Mini 1097: Simple Mafia

[TheButtonmen]

Vote: TheButtonmen

Vote: Guderian

Yesterday you made a post in Newbie 1027 which had just ended discussing how you felt the game went; you were lynched in that game November 17th so there is no way your "brother" could have made the post game analysis post.

Lying is bad.

Linked below is the Conrad post Guderian made in #161, in three different games, at the exact same time. I don't see how TBM could've missed them if he went through Guderian's posts...

Mini 1094
Newbie 1034
Pick Your Power 4

Mind explaining how his "brother" made these posts (1,2,3,4,5,6) about a game where Guderian was lynched on November 17th during the time period his "brother" had stolen his account? Unless your saying his "brother" went back, read Guderians previously completed games and decided to make postgame analysis posts about how he felt the game went and discussing Guderians playstyle?

I'm aware he posted it in multiple games, that doesn't change the fact he's lying.

[TheButtonmen]

Post / Vote tomorrow after I'm done a reread.

[Plum]

I think this is related to the generally accepted sorts of talking about other games, which include such things as whether a player is/has been/will be around the site. I think if 'Player X mentioned he'd be V/LA in this other game, so he probably won't be around' is okay, this ought to be as well. In any case TBM is probably the scummiest player around on gameplay and such left anyway, but I'll need to do a proper evaluation of that soon.

Preview Edit: TBM, you thought that Guderian was lying as scum in all those games at once? Or what? That's one of the more ridiculous statements I've been exposed to recently.

[TheButtonmen]

No I'm saying he was lying period; nothing about faction at all.

[Plum]

...

Yeah no. I am so damn tempted to vote you right here right now just for that. Hammering with a pure policy vote on Day 2 in a 9-player game, even one where scum got lynched Day 1, is not something a Townie with a brain does. Nope. Not a chance. And I have it on good faith that you, dear sir, are in possession of a brain of most excellent quality and must conclude that the likely case is you are currently attempting to use that gray matter for nefarious purposes. But I

will

reread you just for laughs and giggles. Probably after I study for my Calc test.

[Empking]

Vote Count 8

StrangerCoug
Nachomamma8
CooLDog
TheButtonmen
Plum

Not Voting: StrangerCoug, Nachomamma8, CooLDog, TheButtonmen, Plum

With five alive its three to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

No mod action, so I'm assuming Nachomamma8 is OK. I'm still puzzled as to the unvote of TheButtonmen, though.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: TheButtonmen

I figured that I might as well cover all of the bases so I wouldn't get modkilled...

[TheButtonmen]

Kincaid the Very Vengeful Villager

has been lynched.

You thought everyone was disarmed for this meeting but the sudden bark of a pistol quickly shatters this misconception as Kincaid doesn't die easily or alone.

Kincaid suddenly pulls a pistol and shoots

[Redacted]

!

The deaths have started there is no turning back now....

Those with QT may now use them until the start of D2.

I will not be accepting night actions until Smarg has responded with her choice regarding the vengeful kill.

[TheButtonmen]

Errr whoops?

Please delete, wrong thread.

[Empking]

I can't delete it. Do you want me to edit it? (I'd prefer not to intefere if it isn't important.)

[TheButtonmen]

As long as you don't mind it cluttering your thread I'm fine with it being left there.

Sorry for the delay people I had a player request replacement right near deadline I had to sort out and then a lynch / vengeful kill to sort out.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh I've done worse, TheButtonmen. Don't worry.

I've had some time to let it sink in, and I couldn't agree more with #179 by Plum. I'm practically on a date with Lynch All Liars myself, but you're supposed to take what alignment someone probably is into account when you vote someone post-RVS, not go "I don't care what you are; you did this wrong; goodbye."

VOTE: TheButtonmen

[TheButtonmen]

I've had some time to let it sink in, and I couldn't agree more with #179 by Plum. I'm practically on a date with Lynch All Liars myself, but you're supposed to take what alignment someone probably is into account when you vote someone post-RVS, not go "I don't care what you are; you did this wrong; goodbye."

He was at L-1, defending himself terribly with decent case against him with players seeming solid in their desire to see him lynched and no possible counterwagons on people I found suspicious, the only reason I didn't hammer when I unvoted Plum is because of my meta'ing him showed that his style of defence had been used before as town and because I felt we hadn't gotten enough information out of day 2 as there hadn't been any good counter wagons (See my post #158)

He then lied and I'm a fairly strong support of LAL and thus I became comfortable with ending the day there.

[Nachomamma8]

the only reason I didn't hammer when I unvoted Plum is because of my meta'ing him showed that his style of defence had been used before as town and because I felt we hadn't gotten enough information out of day 2 as there hadn't been any good counter wagons

But how did this change when he lied? You knew that the lie had absolutely nothing to do with alignment, so why didn't you at least wait for the answers to your questions?

[Empking]

Vote Count 8.2

StrangerCoug
Nachomamma8
CooLDog
TheButtonmen (2) - Nachomamma8, StrangerCoug
Plum

Not Voting: CooLDog, TheButtonmen, Plum

With five alive its three to lynch.

Plum has been prodded.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm

V/LA until the 26th

and may you all have a happy whatever you do(n't) celebrate.

[CooLDoG]

I'ma back, catching up...

