Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[DemonHybrid]

/confirm

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Parama

as always.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, he's not.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

See? Totally not buddies.

[DemonHybrid]

I like being able to possibly figure out 1/2 of the scum after just one post.

EPM, pick a name: Parama or Guderian. Not in regards to anything in particular, just which one appeals most to you.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: 1/2 meaning 1 or 2, not one half.

[DemonHybrid]

If EPM is scum, so is Guderian.

[DemonHybrid]

You forgot Guderian on your scum list.

[DemonHybrid]

If EPM is scum, so is Guderian.

This is utter nonsense on so many levels.

Are you serious? If so, you deserve to by lynched before page 3.

Vote DemonHybrid

Is mastin hydraing with anyone or not?

Very serious.

By the way, the town reaction is "oh, then I hope EPM is not scum then", not "WHAT HOW DARE YOU GOOD SIR VOTE, LYNCH FUCKING DIE!"

Just saying.

[DemonHybrid]

I also like how that question was extremely rhetorical. I'm becoming more confident with the EPM vote by the second.

[DemonHybrid]

The question is not rhetorical.

"Are you serious? If so, you should be lynched. *votes*"

Not rhetorical at all. Nope.

Not a bit.

Nah ah.

[DemonHybrid]

So, Guderian, did you spend like 6-10 minutes hanging out in the New York forum for your own health? Or did you not know what to say?

[DemonHybrid]

Thank you for your response, I was wondering what was going on with you hanging out and then leaving.

My EPM vote was not serious at the time. So, you're wrong about that. My confirmation that if EPM is scum, then you are IS serious and what I was talking about. So you're wrong.

I did not set up a chain of lynches, either. "If EPM is scum, then you are" only sets up your lynch if...well, EPM is scum. And you seem to be freaking out on the premise that I made that up. Which means you're soft defending EPM. Cool.

You can thank EPM for setting himself up as scum and then including you through a mind-fuck game. IF EPM is scum, then so are you. If he is not, I need to reread you, but you've contradicted something already, so I don't have high hopes for you, but we'll see.

[DemonHybrid]

First, you're blowing my mind. In a bad way.

What does the fact that there are two scum teams have to do with ANYTHING that we've said so far?

And my logic thus far is this:

EPM votes and unvotes Parama, then you, then me. That seems scummy to both Nacho and I (which, by the way, we have the EXACT same thought process. By pegging me as scummy and not him, that's either tunneling or bad scummy logic aimed toward me).

By doing something like that, ASSUMING EPM is scum, he would probably include one of his buddies. Sorry EPM, but you aren't the most experienced of players, so if you were scum, you'd probably do something like that.

At the time when I asked the question, EPM was already under some fire. So I asked him to pick a name that appealed to him. And he picked Parama, so I chose you as his buddy, ASSUMING that he is scum. The reasoning for this is since he's already under fire, he would want to distance himself subconsciously from his partner, so he picked Parama, assuming that I'd associate EPM with him.

So there's the reasoning for my "If EPM is scum, so is Guderian". Anything else?

[DemonHybrid]

First, you're blowing my mind. In a bad way.

What does the fact that there are two scum teams have to do with ANYTHING that we've said so far?

Well then, I'm playing with the mindset that we have more players. I see this point and need to re-evaluate a thing or two.

[DemonHybrid]

1/4 of the total players in every game are scum (more or less, on average). This would correctly mean that there would be two teams of two scum.

It doesn't seem right that mini themes can have the same number though. UT's post has to do with our involvement in Skillville obviously, but maybe he's right about an SK and doesn't know it.

Fucking christ, why are we discussing set-up this early anyway?

[DemonHybrid]

V/LA until tonight/tomorrow. Fixing up a house.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm back. Parama is most assuredly town, even if he did sheep a little bit. He's making his own decisions. I need a little bit more info on UT until I can make a clear read on him.

Responding to EPM's post.

[DemonHybrid]

Your question was so broken. What was the correct answer? I had three choices.
If I answere Parama, Guderian and I become scum.
If I answere Guderian, Parama and I become scum.
If I refused to answer, I become twice the scum. You can't reaction test properly if all my reactions will enforce your theory that I'm scum. Again, especially one that's based off of a single post.

Wrong.

If you answered Parama, Guderian is scum

if you are scum

.
If you answered Guderian, Parama is scum

if you are scum

.
And in actuality, if you had refused to answer, that would have looked more town than anything else. It answers the absurdity of the question without having to make up an excuse, like Nacho said you did and what I agree with. Guderian's soft defending of you is VERY weird in this case; he has nothing to fight against, especially since I didn't come right out and said "Guderian is scum."

I said "Guderian is scum if EPM is scum". So what does he have to worry about unless he has inside info? His reactions ARE scummy, especially when he's defending against something that he doesn't need to defend against.

See but if I didn't add a reason, the outcome would've been the same (me and whoever I don't pick are scum) AND I would have been forced into saying why I picked the name when there wasn't even supposed to be a why in the first place:

is moot. It was a subconscious mind game.

I like Parama's suspicion of me and pegging Nacho as town. He's using his brain. But he's a very sharp scum player as well, so I have a slight eye on him, but I don't think we have much to worry about. Reads have not changed.

My list so far:

Town
Nacho
Parama
iamausername

I dunno
UT
ender

Scummy
tylerjarvis
Guderian (due to reactions)
EPM

Tyler is scummy because he has a lot of filler, but not any substance. So much info is already on the table and he tosses it aside to talk set-up. I'm not ruling him as concrete scum quite yet.

[DemonHybrid]

@EPM: Nothing Nacho has done is even remotely scummy. Why would I even consider him a scum suspect? Deflect more.

Not saying consider him a scum suspect. Saying don't consider him obvtown.

...If he's not obvtown, then he SHOULD be considered a scum suspect. Everyone should be suspected until considered obvtown. You're either town or you aren't.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't think anyone is closed to the idea that he could be scum. He just has not done one single scummy thing so far this game.

