Newbie 1040 ~ Murder in Newbville! ~ Game Over

[Uite]

I see that not much has happened in my absence.

@Flameaxe:

Why MrDNA32 over your other suspects?

@Charlie:

I'll join the chorus of voices saying that you really should get around to contibuting. You've been inactive now for five days!

[Flameaxe]

When DNA posts, and he doesn't post often, he really doesn't have much to say and almost never provides any useful content. Despite this, he has still been near just about every popular wagon from the start of the day, which sets off very loud warning sirens in my head.

[ReaperCharlie]

Still gathering my thoughts for the most part but...

@Reaper: General summary of your vote on my slot? I'd like to address anything if I can. The quicker we read each other, the quicker the game goes.

Cough.

I can read your poker face, Mister. And it says: scum.



Love, Reaper.

[Flameaxe]

I wish that was at all constructive.

No love, BBM

[ReaperCharlie]

Here is a slightly more (or less, depending on your point of view) constructive explanation.

I am not going to (at this time) quantify the tell-tale signs of scumminess in your/Lind's posts, as that would not only tip my hand early, allowing you the chance to fold without any sense of loss (and consequently any compelling secret reason to vote you would automatically become nullified as that tell disappeared because you knew to MAKE it disappear); rather, I feel it is necessary to let things play out as they will until such time as it is beneficial to one and all to spill the secrets over your head like blood and watch it wash away your guise of supposed innocence.

And then, when all has been said and done, we will all fashion a hemp noose and end you.

[Flameaxe]

Excuse me while I ignore you now, as you don't seem to have any intention of actually being useful. Fucking secret tell bullshit is completely useless to everyone but yourself. If you are town, you're an imbecile; if you're scum, you're still an imbecile.

I said it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Did I mention I love you?

Also, read the Unicorn thread.

[Equinox]

And by "this evening," what I really mean is "tomorrow evening," which is today's evening. Hooray?

MOD: Requesting prods on Charlie and MrDNA32.

[Charlie]

Requesting that you do not prod Charlie.

Today is the day.

[Kitoari]

Really sorry about the lack of attentiveness over the past couple days - the lack of a decent connection is killing me.

Prodding DNA32.

[Equinox]

I'm supposed to be pushing activity in this game as an IC, and yet I've failed on that count quite a few times. I'm sorry about that, and I really don't have any uber awesome excuses except the holiday and various on-site distractions. All I can say is I'll try harder from now on and that I seriously need to learn time management.

@Eq -Cheers for the pro tip Do you keep your notes in your Mafiascum account then ?

At the moment, no. I keep my voting spreadsheets on Google Docs, and the notes I've jotted down for my games are currently on my laptop.

@Equinox:

I just remembered that you never got around to analysing the questions you asked at the beginning of the game. Any change you might do that sometime? It could be useful you know.

I did do the analysis, but I opted to keep the reads I got from that secret in order to get reactions from a couple of other players. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any detailed notes about the RQS, so all I have left are a list of reads and some notes about the game.

I'll do a rundown later this week when I'm not so bogged down.

---

I did some catching up. All I have to say at this point is that I'm confused, have too many questions in my notes, and have quite a bit of rereading to do. I need to reserve that for tomorrow morning (sorry) because I am in no mental state to look all of this up right this minute (i.e., Charlie, Lindisfarne, ReaperCharlie, and then this mikemike778-LordChronos business you lot are on about).

What I

did

do was some reading elsewhere. Due to a gag rule, I can't say what, but what I will say is that I strongly believe MrDNA32 is scum in this game. My case from post 120 still applies, and I endorse Flameaxe's post 251.

[Charlie]

Okay, here I go with a full game analysis. I admit that I should have done this earlier, as in as soon as I got into the game but the thing is I've been doing it all everytime (as Town, I do skip it as Mafia; you just have to take my word for it or scrape out every game I've played here) that I've gotten bored with it. So I guess this is like an IOU thing? Hmm...

