortable in the thread. I think that he wouldn't have a QT topping 100 posts with DGB were he scum. The one thing holding me back was that I find a few of his posts rather fluffy, and he seems quite buddy-buddy at times. But I think Andrius is always pretty friendly and jokey. Also, although I usually hate sheeping, to be entirely honest, Andrius is one of the few players whom I'm willing to follow the crowd on, simply since I know, anecdotally, that he's supposed to be an easy read, but I misread him in the one game I'd played with him.
Verdict: town
-
farside22:
My original random vote on her was for a pretty weak reason: she felt the need to post that she would look at the thread later when it had only been open for a few hours. But since then, her scumhunting has looked very protown, particularly her looks at individual players. Her paranoia of Fishythefish and constant prodding of him, as well as her theory that I'm faking my chats in the QT, also looks very genuine, as though she's trying to get to the bottom of this.
For the record, I haven't been significantly more active in the QT with Fishy than in the thread, aside from questioning him a few times, making a few useless fluff comments I wouldn't bother with in the main thread (like "I see LL is getting wagoned, but I'm not following closely enough to tell why"), and saving a half-finished post there.
Verdict: town
-
Jack:
I've already commented on my thoughts on the gambit. Now that Jack's made it clear that it wasn't real, I'm inclined to consider it as a town tell. If someone has meta of Jack doing something similarly outrageous as scum, now's the time to share it. I like his dismissing of DGB vs. tajo--it felt like a town player annoyed with a distraction, rather than scum trying to buy town cred after a tajo town flip. This also sounds genuine:
Problem is "Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack" is super scummy. It's the "my hands are tied!" scum excuse for a town lynch, a classic scumtell. I have suspicions that tmh always plays this way and genuinely believes things like that or I'd be voting him.
A couple of problems I have with Jack prevent me from confidently listing him as a town read. Firstly, he has receded into the background after his initial bold gambit. Secondly, some of his reads seem to come out of nowhere. I didn't like that he couldn't remember after the fact why he'd FOS'd farside and voted Lady Lambdadelta. "Oh, um...sure. They were scummy. I don't remember why, but they were scummy." I get succinct players, but Jack apparently why he was succinct. Also, he dismissed Andrius' ISO as "full of obvscum-ness." He also has a snarkiness to him this game
Now, this might be hypocritical, since I also suspected Andrius at one point. However, aside from me not being as familiar with Andrius's play as others here are, it's a law of the universe that my gut scum reads are always terrible, so I'm allowed to be wrong. Jack has no excuse, because he doesn't suck.
Verdict: townish side of neutral
-
Feysal:
I'll be honest. My initial "Feysal is town" was after a quick skim of his post and thinking, "hmm, he sounds reasonable. Also, he isn't posting as much IIoA as he did in my last game" (yeah, I know). When I saw everyone saying, "Yeah, Feysal is scum," that made me wonder if I'd missed something.
Reading his posts in more detail, I can definitely see why people have issues with him. He really goes on, and on, and ON about theory, and about the motivations about, in way more detail than is needed, while being rather short on suspects until asked. Seriously, I'm a verbose player, but he's practically saying, "Yeah, Jack probably isn't scum" over and over again. That said, his long posts have an earnestness to them, so I'm having trouble deciding if it's his posting style or a scumtell. Something I liked is that he mentioned that SX and Andrius both felt like their scumplay, which I read as genuine from someone who'd played in [REDACTED] with them. (Unfortunately, I think several other people listed them as suspects by that point, so he loses points for unoriginal thinking.)
I initially had him as null-to-townish read, but as I was writing this...oh, God. Voting SpyreX not because he suspected him, but because
he wanted to leave a voting record
--coincidentally, only
after
tajo called him out on a lack of vote. Talk about a way to make me feel antsy on the bandwagon. What I love is that he doesn't even mention tajo in that post; he just goes, "Yeah. I've just noticed, ha ha ha, that Benmage and I are the last two to vote." Also a bit nonplussed that I'm the one who apparently showed him the light on SpyreX. Um...what? I have the town cred of a NK-immune miller vig this game.
I'd also like more of an expansion on this:
Let's see, what did I miss? Fishy and Lady Lambdadelta arguing. I don't really see why this would be a big deal. Next, DGB and populartajo arguing. This looks much more interesting, and Andrius joining in is most welcome.
Um...who cares if it's a "big deal" or "interesting." You're a scumhunter, not a news reporter. Do you have any thoughts on who's coming out well in this fray?
Verdict:
Scummy side of null.
(Flip-flopping, I know!)
Zang/DTMaster:
Zang is someone I would find scummy, except the problem is that I've heard that this is basically his modus operandi as either alignment (now is when I have to be vague, because second-hand meta, ongoing games, inconclusive evidence, etc.). The Zang guide to scumhunting: take a post at random. Pick a random sentence. Ask a totally useless question about it. Lather, rinse, and repeat. Therefore, I find him pretty unreadable.
