DEFCON Mafia 2.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Jack]

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

What on earth are you trying to say here?

[Toogeloo]

I'm saying it's pretty easy to say that almost half the town is scum and look like you are scum hunting.

[Jack]

No it isn't. You have to make up **** about 8 people, and scum are scumhunting the other team this game so the point is irrelevant from the start.

[gandalf5166]

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

Errr....... There are six scum in this game. I think it's highly likely that at LEAST five of them are on that list.

[SpyreX]

5 would be a slam dunk.

I doubt its that awesome. 3-4? Yes.

[danakillsu]

Scumz:
Dana and toog: these two are on a scumteams, and im not sure why the rest oft he game is ingroing this. toogeloo is voting me for pushing a dana lynch, and he keeps saying that im pushing a policy lynch on dana. and the more he repeats himself even though i have shown how it is not a PL, the more other people who are skimming or just susucptible to pyscholodgy say "wow fate is pushign a PL? tahts weiurd" hes taken my one stastnement from way back when where i said if dana was town he was useless to town, whioch was me commenting on his meta, and twisted it into painting my whole push for danascum as policy.

This is positively idiotic. We are not retarded or newbs. If you think it's this easy to catch scum, all I can say is that your voting and reads make a lot more sense to me. What sane group of people from this site would not have at least one person who realized that you have said nothing but policy-related crap that tells us why you are voting for me? Toogeloo is just that person this time. What good would it really do either of us to "buddy" each other so blatantly if we were both scum. Now I suppose Toogeloo could be scum, but even that doesn't seem right considering just how obvious this alliance is.

[Jack]

dana, explain your jed vote.

[Fate]

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

heh.
hehhee

HAHAHAHHAHHAHA

[Wall of Content]
Toog: HES CALLIN A LOT OF PEOPLE SCUMMMMMM

And your snarkiness is back. I have NEVER and anyone who knows me knows that while I gloat about being right when IM WRONG I sulk and feel like shit.

ANDD ANDANDNADNA

Nice misrep. Those are all my suspects and my thoughts on them. Are they ALL scum? I never said that, in fact the last one was explicitly: "These are weak suspects I have no real read on due to lack of posts, but Id start with them when looking for scum off both wagons"

How you turned ALL THAT into "faking scumhunting" is beyond me, OHWAITURSCUM

[Fate]

Scumz:
Dana and toog: these two are on a scumteams, and im not sure why the rest oft he game is ingroing this. toogeloo is voting me for pushing a dana lynch, and he keeps saying that im pushing a policy lynch on dana. and the more he repeats himself even though i have shown how it is not a PL, the more other people who are skimming or just susucptible to pyscholodgy say "wow fate is pushign a PL? tahts weiurd" hes taken my one stastnement from way back when where i said if dana was town he was useless to town, whioch was me commenting on his meta, and twisted it into painting my whole push for danascum as policy.

This is positively idiotic. We are not retarded or newbs. If you think it's this easy to catch scum, all I can say is that your voting and reads make a lot more sense to me. What sane group of people from this site would not have at least one person who realized that you have said nothing but policy-related crap that tells us why you are voting for me? Toogeloo is just that person this time. What good would it really do either of us to "buddy" each other so blatantly if we were both scum. Now I suppose Toogeloo could be scum, but even that doesn't seem right considering just how obvious this alliance is.

You want to dance? Yes it is easy to catch scum, especially in two scumteam games, because SCUM DONT WANT THEIR BUDDIES TO DIE.

If Toog was your scumpartner, and I was in the game, and I was tunneling him, and you knew I could get him lynched, and you only had 3 members total, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Serious fucking question

And its NOT policy related crap. You are just hyping that up with toog so that everyone gets it imbedded into their fufcking psychology through repetition that "oh whats the case on dana? policy? ah nvm"

SO HERE LET ME FIX THAT FOR YOU:

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

DANA IS FUCKING SCUM FOR MULTIPLE REASONS AND MULTIPLE POSTS THAT HE HAS MADE

IN THIS THREAD

. READ HIS ISO

[Faraday]

vote for jed is scummy enough by itself, really.

[chesskid3]

meh, i'm not 100% on dana anymore.
I still think he's like 90% town but there are creeping doubts. meh.

[gandalf5166]

vote for jed is scummy enough by itself, really.

Wrong.

[Faraday]

i;'m never wrong get outta my face

[SocioPath]

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

That's almost half the game...

Regardless of the specifics in this game...

Going to the extremes...
It is way more productive to call everyone scum and point to reasons as such...
Then it is to call everyone town with reasons as such.

Finding everything that everyone does as scummy is good in order to eventually sort the crap out from the fatal slips.