I'll be going through the posts and putting answers and comments about things in chronological order (my usual style of things, nothing new on my side)

Page 1

Random questions, for everyone:
- What is your favorite role to play in mafia and why?
- Is meta-gaming based on a player's past actions a solid tactic to you? Why or why not?
- Which role would you prefer: SK or Mason; and why?

1. So far I've played as VT, Mafia Goon, Cop, Commuter in normal and themed games. Out of these I'd probably say VT is nicest, but playing as Mafia with people I'm familiar with was pretty fun too. Perhaps it'll be more fun to play as Mason due to the fact that its Town + Town co-operating to scumhunt.

2. Meta is good stuff but takes too much effort to do, IMHO. I assume meta, by traditional means, means taking examples of a player's posts from previous games and comparing it with the current. I don't do that, but I do use meta in a not-so-traditional way that seems to be more accurate than most: watch how a more experienced player who you know was Town aligned in one game, playing "sub-par" in the current game i.e. fewer strong posts, more lurking, dismissive toward questioning. At the end of the day this makes up a "gut feeling" which I do find reliable.

3. Never played those before, but maybe mason? Coz of see above, 1.

1. What is your time zone? How often do you expect to post?
2. Have you played Mafia before? If yes, how much and what kind of experience do you have?
3. In a hypothetical situation, you get to pick who dies from two candidates. Candidate A hasn't contributed much all day and has been rather quiet. Candidate B was caught in a lie. Who do you lynch: the lurker or the liar? Why?
4. In a hypothetical situation, you have determined through all sorts of analyses that a player is town. However, your gut tells you this player is scum. (Feel free to consider the reverse situation as well.) What do you conclude? Why?

1. +8GMT, I post everyday if there is stuff to reply to. Otherwise, I'll post whenever (I know I've not been posting much of late, I'm lazy, so there)
2. I've played Mafia before, yes, and one game with you too.
3. Lynch the liar, but there are exceptions: If the liar is confirmed town but you know that he's fakeclaiming a role, you'll feel a lot of rage but it may be in your best interest (as Town) to not lynch 'em. Lurkers... well lynch them too, it usually helps.
4. I'll go for gut in most cases, and even moreso in LyLo situations. Why? Coz someone once said gut is the way to go in LyLo and I have never had a reason to fault that.

@silverbullet999 post #19: Ah hahahaha, yes, andrew and his fakeclaims... I'm familiar with them and they ARE annoying.

Page 2

Seems that mikemike778 doesn't realize that RVS and RQS can go hand in hand.
Amongst all the discussion about the hypothetical L-1 player-claimed-cop, I think Equinox has the right idea about it.
LordChronos's hypothetical 3p Lylo with a dead doc + goon flip is a very tense situation which I'm unsure of how to answer. I've never been in such a situation before... but I guess it depends on lots of factors?

Page 3

@Equinox post #52: Yep, good advice there on the breadcrumb suggestion. I have fixed on one type of obscure cultural reference for crumbs.
I'm slightly suspicious of mikemike778 based on his vote and words at this point.
I clicked on the Sad Kitten twice at the bottom of the page.

Page 4

I would sheep Equinox's vote on mikemike778 at #78 at this time.
Lindisfarne (replaced by Flameaxe) is town.
The rest of the page is just plain funny (that's a good thing actually)

Page 5

LordChronos seems to be acting rather normal based on what I know of his playsytle. Gut town read.
AzBlueM's posting style is going to be quite entertaining.
Good stuff by Equinox.
ReaperCharlie replaces in with a statement declaring his non-commitment to this game, along with a VT claim. Very anti-town, not necessarily scummy.
Case on MrDNA32 by Equinox, willing to buy it to some degree. (still think that mikemike778 is a better choice to hit mafia though)
Ah, this post is scummy:

Why in the HELL did you claim your role in your first post? I can see no reason as to why you would do that.