[CooLDoG]

no, I lost my post, shit.

Aww well you guys will have to deal with the un-epic cliffnotes version...

I don't think the day would have ended any different, gard was lynch fodder. I'll have to do re-read when I have more time on my hands... but I don't like tbm play as of late. I don't buy the lal thing. I will read more before I commit to a lynch.

[Plum]

Prodded, sorry, hold for post.

[StrangerCoug]

For a moment, I thought it was night...

Mod: Please prod everybody that hasn't announced V/LA.

[Nachomamma8]

Waiting for a TBM response. Also, Plum? We're still holding.

no, I lost my post, shit.

I wonder how long it would've taken you to type it back up; after all, you posted this only 8 minutes after your previous post...

[Plum]

Button, why'd you random vote IS (after my half-reasoned RVS vote on him) while asking these questions:

VOTE: CooLDoG for sucking.

Is he actually policy worthy or is this just RVS stage stuff.

Anyways, confirm and all that jazz, preemptive OMGUS

vote: Plum

.

You have never played a game with Plum before as far as I can tell so I'm curious why you would assume she's going to vote you.

?

@SC, I wanted him to claim, but after it became apparent that he wouldn't I threw the hammer. That was it.

Previous to your demand on the LC show:

Not claiming for such a terrible wagon.

Needless to say, if I'm a PR and claim, I'm outed and probably useless for the rest of the game. If I'm a VT and claim, mafia won't kill me and town won't trust me. I see no reason why I should claim. Leaving the ambiguity is better.
Besides, PR claims should never be the basis of your lynch decision. I've pushed for lynches on unclaimed players before and have even hammered them from time to time because I felt that a claim was irrelevant - they were just that scummy.

Even though I want to maintain ambiguity? I still stand by my argument that claimign is bad. If we go into
Night with an unclaimed player who is seen as scummy, it leaves WIFOM for scum. They might worry that a
Vig will kill me. They might worry that I'm a powerful PR. Or they might just think I'm VT and worth keeping alive.

A claim will just make night into one of two scenarios instead of opening up cans of WIFOM.

What made you think he'd listen, especially given that you didn't make any real counterarguments to his 'I'm not going to claim' stance:

@Lord cable, how about this: claim or die. Not being trusted for the rest of the game is better then getting hammered. It will cause some problems down the road for the town if you don't claim.

Button, why did you sheep IS and vote me immediately Day 1? You commented on me little if at all Day 1, if I recall, so. Why didn't you attack SC, whom you'd had issues with Day 1?

Also Button - what in the world were your thoughts about Guderian's play, especially his Day 1 play, when you posted this:

Lets start off with

Unvote: Plum

for now.

Re: Guderian He doesn't have enough finished games to really meta him but he has had this style (belligerent, demanding people explain why they are voting him rather then scumhunting) as town before, that combined with the lack of competing wagons so far today leads me to ask the following.

@IS, Plum and SC:

How open are you to moving your votes?

? And who was your top suspect at the time and why? Why did you not speak much if at all about your suspects Day 2?

Also, please answer:

Lets start off with

Unvote: Plum

for now.

@IS, Plum and SC:

How open are you to moving your votes?

1. Why unvote me?

CooLDoG: What exactly were the results of the following:

In light of the Guderian and Plum debate, I'm going to iso both of them right now.

?

tl;dr

- Button,talk. And also, claim please. I have a hammer in hand and am tempted to use it.

[TheButtonmen]

This is my response to Plum; thoughts on current game to follow tommorrow as it is currently zero dark thirty and Buttons is very sleepy.

Button, why'd you random vote IS (after my half-reasoned RVS vote on him) while asking these questions:

It wasn't random, I never randomly vote. I voted him because of this post.

Button, why did you sheep IS and vote me immediately Day 1? You commented on me little if at all Day 1, if I recall, so. Why didn't you attack SC, whom you'd had issues with Day 1?

I didn't vote you D1 so I'm going to assume you mean D2 (feel free to correct me if I misunderstand)

I voted you because LC's expectation of interaction with you made you a person of interest so starting a bandwagon on you was something I was interested in. I didn't attack SC as outside of him bandwagoning badly he never caught my interest at that point in time.

Also Button - what in the world were your thoughts about Guderian's play, especially his Day 1 play, when you posted this:

Nothing from his D1 play really stood out for me; the only note I made of him D1 was that he was sitting back and sniping a fair bit but with how short it was and only one wagon to judge him off of I didn't really take anything away from his D1 play. As for his later play I found his response to the cases made against him much more damning then the actual cases but as I said the partial meta I was able to preform on him made me believe that his response wasn't too sure of a scum tell.

At that time my top suspect was fluctuating between you and Guderian (You for the interesting comments by LC and Guderian for his response to being attacked). I didn't speak too much about my suspects as I had nothing solid to latch onto and there was never enough votes free to start a wagon. I unvoted because there was enough votes tied up / inactive that I couldn't get a wagon on you started so I was starting to see if I could get Nacho, IS, Sc or you to free up your vote to be used in a wagon.

Claim: Mafia Goon

[CooLDoG]

@Plum, The results were that Plum didn't really have any scummy evidence. Gard did have some scumyness but both (at the time) were nutral reads.
@TBM, I assume that role claim is town? correct?