Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[SharkFinn]

Hello everyone. Catching up now.

[SharkFinn]

trying to read this game makes my soul weep. here are my reads so far

scum:
nhammen

leaning scum:
calcifer
EPM

WTF:
Battle Mage

leaning town:
DRK
Parama

town:
iamusername

will give some reasons later

^ Are my predecessor's reads, which I think are bad (for the most part)
Calcifer is obv town

Scum are:
DemonHybrid
iamusername
evilpackman.

More details to come.

[SharkFinn]

Willing to hammer. EPM needs to claim in his next post.

[SharkFinn]

Vote Evilpacman18

Sarcasm or not, that's a hammer.

Good job guys. Ill have more to say tomorrow, but yea. ^5 Town

[SharkFinn]

SensFan

tylerjarvis

don_johnson

4computer

SharkFinn

Untrod Tripod

Unless all 3 Eastern Mafia were on the werewolf wagon, one of these guys is the final Eastern Mafia.

Question: Did you factor in the fact that I hammered the 2nd eastern mafia member? Of course he outed himself and hammering was pretty much the best move for me (town/scum). I'm just wondering if that factor'd in?

I like Parama's reads on the wagon. Which basically just dooms DemonHybrid.

Vote DemonHybrid

with more analysis on the D1 wagon of werewolf555 to come.

[SharkFinn]

I will support an nhammen lynch tomorrow.

UNVOTE: DemonHybrid
VOTE: evilpacman13

I'm more convinced that EPM is scum, and I think my previous vote has served its purpose.

bvoigt: Your votes on evilpacman13 when he was lynched had no reasoning to it, aside from bandwagoning. What exactly made evilpacman scummy and why did you make the first post about nhammen, yet completely abandon it both days.

[SharkFinn]

Well, I'm trying to figure out what to post as a catchup, but nothing has really happened since I've been gone, so that's kind of difficult. Well, DGB turned up, that's always good. She looks like town DGB so far, I think.

Dearest Moderator, the following people are distinctly in need of prod/replacement:

Untrod Tripod
werewolf333

I don't think either of them are currently slated for replacement, and neither have posted in almost a week.

Unvote

VOTE: werewolf

I think we should wagon this guy just to see if he even notices.

Iamusername: you are similar to bviogt above. You post, but little content whatsoever about why you are voting someone, but of course you actually make your reason pretty clear though. You targetted two players who were the most inactive and your only other vote was evilpacman (the first RVS and the last a bandwagon vote). Explain why you went after the players who were "less active than necessary" and why the evilpacman vote late?

[SharkFinn]

nhammen: i think is probably town, and whenever I get the chance to read his wall posts in depth I will and see how town i think he is.

Empking; from past experience, this is how he plays >_<. Soooooo I leave it be atm.

Calcifer: Nacho is the man. Also think he's town. (off chance of West, but SEVERLY doubt).

Parama: reading the analysis, I think she's town and I came to the same conclusions as her. I doubt all 3 East scum are on the wagon (though possible) and I doubt he's West (by the BM tunnel vote).

DemonHybrid: Well everyone's posted quite a bit about him, so Ill read through later and pick the best arguments, but from my reads earlier, I feel he's a good lynch today.

That covers the werewolf555 wagon. . Ill do scum by scum analysis, focusing in on Battle Mage.

[SharkFinn]

>_<. My bad. Typo.

[SharkFinn]

Reading BM: Calcifer and Parama are town.

[SharkFinn]

Reading the predecessors of BM, I gain absolutely nothing. >_<

Also, who is DeathRowKitty's associate?

[SharkFinn]

In light of VCA, yes.
Still want you dead, though.

QFT

[SharkFinn]

In light of VCA, yes.
Still want you dead, though.

Cool. For a second, I was going to vote you.

If I am today's lynch, leave Parama alone, please.

Vote: nhammen

. Probable Western Mafia. Battle Mage mentioned him in the first post when replacing in which may be a large tell.

And if you happen to not be today's lynch (which you will probably be), what does that mean about Parama?

[SharkFinn]

Parama and Calacifer are the scum. Calling it now.

Vote: Calc

I know I am going to get absolutely nothing, but might as well ask. How are Parama and Calacifer connected? Or are they separate scum? Why so?