FOS: Reaper

Beat me to it. I don't see how any good can come from this. If he's either town then either:

a) he's being truthful in which case he's made it easier for the scum to target a power rule. About the only reason to do this if truthful is to prevent himself from being NKd which is either utterly selfish (trying to keep himself in the game not being NK) or extremely arrogont (ie regards himself more valuable than a PR).

b) He's lying and a PR - not sure if I favour the 'lynch all liars' approach but either way don't see how this would help town. Its going to be make any later claim pretty unbelievable.

Having said that ... I'm struggling to see the motivation for making this claim as scum either.

UNVOTE:
Need to think about stuff - Reaper, LC and MrD in particular.

He said "if he's either town than either". That's unnatural!

VOTE: mikemike778

Page 6

I replace in here, so let me pause a bit to summarize:
I find Equinox as a very responsible IC, but the key here is she is acting very much like a Town IC. She offers the general good advice and more, and goes the extra mile to cover the important stuff with examples and things. Over the past games I've seen Town ICs and Mafia ICs, in this case I strongly believe that Equinox is a Town IC.
I also believe that Flameaxe replacing Lindisfarne is pro-town after the discussion.
I think that LordChronos and Uite replacing silverbullet999 are town, albeit on the mild scale.
So this would be my Town-to-Mafia reads list:

Equinox
Flameaxe
LordChronos
Uite
AzBlueM
MrDNA32
ReaperCharlie
mikemike778

AzBlueM is rather null (but entertaining).
ReaperCharlie is established anti-town and mikemike778 is a Mafia read.
MrDNA32 is what's left over.

-----------
ReaperCharlie indeed ignored all the stuff that happened in-game (I did too, but that's not the point)
There appears to be slight distancing between mikemike778 and ReaperCharlie...but not much to go on. Still, if one of them is lynched today and flips Mafia, I'd recommend lynching the other.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that everyone at this point is thinking that "Equinox is Town" right now, so here's an obligatory statement from myself: "doc if you exist pls protect her N1, but you can also hope to keep the Mafia guessing that that's what you'll do so you'll do protect someone else".
Oh, ReaperCharlie is actually committed to the game after all. That catch-up post at the bottom of the page looks good and all, but I find it slightly disconcerting that our reads vary a lot. How are we going to reach a consensus like this?

Page 7

Ah, I find this #167 to be a Town post as well. Flameaxe's slot is very Town atm.
Yay for Uite, I heard he's pretty nice and all that.

Page 8

Ugh, I dunno, I think that #180is very much like a threat without looking like a threat?
Uite's introductory post at #181 is neat, and usually what I'm accustomed to doing. I like that. Reads noted.
Not much to say about ReaperCharlie at this point except the non-commitment expresses itself in the form of jokes and sarcasm. I'm not really interested in it.
@Reapercharlie #193: I was wrong, with a catch-up post you're clearly paying attention and following the game, but that does not mean you're committed to it.
#198 Uhhh?

-Unable to make long forum post, continued next post-

[Charlie]

Page 9

Yes, I did release my list in this very post, AzBlueM.
mikemike778, its just a delay in getting things done.
MrDNA32, I'd like to know who are your top picks for Mafia.

MrDNA32, you're all over the place. List your top 2 suspects, please, with reasons why you think they are scum.

See, this hivemind phenomenon between myself and Equinox further solidifies my Town read on her (It may seem that this sentence and the one preceeding it are connected, but trust me it isn't: as with all lines of this post, I read the game chronologically)
Thinking Flameaxe and Uite gave good introductory posts.

Page 10

There's nothing game-related here to comment on!
Oh yeah, and it was my scumday on 28th Dec. That's when I joined the site. Birthdays are separate, and are separately labeled with a different cake. Check out Hoopla if you have the time.

Page 11

Okay, Flameaxe expresses suspicion on MrDNA32 which I'm beginning to think so too...

-----------
All done! List is as above, with slight variations between the positions of MrDNA32, ReaperCharlie, mikemike778; all of whom I'd be comfortable lynching today. Vote's already on mikemike778.