[DemonHybrid]

Not a word about EPM. Not a word about Guderian. Not a word on my mindfuck game, Nacho's position, Guderian's soft defense of EPM, not of Parama, not of ender, not of ANYTHING. Not even of UT himself, just a vote on him due to his SK joke.

Only setup speculation.

[DemonHybrid]

Guderian is all over the place this game.

---Its hardly omgus (yay buzzword whoever said this!). I would make this case on DH if he said that about anyone else.

Yeah, not going to take your word for it. In this specific case, it means one of two things:

1. It IS OMGUS, which means you're lying
2. You're soft defending EPM

Both are scummy and punishable by death by hanging. However, if EPM flips town, I would need to reread; I address this coming up.

--- With 2 scum teams, DH isn't particularly concerned with who is scum as long as he can implicate others in that persons fall. This reaffirms why I think youre scum. It may very well turn out that EPM is scum, but since it wont be from your faction, you dont mind who the next person you implicate and lynch is.

This is basically saying the exact same thing Parama did, only without the thought process behind it and with more of the sheeping. Bad. By the way, you haven't said a word about what Nacho and iamausername have said about your case on me.

--- And on the subject of EPM, youve set yourself up in such a way to try and lynch him and no matter what he flips implicate someone else (me in this case). You've stated that if he flips scum, I'm scum, and that if he flips town, well then i'm probably scum too.

Actually, Nacho has been dead on about EPM's actions and the scum motivation behind them. Nacho and I didn't just "make up" EPM's scumminess; either you can't read that well or you are trying to bullshit your way out of an EPM lynch, which I have no clue why you would (seriously, why are you still defending him? What are you hiding?)

If EPM were to flip scum, you would be my next vote. If he were to flip town, I would reread. This is a case of you putting words into my mouth and saying something that is completely fabricated,

you absolute hypocrite

.

--- DH, do you think pacman is scum just because of his opening three votes for people he had played with before?

Nacho made a good point, but I did not think he was scum until you

yes you

started soft defending him like crazy at the notion that if he is scum, then you are. Please try to find an ounce of serious suspicion

aimed towards evilpacman

before I said "my vote on EPM is getting stronger by the second" or something to that effect.

--- Plus, if we want to be silly, he voted you too. Does that make you scum if he flips scum?

I have no clue what you're getting at here. He didn't suspect you at all, so what's the connection you're trying to make up now?

--- ok ender, got any thoughts. Is DH scummy, or am i crazy? What is EPM. Do you like parama?

Desperate ally searching

oh my, someone's having kittens

[DemonHybrid]

Here's a TL;DR or a response to a "what the fuck did you just say" post.

1. EPM votes Parama, you, ends with me
2. Nacho's like "Woah what, that's scummy. And you're ending with DH, so that's weird brah"
3. I go "Nope. Vote epm. See, not buddies."
4. Nacho says "Cool, DH is town"
5. I go "It'd be cool to peg one or two scum at this point, Nacho's on the right track methinks. Anyway, EPM, pick a card, and by card I mean dude"
6. EPM goes "Oh Parama cause totally name shorter and not distancing at all no siree bob
7. DH: "If EPM is scum, so is Guderian."
8. Nacho agrees
9. Guderian "WHAT THE FUCK?!

HOLD THE PHONE

THAT'S RIDICULOUS

u srs, bro?! If so, u die! U die now! *votes*"

10. DH goes "Wow, Guderian, you freaked out. Due to your reaction, I can confirm that Nacho's read was correct and EPM is scummy with you included, however, if he flips town, I'll need to check again so untwist yo panties."

So, EPM set himself up as scummy, but you cemented it. Let's make sure the picture is straight on the wall before you criticize it, ok?

[DemonHybrid]

nhammen is horribly misguided town. But it's okay, reading is fundamental.

Rhetorical questions dismiss scumhunting and instead favors a bullying attitude over finding information, so that's why it's a scumtell. Notice that he didn't wait to find out whether I was serious or not; he just didn't care.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[DemonHybrid]

Calling people town in an effort to get them to like you is a common scum tactic to make it appear hard to lynch 'the nice guy'.

You are so horribly fabricating things now that are patently false its ridiculous.

Like Nacho is doing

Like Parama is doing

But those guys are okay to you, right?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, you dodged the rhetorical question bit, too, now that nhammen brought that up. Why did you think it was not rhetorical?

[DemonHybrid]

I asked you straight up, are you serious. No joke involved.

Why should I be going after nacho or parama? What about them would you like me to look at and evaluate?

First off, your vote was based on:

"Are you serious?"

then

"If so, then you need to be lynched"

meaning that if I WAS serious, then I needed to be lynched, otherwise, I...didn't need to be lynched, I guess?

I never said it was a joke, I said it was rhetorical, and you didn't wait for reasoning before putting a vote on me. You never wanted an answer, you never wanted information. That means it's rhetorical.

Second of all, I'm saying that I am counting off my town reads in the same fashion that Nacho, Parama and 60% of the mafiascum community do. So, why am I the target and not the other people in this game, especially when they have said the

same exact thing

that I have? (In the following order no less: Nacho, DemonHybrid, Parama).

[DemonHybrid]

Not one person has found a "hole" in my logic that I was not able to refute, so I have no clue what the hell you're talking about.

[DemonHybrid]

holes. you're digging them for yourself. then people vote for you.

Please find some examples of these holes.

[DemonHybrid]

Interesting comment. Because looking back, you used this nonserious vote to springboard into accusations against other players. And yet, by the time of this post at least, you have not made what you consider to be a serious vote. In fact, you are just piggybacking off of other players' accusations against EPM, while denying that your own accusations are serious. Wow!

Read ahead, especially the TL;DR that I presented Guderian.

