In the Court of the Gods (Game Over)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I assume you are referring to this:

This all being said, I wish to keep a further eye on Jack, but his lynch no longer provides the information it did before, and he is no longer the scummiest person in the game (now that I actually take the time to think about this, and make a half-decent post).

The fact is that at that point in time, Jack had just begun to reveal his gambit. I still thought the gambit could be scum driven, but it no longer condemned him as scum for certain. Also, there was no longer an information connection between NS and Jack.

If you look at my later posts, you will notice that I have stopped pursuing Jack completely. His play after the Gambit nonsense has become very town.

Finally, as a point of interest two different people have voted me for two opposite things.

Equi voted me because I "dropped Jack like a hot potato".
You are voting me because you think I "didn't really drop Jack".

There's an inconsistency there. Just thought I'd point that out, considering it means ONE of you is wrong/making shit up/lying.

Finally, TMH was not wrong for suspecting Jack at the time. What made him scum was his unwillingness to consider other targets (even CONSIDER. Not like I'm asking him to change his whole mentality, he would not even LOOK at other possible outcomes), and his shady way of trying to slide off the Jack wagon and onto me, without looking bad.

The points against him are

NOT

about him suspecting Jack. It's about how he went about suspecting Jack, and how he has now changed his entire stance, because Jack is no longer a easy lynch to get (by virtue of LAL).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So essentially, tl;dr version is: You're either misinterpreting my case on TMH, or you are intentionally misrepresenting it. Which is it Fishy?

[Jack]

Spyrex has been awfully quiet, and his vote is still from his first post.

[Fishythefish]

@LLD: Your case against TMH is that he was tunnelling on Jack - not looking at other players - and later that he slid off Jack as soon as it became convenient. The first would make total sense to a player who was saying what you were saying on Jack at the time - these are consecutive posts from you:

If we boil this down, and simplify everything, the facts still say that one of NS and Jack is lying.

So it's logical to lynch the one we CAN lynch, and garner knowledge this way, correct?

Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack

. I don't see anyway to move forward without resolving this glaring inconsistency and since we can't lynch NS we pretty much have to lynch Jack. Besides that, the way I'm seeing the situation, it's a lot more likely that Jack is the one lying, I can see motivation and a means for that at least where I can't with NS.

No.

FoS: TMH

I don't think these are likely stances to go together. Your own arguments made Jack a totally logical person to attack, and even to attack exclusively. If you believed the first post, I struggle to see how you could also believe the second.

Your point second point about tmh - that he moved off Jack when it became convenient - is a clear misrepresentation of what actually happened.

I think you misunderstand Equi. My understanding is that, like me, he disliked the way you lied about dropping Jack like a hot potato (the bit of his post you were thinking of was sarcastic). You continued to FoS him, without changing your reasons, right up until post 278 - a long time after there had been much talk of his gambitting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Am I not allowed to change my mind? As much as I found Jack to be scummy, the way in which TMH pursued him was just as bad.

How am I not allowed to think both are scummy when both their actions are suspect?

Also,

When Jack was shown to have a reason for his action, why am I not then allowed to move down my scum list to my next suspect?

Beyond those two questions, it would appear you have decided your opinion already. I highly doubt that if you don't accept my explanation now, that anything else will convince you otherwise. Especially considering how much you dislike when people change their opinions.

[Jack]

I agree with the couple people who have said it, it's just sound scumhunting to suspect someone and also suspect someone who you find to be attacking them in a suspicious way.

A) bussing
B) you can be wrong about the first person

[Fishythefish]

@LLD: where do I say I dislike changing opinions?

It is just fine to think two people are scummy when one is attacking the other. But your posts on Jack conflict with your reasons for thinking TMH scummy. You were attacking TMH for a position that was almost the same as yours; very strongly thinking Jack/NS was important, and Jack should be lynched. It is a hardly a stretch from "the facts say that one of Jack and NS is scum, and NS is unlynchable" to "we should absolutely definitely lynch Jack today", and you simultaneously said the first and criticised TMH for the second.

Obviously, changing your opinion is fine when Jack is shown to have a reason. That's just not what I'm saying - you held these conflicting stances at the same time. My point about changing your opinion on Jack is how you later lied about it - as well as about TMH on Jack - to fit with your narrative.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

All of my statements have reflected my opinions at the moment in time they were made.

The statement you are referring to is one well after I had unvoted Jack. By that point, I no longer had any suspicion of Jack. I would Un-FoS him, if that was done, but I didn't see a point to that considering how I had implied that I

No Longer suspected him

.

Is this understood?

[populartajo]

im actually in this game

post in 2.5 hours, peruvian time

[Lady Lambdadelta]

im actually in this game

post in 2.5 hours, peruvian time

I didn't realize time flowed slower in Peru. Should we expect this in 3 days then?

[Fishythefish]

@LLD: I'm talking about the two quotes in 378 (and related posting, but they summarise it well). Long before you unvoted Jack, let alone stopped actively Fossing him (as in, posting FoS: Jack).

[Jack]

Problem is "Pretty much the only thing we can do today is lynch Jack"

is

super scummy. It's the "my hands are tied!" scum excuse for a town lynch, a classic scumtell. I have suspicions that tmh always plays this way and genuinely believes things like that or I'd be voting him.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD: I'm talking about the two quotes in 378 (and related posting, but they summarise it well). Long before you unvoted Jack, let alone stopped actively Fossing him (as in, posting FoS: Jack).

Neither of those two quotes show me lying.

The "lying" thing you are talking about comes in a later post, WELL after I have dropped Jack.