Parama and Calacifer are the scum. Calling it now.

Vote: Calc

Lol.
LOoooOooOol. Emp just claimed scum.

Eastern or Western? And scummier than DH? You want to switch votes or continue with DH?

Early Battle Mage (fake?) connection suspicions:

If Nhammen is scum, maybe DemonH is scum too.

This one is the wrong way around, but is another example.

Parama-EPM duo works. DH maybe mafia. Actually, DH and Nhammen?

Here. He could be trying to saturate the thread with these connections, since this is soon after Calcifer pointed out DGB's false connections. On the other hand, note the inclusion of DH again.

Still favoring DH scum.

Hmm...nhammen, do you think that Battle Mage is the type of player to bus DH, because I am doubting the scenario that they are on separate teams. I agree that BM is totally setting up duos, but maybe we need to rethink DH scum.

[SharkFinn]

Parama and Calacifer are the scum. Calling it now.

Vote: Calc

I know I am going to get absolutely nothing, but might as well ask. How are Parama and Calacifer connected? Or are they separate scum? Why so?

Couldn't tell you.

Nhammen: Gut

>_>. Ok, fine. Let's reword it for you. Are Parama and Calacifer aligned scum or not?

[SharkFinn]

Parama and Calacifer are the scum. Calling it now.

Vote: Calc

I know I am going to get absolutely nothing, but might as well ask. How are Parama and Calacifer connected? Or are they separate scum? Why so?

Couldn't tell you.

Nhammen: Gut

>_>. Ok, fine. Let's reword it for you. Are Parama and Calacifer aligned scum or not?

Haven't the foggiest.

So why are they scum?

[SharkFinn]

Unvote DH

Rethinking DH scum, especially with the above post.

Also done trying to get something out of empking. >_<

[SharkFinn]

EPM is eastern. Nacho and Parama cannot both be eastern, unless its 4-4-8 (O_o).

[SharkFinn]

Apologies to nhammen. I cant read Empking worth shit. This is the only way I can read him. Plus this wagon feels good.

Vote Parama

I am the hammer again.

[SharkFinn]

I hammer 2 Eastern scum. GDI why cant i hammer western scum??? >_<

[SharkFinn]

Vote Calcifer

According to DH. This is hammer. THis will verify Empking which is good for us! .

[SharkFinn]

EWOP: Whenever its not late, Ill actually read Calcifer's posts (especially his wall one)

Will say his sudden change of heart from "UT is town" to "Sharkfinn's player slot is obv scum" is desperation from my PoV.

[SharkFinn]

He has some sense. Empking could be gambiting (seeing his team in a strong position) and sacrifice Calcifer for the cause. Of course thats more WIFOM than anything.

[SharkFinn]

Im VT as well.

I was about to call Don out on not being mason (seeing a lack of connection between him and chk/DRK), but I am mistaken. Don is mason imo.

Im going to call out on iam as first of the remaining two scum for the reason that:
1. He's acted scummy most of the game, playing anti-main stream and opportunistically jumping on werewolf555.
2. His last "content post" before he went VLA consisted of calling WIFOM out on Don. Calling WIFOM is scummy imo.

Though, I will not vote him until he returns, hopefully with content.

[SharkFinn]

Why do you say there are two scum remaining?

Assuming that EPM's mafia are gone and no SK, we have 2 left. >_>. If it's one, we're ok. if its 2, then its basically lylo. It cant be 3.

Scumdar ping is noted by your question.

I was about to call Don out on not being mason (seeing a lack of connection between him and chk/DRK), but I am mistaken. Don is mason imo.

what changed your mind? drk left an extemely convoluted breadcrumb, if you picked up on it i will send you a dollar.

When DRK died, you mourned his death, saying he had his stuff together. I figured that was a crumb. Ill look for the other crumb, you mentioned.

[SharkFinn]

3 Eastern and 2 western are dead....so, how do you figure 2 left?

OOOPS! Miscounted >_>.

Yea okay, only 1 scum left. My bad.

Well. in that case, still think Iam is best lynch.

and remove the previous statement made to bvigot.

[SharkFinn]

Oh yeah, and I'm vanilla.

