Mini 1087 - The Dresden Files Game Over!

[Oopidstay]

/confirm that two former players of this game are a bunch of horseapples. I'd like to start the game ASAP.

[Oopidstay]

Also I don't know anyone, but that's nothing new.

[Oopidstay]

VOTE: LMP
ZOMGSCUM!!

Is there a particular reason for this, or is it just random lulz?

Vote: CityofAss

because I agree with Zdenek.

[Oopidstay]

VOTE: LMP
ZOMGSCUM!!

Is there a particular reason for this, or is it just

random lulz

?

I'm not even voting him anymore. C'mon now. Keep up.

I was just curious if it was some past interaction with LMP that triggered the vote or if you just picked a random player for shits and giggles, 'tis all.

Upon preview edit, it appears that Mr. Parker is having a panic attack...

[Oopidstay]

If you're serious, I'm going to be thoroughly pissed.

Unvote: CityofAss.
Vote: Mariyta.

You seem too on edge to be town. You got rather snappish with the question I asked you just a bit earlier, too.

[Oopidstay]

A) That wasn't snappish. That was joking.
B) On edge is not the term. Pissed works much better. I've been waiting for this game and if that butthead kills me on page two, I will not be a happy camper.

A. I asked a rather innocuous question about your LMP vote, and your immediate response was "I'm not even voting him anymore", like I'd made an accusation or something.

B. Your first response to the daykill post was "Not cool...", which is hardly what I'd call pissed. It seems more like freaked-out scum not sure how to handle the situation, so you play a neutral response in hope of getting more information.

@ Antihero: What's wrong with Fate?

[Oopidstay]

Preview edit that isn't so edit: That post was entirely serious in its intention.

Is that so? Guess you get a leash for the rest of the game, then.

Why do you wish you'd vigged me instead, btw?

[Oopidstay]

You don't seem at all upset that he killed (or at least shows inclination to kill) someone ON PAGE 2. You seriously think it's ok to start shooting random people this early in the game?

Come on, now, I hardly made any such statement. Until now, I'd been treating the daykill as a joke. As indicated in my last post, I think we ought to have tight town control over who DP kills, since he has an itchy trigger finger (hence the "leash" remark).

Just because DP daykilled you unexpectedly early doesn't mean I need to go "GODFUCKINGDAMMITDPWHATTHEFUCKAREYOUDOING?!?!?!?" Or that I need to start singing a dirge in your honor, either.

[Oopidstay]

And I'm slow on the uptake...

[Oopidstay]

I am not seeing the Fate wagon at all. Fitz is troubling me with his "going through the motions" of RVS even though we had a fairly outstanding issue (the fake daykill) going on before he posted.

FoS: HavingFitz

Mari, why am I not fine by you?

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: DP, what convinced you to change your mind on Mari?

[Oopidstay]

Unvote: Mariyta. Vote: havingfitz.

I'm still suspicious of you, Mari, but fitz is just demanding some attention, here.

You don't need to unvote fyi.

[Oopidstay]

@ Mari: What were you expecting from me? Should I have berated DP for offing such a sweet lass as yourself? Should I have held your limp corpse in my arms and drowned it in my tears? What, exactly, did you expect me to do?

It's not like I sat on my hands and did nothing. On the contrary, I felt that the kill was likely a fake, so I used the opportunity to pressure you. Maybe it wasn't the reaction you expected, or wanted, but it was hardly a nonchalant stance.

[Oopidstay]

@ Mari: What were you expecting from me? Should I have berated DP for offing such a sweet lass as yourself? Should I have held your limp corpse in my arms and drowned it in my tears? What, exactly, did you expect me to do?

Now yer diggin' where there's 'taters!

*is not quite sure what the expression means*

[Oopidstay]

You hit the nail on the head?

Ah.

Next time you get killed, I'll weep profusely over your corpse, I promise.

[Oopidstay]

[Oopidstay]

The "Dammit HavinFitz it's only been five hours!" Vote Count:

DavidParker: Mariyta
Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz
Mariyta: DavidParker, Oopidstay,Antihero
CityofAs : Zdenek
LMP: LMP

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Vote Count:

DavidParker: Mariyta
Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz
Mariyta: DavidParker, Oopidstay,Antihero
CityofAs : Zdenek
LMP: LMP

Vote Count:

Fate: , smargaret, HavingFitz

Vote Count:

Fate:

,

I demand to know who this mysterious voter is!

In other news,

FoS: smargaret

because I agree with what Antihero said about her. That being said, Anti, it seems like an odd reason to criticize fitz (re: the Post 60 line), given that you were voting Fate yourself. Could you throw some light on this, please?

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: That being said, Anti,

you seem to have an odd reason

for criticizing fitz...