The shotgun approach is very effective.
Shoot a shit ton of scatter shot and see what sticks.

[Toogeloo]

The shotgun approach is very effective.
Shoot a shit ton of scatter shot and see what sticks.

Seems kind of lazy to me.

[SocioPath]

Actually it is quite the opposite.

[Percy]

Jed went from I am a martyr for the cause of the holy and just town controlled nukes to I'm nukin gan first chance I get.

As far as I see Jed is being called scum for being loud and lioudly saying things that are loud because he has to stick to said loudness and can't back dwon because he's already chosen his "fake townie mask" or some shit.

Hmmm. I think Jed's turnaround was emotion driven, and I think Fate's read is better. A little later there's this exchange:

He threw in all his dice on the vig's and when that didn't float it became abundantly clear his 150+ posts were NOT actually a stance he cared about.

This is nonsense. He got pissed when people weren't going to follow the plan he cared about and said "well **** you then". That's evidence that he DID care.

Again I agree with not-SpyreX. I'm crediting his latter argument to frustration than his former argument to disingenuous scumlogic.

*LURKS UNTIL VOTES ACTIVATE*

VOTE: JED

*GOES BACK TO LURKERING*

Urgh. I'm assuming he means nukes...

And before Fate asks, between dana and Jed, I would lean towards Jed's lynch, but he doesn't need more votes right now.

I really didn't like this. Jed was L-6, and Toogeloo voted Baby Spice...?

Where do you get this shit? Bunch of god damn communist retards, seriously.

I am so seriously going to nuke the fuck out of anyone else that accuses me of lurking. Is this some sort of communist scum ploy? Because if it is, its the dumbest scum tactic. EVER.

Jed and Jack, communist idiots. IMBECILES! Seriously.

Again I get the feeling that this attitude is far too over the top. This is scum language, imo.

Pound for pound, IS has more content than most.

Defending IS, Spy? Really?
And when you defended him based on post count, that was hilarious. So many posts of IS's are just
I'M
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
SO AMERICAN IT HUUUUURTS
...

Sorry, I've been really busy the last few days. It's probably not going to be that much better over Christmas, but I'll try to stop by once a day.

Vote: JedCooper

I'd rather see Jed go than Dana, atm. The sheer number of posts seems like an overcompensation for something; and as Spy has pointed out, most of that is this "control the nukes" strategy that he seemed to push so hard that it looks disingenuous to me now that he's abandoned it. It looks like he tried to work himself out of the corner he had gotten himself stuck in, but did it too soon or too explicitly. If he'd stuck to his guns, I probably would have treated it as misguided or optimistic principles, but the "I'MA NUKE GANDALF" doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention, I have no idea why he'd say that if he was never intending to put Silo on his preference list.

As for Dana, I get that his "DEFCON 5 SUXX" vs "DEFCON 4 WOO CONTENT" seemed arbitrary, which I think is a legitimate point against him, but I don't think it's as strong as Jed's insistence on/dropping of his strategy combo.

Did we ever agree about Sub claiming or not? I don't think that town should fear outing themselves as having it, as they don't really need to hide their kills.

This post is scum city.

Firstly, it seems quite obvious to me that Jed overreacted and is being punished for it. "He posts so much, he must be scum" is one of the most terrible arguments ever, and I think controlling the nukes is extremely pro-town. It seems like AV has spotted some logical contradictions or places where Jed didn't think things through, and has concluded that it makes Jed scum. AV, you're better than that!

And then there's a wishy-washy position on dana before talking about sub claiming, which is nothing but a distraction.

And RedCoyote said he liked this post! Why?!

Make people claim their submitted lists before they die.

This idea is OK, I guess. More information is better than less information, and we could possibly catch scum. However, the danger is that people may get fixated on the content. For example, last game I got a lot of flack from a player for choosing Eavesdrop, because only scum would do that, apparently. It could introduce a lot of unneccesary WIFOM, and the players who are stealth bombed won't be able to help us assess our preferences. Its benefits are dubious at best, and could even lead to outing of PRs.

Overall, I'd say players who are going to be lynched or nuked should include their preference list with their claim, but we should be mindful of all the stuff I just said.

Liking AV again this game (Post 454)

I did a serious when you said this. You were scum last game...? This makes no sense.

Scum are probably going to be exceptionally careful about nuking someone in this game.

FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
This is not only not true, but you're making it sound like you should get town points for nuking carelessly.
2scum4scum is a

fallacy

to be

avoided

.

I didn't notice the change. Sub is much easier to catch now.

How do you figure? It looks, if anything, more difficult to catch. In the last game you only got one "hidden" nuke, but in this game it looks like all the nukes are hidden.