I'm not understanding this section of this post. What do you mean by soft defending? Wouldn't he be soft-implying that he believes EPM is scum, whatever his alignment is?

Inadvertently.

This is what's going on:

I'm voting EPM, I think he's scummy. On the premise that EPM is scum, I believe Guderian to be scum. If EPM is town, I would need to reread.

Guderian freaks out about this and votes me for "suspecting him" when I did nothing of the case, but him doing that gives me reason to suspect EPM more. Why would he freak out to me saying "I think you are scum IF EPM is scum" if there was no connection?

You are assuming that your logic is absolutely correct. This is bothering me quite a bit. Also, you are saying that if EPM is scum, then Guderian is scum. If EPM is not scum, then Guderian looks scummy. How is this not lining up lynches?

I HAVE SAID THIS LIKE 5 TIMES. IF EPM IS SCUM, I BELIEVE GUDERIAN IS SCUM. IF EPM IS TOWN, I NEED TO REREAD GUDERIAN. 5 TIMES.

Ummm... I kinda assumed that his votes were for people he had played with before. So, what if he hadn't played with any of his scumbuddies before?

He probably wouldn't have made a post like that. Nacho summed it up quite nicely when he talked meta with EPM, look back.

Lots of assumptions here. But this part is just bad logic, not a scumtell.

Yeah, I would have said the same thing, had Guderian not went all "OMGWTFJIAOFJIOAGIOSGNIO" about my "If EPM is scum, Guderian is scum" logic. Guderian cemented it, not EPM.

If he is Town, he has to worry about the possibility that EPM is scum, and people believe your horrible logic.

No, he shouldn't be worried about that, because they have no connection. Even IF EPM turned out to be scum and Guderian is town, he would have to worry about proving his innocence at that point, not freak out about the future like he's doing now. I never said I fully suspected Guderian directly, only in regards to EPM. I never said I would vote Guderian today, and I probably won't. So what reasoning does he have to freak out like this?

Maybe you are just dumb Town. Hmmm... I still think you are scummy enough to hold my vote for now.

This sentence holds no purpose.

You may want to take a look at the two players you listed under "I dunno". Specifically think about why they are under I dunno. Also, why did you single out Tyler for this behavior?

Because they haven't been involved enough with the people I have reads on to have a clear read on them?

And did you not read why I suspected tyler, considering it's the SAME reason why you're suspecting him?

[DemonHybrid]

If you're wondering why him and not anyone else, at least everyone else has at least commented SOMETHING on someone involved in the game so far. Even UT and Ross. Tyler has not said a thing about anyone, instead preferring to comment on the setup.

[DemonHybrid]

@tylerjarvis, are you suspecting me only because I'm aggressive?

Reply to nhammen in a bit.

[DemonHybrid]

Demon, I'm suspecting you because you're making unnecessary and illogical judgments, and making connections that I honestly don't think someone would make if they weren't fishing.

Obviously I'm not completely sold on the idea yet, because i haven't voted for you. But come on, I know you can be much more rational than you've been in this game.

Your HoS clearly states that you're suspecting me for aggressive behavior. My logic is the SAME as Nacho's, so which is it?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh my god! You really can't read! You essentially just agreed with EPM here, and at the same time argued with him! You know what? I am deciding that DH is just dumb Town.
UNVOTE:

On another note, this game is starting to make me quite annoyed. I should probably stop posting now, before I say something I will regret.

First of all, this has no content and a weird unvote.

2nd of all, what about my post don't you get? EPM is fencesitting, saying "Don't say that nacho is obvtown, but don't consider him a scum suspect". I'm saying that everyone is either town or they are not town. If they are NOT obvtown, then they should be suspected, since that's how mafia works.

I believe you have fundamentally misunderstood the concept of a Town list. You do not put someone on a Town list because the haven't done anything scummy. You put them on a Town list because they have done something clearly protown. EPM is telling Parama that nacho has not done anything clearly protown (which I disagree with), so he should not be on a Town list. Obviously some players disagree,and would definitely not like nacho to be lynched.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. By not doing anything scummy, all of his actions have been considered by me, and by others, to be pro-town. It doesn't need to be explicitly stated. Weak argument.

You cannot just say something is scummy. You say that both 1 and 2 are scummy, but do not justify this. Why are these things scumtells? Use that brain and THINK rather than mindlessly using some acronym to attack someone.

Both 1 and 2 are scummy. 1 is scummy not because of the OMGUS itself, but because he denied that it was OMGUS....okay, that's fine and good, but he's also denying that he's overreacting about my logic on EPM+Guderian, which would have to mean that he's OMGUSing.

2 is scummy because....well, he's overreacting. He's basically admitting that he's overreacting about my EPM+Guderian logic. I don't see what's so hard to get about this.

You are correct, except for the fact that Guderian first mentioned this idea in post 47 and Parama mentioned it in post 54. Speaking of which, I really liked Parama's post 54. What did nacho and iamausername say about Guderian's case that you would like him to respond to. Because on isoing these players I see some rhetorical questions from nacho (oooh! what a scumtell!) and he had already answered iamausername's comment.

Wrong again. Parama's logic insinuates that Guderian and EPM are on one team, while I'm on the other. Guderian insinuates that I'm scum and that there are two teams, with an unknown on my team and 2 unknowns on the other.

Except for the fact that in post 46 you said that if EPM is not scum then Guderian has "contradicted something already, so I don't have high hopes for you". So, you HAVE said that if EPM is not scum, then Guderian looks scummy. Which looks like lining up lynches to me. But of course he is putting words into your mouth.

Yes, he is putting words into my mouth, and so are you. I said I would re-read. I can say that his play hasn't been too stellar at the moment, but it's nothing to vote him over, and it's certainly not going to mean that I'm going to auto-vote him if EPM flips town, assuming EPM is lynched Day 1.