*grammar repair SUCCESSFUL!*

[Oopidstay]

Starting to wish I had day-vidge'd Oopidstay instead of Mariyta... Sigh.

Why's that? (Asking again because I never got an answer the first time.)
Also, what did Mari do to get you to unvote her? (Again, didn't get an answer the first time.)

You don't need to unvote fyi.

I like unvoting.

I agree with this. town should not be pissed at getting killed... it happens. you can still win, so be happy.

That's not true, actually. Town has every right to get pissed at getting killed. My issue with Mariyta was my perception that she was too edgy (and to be honest, I quoted the wrong post at the time; it was her post immediately after the fake daykill that really caught my eye) for the state of the game we were in. Subtle difference, yet important.

I have no flavor knowledge.

smarg's 106 reads a lot like scumposting.

Oh god wallpost...

#45

I read something into Mari's response, so I followed it.

#48

Her snarky response to my question implied an accuastory tone to me. Also, scum are perfectly capable of trying to put a mask over their true feelings. So it's not unreasonable that Mariscum could feel freaked out, yet show a neutral response in her posts.

#55 was answered in my reply to Mariyta near the top of Page 4.

#58

At that point, I bit into DP's ploy and started treating it seriously. The post immediately following it was me realizing that DP had just admitted to the daykill being fake. Hence, "I'm slow on the uptake..."

#71

I hardly treated the daykill nonchalantly at all. I instead chose to pressure Mariyta. See same top o' Page 4 post I mentioned earlier.

#75

Oh, puh

leeze

. The meat of your post was the comment to Mariyta, not your compliment to the mod. Do you really expect me to believe you're that ignorant?

#76

Oh...so you actually did read the top o' Page 4 post...I guess I can't give you the "didn't read the thread" excuse for all this shit, then.

In answer to the actuall question posed in the snippet, I thought the daykill was a joke, so I pressured Mariyta instead of DP. You, on the other hand, completely ignored the daykill shenanigans altogether, despite it being the prevalent issue at the time of your post.

Do I need to spell it out more, or can you get the picture from here?

#85 is so utterly irrelevant as far as a case against me goes. What was the point of posting it?

(reads rest of wallpost not devoted to me)

tl;dr: Fitz does a terrible job at imitating a content post.

I like my vote where it is, although smarg is a very tempting second choice.

[Oopidstay]

Arg, sorry for the longish post. Blame Fitz for all that gas I had to digest...

[Oopidstay]

(and yes I saw your questions oopid, they are just dumb. and refer to sarcastic/joking comments of mine)

I will say I have a town read on Mariyta and if you have to know why I'll say it's because she likes dogs.

Stop being a child and answer the questions, please.

[Oopidstay]

@ Mari: Too long; didn't read. It's used both as a prelude to a "summary" of a longer post and as an insult when someone makes a post that's way too long and full of insubstantial stuff.

@ Anti: I'm not seeing anything wrong with Fate, personally. It seems that the problem everyone else has with him is that he's not living up to his meta, if I'm understanding it correctly. I don't really see how that can be considered a scumtell, personally.

[Oopidstay]

FoS: smargaret

Because one wasn't enough, but I'm not ready to move my Fitz vote yet.

[Oopidstay]

Oop, did I miss something, or do you just not like my posts?

That, although the reason I don't like your posts is because they seem scummy. To elucidate on my most recent FoS, you were slinging mud on Antihero and justifying a bad DP vote.

[Oopidstay]

@ Anti: What is your stance on Fate and Fitz? (Yes, I know you're voting Fate.) Also, where's the Zed displeasure coming from all of a sudden?

[Oopidstay]

As the object of crap flings, I would guess fitz is town.

The "object" of crap flings? Town? Please explain this, as I vehemently disagree with both of those stances.

[Oopidstay]

As the object of crap flings, I would guess fitz is town.

The "object" of crap flings? Town? Please explain this, as I vehemently disagree with both of those stances.

"Fling" should have been singular, as I was referring to Zdenek alone.

My hypothesis of Zdenek scum taking a potshot at fitz, who looks like a viable wagon target, would suggest fitztown to me.

So what do you think about fitz's actual posts, which multiple people consider scummy enough to vote on? How does one person appearing to take a potshot at fitz suddenly invalidate the other concerns other people have with fitz?

FoS: Antihero

, because this is really starting to smell like bullshit to me...

[Oopidstay]

Fitz's initial passiveness is disconcerting, but I don't think fitz is as scummy as you or Mari seem to think.

So what is your opinion on Post #121, then? (Fitz's giant wall post.)

Don't let stupid emotions cloud your judgement. I know it's a little disappointing when someone doesn't agree with your scumreads, but really, you're not giving a good reason why this is faked.