[ReaperCharlie]

Meh. I'm underwhelmed by Charlie's catch-up post(s)... but I'd have to re-read to find anything worth killing someone for.

Well, besides the fact that Flameaxe is scum because Lind was scum, and therefore needs to be lynched pronto style.

[Uite]

I am not going to (at this time) quantify the tell-tale signs of scumminess in your/Lind's posts, as that would not only tip my hand early, allowing you the chance to fold without any sense of loss (and consequently any compelling secret reason to vote you would automatically become nullified as that tell disappeared because you knew to MAKE it disappear); rather, I feel it is necessary to let things play out as they will until such time as it is beneficial to one and all to spill the secrets over your head like blood and watch it wash away your guise of supposed innocence.

Are you saying that Flameaxe and Lindisfarne are displaying the same tells? Because if not, you can easily show us what you found suspicious about Lindisfarne.

I did do the analysis, but I opted to keep the reads I got from that secret in order to get reactions from a couple of other players. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any detailed notes about the RQS, so all I have left are a list of reads and some notes about the game.

Could you still share them?

[ReaperCharlie]

I am not going to (at this time) quantify the tell-tale signs of scumminess in your/Lind's posts, as that would not only tip my hand early, allowing you the chance to fold without any sense of loss (and consequently any compelling secret reason to vote you would automatically become nullified as that tell disappeared because you knew to MAKE it disappear); rather, I feel it is necessary to let things play out as they will until such time as it is beneficial to one and all to spill the secrets over your head like blood and watch it wash away your guise of supposed innocence.

Are you saying that Flameaxe and Lindisfarne are displaying the same tells? Because if not, you can easily show us what you found suspicious about Lindisfarne.

Wellll. I'm gonna hang onto that for now.

But keep me accountable; I'll fess up later.

[Equinox]

I did do the analysis, but I opted to keep the reads I got from that secret in order to get reactions from a couple of other players. Unfortunately, I didn't keep any detailed notes about the RQS, so all I have left are a list of reads and some notes about the game.

Could you still share them?

My notes? Everything that I am able to share has already been posted, except perhaps for the town -> scum list and the research questions. I'm not posting my town -> scum list because I'm still working who goes where on the spectrum (hence the research questions); even when I'm done, I suspect all I'll post are my null and scum reads, since I'd rather not have scum know who I trust in this game.

I actually have some doubts about that last part, since I'm not sure for how much longer that fear applies... I'll think about it.

More coming momentarily. This is taking a

lot

longer than I thought it would.

[Equinox]

This game. My head hurts.

I still so very much want MrDNA32 dead. Anything below is line is for the event that I cannot rally support from 3 more players to lynch clearly cautious scum.

I'm also ditching the IC hat, so this post is probably just a place for me to ramble outside of my text file, which has just now ballooned into a huge clusterbomb. I blame Uite. D:

---

Okay, here I go with a full game analysis. I admit that I should have done this earlier, as in as soon as I got into the game but the thing is I've been doing it all everytime (as Town, I do skip it as Mafia; you just have to take my word for it or scrape out every game I've played here) that I've gotten bored with it.

The parenthetical is not entirely true. Charlie did a commentary in Newbie 973, and with all the post numbers and page progress he posted, it might as well have been a page-by-page analysis. Charlie was scum in that game. The thing that also worries me is that he was much more detailed in that game than in this one, and Charlie admitted to this earlier; I haven't figured out yet whether this is related to alignment.

The other thing that worries me about Charlie's page-by-page is the amount of buddying he's done within it. I appreciate that he listed the origins of his reads and whatnot, but it looks like he's taken several opportunities to talk about how townie he thinks Flameaxe and I am, even feeding the hypothetical doctor a line to save me. (Ironically, he tried to kill me Night 1 in the aforementioned game and got blocked.) I don't like it.

Oh, ReaperCharlie is actually committed to the game after all. That catch-up post at the bottom of the page looks good and all, but I find it slightly disconcerting that our reads vary a lot. How are we going to reach a consensus like this?