Yurch!
What in the-
How could you possibly-
You do realize that ender has posted even LESS comments than your suspect tyler?
These are a good series of questions.
What-
How?
I-
You
Yurch!
Yurgimiscuchin
yaoshoahdfophaldhfl;abdf;lba!$#%@&$*&(^&);ldbl;ahdfahsfhlASDGHFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Yeah, well answer me this. Why ender and why no one else?

[DemonHybrid]

No, I mean, in regards to Guderian asking ender if he was crazy or not. Why did Guderian ask ender that and no one else?

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Nacho

- He wasn't originally aware of there being two scum factions.

Nothing that he talked about involved one scum faction total and you can't honestly prove that he had that in mind regardless. Can you contribute more?

[DemonHybrid]

I'm going to attempt to crop down the wall posts here, it's starting to grate on me and everyone else, surely.

But the quote I am replying to shows you saying SOMETHING DIFFERENT, and THAT is what I am referring to. You can keep saying that B is what you believe, but that doesn't change the fact that you said A. Although, scum will rarely act the way you have, so...

Nah, what I said as far as Guderian's current scumminess is "Guderian looks scummy now due to his overreaction, but I would still need to reread him if EPM flipped town, regardless of his current scumminess."

Except I really don't see how that meta shows what nacho suggests it shows.

He does have a slight point, though. He never started out with a ton of info, you have to realize that. EPM's careful reaction to it and Guderian's explosion to my follow-up kind of enforces it.

This is one thing I am wondering about. Why wont you vote Guderian today? I would think that logically, with the viewpoint you have, he would make a better vote than EPM.

I could vote Guderian, but I think that if that happens and he flips scum, this doesn't tell us a thing about EPM. I think that if EPM, who is scummy enough in my opinion, flips scum, this strengthens the case on Guderian. If he flips town, that means that I might have been off about something and am potentially avoiding lynching a townie.

So, obviously people should only be concerned with the here and now, even if you have stated what your plans for the future are. You are saying that the townie thing to do was to ignore what you said???

First, how is it bad that I was planning to lynch two scum in a row, ONLY IF the first person flipped scum? If EPM were to flip town, I would re-read to either prevent a townie death or to be absolutely sure that the case against Guderian holds enough water to still follow it. I'm not perfect, still far from an "amazing" mafia player.

It is the same reason. What I'm pointing out is that there are FOUR players that have exhibited the same behavior, and yet, you are only going after one of them. Why? Also, UT has commenented on people? Where do you see this? Also, what about ender? I can see that Ross has made a comment about not liking EPM or DH (with no reason), so that is at least a little bit, but I'm not considering it as valid until he gives reasons. Those four players are all highly scummy to me, because they have all posted useless junk.

Take a look at everyone's first "serious" post. UT says "I basically have no clue what is going on, but I'm comfortable with my DH vote" which is still a little bit. ender has commented on me, if only slightly. Tyler's first serious post contained nothing but setup speculation, and no names except for UT, who....you guessed it, joked around about setup speculation. It's not an arbitrary pick.

And what about my post don't you get? Because what I'm saying is that you completely misread his post. That is NOT what EPM was saying, and if you looked at his post in context, you would have realized this. What he was saying is that he wanted Parama to take nacho off of his (Parama's) Town list, because while he(nacho) hadn't done anything scummy, he(nacho) hasn't done anything townie either (in EPM's opinion). And your reply says that if he hasn't done anything Townie, then he shouldn't be on a town list, which is EXACTLY what EPM was saying. Please try understanding a conversation before replying to it.

Okay...

in my mind, and what most people should believe, is this:

If you are obvtown, then you should not be put on a scumlist.
If you are not obvtown, then you should not be exempt from being suspected, because it's mafia and anyone could be scum.

EPM is saying this:

Do not say Nacho is obvtown, but don't suspect him.

This is right in the middle, grey area.

For the record, I am not holding this against EPM, either. It's just something of note.

Question: is overreacting scummy? If so, why are you voting for EPM rather than Guderian? If not, why are you using it as an argument?

Yes, in this context.

See earlier as to why I'm voting EPM over Guderian.

As to why I'm using it as an argument, I'm looking to see if there really is a connection between the two. Why should Guderian overreact if EPM being scum would mean I suspect him? He shouldn't, at all, because EPM's alignment isn't revealed. Defending is okay, but not to this extent and not in the current context, not when it means his future potential survival when absolutely no information has been placed on the table. It is scummy at the moment, but all that could change; I'd rather EPM flip first before I make a 100% decision on Guderian.

So where is the sheeping you mentioned, if they are now two different ideas? Earlier, you said that Guderian is sheeping Parama, and when I point out that Guderian had the idea first, you now say that they were completely different ideas. So which is it?

Guderian states idea #1. (me on one team, ??? as the other scum)
Parama states idea #2 (me on one team, Guderian on the other)
Guderian parrots idea #2 (Parama's onto something, maybe DH is on one team and someone he suspects is on the other, namely EPM), you know, the part that you said I was correct about.

Your earlier quote heavily implied that you felt that it was something to vote him over. But I guess that whole thing was just a misunderstanding on everyones part?

See, that's what happens when you run on "implications" when not in RVS. Yes, misunderstandings.

I never thought, stated nor planned that I would vote Guderian today.

Lets crop down the wall posts. Too much to read, giving everyone a headache.

[DemonHybrid]

Point out where he assumed there was only one scum faction then.

[DemonHybrid]

Oops, EPM hasn't read a thing.

[DemonHybrid]

I'll work on a reply to nhammen in a few hours.

Also, Parama, we do NOT need to come to a lynch right now. That's absurd. I agree that we need more vote information, but it IS only page 6.

[DemonHybrid]

Do you have any reasoning for that, Empking?

[DemonHybrid]

Ugh...

I'm starting to understand the hatred of hydras.

Nacho/Mastin, can you guys keep posting under one account and not have schizophrenic reads? This game is becoming really tiring.