So I shouldn't be concerned that you have a read on fitz that is diametrically opposed to mine, and runs counter to what I've seen other people express as well (hint: Mariyta is not the only person other than me who's shown displeasure with fitz)? From my point of view, you're naming my top suspect town, and haven't given a single good reason to convince me why.

What about you, hyena? Read Zdenek's ISO and see if you agree with my assessment of Z's play so far (won't take you long), please?

While he's had fewer sentences than fitz in this game, Zdenek has had better content,

by far

. Right now, in my mind, there's no way fitz is town over Zed.

[Oopidstay]

Meh, a bunch of noise and not very well supported opinions.
That could be a sign that fitz is acting like a fool, though.

Why are you so willing to dismiss Fitz's play as foolish rather than scummy?

First off, I never "named" fitz town. (see: the word "guess") Hence, my read isn't "diametrically opposed" to yours.

Please. This is pointless nitpicking over terminology.

Zed has better what? Content? Where?

That same ISO you referred me to awhile ago. Less posts + less sentences =/= less content. Fitz, by contrast, has had

more posts

* and sentences, yet drastically less content. In fact, I'll go so far as to say he's posted

no

honest content to this date.

*(not true actually, upon checking)

[Oopidstay]

DavidParker (1): Smargaret
Fate (1): smargaret

Oh hey, guys, we have a double voter.

Z hasn't done anything but sprinkle some random questions in this thread while not really ruffling any feathers. How is that not scummy?

Because his questions weren't random and he wasn't specifically

trying

to avoid ruffling feathers?

We're pretty much at an impasse regarding Fitz. I still don't get how you can justify Fitz's posting as an honest attempt to find scum, but there's no point in going for buddying tells until there's an alignment flip, so I'm going to move on.

Fitz's latest post is at least making some effort to avoid getting lynched, but I'm not liking the misrepping he's doing in the later parts of the post

[Oopidstay]

So do I take this to mean if you 'knew me' better you would not be voting me? I thought mafia was a game of deduction and investigation...not a popularity club.

2) So the fact I smiled at Antihero for using 'TIMIDITY ' to describe my RV is one of your voting factors? The old emoticon scumtell. Niiiiiice.......

There ya go.

Not sure what the cases are on me at the moment but if they are based on my emphatic RV or not commenting on DP's fake daykill they are reaching and most likely being pushed by scum.

Oopidstay being the most obvious.

Also waiting to see how you justify the above.

[Oopidstay]

First of all, LMP's self-vote. I've seen scum caught day one for essentially their self-vote and subsequent reaction to questioning. I'm still definitely worried about LMP because of this early move. I'm all the more concerned because when he made the self-vote, we'd already had the fake vig kill so we were well on the way out of RVS. The fact that he didn't have a plan to determine scum reactions from town reactions makes me think that he was just reaction fishing which was unnecessary at that point in the game.

This is absurd. The daykill was an OBVIOUS JOKE. Anyone with an IQ above single digits could tell it wasn't real. Why was it worthy of discussion or having an opinion of it at all? I also fail to see how it was by itself worthy of driving us out of RVS, or why more than one person taking actions that can drive us out of RVS is bad. Your suspicions are ridiculous.

Overly strong reaction, much? Fake daykills are a good conversation starter, IMO.

Oop, why are you going overboard about the votecount?

I was emphatically pointing out the mistake in the mod's vote count, 'cause that's how hyenas roll.

Happy birthday, by the way. Here, I got a rope for you as a birthday present...

[Oopidstay]

A ‘snarky response’ implied an accusation? I don’t really think this is an adequate response to my comment:

Only because you left out the second part of my quote. Here, let me bring up the whole thing again, for your convenience:

Her snarky response to my question implied an accuastory tone to me. Also, scum are perfectly capable of trying to put a mask over their true feelings. So it's not unreasonable that Mariscum could feel freaked out, yet show a neutral response in her posts.

I didn’t ask a question here...I simply stated I agreed with Mari’s interpretation of your reaction.

And at the time I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you hadn't read my explanation of the situation in #76.

So you admit you considered the post daykill to be fake by post 59...one post before I ~ignore the daykill. Yet you vote eventually vote me for not taking it seriously. This is still a contradicition on your part. You considered it a joke...did not take it seriously...yet when someone else doesn’t even bring it up they are guilty of not commenting on the “fairly outstanding issue (the fake daykill) going on before he posted.” Which to repeat...you had already dismissed as joke before I posted.

I never voted you just because you didn't take the daykill seriously. Rather, the vote was because, despite professing a distaste for the RVS, you were actively engaging in RVS practices

even though

there was an issue of significance (the fake daykill) that you could easily have commented on to avoid all pretense of RVS. This kind of hypocrisy is a little hard to ignore.

On a side note, although I thought of the daykill as a joke, I didn't simply sit on my hands and do nothing. I chose to take the opportunity to pressure the "daykill victim" and see how she'd respond. That's the difference between you and me--I did something with the significant issue, and you didn't.