DTM's catch-up post looks solid, and faking a daykill is probably a slight towntell. His babbling about a network with code words sounds like paranoid town theorizing. But at this point, I need more to judge.
Verdict: Null
I'll probably change my vote when I finish this. Since I've already done SpyreX, that leaves...Equinox, Lady Lambdadelta, CMAR/Me=Weird, themanhimself, DRK, populartajo, and Benmage. themanhimself in particular is someone I should reread, because I'd thought he seemed more newbtown than newbscum, but he's disappeared once the pressure flew off him. Right now, I'm leaning scum on DRK because I hated his arguments, and am actually null-to-town on tajo, simply because of his boldness (kind of agree with everyone who hates his squabbling with DGB), but I'd rather reread them more thoroughly first before setting this read in stone. I have thoughts on the gods, but it's probably a better idea to bide my time and see.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm wavering on SpyreX. On the one hand,
Spy thinking I'm scum is a towntell
his clearing tajo on gut and references to chats with DGB sound genuine. Also, Feysal's vote on him made me leery. On the other, I'm still not getting that free, spontaneous obvtown feeling I usually get from SpyreX, and he hasn't followed up on his suspicions of me. I mean, he hasn't even tried to develop a case on Me=Weird despite having his vote on him all game. Also, I really have to squint to follow his thought process at times. He often jumps from Point A to Point D without explaining B and C, and answers Z and Q when I ask him W, X, Y, and Z. I need a Spyrese-to-Minaish interpreter. This is long, so I'll put my response to SpyreX in spoiler tags.
Spoiler: SpyreX
SpyreX wrote:Whaaaa
Dude, I didn't mention anyone's name before then.
(In fact, did you even post twice between my first and second posts of the game?) If anything, that's why you should be suspecting me.
Voting for farside, quoting nobody special, talking about Jack, inquiring about LLD, GIVING TOWN READS ON Equinox and Feysal, even vouching for tajo.
You posted more than a few words in your first two posts and mentioned a hard chunk of the game.
EVEN IN THE POST YOU VOTED FOR ME YOU SAID "It's weird that so many people have called Spyrex scum, but not one person is voting for him, by the way."
So the hell is this?
Oh,
come on
. Of course I didn't literally not mention a single name all game. It was a facetious reference to what a filthy lurker I've been. But there was a grain of truth to that comment; unless you count my RVS vote for farside22, my first two posts didn't contain a single scum read or concrete suspicion, and I explicitly said that I had no clue what was going on...and my God, I'm actually having an argument about whether I'm scummy because my contributions HAVEN'T been crappy so far. But anyway, no matter whom I'd voted for, it would have been someone I'd never mentioned before (unless I decided to backtrack on one of my town reads). Because I didn't mention that anyone was scummy!
Are you really using the "voting without reasons is scummy" argument (particularly since I don't think you've once given a reason for suspecting Me = Weird, despite repeating that he's scum over and over again)? I thought I'd made it obvious in my vote-and-run that there were reasons behind my vote. (But unfortunately, Fishythefish is the only one who can corroborate that I posted a partially completed case on SpyreX in the QT--although I started second-guessing it--so you'd have to take his word for it.) Moving a vote from a townish-looking player to a suspect is more constructive than not posting anything at all. And yes, I'd have obviously been happy if that vote had sparked a bandwagon on you, because I suspected you and it might draw more of a reaction from you.
Yes, yes I am. AND YOU YOURSELF SAID WHY. All of a sudden because I don't have my A game every little rat scurring around has been going "Ohh look SpyreX is scum because he's not ROCKING THE SOCKS OFF". You used this little bit of happiness to jump into the fray after mentioning me 0 under the reasons of 0.
I can't speak for others' reasons for distrusting you, but this is ridiculous. You can just as easily find arguments for why it's scummy to vote a popular bandwagon, or why it's scummy to vote someone whom everyone thinks is town. Now that I've given my reasons, you can evaluate whether you think they make more sense for town than scum, but other people also finding you suspicious is irrelevant.
(That said, to be honest, those familiar with your play disliking it probably gave me more confidence in my read, because it meant I wasn't taking crazy pills.)
And, yes, the reason for MWR is there and I'm pretty confident I don't need to explain it past floundering fishies.
I can think of a reason for why MWR's first two posts would merit a vote, but he certainly hadn't started "floundering" at that point. Humour me (unless you don't want to help me write my blurb on Me = Weird).
Actually, something that almost psyched me out of voting SpyreX is that, on the surface, he does say multiple times that we shouldn't lynch Jack, so I'm not sure how fair it is to accuse him of softly supporting Jack's wagon. Also, he got the upper hand in his back-and-forth with Nobody Special. But I still felt as though something was off about his stance on Jack.
It's just how he keeps on coming back to the fact that we need to check Jack one way or the other
(without suggesting a plan as to why), when virtually everyone in this game has moved on from Jack by now. I think this quote bugged me the most:
Swing and a miss.