[DemonHybrid]

No, what I mean by schizophrenic reads, is that you and Nacho need to get together and discuss things before you provide output. Both heads disagreeing drives me crazy and I will count that as contradictions.

[DemonHybrid]

No, what I mean by schizophrenic reads, is that you and Nacho need to get together and discuss things before you provide output. Both heads disagreeing drives me crazy and I will count that as contradictions.

We agree on more than we disagree; that is good enough for me.

-Mastin.

Agree on everything. Everything else will be marked down as a contradiction.

[DemonHybrid]

You aren't considered two different players though. You are considered one. That's the risk you take with hydras.

Agree with everything before you produce output in a QT or on AIM or something or I'm replacing out.

[DemonHybrid]

Wow holy shit

Nacho IS Calcifer.

[DemonHybrid]

I seriously didn't think I had to say that after EPM said that Nacho and Cal were different and I told him that he wasn't reading.

You guys are following each other's reads, I'm sure of it now.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, that was impressive how fast you got here to try and spin that in a scummy manner DH.

Derp.

[DemonHybrid]

Speaking of which,

@Mod: Can you update the first post with replacements?

[DemonHybrid]

Derp =???

Seriously, that "you're trying to spin that in a scummy manner" doesn't mean anything, seeing as how you and EPM, to my knowledge, were the only ones to make that mistake.

Even bvoigt, the guy who JUST REPLACED IN saw that Calcifer replaced Nacho as a Nacho/Mastin hydra. They read, and you two don't.

However, I'd still like to see EPM's lynch before yours.

[DemonHybrid]

K

I've said all I need to anyway.

[DemonHybrid]

And seriously? Fucking replace out if you're going to bitch and whine about everything. People have different opinions, get used to it.

It's really too much to ask that a hydra gets their shit straight before putting it in writing, huh?

[DemonHybrid]

And seriously? Fucking replace out if you're going to bitch and whine about everything. People have different opinions, get used to it.

It's really too much to ask that a hydra gets their shit straight before putting it in writing, huh?

Unnecessary hydra badgering detected.

You obviously missed my point, but its okay.

[DemonHybrid]

Dude, get over yourself. It's ONE player slot and it needs to be treated that way. I don't really feel like participating in something where it's unanimously agreed that one player slot going

"I believe this"

"Well I believe the opposite of that"

is okay.

Lets say I sit here and I go:

"EPM is scum, lets lynch him"

and then the next post I go

"Nah, I don't believe EPM is scum, actually. He's fine."

You'd lynch the fuck out of me, right? Why does Cal get a free pass?

[DemonHybrid]

Basically, in the long run:

I don't mind hydras. I've played with them before and I'm playing with them currently. However, I have an intolerance of purposeful confusion just because both heads think that "agreeing on...well, almost everything" is okay when it is clearly not. I like both heads, but I feel like my request isn't a hard one to satisfy.

[DemonHybrid]

Note that I mean no disrespect to either head (Nacho or Mastin) or anyone hounding me on this point, but the point still stands.

[DemonHybrid]

I understand Demon's take on the Hydra situation, now, and I'll try to keep to the request.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Trying is fine.

[DemonHybrid]

@DH on hydra nonsense: NOBODY CARES. Take it to MD postgame and stop clogging the thread.

You say that after that matter was cleared up. Yeah, you don't gain any cool points.

[DemonHybrid]

A peanut sat on the railroad track
When the 5:15 came by,
Choo Choo! Peanut butter.

VOTE: DemonHybrid

How come?

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not switching. He has enough pressure.

[DemonHybrid]

I agree with Parama. werewolf's reaction to the wagon fails. However, I'd prefer to react to a claim and hammer if it's okay with everyone.

For the record, I just did a count and werewolf is L-2.

[DemonHybrid]

...I never suggested an early claim. I said I would possibly hammer depending on werewolf's claim and that's the only way he's getting my vote.

Fucking read.

[DemonHybrid]

I never said I intended to hammer regardless. Especially after I clarified that I meant it as a possible hammer.

You're not on the bright side, DJ. So let me sum everything up for you.

I will not vote werewolf until two conditions have been met:

1. He is L-1
2. He claims and I have decided that his claim is not genuine for whatever reason and that he is definite scum

I really don't see how any of that is hard to understand.

[DemonHybrid]

Cal is right. A VT claim isn't something to make a huge deal out of. I don't like the attempt to cause suspicion as you claim, too.

Unvote, Vote: werewolf

. Lets take the leap and see what happens. Regardless, I guarantee scum is on the wagon somewhere in the middle, but analyzing it will come in time.

[DemonHybrid]

Also,

Mod: Can you please please please please update the main post with replacements =(

[DemonHybrid]

Right.

Don, I wouldn't have hammered if I didn't think his claim was bullshit.

You again missed a key word here. Regardless. Regardless of a town or scum flip, there will be scum on his wagon and most likely in the middle. It was an optimal bussing situation.

On the crayon brightness scale, you rate about a brown.

[DemonHybrid]

That's definitely a modkillable offense.

[DemonHybrid]

Werewolf, if that's true, not only are you modkillable, but bannable too.

[DemonHybrid]

Dont worry about it, take care of what you need to. Thanks for modding up to now =)

[DemonHybrid]

I want to know Guderian's role asap before I come to any definite conclusions.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: DH

i call bullshit here as well. what kind of "definite" conclusions are you going to have on day 2 of a large game anyways? you have his alignment. role should be an afterthought.

Role means everything, especially since a large chunk of yesterday's information dealt with Guderian.

But, no matter. Let's not wait for information; instead, let's lynch on pure intuition.

This game has already made me exhausted.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: EPM

. I'm still waiting on Guderian's full flip, but since you guys want action, here you go.

I still stand by the theory that a Guderian flip doesn't tell us much about EPM, but perhaps I was wrong about my reverse psychology.