At least two people would beg to differ. Your response on the top of page 4 was not convincing IMO.

Why wasn't it very convincing?

#75 was addressed to Mari. Do you mean for this response to be for #74 which was addressed to you? Assuming that is the case...your only reason for the vote was that I was demanding attention. This was directly after I answered Mari regarding my RV and complimented the mod. You were not clear in your vote reasoning. Are you voting me for my RV? Or for dismissing the aforementioned daykill which you already admit to considering as fake prior to my vote? How was I demanding attention?

Aye, I did mean #74. In reply to the quote, I assumed you would be smart enough to deduce that I wouldn't be voting you for something so trite as kissing up to the mod. I'm not stupid, you know (he's my brother).

Secondly...this is a game. There is no need to be a p-r-i-c-k by calling people ignorant and/or offering to s-p-e-l-l things out for them.

I will concur that the insults were not necessary, but to be honest, I feel you've been making some terribad posts, and it's driving me a bit crazy.

Your post was irrelevant. What purpose did it serve? It’s not a case against you. It appeared to be posting for the sake of posting...kind of like imitating content.

So pointing out an error in the mod's vote count with dramatic force is imitating content?

Your LMP push isn't that hot, either, IMO. Despite that, I'm still going to

FoS: LMP

.

I just realized that LMP made a self-vote to do some reaction hunting...while the fake daykill scenario was occurring. Hmm...redundant much?

@ Mariyta: Out of curiousity, what's your current stance on me?

[Oopidstay]

he second part of your quote, which I did not include, has nothing to do with the fact I do not think you provided an adequate response.

I want you to respond to it, anyway.

As I mention above in my LMP reply...I do not like RVing and I always RV. And 9.5 times out of 10 I'm town when I do it. So? And you continue to harp on the point that something significant had occured when I placed my RV that warranted some sort of action I apparently did not take...yet you have also pointed out you thought the daykill was fake by the time I made my RV...and I have pointed out that I disregarded it considering the source (DP). Why is it ok for you to consider on the one hand...DP's daykill a joke...but at the same time consider it a significant event that warranted some action or comment? Which btw several others chose not to do either. This is a much better example of that hypocrisy you allude to.

The fact that a daykill is fake does

not

suddenly make it an insignificant thing. The fact that it came from player you claim you tend to ignore for a spell does

not

suddenly make it an insignificant thing. Do me a favor and remind me of these "several others" you mention. And if you're going to start throwing meta at me, I'd like you to link multiple examples of you doing the same thing you're doing here,

as town

.

Because it did not convince me.

This is not a valid answer. I'll ask again: why didn't my reply convince you?

And yet you continue to belittle/undermine the comments/contributions of others with ad-hom attacks like, "I assumed you would be smart enough."

*headdesks* That was

not

intended as an insult. I honestly thought you'd be able to tell the difference.

You could have just pointed it out instead of putting up a mini-wall.

Your point? You still haven't shown why that post is "imitating content".

So you denigrate my case on LMP and then proceed to FoS him. Another example of playing both sides of the fence (ala the 'significant' fake daykill). While LMP is currently my vote option 1a...I have at least provided reasoning. Why are you FoSing him...since it couldn't be the 'not hot' push I made on him.

Are you talking to LMP or me...and what/who are you calling redundant.

Would it help if I rewrote the two paragraphs like this?

Your LMP push isn't that hot, either, IMO.

Despite that, I'm still going to FoS: LMP. I just realized that LMP made a self-vote to do some reaction hunting...while the fake daykill scenario was occurring. Hmm...redundant much?

I think the reasoning for your LMP case stinks, but I found a reason to FoS LMP that is entirely separate from your case. That better?

Speaking of which...LMP, I'm curious as to why you haven't responded to this, yet?

[Oopidstay]

Respond to what? You didn’t ask a question. And in the interest of not wasting time...if the answer doesn’t matter to you please don’t ask it.

The first part of my quote (the "snarky attitude" reply) was responding to the first sentence of your comment on #48. The second part of the quote (everything that follows the first part) is in reply to the rest of your comment on #48. Additionally, considering that I have already asked you

twice

to

specifically

respond to the second part of the quote, I think it's fairly obvious that I want you to respond to it.

So please, just respond to the damn quote.

This would be a matter of opinion...not fact. You say yourself you considered the daykill a joke. Others have dismissed it as a joke. I assumed it was a joke coming from DP and the question had already been asked as to whether he was serious so it did not need to be reiterated. IMO joke’s aren’t significant events...it didn’t warrant comment at the time. IMO your continued push on this point is scummy.

But you didn't bother to do

anything

with the reactions people gave, instead choosing to do something you said you hated to do. In my mind, you were

intentionally

doing something useless, when you could have at least

tried

to do something productive with the fake daykill. There was plenty of gold to mine, if you get my meaning.