Those quotes both come from a time where I suspected Jack. The second one comes from the fact that I suspected BOTH TMH and Jack.

When I unvoted Jack, it was because TMH became more scummy than Jack.

And eventually Jack became a town read for me.

Do you see the progression? I started suspecting Jack for lying. I then also FoS'd TMH for his actions.

I then saw Jack's gambit, but didn't entirely believe it. However, it made Jack less scummy than TMH. I unvoted, and switched their positions on my list and in my votes.

Then when I observed Jack's play, I came to the conclusion he was most likely town (now that he was no longer doing this gambit shit).

So I no longer FoS Jack, and I am happy with my vote on TMH. I am now moving on to investigating Spy, Mina, Zang and Feysal.

Do you see the logical progression? My opinion gradually changed over time. I dropped twice. Once when I unvoted him, and another time when I stopped suspecting him.

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

Andrius ( 1 ) Jack,
populartajo ( 0 )
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
CryMeARiver ( 2 ) SpyreX, farside22,
SpyreX ( 1 ) Mina,
Equinox ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
Feysal ( 1 ) CryMeARiver
Mina ( 0 )
themanhimself ( 3 ) hitogoroshi, Lady Lambdadelta,

Nobody Special,

Benmage ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
Jack ( 3 ) Andrius, themanhimself, Zang,
Lady Lambdadelta ( 1 )

Fishythefish,

Zang ( 3 )

DrippingGoofball,

Equinox, DeathRowKitty,
Not Voting ( 3 ) populartajo, Feysal, Benmage,
Total Votes ( 18 )

Deadline: February 14th at 23:00 EDT
With 18 able to vote, 10 needed to lynch.

[Jack]

"Jack ( 3 ) Andrius, themanhimself, Zang,"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oooooohhhh.

I forgot about Andrius. He'll need to be examined.

[Nobody Special]

PROD Andrius, please.

I am super busy today with almost no access to speak of. Expect Walls O'Text tomorrow, though.

[DrippingGoofball]

im actually in this game

post in 2.5 hours, peruvian time

I didn't realize time flowed slower in Peru. Should we expect this in 3 days then?

Nominated for Zinger of the Game.

[Andrius]

I'm here I'm here.

*Insert I've-been-unusually-busy-this-weekend that no one cares to know about, so yeah*

I meant to read this weekend; it hasn't happened. I WILL catch up.

[hitogoroshi]

LLD and Fishy looks town-on-town to me.

I am also suspicious of Spyrex (as I've mentioned in a couple of QTs). The main thing is just that he's done very little, which isn't something I associate with townSpyrex. Most of his posting has been talking about Jack/NS, which is the easiest thing in the game to come up with an opinion on.

From what I can tell, SpyreX is having some real life things and his activity is diminished in all of his games. Saying, "you're scum, because you'd be playing harder as town" doesn't seem exactly fair. Of course, this doesn't preclude him from being scum, but at least personally I like the little bit I've seen of him in thread.

I agree with the couple people who have said it, it's just sound scumhunting to suspect someone and also suspect someone who you find to be attacking them in a suspicious way.

A) bussing
B) you can be wrong about the first person

I have to echo this one. There's no rule saying all of your top scumreads have to make sense as scum together.

[themanhimself]

how he has now changed his entire stance, because Jack is no longer a easy lynch to get (by virtue of LAL).

Wait, what?! Are you kidding me? That's like accusing Bill O'Reilly of being too liberal, it's the entire wrong side of the spectrum. I've never let up on jack for a second and I've cast only one vote this whole game. I said I thought you were scummy as well but I never once said jack wasn't the scummiest person in the game. This is such a misrep it's basically propaganda.

[populartajo]

jack lolgambit in page 1 doesnt make sense, "5. Scum have day chat through a QT.

DRK is scum for the LOL with no further input after the gambit though AND his excuse after Andrius called him scum. (normal town reaction would have been to ask why). Post 16.

Andrius is town. As Lambadelta.

Me=weird is town VI.

DRK is so freaking obvscum for voting Me=weird for a stupid reason /trying to look active and scumhunter.

dont like hito, too much IIoA/avoiding random wagon.

mmmm, Im thinking Mina town for now (quesstions in post 93).

wtf is farside's 102? its the most scummy omgus ive seen in a while.

ok, jack is town, page 5 is full of jacktown, i also agree that dgb catching the gambit is more likely to make her the scum god.

themnahimself can be scum (he could be obnoxious townie truly suspecting jack). need to evaluate.

equinox is town for being the only one thinking in jack gambit.

spyrex is scum for lurking.

im getting a "plum-long-posts-mean-she-is-scum" vibe from feysal

Zang is being stupid but gut tells me he is town

[populartajo]

and now for fullhy caught up

town

andrius
crymeariver
equinox (who should get the BP)
Mina
themanhimself
Jack
LadyLambadelta

neutral

hito
zang (yeah i said gut tells me he is town but ive realized that i shouldnt do this with empking type of players)
benmage

scum

farside
DRK
Spyrex
Feysal

VOTE: DRK.

Im pretty sure on this, lets lynch him.

in regard to gods, NS is being stupid but feels townish, Fishy is kinda neutral, DGB would be my pick for scumgod.

[populartajo]

ive also realized that themanhimself is consistent town thinking Jack was genuinely scum so to the town list he went.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Consistent town? You're kidding me right? Since when is consistently tunneling a player a town move? At best it's null. I see no benefit in a town player focusing on one player only. It limits their effectiveness and makes all their other reads biased. No town motivation in doing that.