[DemonHybrid]

This game just gives me a headache.

I had all of this logic planned out based on Guderian's flip and we don't even know what his role is.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes, power role information would be important. Hell, we don't even know if he's TOWN; he's just not mafia. He could be a SK for all we know.

[DemonHybrid]

If the lynch is between me and EPM, you know I'm going for EPM. I've always found him scummy. And although I'm annoyed that I could get lynched, I wouldn't be too heartbroken because I know the information could help a lot of people out.

I'll claim now. I'm just a VT.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, it depended on the role. Regardless of the flip, and like I said at the beginning of this game, EPM's alignment isn't told off of Guderian's flip. I was wrong about the vice versa. If EPM was lynched or killed and had flipped town, I would have laid off of Guderian.

I am looking more at Parama. Not only because of the beginning of the game gambit, to which I might have been wrong about my reverse psychology, but also as DGB listing him off as a scum suspect. DGB seems to be like the type of person to post that she suspects a buddy in a two mafia team game (which is an advanced topic, because if the suspicion goes through and lynches him or her, you're rather fucked), but not vote him. If you are scum and you do not have Parama on your team, I would suggest shooting him. And I think an EPM flip would tell us a little bit more about Parama. I still can't get over EPM's RVS vote; Nacho made a lot of sense, and it's common practice to completely forget about the first fraction of the game.

It just annoys me because it's like there's a Janitor in this game, and I HATE janitors. Parama and EPM can attest to that shit. I have a migraine just knowing this game exists, but I would never replace out. That's what I have for you.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: which is an advanced tactic.

[DemonHybrid]

I keep coming back to DGB's experiment, which seems like a way to undermine suspicion on DH. Though i guess it could go the other way, and act as a get-out clause if suspicion doesnt swing that way. One thing is for sure, DGB did not expect to get lynched that early, and was probably not too concerned about leaving clues.

I like most of what DH said on this page, but this is just awful:

because I know the information could help a lot of people out.

I'll claim now. I'm just a VT.

VT isnt the most informative claim in the world. The wording is cleverly constructed to discourage a lynch. In laymens terms, DH suggests the lynch should be about information, and that his lynch will not be informative, while seeming not too worried about dying. Would be useful to have a list of who has voted for DH/EPM at any time in the game.

BM

News flash: I'm L-2.

[DemonHybrid]

Lol, because I've been attacking DH basically all game, so when he flips scum (and trust me, he will)

You know, you've really been on a streak of wrong lately.

[DemonHybrid]

WELP.

vote: DH

There's like a significant portion of the game that I've been ignoring and I need to read a few people, but DH is still scum.
Also it's pretty obvious now that we don't have a SK. Really would've preferred that over 2 teams x_x
Calcifer's pretty much clear of Eastern mafia in my eyes, and probably town regardless.
UT is probably scum as well, but not on the same team as DH. Dunno which is on which team, though. It could go either way.

VCA incoming, see you in a few.

Would you clear me of Eastern mafia?

[DemonHybrid]

In light of VCA, yes.
Still want you dead, though.

Cool. For a second, I was going to vote you.

If I am today's lynch, leave Parama alone, please.

Vote: nhammen

. Probable Western Mafia. Battle Mage mentioned him in the first post when replacing in which may be a large tell.

[DemonHybrid]

I...still think he's town regardless?

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, is it better for the other Mason to come out now? Or wait until the next day?

Legitimate inquiry. A confirmed townie would do us a world of good, but not with two/three easy lynches on the line, including myself.

[DemonHybrid]

The only reason for any mason to claim soon is if there is a realistic possibility they will be killed, and then scum come forward claiming to be a third member of what is actually a 2 member mason group. In other words, if the mason is a likely night kill, and that mason is the only member of the group left.

Understood.

Also, my reasoning for asking Parama that is because I think Parama plays more careless as scum and would have said something outlandish like "Yeah, you bussed EPM from the start", even though I've been in a bad position all game. Hypothetically speaking, if I was Eastern and was bussing my partner after DGB was killed, that would have been really dumb.

He passed the test.

[DemonHybrid]

By the way, is it better for the other Mason to come out now? Or wait until the next day?

Legitimate inquiry. A confirmed townie would do us a world of good, but not with two/three easy lynches on the line, including myself.

unvote, vote DH

are you always this stupid? scum is dropping like flies and you want a mason claim?

Oh, an insult. Time to ignore you.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, don:

Legitimate inquiry.

I guess I need to make it 5 times the size so that you can actually see it, you blind idiot.

[DemonHybrid]

Or one that says "prove me wrong if I am".

[DemonHybrid]

I'm a Cop. Calcifer and Parama are scum.

Both Western, then?

You are an autolynch if they don't flip mafia, or if they flip godfather.

Unvote, Vote: Parama

[DemonHybrid]

Nacho and Parama bussed EPM to the death. So, in lieu of VCA, let's look for eastern connections with other folk.

[DemonHybrid]

EPM is eastern. Nacho and Parama cannot both be eastern, unless its 4-4-8 (O_o).

Technically, one could be eastern, one could be Western.

But the VCA says otherwise.

[DemonHybrid]

He can see right through your shenanigans is why.
I don't believe your cop claim because
1. I'm not scum
2. Calc isn't scum
3. DH is scum

k

[DemonHybrid]

Translation: "Shit, Western Mafia is fucked now, fuck"

[DemonHybrid]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Parama. So much time wasted writing that.

Empking fake claim as Cop and me associating myself with him, assuming that we're buddies (which would mean we're Western Mafia) would auto-out us, therefore automatically killing Western Mafia. So the motivation behind that is....?

Yeah, non-existent! Correct.

But it's okay. You're flailing scum. Shhh....shhh...I know...death is scary. It'll all be over soon.

[DemonHybrid]

Cop Claim LOL

[DemonHybrid]

I just did.