Why is my push on this point scummy?

The ‘several others’ are listed in post 188.

And last time I checked, none of them stated that they disliked the RVS while going through the motions of RVS.

As for “examples of you doing the same thing you're doing here, as town”...could you be more specific. I assume you aren’t referring to my history of RVing. If so...you can easily find that yourself.

The examples I want are with regard to this statement:

I do not like RVing and I always RV. And 9.5 times out of 10 I'm town when I do it.

I can find them myself, if you insist, but it would make things a great deal easier if you just provided me the relevant examples yourself.

Wall post avoidance reply=> It is a valid response and because when I got done reading it I wasn’t convinced.

In case you didn't get the hint, I

want

a detailed explanation for why you weren't convinced.

Seriously? You deny that your "I assumed you would be smart enough" comment is insulting (and an ad hom attack) while making another in the same response, “I honestly thought you'd be able to tell the difference.” Niiiice.

With all due respect, you are taking things way,

way

too personally. I admit there was some attitude in the first one, but it was hardly an insult. The second statement wasn't an insult in any way whatsoever, and I

specifically

avoided putting any sign of an attitude in there. Let's just make my opinion frank and clear: your allegation that I voted you for "kissing up to the mod" was stupid. This is not the same thing as me saying "you are stupid".

votecount issue

I disagree with your assessment that all posting of "unnecessary" content is an attempt at "imitating" content, but I'll agree to drop the argument if you will.

"fitz"

First off...the above "fitz wrote" is not a quote by me...it's by you.[/quote]

So it is. My mistake.

And no...."better" would be if you indicated what you disagree with on my LMP points and provided your separate ‘reason’ with your FoS.

For the latter, that's what I did when I "rewrote" (although "restructured" is probably the better word, here) those two paragraphs. For the former, I don't think any of your points against LMP hold water. I don't have time to launch into the specifics now, so that'll have to wait for later.

[Oopidstay]

Activate:

PHOENIX WRIGHT MODE!!!

OK...still a bit behind on reads but one person has jumped out at me (aside from the person I am voting) and that is LynchMePls. He has not posted very much content and the content he has posted has IMO not been consistent or well supported.

At the very least LMP's content is superior to yours, if not several other players as well. I mean, if you're after lack of content and you aren't looking at yourself, Enigma's a very good way for you to go. LMP? Nuh uh.

In post 118 LMP votes CoA for bypassing his (CoA's) ‘pretty good suspicions’ towards me and infers suspicions himself towards me despite not mentioning me at any other point in the game to this point and without any reasoning. BTW....the ‘pretty good suspicions’ CoA expressed towards me consisted of:

@havingfits: obv random is weird. why try so hard to make a random vote? Looks like trying too hard to blend in.

So LMP agrees with CoA’s comments on me and also agrees with CoA that smarg is suspicious...yet votes him for picking an smarg vote over me.

This was LMP's first post since you made your entrance into the thread, so of course he hadn't mentioned you, yet. And it's very clear that LMP voted CityofAss for giving better reason to vote for you than smarg, yet voting smarg. Not even worth mentioning in the police report.

Then in the next post (119) LMP FoS’s smargaret (who he just voted CoA for voting for) on the basis that her scumhunting was just right. WTF?
Then lumps all three of us in a scumpool. While I do not doubt there could be scum in any grouping of three players...LMP is not giving any solid reasoning IMO.

The FoS was for smarg having just the right amount of

fake

scumhunting. And LMP has given better reasons for all of his votes than you have, so I'd be careful about calling the kettle black.

Post 147 - LMP piles on a bit with a QFT on some post 121 (my wallpost) bashing. Still no reasoning for suspecting me.

He's already agreed with CoA's earlier statement regarding you, and here he's just agreed with my sentiments about your wallpost. It's fairly obvious why he suspects you.

Post 154 - Although his LMP’s vote is still on CoA he points out that “we can’t go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today.”

The vote clearly stayed on there to incite CoA to respond to his questions. It's a perfectly valid way to use a vote.

When CoA asks why LMP still has a vote on him LMP responds with “You still hadn't addressed my points, and I didn't want you to lurk them away.” So LMP is not voting CoA for scummy actions but for not addressing LMP’s points against CoA...which at this point CoA had addressed and has since elaborated on.

LMP was still applying pressure to CoA, and thus it's perfectly acceptable for his vote to remain where it was.

Verdict: LynchMePls is found Not Guilty! He's as town as town can be!

Deactivating Phoenix Wright Mode...

Mod Edit: Red's my colour.

[Oopidstay]

tl;dr LMP is town, fitz's reasoning is bull, let's all have a

Mariyta

margarita.