Empking: ^

[SharkFinn]

Vote Iam

Ill pass the hammer on to someone else. 3 of 6 scum is good enough for me. XD

[SharkFinn]

Unvote, Vote bvoigt

Another hammer by me again. iam just saved his ass another night (if any).

Also

Haylen: could you not make the night so long since its down to essentially 5p (if we have a night)?

We'll see...~ Hayl

[SharkFinn]

I will say that if DH wins this game as scum, he deserves the win for surviving to this point.

Having said that, Im going to relook at his D1 interactions and see what I can find.

[SharkFinn]

Demon Hybrid & Nacho

Vote: Evilpacman18

I don't like that you start out the game voting for everyone you've played with before, honestly. It seems like you're setting them up where they can't vote you without OMGUSing, and they also happen to be the ones that know you best, and thus will have the best chance out of all of us as pegging you as scum. Although, I find it VERY interesting that the person you ended up voting was DemonHybrid. Perhaps he's your scumpartner, considering you confirmed at about the same time AND you happened to vote for him with your first RVS? That's just a coincidence I'm not willing to believe.

Well, he's not.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

See? Totally not buddies.

Sorry, a bit off my game.
I should've known the first two people to post in the topic couldn't be scum together.

TOWN:
DemonHybrid
Nachomamma8

SCUM:
evilpacman18

If EPM is scum, so is Guderian.

I'd agree with what DH has said wholeheartedly. Adding a reason for picking a name UNPROMPTED shows that he's nervous about his choice, so he wants to act like he put more thought into it than he actually did. And, he's definitely not the type to tie himself to his scumbuddy by stating their name out of a group of two people, so yeah, I'd agree with that assessment.

TOWN:
Nachomamma8
DemonHybrid
Parama

SCUM:
evilpacman18

Come on, the rest of you, don't be afraid to post. It's not like you're going to be able to hide from me forever...

Thank you for your response, I was wondering what was going on with you hanging out and then leaving.

My EPM vote was not serious at the time. So, you're wrong about that. My confirmation that if EPM is scum, then you are IS serious and what I was talking about. So you're wrong.

I did not set up a chain of lynches, either. "If EPM is scum, then you are" only sets up your lynch if...well, EPM is scum. And you seem to be freaking out on the premise that I made that up. Which means you're soft defending EPM. Cool.

You can thank EPM for setting himself up as scum and then including you through a mind-fuck game. IF EPM is scum, then so are you. If he is not, I need to reread you, but you've contradicted something already, so I don't have high hopes for you, but we'll see.

DH and Nacho are already hitting it off, double teaming style.

DH is setting up lynches too. XD.

Iamusername

VOTE: evilpacman

Seems like Nachomamma has got this game sewn up already. Good job.

Hai. My name is iamausername. I drive a bus!

Im trying to figure out if you truly believe what you're saying or not, because if you do you should be lynched, Immediately.

For DH to

truly believe

what he is saying (that is, that you are scum with evilpacman), he would need to be either a) town, or b) scum with you and evilpacman.

So which is it? Are you trying to lynch a townie or are you bussing?

What is this? More signs of bussing with Nacho and loading questions??? Le gasp.

Iam and DH are scum with Nacho/Calcifer. LE GASP!!!! XD

Guderian:

Mind explaining how you came to this conclusion DH?

oohh, threats. Love those from town too.

For DH to truly believe what he is saying (that is, that you are scum with evilpacman), he would need to be either a) town, or b) scum with you and evilpacman.

So which is it? Are you trying to lynch a townie or are you bussing?

Erm, no. Your false dilemma is noted though. People seem to love these. If DH really believe his logic, he is scum. His ideas are scum. Is play is scum.

Did you not receive a town role PM iam?

It clearly states two scum teams.

You are insinuating that there is a three person scum team. Obviously, this makes no sense to have two three person scum teams in a 16 player game. So come back with better conspiracy theories next time.

Cool. I am firmly behind a lynch of DH by page three.

Lets look over what you've done this game, and which you admit is

SERIOUS REASONING AND VOTING.

So lets judge it seriously.

1. You actually believe in your magical candycane wonderland that you've nailed Evil as scum. Based on what I'm not sure. Is your ridiculous question at the start of the page? Cool. Everyone this is his reason, which he has confirmed as serious.