Actually, ReaperCharlie's pretty much the odd ball out; his list is the reverse of most of the others' (the ones who posted lists, anyway).

Why are you worried about reaching consensus with him, though? You have him in your top 3.

I think I would vote for Charlie. Let's see the next contender.

---

I don't know how well I can convey this, but let's give it a shot anyway. I'm tired and I want to use tomorrow on something else. (Sorry.)

Looking at mikemike778's posts in isolation, his play has improved from page 1 to page 2.

The problem I'm having right now is my gut tells me to not lynch him, yet when I look at his posts in detail, I want to lynch him, and I run around in circles trying to figure out which goblet goes on which side of the table and which side I choose when Sicilian Guy turns around. I think I really need sleep right now... Sigh.

Okay, screw this. I can barely think straight. I'm going to bed. Someone remind me to look at his bandwagon at some point before the day ends.

[Charlie]

---

Okay, here I go with a full game analysis. I admit that I should have done this earlier, as in as soon as I got into the game but the thing is I've been doing it all everytime (as Town, I do skip it as Mafia; you just have to take my word for it or scrape out every game I've played here) that I've gotten bored with it.

The parenthetical is not entirely true. Charlie did a commentary in Newbie 973, and with all the post numbers and page progress he posted, it might as well have been a page-by-page analysis. Charlie was scum in that game. The thing that also worries me is that he was much more detailed in that game than in this one, and Charlie admitted to this earlier; I haven't figured out yet whether this is related to alignment.

Oh... okay, I didn't really notice. I'm going to be honest and tell you that that's the way it is. I suppose, in that game as Mafia, I was trying to blend in. And the thing about detail... how can you ascertain/quantify how much detail I've put in? Also, I'm not sure if we're talking about relative content since this game is only 11 pages long.

The other thing that worries me about Charlie's page-by-page is the amount of buddying he's done within it. I appreciate that he listed the origins of his reads and whatnot, but it looks like he's taken several opportunities to talk about how townie he thinks Flameaxe and I am, even feeding the hypothetical doctor a line to save me. (Ironically, he tried to kill me Night 1 in the aforementioned game and got blocked.) I don't like it.

Take my word for it that I've done this before and I was Town. This is normal. If you cannot, then I guess I could provide links if you want to see them.

Actually, ReaperCharlie's pretty much the odd ball out; his list is the reverse of most of the others' (the ones who posted lists, anyway).

Why are you worried about reaching consensus with him, though? You have him in your top 3.

Maybe so, but the reason I'm agreeable to his lynch is because he's behaving anti-town, not really scummy. Trying to reach consensus is a good thing. I'm trying to start a trend where people start listening to each other for a bit (Town listening and agreeing with Town), something which I find very much lacking of late. Doesn't hurt to try, hmm?

-----------

Equinox, it is quite important for me for you to have a Town read on me because in all probability, I'd sheep your vote and I'll certainly not sheep it if you're voting/inclined to vote for me.

[ReaperCharlie]

Equinox, it is quite important for me for you to have a Town read on me because in all probability, I'd sheep your vote and I'll certainly not sheep it if you're voting/inclined to vote for me.

Why would you sheep his vote?

You've been on the site longer than he has. Longer than I have too, for that matter.

[ReaperCharlie]

Equinox, it is quite important for me for you to have a Town read on me because in all probability, I'd sheep your vote and I'll certainly not sheep it if you're voting/inclined to vote for me.

Why would you sheep his vote?

You've been on the site longer than he has. Longer than I have too, for that matter.

ebwop: Oh wait, not longer than I have. I mixed up April (his) and Dec (yours).

[Charlie]

Well, if one presents a reasonable case which I find convincing, I would sheep that player's vote. There are circumstances where I won't, such as if I have a strong Town read on said suspect. That would require some deep thought.

[ReaperCharlie]

I do not like that answer, said ReaperCharlie. Not one bit.

[Charlie]

Its okay, you'll grow into it. I have nothing else to say.

[ReaperCharlie]