[Oopidstay]

@Mod: That wasn't the same color red that you use. Unless you mean that

all

red is forbidden...

Mod Edit: For simplicities sake I reserve red (All shades, hues and flavours) for myself.

[Oopidstay]

Damn smarg dropped a town tell back on page 3, shoulda re-read sooner.

Unvote:
Vote: oopidstay

"why'd you wish you dayvigged me instead?" <-SCUM

DP wanting to dayvig me indicates that he thought I was scummy. I wanted to know why.

ITT: Scum asks town to explain why they shouldn't be pushing a mislynch instead of faking scumhunting to PUSH said mislynch.

PRETTY FUCKIN LAUGHABLE

Eh?

[Oopidstay]

Hey mod, do we have a deadline? The rules say that lack of majority vote at the end of the day results in no lynch, but I can't find any indication in this thread regarding when the day is supposed to end. Clarify, plz?

[Oopidstay]

Zd is making a strong case for scum. I still like fitz though.

QFT.

[Oopidstay]

Unvote: Havingfitz
Vote: Zdenek

*is not sheeping LMP*

That's L-2, if my count is correct.

[Oopidstay]

Because I can't seem to stop this wagon, I'm going to say that I would not be an acceptable lynch today. Please unvote.

OH HEY LOOK OBVSCUMPOST

[Oopidstay]

Oh well looks like you're dead to rights and need to claim now ANYWAYZ

I'm at L-2. I've soft claimed, and hopefully some people will have some sense.

It's ok, we can lynch you without a claim if you don't want to reveal your role.

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Zdenek

String 'em up, boys.

[Oopidstay]

Now you will be shot and proven: by the vig.

What vig?

VOTE: Oopidstay

You're too late. Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead.

[Oopidstay]

Zdenek DOESN'T DIE TODAY.

I don't think I made myself clear enough.

What vig?

This clown's rolefishing though, and needs rope.

You sure you're actually back, Fate? Because this is a whole load of bullshit.

• 1. There is no proof that we have a vig, so making plans that involve using one is completely pointless.
  
  2. Even if we have a vig, having him shooting Zed is also completely pointless.
  
  3. Me ridiculing you for wanting to leave Zed's fate to the hypothetical vig is not rolefishing.

Now put your vote back on Zed, or my black hyena foot will reach through your screen and kick your ass. Got it?

Flavor is absolutely pointless with regards to clearing people. Either any flavor role can be scum, or the mod gave the scum fakeclaims, so they won't get caught by the flavor.

FoS: Antihero

His Fate push looks artificial and contrived.

[Oopidstay]

<snip> oop's rolefishing <snip>

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oop

Super HoS: smargaret

The only reason this isn't a vote is because Zed's wagon is bigger and he needs lynching, too.

[Oopidstay]

I've been doing it the whole game, monkey poo flinger #3. Say something substantial or STFU.

Yeah, and it looked fake as hell then, too.

On a side note, you jumped off the wagon of someone whose claim you didn't believe at the time to go after someone who was/is nowhere close to getting lynched today. Hmm...

[Oopidstay]

The hypothetical vig is not shooting Zdenek, that was an oversight on my part.

The existence of the hypothetical vig shooting someone else makes Zdenek's role plausible.

Hence, Zdenek doesn't die today and we go after new targets.

Ok, I can buy this idea for now.

Unvote: Zdenek

Vote: smargaret

[Oopidstay]

*shakes head at Oop* The attempted hammer was bad, just bad bad bad.

How was it bad?

Well, smarg's so-called case is absolutely terrible, but I feel obligated to respond to it anyway, if only so I can say I'm not dodging anything. For those of you that already know that smarg's "case" is awful without needing my rebuttal to it, feel free to skip the rest of this post. Otherwise, hold on to your reading glasses.

Smarg's So-called Case

He's sheeping - Antihero's arguments on Mari, your arguments on me, LMP's arguments on Zdenek.

Fact: I started pushing Mariyta well before Antihero did. Fact: My #360 shows that I would've voted you save that I was still more interested in a Zed lynch (which Fate has talked me out of, for the moment), and this came before Fate's vote for you. Fact: Two players sharing similar reactions (re: LMP and me) does not mean one player is sheeping the other.

Additional Fact: I have spent a significant portion of this game driving the case behind Havingfitz, yet you fail to make any mention of this.

The FOS's all rub me the wrong way - one or two, okay, but the pattern of FOS someone and then two-three posts later vote them seems off, like testing the waters.

So if something changes shortly after I FoS someone and it makes me want to vote for the player I just FoSed, I shouldn't put my vote where I feel it's best served? What about the other FoSes I've made that haven't resulted in a vote (Antihero being a prime example)? What, exactly, is scummy about the way I decide to FoS people?

He keeps contradicting himself - Mariyta's reaction to the daykill is scummy, but it's legitimate for town not to want to die?