Well, he's not.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

See? Totally not buddies.

Cool. Glad youre so set on that.

2. You've essentially tried for some unknown reason to set up an illogical chain of lynches. X so naturally lets do Y, which of course makes no sense. Tell me, of the other people who hasn't posted, who is scum? I'd love to see this.

Your thinking is a very pro-scum chain of logic. Your advocating a serious lynch on someone, and then another serious lynch on someone; without reason, or direction, or intent.

3. You seem to think I'm 'attacking' you. You dont say it, but your posts went from jovial to dead serious in the span of a page. Why? You think other people might notice how stupid your reasoning is here.

4. You try and pigeon hole me into what ever position I take into cool, theres a scum. If I post without a vote, you declare me 'ignoring your 'case''. If I vote EPM I'll be the 'busser'. If I vote you as I have done, I'm declared straight up scum. No. Sorry. Wont work.

You were forced into defending an illogical position, and you hope others wont notice.

I repeat, lets see if town can actually lynch someone who is LEGITIMATELY scummy by page three .

Not sure what nacho is doing.

Guderian knows his shit. He smells scum all over these two. Poor guy.

This is all from the first two pages and both are scum already. XD.

[SharkFinn]

How many other townies and scum in this game gave different numbers of scum and SK possibilities at the beginning of the game, iam?

Both of you two did, meaning one town and one scum did at least. XD

[SharkFinn]

Shark, that was the most idiotic thing I've ever read.

Iam and DH are scum with Nacho/Calcifer.

LE GASP!!!! XD

Even IF the town to scum ration was 9:4:3...

Nailed to the Perch:
8. don_johnson (Rep. 4computer D1)
12. iamausername
15. Sharkfinn (Rep. UntrodTripod D2)
16. DemonHybrid

Bolded indicates the sarcasm. >_>.

Don Johnson knows well.

[SharkFinn]

Between Demon, Evil, Nacho/Myself (I suppose), Guderian, and Parama...
...There are at least two scum. Before I paid attention to the 'two scumteams' phrase (that was brought up on pages 3-4, when I was reading 2-3), my gut was SCREAMING, "BUSSING! BUSSING! I SMELL BUSSING!" So, they might not be bussing (or maybe they are), but they certainly are still scum. Well, 2 of them are, anyway
The obvious choice is Demon and Guderian, 1 scum in them, but I'm not fully convinced that the other is town. Just seems, well, too easy.

Demon also LOOKED town, logically, but my gut is screaming at me, "DEMON IS SCUM!" (I hate how often I use my gut early on, but it can prove to be rather accurate.)
Demon constantly referring to other players doing the same exact tactic reads as highly suspicious to me. Let's just say I have a good reason for thinking that. Not to mention, the heavy buddying to Nacho, who shares my playerslot if you actually see this.
Iamausername's vote is fairly weak. On a good player, and I agree that Nacho probably got it right, but I'm not convinced iamausername is sincere.

(That said, [like Nacho's opinion, apparently] it didn't scream from my gut, "BUSSING!" I wouldn't be surprised to see iamausername as scum on a different scumteam from evil if both/either evil/Guderian are scum as I believe.)

This post unnerves me. It might just be iamausername in general, though. My reads on him in the only other game I've played with him were...shall we say...quite......off. (Want a link? Well...read it and laugh at how much I suck. Going against iamausername and Yosarian2 at the same time, needless to say, was a BAD idea. )
-iamausername LOOKS like town in his posts. I've looked at the surface meaning of his words, and found nothing suspicious in them. I need to dig deeper. My gut seriously did not like him. I need to see the meaning behind his words to get a better read. He's definitely leaning scum, to me.
-UT looks town, but if Demon is scum, I think UT is as well.

-Demon's posts look town, but he looks like he's bussing to my gut.
I must be tunneling already. This post looks like town by logic, but my gut is telling me that it's off. Again. >_<
*So, The scum are within Evil, Guderian, iamausername, UT, and Demon, plus one of my neutrals, most likely. That's my first impression. (Though, again, I'll be rereading the thread several times to make sure.)
*My neutrals are Azelf, werewolf, chk, 4computer, and ender, though ender is leaning town.
*It also figures that the remaining players are therefore on my town list: Parama, Tyler, nhammen, Ross, and Empking.