I'm saying the Jack situation needs to be resolved SO IT GOES AWAY. So it isn't a focus and things can move forward.
Its too easy and there's TOO MANY PEOPLE CLAMORING ABOUTS IT FOR IT TO BE SCUM.
And "they've moved away now" is a cop out because I will eat all the hats in the multiverse if, later, that it doesn't get brought up again. And again. And again.
Maybe it's just that you missed Jack has admitted it was a gambit...but actually, yes. Everyone has moved away from it. No, seriously. Has one person said, "Hey, we should lynch Jack soon!" in the past few pages?
Maybe it's just that you missed Jack has claimed it was a gambit...but actually, everyone has moved away from him. No, really. Has anyone even suggested a Jack lynch within the last fifteen pages? Anyway, I should admit that it was partly just a gut feeling that your stance on Jack didn't feel natural--as if you were trying to milk town cred for being the first to declare he was town, but still keep on reminding people that we should.
However, lets be fair on the flipside of the issue.
Jack's status at this point has nothing to do with NS being the scum god. NS is the scum god because HE IS SCUM. Jesus. Look at the difference in methods and end-goals between ohh DGB and NS. (and, my unicorn princess, this is probably coloring PART of what we're talking about in the QT).
Just out of curiosity, what's your read on Fishythefish? I mean, ignoring Nobody Special's behaviour, of course.
Upping the stakes on tmh, as it were, also doesn't make sense as a true 'gambit' because in the scenario where he's called out and lynched IF TOWN then tmh goes to rope.
That said, with Jack's moves and rereading since it PROBABLY is a gambit and I'm a little sad.
Regardless, M=W is scum, NS is scum and you're sure moving that way.
Considering that Jack openly admitted he was lying, my guess is he was fishing for a reaction from tmh.
But why didn't you respond to any of this:
You think that absolutely, 100%, either Jack OR {Nobody Special, themanhimself} is scum. Am I getting this right?
But you don't want to lynch themanhimself today because you think he'll be so easy to read that we'll figure out his alignment eventually? E.g., if he looks super-townish, then we'll know for a fact that Jack is scum?
If you genuinely believed that Jack was telling the truth, why didn't you vote themanhimself?
mina wrote:For the record, I haven't been significantly more active in the QT with Fishy than in the thread, aside from questioning him a few times, making a few useless fluff comments I wouldn't bother with in the main thread (like "I see LL is getting wagoned, but I'm not following closely enough to tell why"), and saving a half-finished post there.
Fishy why didn't you call Mina out when she mentioned that she was sharing her thoughts in the QT about people?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
On my break at work, but I asked Fishy why he didn't correct you as well. <_<
In my defence, I never meant to give the impression that I'd been posting loads of insightful observations there, just that I was planning to post notes as I tried to catch up. And I did post my SpyreX case there and mention a few rough impressions. But it's not like Fishy and I have been having a big tea party all this time. The QT has fewer than twenty posts.
I'd say the best thing to do with Jack's gambit here is totally ignore it.
Agreed.
Nobody Special wrote:
Truthfully, it's anti-town at best, and scummy at worst.
I hate when people don't understand something and claim it as only 2 negative things.
themanhimself wrote: I've been a jester before
This site? Which game?
Lady Lambdadelta wrote: While I find his motives for it to be absolutely ridiculous, even scum has
no good reason
to lie about something like that. Essentially, NO ONE has a reason. It is now my opinion based upon current revelations, that it was all for the lolreactions.
I dont know how I have to read so much revolving the issue...I guess I blame tmh...but this should've been recognized many pages ago when people said NS would know his scum team..g-g.
At pg 13 or soo... posts are getting denser..
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
Oh and Mina can't not be town.... i dread catching up to reading more of her
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
farside22 wrote:Reading the argument between DGB and tajo I feel like a mom when I say this:
KIDS SHUT UP ALREADY. YOUR BOTH ACTING CHILDISH. I WILL GIVE YOU A TIME OUT SO HELP ME GOD!
Yeah...right now I don't think either are scum... I guess I'll have a better idea the more I read.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
CMAR's player slot is now officially townie. And it's funny that the mod just ninja'd me with the replacement announcement!
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
CMAR's player slot is now officially townie. And it's funny that the mod just ninja'd me with the replacement announcement!
9
I reserve the right to judge that for myself when the player actually makes a worthwhile post.
In other news I noticed the mod looking for a replacement for TMH, yup looks like that is site wide at the moment.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
themanhimself in particular is someone I should reread, because I'd thought he seemed more newbtown than newbscum, but he's disappeared once the pressure flew off him. Right now, I'm leaning scum on DRK because I hated his arguments, and am actually null-to-town on tajo, simply because of his boldness (kind of agree with everyone who hates his squabbling with DGB), but I'd rather reread them more thoroughly first before setting this read in stone. I have thoughts on the gods, but it's probably a better idea to bide my time and see.
posts are getting denser..