Misrep. A townsperson, in general, has every right to get pissed at being killed. This does not mean that I thought Mariyta's reaction was town when I voted her.

He disagrees with fitz's push on LMP, votes LMP anyway, and says he has his own reason for it but doesn't ever describe it?

First, I've never voted for LMP this entire game, so I'm going to assume you mean the FoS. Second, the reason for the FoS was included in the paragraph directly following the FoS. Admittedly, the FoS coud have been put in the same line as the explanation to make it clearer, but it should not have been that hard to see my FoS, see some suspicion about the person I just FoSed expressed in the next paragraph, and conclude that the aforementioned suspicion is why I FoSed that person.

Quick reversals - he FOS's LMP, but then suddenly LMP is town as town can be

LMP offered a satisfactory explanation for the reason I FoSed him, and my ISO read of him found him town. How is this a quick reversal?

I strongly suspect that there is a connection between LMP and Oop.

Your point?

The previously mentioned points.

Elaborate.

The overly-long and unnecessary wallposts that make it look like he's contributing a lot (see the objection! post).

Well, since I've only had two posts (to my recollection) that have actually been accused by anyone of being fake content posts, let's just take a look at them, shall we?

#1: The Vote-Count Quote post.

• The only content in the post is my FoS of you. The rest of it is a mass-quoting of VCs to emphatically point out the excess comma that the mod left in the vote count (decidedly
  not
  content). Frankly, I'm surprised that you consider a mass-quoting of VCs an actual attempt at making content, fake or not.

#2: The Objection post.

• This is a content post in every way imaginable. The only reason you claim to have a problem with it is because I decided to include pretty pictures to help reinforce my points. Let's have a look at the same post, minus the graphics.
  
  Spoiler: Objection Post

  Activate:

  
  

  PHOENIX WRIGHT MODE!!!

  
  

  OK...still a bit behind on reads but one person has jumped out at me (aside from the person I am voting) and that is LynchMePls. He has not posted very much content and the content he has posted has IMO not been consistent or well supported.

  At the very least LMP's content is superior to yours, if not several other players as well. I mean, if you're after lack of content and you aren't looking at yourself, Enigma's a very good way for you to go. LMP? Nuh uh.
  

  In post 118 LMP votes CoA for bypassing his (CoA's) ‘pretty good suspicions’ towards me and infers suspicions himself towards me despite not mentioning me at any other point in the game to this point and without any reasoning. BTW....the ‘pretty good suspicions’ CoA expressed towards me consisted of:

  @havingfits: obv random is weird. why try so hard to make a random vote? Looks like trying too hard to blend in.

  So LMP agrees with CoA’s comments on me and also agrees with CoA that smarg is suspicious...yet votes him for picking an smarg vote over me.

  This was LMP's first post since you made your entrance into the thread, so of course he hadn't mentioned you, yet. And it's very clear that LMP voted CityofAss for giving better reason to vote for you than smarg, yet voting smarg. Not even worth mentioning in the police report.
  

  Then in the next post (119) LMP FoS’s smargaret (who he just voted CoA for voting for) on the basis that her scumhunting was just right. WTF?
  Then lumps all three of us in a scumpool. While I do not doubt there could be scum in any grouping of three players...LMP is not giving any solid reasoning IMO.

  The FoS was for smarg having just the right amount of

  fake

  scumhunting. And LMP has given better reasons for all of his votes than you have, so I'd be careful about calling the kettle black.
  

  Post 147 - LMP piles on a bit with a QFT on some post 121 (my wallpost) bashing. Still no reasoning for suspecting me.

  He's already agreed with CoA's earlier statement regarding you, and here he's just agreed with my sentiments about your wallpost. It's fairly obvious why he suspects you.
  

  Post 154 - Although his LMP’s vote is still on CoA he points out that “we can’t go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today.”

  The vote clearly stayed on there to incite CoA to respond to his questions. It's a perfectly valid way to use a vote.
  

  When CoA asks why LMP still has a vote on him LMP responds with “You still hadn't addressed my points, and I didn't want you to lurk them away.” So LMP is not voting CoA for scummy actions but for not addressing LMP’s points against CoA...which at this point CoA had addressed and has since elaborated on.

  LMP was still applying pressure to CoA, and thus it's perfectly acceptable for his vote to remain where it was.
  
  

  Verdict: LynchMePls is found Not Guilty! He's as town as town can be!

  
  
  

  Deactivating Phoenix Wright Mode...

  As you can see, this is still a perfectly valid content post. Inclusion of pictures =/= negation of content.

[Oopidstay]

Since no one else seems to have the balls to stand up to fate, I guess I shouldn't count on a lynch, but that's not my fault.

Maybe you should also keep in mind that not everyone views Fate as scum at this moment in time.