Im intrigued. Both Nacho and Mastin openly called DH town while barely mentioning but still calling iamusername town. The gut read is interesting and I will look at this some more. This is Mastin's entry reads.

[SharkFinn]

You do know that I was basically saying that based on the inital reads of Nacho/Mastin/DH/Iam that I concluded that both of you were extra scummy for exactly the same reasons, hence "OMG YOU BOTH ARE SCUM!!! LE GASP XP"

I seriously am having a hard time here deciding which of you is scum.

[SharkFinn]

Seriously, both of you piggyback'd Nacho/Calcifer early game.

Why exactly did you do this?

[SharkFinn]

Well, I'm trying to figure out what to post as a catchup, but nothing has really happened since I've been gone, so that's kind of difficult. Well, DGB turned up, that's always good. She looks like town DGB so far, I think.

Dearest Moderator, the following people are distinctly in need of prod/replacement:

Untrod Tripod
werewolf333

I don't think either of them are currently slated for replacement, and neither have posted in almost a week.

Unvote

VOTE: werewolf

I think we should wagon this guy just to see if he even notices.

Iam: explain this post for me.

It led to 3 other votes on werewolf immediately.

[SharkFinn]

I sooo want it to be DH but idk, my arguments about both are the same.

Both buddied with Calcifer off the bat.
Both have "setup lynches"
One's just been more active than the other.
But the inactive one is more genuine.

>_<

[SharkFinn]

^ I like this post.

[SharkFinn]

The reason I brought up the post is that you requested a prod on 2 players, but vote for one of those you prodded, which seems odd, but I like your answer.

Vote DemonHybrid

Doubt has been removed.

[SharkFinn]

I'm wondering why you asked Iam about his posts and not me =|

I already established a mixed read on you. I had a null read on him.

[SharkFinn]

OK, I must profess to feeling a little concerned about the fact that as soon as don says he's thinking DH is most likely scum and I'm town, Shark suddenly loses his doubts about me and votes for DH. That's a bit of a big coincidence to swallow.

Fair argument. I did feel better with Don Jon calling you town.

I do not like DH's post as he does have some say. He needs to decide if he believes iam is town or I am. (of course it doesnt affect me as I still think DH is slightly scummier)

I'll also say this is dragging out way too long, imo. We need activity and the only way its happening is by votes.

[SharkFinn]

@iam: The best I can see is that DH was basically putting himself in a very defensive position and putting himself in hole? Idk tbh what the hole reference is toward. Maybe bad logic? What are you thinking UT meant by it?

tbh, at that time of his post, DH was in a defensive position basically protecting his "if EPM is scum, then Guardian is scum too" position as well as getting onto EPM for critizing Nacho (soon to be Calcifer).

Reading back again and DH's mentions a statement where he basically critizes a player for chainsawing another (i'll go back and find it), yet DH basically chainsaws EPM for attacking Nacho since EPM was not going to call him obvtown. I know as town, I've played the way EPM did (in that regard) so Im thinking DH is overreacting, thus the chainsaw.

[SharkFinn]

Parama. Easier to say.

If EPM is scum, so is Guderian.

DH, despite whatever you say, you setup this lynch. Whenever EPM flips, you would have autovoted Guderian by default. Sadly your logic was wrong still. You bet that he'd pick the town and not his buddy but it was reversed. ahahaha.

You overly defended your setting up the lynch which you refused to budge on. You kept emphasizing "IFFFFF EPM flipped scum" but the fact is that you trusted your partner's read (aka Nacho) of EPM and basically setup the lynching an Eastern + a town mislynch. sadly Guderian was modkilled but EPM was still lynched over you.

To reanswer Iam's question. Digging of the hole was protecting an illogical stance to take. He defended his setting up of a lynch.

[SharkFinn]

Exactly. He's not obvtown. Could be scum. Not saying he's likely to be, not saying I have a case on him or the evidence with which to build one. Just everyone's got him on their town lists. That's never good for town. If he is scum, he's already in position to coast his team to the win.

Ok so I reread and I didnt see DH "really chainsawing" but he did defend EPM. I kinda think DH was right (logically) in stopping that.

Ignore previous chainsaw comments.