[DemonHybrid]

I know, dude. You were playing a good game. But you're caught and you guys are screwed.

Assuming that Empking and I were Western buddies, he'd have to be fucking stupid to claim a guilty on both of you guys, and I'd have to be fucking stupid to auto agree with him.

Assuming 1 more Eastern left, that wouldn't even make sense. Even if you were Eastern scum, the Cal flip would out us and town would win.

So, you're going to die. So is Cal. That's just the way things go.

[DemonHybrid]

L-2.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm Eastern.
nhammen is Nacho's buddy IMO.
GL town, hope you win it.

You really did quite well =\

Had you not been copped, I never would have suspected you after your answer the start of D3 and your VCA.

[DemonHybrid]

Parama, I agree on the nhammen buddy.

[DemonHybrid]

No Calcifer.
You die next.

Yes.



nhammen, Eastern mafia is probably done for. We'll lynch him and then you, don't worry...though I'm kinda puzzled as to why you want to lose so badly...

[DemonHybrid]

I hammer 2 Eastern scum. GDI why cant i hammer western scum??? >_<

You can. Just hammer Cal tomorrow.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Calcifer

[DemonHybrid]

Cal, you get an A for effort, by the way.

[DemonHybrid]

...A+ for effort. Wow.

[DemonHybrid]

Nhammen, I didn't even read it, so no worries.

[DemonHybrid]

Cal's L-1 for the record. Lets just get this over with.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm willing to bet nhammen and Shark are inno too, since he's building a case on both of them.

[DemonHybrid]

*bvoigt, sorry

[DemonHybrid]

I'm willing to bet nhammen and Shark are inno too, since he's building a case on both of them.

What's that in front of me? A glass of wine? Don't mind if I do!

Oh....username...say it ain't so.

[DemonHybrid]

scum: you really need to kill empking.

Don, you are quite possibly the most idiotic player I have ever met.

[DemonHybrid]

In fact your whole post is full of fail, not just that one.

[DemonHybrid]

...

Why ARE you still alive?

[DemonHybrid]

I think we need a massclaim. Now.

[DemonHybrid]

This is just really fucking weird; either you got really lucky with Parama as scum, or you're the real cop. But it's weird because if you ARE the real cop, scum is throwing away their chances at winning.

[DemonHybrid]

i'm actually the other mason. i was actually giving scum some sound advice.

emp: why no investigation results?

He said shark is inno.

If you are the other mason, we have three confirmed innocents, given Emp isn't lying. Give me a second...

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, yeah. That does make a lot of sense.

If we say that Emp and don are confirmed innocents, the people on the chopping block are me, bvoigt, username and Sharkfinn. Two lynches left; do we want a mass claim at this point? Masons, Doc and Cop are probably it as far as town PRs go in a 3v3v10 game.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm willing to bet nhammen and Shark are inno too, since he's building a case on both of them.

What's that in front of me? A glass of wine? Don't mind if I do!

Oh....username...say it ain't so.

Vote: iamausername

Sure.

[DemonHybrid]

Vanilla Townie, as claimed before.

[DemonHybrid]

3 Eastern and 2 western are dead....so, how do you figure 2 left?

[DemonHybrid]

After this, by the way, I'm okay with a bvoigt or iamausername lynch. I don't think scum would make that mistake.

[DemonHybrid]

For this very situation. I'm very into balance and PR speculation and it has saved my ass plenty of times.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: bvoigt

to make my intentions clear and just in case I'm miscounting the votecount. Mainly because of this:

Lynch me first if you must, but bvoigt is your last scum. My final request is a bvoigt lynch tomorrow.

[DemonHybrid]

No reason to no lynch. You are confirmed town, and you'd just die.

I'm looking at Shark.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry for breaking the silence, but just pointing out something before your ISO. Go ahead.

[DemonHybrid]

Correct, we're looking for the Western accomplice to Cal/Battle Mage.

[DemonHybrid]

How many other townies and scum in this game gave different numbers of scum and SK possibilities at the beginning of the game, iam?

[DemonHybrid]

Shark, that was the most idiotic thing I've ever read.

Iam and DH are scum with Nacho/Calcifer. LE GASP!!!! XD

Even IF the town to scum ration was 9:4:3...

Nailed to the Perch:
8. don_johnson (Rep. 4computer D1)
12. iamausername
15. Sharkfinn (Rep. UntrodTripod D2)
16. DemonHybrid

There are FOUR players left.

2 scum vs 2 town would be a TOWN LOSS.

Vote: SharkFinn

. Sorry to go against your plan, don, but that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read in MyLo+Confirmed town.

[DemonHybrid]

Unless you were being sarcastic, Shark, then put sarcasm tags onto your damn post.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, EPM is Eastern Mafia. You have no clue what you are talking about.

[DemonHybrid]

looks like dh is claiming scum. interesting.

carry on.

Please, just because I wouldn't wait for you to vote?

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

Then sarcasm tag it.

[DemonHybrid]

You probably should have tried to lynch me instead of Shark today.

How so?

Maybe we're not on the same page; I look to bad math and missing the obvious as scum tells, and you seem to see them as town tells. You saw firsthand.

[DemonHybrid]

What did I see firsthand? I'm pretty sure I remember you saying the exact opposite yesterday? You made this post, right? I didn't imagine that?

LyLo changed that, but I understand the confusion. I made that post Day 5. There's a lot more pressure today, and mistakes go from being excusable to something you shouldn't be doing in a situation like this, so yeah, it did flip upside down for me.

Think of it more like a "Is he STILL really making that mistake? There's 4 of us and none of that would even be plausible anymore..." thought process.

[DemonHybrid]

Because it was the start of the game and I didn't have any strong reads on anyone, and that seemed like a good way to go about getting them. Like for instance, it helped me determine pretty quickly that Guderian was obviously town.