Because a sub defaulted to a silo in the old game, and we'll have at least 10 people in this game with silos. The claim "I got a silo like everyone else" is not available to the person who got the sub. Therefore, they'll be easier to catch.

According to Fate, we have 8 Scum in this game:

dana
Toog
IS
Jed
bunny
bob
av
Kat

That's almost half the game... Even if 7 of the 8 flip town, if that 8th flips scum, I guarantee Fate will be like, "I told you so, my reads are awesome!"

I absolutely

hated

this post. You're clearly not a noob, and trying to make someone look bad for doing

too much scumhunting

makes my head spin.


Hmmm....

Vote: AurorusVox

HoS: InternetStranger

FoS: SpyreX

FoS: Toogeloo

FoS: RedCoyote

dana and gandalf had FoS's from me before, so together they're my preliminary suspects.


As for the dropped messages:

from the first post by mod here skipping duplicate words

Whatever.

Appear clean dare fyi furry -naturally.

I believe the first post is the key to a code one of the scum factions are using. Without being able to see it, it is completely useless at this time.
The second post may be complete misdirection, or again some sort of code. We'll have to wait for more messages to assess whether they're using a code via pattern analysis.

[chesskid3]

i thought codes were illegal

(The use of external encryption tools is prohibited. Simpler methods of deception are permitted. --AGM)

[AurorusVox]

dana, explain your jed vote.

Jack, explain your AV vote.

Oh herpderp hypocrisy what?

---

Percy: I don't think that Jed wanting to control nukes makes him scummy. I think him folding on it makes him scummy. If you think it is pro-town for him to want to control nukes, what do you make of him saying "Fuck this shit, I'll happily nuke Gandalf", especially considering that he has explicitly stated that he doesn't want a silo anywhere on his ten-strong preference list? I also made it clear that I thought that IF he'd stuck to his guns then I'd have found him more pro-town. And yes, I treat logical inconstancies as scumtells. Holding people to a standard of consistency is a great way of catching scum who aren't honest about their intentions.

[SocioPath]

*LURKS UNTIL VOTES ACTIVATE*

VOTE: JED

*GOES BACK TO LURKERING*

Urgh. I'm assuming he means nukes...

No, Jed said I was lurking.
So I was *already lurking* when the votes activated at DEFCON 3.
So then I voted him.
And then went back to my jed-called lurking.

[Jack]

@percy: yessssss

@AV: die soon

[Toogeloo]

I absolutely

hated

this post. You're clearly not a noob, and trying to make someone look bad for doing

too much scumhunting

makes my head spin.

Except he didn't

do

any real scum hunting, besides

possibly

bunny. Everyone else was a generalized statement about activity, most things that had been mentioned at some point prior, and continued to push the, "dana and toog scumteam because they are buddiez," argument.

[SpyreX]

Defending IS, Spy? Really?
And when you defended him based on post count, that was hilarious. So many posts of IS's are just
I'M
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
TOO AMERICAN FOR MY SHIRT
SO AMERICAN IT HUUUUURTS
...

Again.

AGAIN.

I am not 'defending' IS in the OMG HE IS TOWN sense.

I am saying his placement on that list is junk.

Further, I am saying, pound for pound, if one reads the TOO AMERICAN dance almost ALL of those are at least actual balls out X is scum or Y is town business versus Jed's amazing amount of... nothing.

[AurorusVox]

What a surprise that Jack's now piggybacking off of Percy's argument. That's a direct avoidance of my question twice now, on top of hypocrisy about someone else not providing reasons. If you agree with everything Percy said, then you can answer my question to him in my previous post as well.

[AurorusVox]

"He posts so much, he must be scum" is one of the most terrible arguments ever [...]

And then there's a wishy-washy position on dana before talking about sub claiming, which is nothing but a distraction.

Whoops, drunkposting last night and did not respond to these parts.

(1) I think that's a misrep about my "terrible argument" - I know high post count does not indicate scum, but it seems like in Jed's case this sheer volume is the explicit and extreme attempt to

look

awesometownie (a subtler version of IS's persistent patriotism); as I said, it seems to be overcompensating.

(2) I don't think I was wishy-washy on Dana. I was commenting on his wagon. Dana was/is not my #1 suspect but I can see the merits of the wagon against him. I don't use FoS'es but if it clarifies, I would have FoS'd at that point, which is to say I'd have voted him but for Jed.

(3) Well I figured that if we wanted the sub to claim we probably ought to say so, so that scum doesn't keep quiet and then later on say "Oh yeah I have the sub sorry didn't realise I was meant to out myself."