[SharkFinn]

I didn't really setup a lynch on Guderian;

it was RVS

and I was piecing together information. It happens.

How many people in the early game defended nacho or praised him for being town at the time? He was niversally considered town, so singling me out on that point alone isn't fair, no matter if you call it a "chainsaw" or just plain defending.

My EPM vote was not serious at the time

. So, you're wrong about that.

My confirmation that if EPM is scum

, then you are IS serious and what I was talking about. So you're wrong.

I did not set up a chain of lynches, either. "

If EPM is scum, then you are" only sets up your lynch if...well, EPM is scum

. And you seem to be freaking out on the premise that I made that up. Which means you're soft defending EPM. Cool.

You can thank EPM for setting himself up as scum and then including you through a mind-fuck game. IF EPM is scum, then so are you. If he is not, I need to reread you, but you've contradicted something already, so I don't have high hopes for you, but we'll see.

I HAVE SAID THIS LIKE 5 TIMES. IF EPM IS SCUM, I BELIEVE GUDERIAN IS SCUM. IF EPM IS TOWN, I NEED TO REREAD GUDERIAN. 5 TIMES.[/size]

You said EPM WAS a RVS but you later made it serious. When it was serious, you defended your position. Again, when your buddy claims that someone is scum then you trust the read as well. If EPM flips, you set up a lynch. You gave yourself an out, but you still set up a lynch. EPM was a scumdriven wagon for D1 (Nacho is a good driver BEEP BEEP).

My point is still there. You set up a lynch. You admit you set up a lynch. Yes it isnt 100% set, but you laid it down, giving yourself an out if you were wrong.

[SharkFinn]

awww stupid tag didnt make the gigantic quote size you made.

[SharkFinn]

DemonHybrid: Fair argument, but as mentioned I believe you trusted your associate (Nacho) in his read (since he planned to set himself up as town leader (leading everyone to sheep to his will). Of course Empking broke the game open with 2 reads. Yes you voice suspicion but I still feel binding two players up like that is not good. It could lead to a mislynch in the future.

[SharkFinn]

o. And who else was doing it? I must have missed it.

[SharkFinn]

iamusername: Why me over DemonHybrid?

[SharkFinn]

DH: fair point. Well. Gaaaaa. DH's posts are increasing in quality. Was I wrong? /me has to rethink this.

[SharkFinn]

What Battle Mage stuff?

[SharkFinn]

Im town. and Im lynched? ;-;

You know that no one once mentioned a reason why I was scum today, yet i was scum...>_>

Good game Iam, >_<

[SharkFinn]

I felt it before but today yea. I wanted to rethink it over btw about the DH scum but damn.

O well.

[SharkFinn]

Im disappointed in DJ's play during the end game :/.

DH was doing a lot better and I was on the edge of unvoting.

[SharkFinn]

Maaan that was a long last day. I kept looking back at the thread and seeing nothing new. That don hammer kinda surprised me. I was expecting him to post what Battle Mage stuff he was talking about, and have the day drag on even more. Also, Shark was obvtown!! What happened? I also had DH as town after day 1. I wish I were alive on the last day.

Which reminds me: do we get QTs?

Ask DonJon. Idk what happened. I was suprised and still just idk. I had no reasons thrown at me to be lynched. I mean the most you could argue was that I seriously overanalyzed DH's "setting up" a lynch. That's all i got. There was no reason i saw. Iam's vote on me plus DH's behavior at the end made me want to unvote badly but idk. I didnt get a chance. I wanted a reason why the vote on me then I would unvote DH and switch. >_<.

It was fun to hammer 3 scum in a row. I throughly enjoyed that .

[SharkFinn]

Dang. SharkFinn needs a title like "Hammerhead". FOUR hammers in a row?!?

Done

<3

I did not intentionally set myself up to hammer, but it just happened to be so. XD

[SharkFinn]

/me is now a hammerhead

[SharkFinn]

sorry guys. when i said "iam is town" and neither of you blinked i figured i was right. should have listened to the little voice in the back of my head...

I believed it at the time. i was rethinking it when iam voted it. It felt very odd for some reason. And again, I tried hard to find something and yea I pushed too hard on DH, but Iam just was there i felt or something. idk.