It did? I clearly remember, and am reading in your ISO, that you were exactly on the same page with Nacho on the Guderian hate, and not once in the game did you say he was obvtown.

[DemonHybrid]

Try actually reading my posts? #53 and #116 state pretty unequivocally that Guderian was town. Dumb town, but town nonetheless.

I apologize then, I must have remembered something else and I skipped it slightly in the ISO.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm wondering why you asked Iam about his posts and not me =|

[DemonHybrid]

Guess I'm cast in the wind here.

I'll let you guys decide, I suppose. To be honest, I can't decide against you two, and I obviously don't really have a say.

[DemonHybrid]

No, I really don't; in a situation like this, it's really up to the confirmed town to help steer things along and do some analysis. In this current situation, both Iam and I are known to have supported Calcifer/Nacho's position. Both of us have had a lack of interaction with Parama. Both of us pushed EPM. And then the question of botched results in relation to a potential godfather comes up in regards to you, Shark.

That's where we're at right now, and what can Iam, you or I do about it? The actions are set in stone, and I think that at this point, no matter what, trying to convince others that the play is justified (not counting inquiries from don) really doesn't do anything, or it might even make things look worse.

You ask me questions, you'll get answers. Until then, I really have nothing to say. Iam and my play have been nearly identical in regards to the flipped scum already.

[DemonHybrid]

I did some thinking. I'm going to go out on a limb and vote Shark for this reason alone:

don seems pretty certain at this point that I am scum. I think that if Iam was scum, he would have given whatever reasoning and try to coax don into voting for me, since it would be a pretty easy push. Iam is a pretty smart player, and him not doing that is a huge town tell to me. I just think it's easier for scum to make the first move in a stalled move like this and in a somewhat good position like Shark is and I think scum Iam would have pulled the trigger by now.

Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Vote: SharkFinn

[DemonHybrid]

Also, food for thought:

I'm becoming increasingly certain of a godfather at this point. Eastern flipped two goons and a bulletproof.

Western flipped two goons, but no PR yet, so I'm willing to fully accept a godfather at this point.

It's been a day and a half since Shark voted me, and two posts from iam later, there's no vote on me or coaxing of don. Hell, there has even been some suspicion thrown Shark's way. I'm liking a Shark godfather, and I'm liking Iam town.

Can't really say much else at this point.

[DemonHybrid]

Earlier in the game, iam.

[DemonHybrid]

Actually, yeah, I was being dumb and I have no clue why I made that comparison. Ignore that point, then.

This game has been really grating on my mafia morale. -_-

[DemonHybrid]

Basically, I was just trying to make a point that our play has been nearly identical in the early game, and it wasn't a statement on team speculation. I know it seems like a retarded point to make, and it is, but we did play pretty identically with the exception of having one or two split reads in the early game.

Anyway, carry on.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Nacho

- He wasn't originally aware of there being two scum factions.

Nothing that he talked about involved one scum faction total and you can't honestly prove that he had that in mind regardless. Can you contribute more?

DH, why did you feel the need to jump to Nacho's defence here? If you read Nacho's posts again now, with the benefit of hindsight, do you still think there's nothing in them that indicates that he wasn't aware of there being two scum teams?

I thought the reasoning was a bit shoddy for the vote. Notice that I asked Empking to contribute more; I wanted more information from him instead. Nacho even mentioned 2 scumteams in a later post before Empking asked that question, and nothing before that mentioning of two scumteams was indicative that he believed that there was only one scumteam: Just a lot of grouping players into a town or scum category.

[DemonHybrid]

I didn't really setup a lynch on Guderian; it was RVS and I was piecing together information. It happens.

How many people in the early game defended nacho or praised him for being town at the time? He was niversally considered town, so singling me out on that point alone isn't fair, no matter if you call it a "chainsaw" or just plain defending.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, on my droid, didn't finish my statement about guderian.

Sure, I connected EPM with Guderian, but you have to realize the context of that suspicion. How far through the game were we at that time?

[DemonHybrid]

My point is still there. You set up a lynch. You admit you set up a lynch. Yes it isnt 100% set, but you laid it down, giving yourself an out if you were wrong.

I set up suspicion. It was too early for a lynch setup.

Even so, lets assume that I am Western. What I believed at the time was that if EPM was scum, Guderian most likely is and I would be in support of his lynch from RVS reasoning, which was pretty shoddy. I admit that; it was RVS and I was looking for information.

But are you saying that I was setting up lynches 100% based on EPM's flip? If I was Western scum, I wouldn't have known EPM's alignment, so I wasn't setting up a lynch; I was legitimately suspicious, but didn't want to go into definites. You can call it creating an out, but Shark, a lot of people were playing that game in the first few pages.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes, I agree that I set up suspicion, but it stemmed from legit suspicion on Guderian. A lot of people set up suspicion early game, it's a fallacy to call me out alone on that just because I'm left till MyLo and call it a special case.

[DemonHybrid]

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF I

VOTE: SharkFinn

Nothing until don votes. He's the other mason, remember?

[DemonHybrid]

o. And who else was doing it? I must have missed it.

Everyone who posted a scum list in the early game. Granted, I linked EPM and Guderian, but it stemmed from RVS. That's how RVS works sometimes.

My main point is that, assuming I am Western for a second, I couldn't have been truly setting up Guderian's mislynch if I didn't even know EPM's alignment (since he was Eastern). In fact, I knew no one's alignment. Sometimes, RVS plays out that way.

I don't really know what else to say about that.

[DemonHybrid]

*whew*

I was afraid I was going to lose the game for you guys ._.

You know how you say one stupid thing and then everything you say after that is just a train of stupid? Yeah..

I just hope it's not iam.

[DemonHybrid]

Its not me. See Mundania in Little Italy for proof.

[DemonHybrid]

Shark?

[DemonHybrid]

=(

[DemonHybrid]

Knew there was a godfather...damn.