...admittedly, that case was the product of a quick skim of the iso because I've had a nagging feeling of unease about his posts, and I was looking for what was causing it after Fate asked me for a case.

[sarcasm]Oh snap, disclaimer tags! Guess we shouldn't hold you accountable for that terribad case of yours, then...[/sarcasm]

[Oopidstay]

Overall towntells

outweigh the scumtells fate recently pointed out.

What towntells?

I'm not real keen on Mariyta's smarg ambivalence and her lurker vote, but I'll wait for her to finish her catch-up* before formulating conclusions.


*Unless she takes her sweet time in getting it done.

Most likely will have limited access this week due to finals stuff.

[Oopidstay]

It seems a lot like sheeping when you quote Fate's post and then vote. As for the Fitz thing, if you're pushing his lynch, why has your vote been all over the place today? I didn't address it when I made the case because the back and forth is confusing and I wanted to wait until daytime to look closer at it, and I thought it was better to get something out fast than pretty.

Well, then you didn't read the thread, did you? My hand-of-suspicion post on you made it very clear that the only reason I wasn't voting you was because I wanted Zed dead. Fate talked me out of lynching Zed, at least for today, so that freed my vote up to move onto you.

Also, my vote was on fitz for nine days. It has been three days since I moved my vote off of fitz. As for why my vote is not on fitz now, it's because I've found someone much scummier than him to vote for (namely, you).

It's the repeated FOSing that looks like testing the waters more than the FOSing then voting.

FoSing is another way of expressing suspicion. Just because one uses it does not mean one is "testing the waters".

Nope. You're trying to look town by talking about pro-town mafia theory - and then you're not applying it to the game, as far as I can see.

Nope. You're trying to conjure a scumpoint out of thin air, and are failing miserably. My previous explanation is perfectly valid.

Then what did you dislike about fitz's push on LMP?

Wow...I guess all I can say to this is "read the fucking thread". It should be very obvious where I stated the reasons for disliking fitz's push on LMP (hint: I devoted an entire fucking post to detailing it), so I'm gonna let you go find it yourself.

I don't see how someone can go from worthy of an FOS to obvtown in that timeframe, short of a clear investigation - and we haven't had any such thing show up yet.

Because LMP wasn't that strong of a scum read to me at the time. I used the FoS to attract his attention to something I found peculiar, he gave me a good response to it, and everything else I've seen from LMP makes him town.

I have a null-scum read on LMP, I think you and LMP are the same alignment and confirmed to each other based on your interactions, so the read on LMP makes me more inclined to think you're scum. It's also something to note for later should one of you flip/be cleared/be confirmed scum.

Buddying tells are worthless without a flip.

The points I made in the post in which I voted you. Your comments about the vig sounded like rolefishing, I suspect there was scum on the Zdenek wagon based on how quickly it grew, and I'd had a gut scum feeling about you.

Oh, so you mean your blatant sheeping of Fate's terribad vig-rolefishing allegation,

after

I'd pointed out how terribad the allegation was? That's rich. And where'd you get that gut feeling from, considering you had to quickly throw an ISO together when called upon for a case?

I'm just getting a general feel from you of trying to look town. No single one of these points is strong enough to warrant a vote, but they're all there together ... you feel very suspicious to me.

Excuse me for not believing you...

My town game, for those of you who aren't just trying to get a mislynch on me. I don't have a scum game, so you'll just have to deal. (Side note: future meta argument is

lame

...)

DP, LMP is not scum. Get him off your scumlist.

I love fitz's stance on smarg. "I haven't really paid attention to smarg/case on smarg, but I'm inclined to think she's town; her flip would be helpful, though." Classic. I also love how he's turning the three most pro-town players in this game into a scumteam because they share common goals.

[Oopidstay]

DP, LMP is not scum, okay? Now cut that shit out.

You too, Zed. You aren't extending your life expectancy with an LMP push, if you know what I mean...

Personally, I think both fitz and smarg need to swing ASAP. It doesn't really matter which one goes first, so I'll support whichever of those two wagons is bigger.

[Oopidstay]

Personally, I think both Oopid and LMP need to swing ASAP. It doesn't really matter which one goes first, so I'll support whichever of those two wagons is bigger.

So you're just going to be useless then, huh? Because neither of those lynches are happening.

[Oopidstay]

My bad, I forgot you were the only person allowed to give an opinion.

But seriously, you have no reason to feel safe unless you have a built in support system...if you know what I mean. To say I am targetting the three most pro-town players in this game is a ridiculous assertion...the part about you being the three most pro-town players that is. You and LMP need to get over yourselves. One or both of you are scum and the way you are feeding off/following each other is pathetic. You could be right on some of your reads but from my perspective you are both without a clue re: me so I can't help but be underwhelmed with your scum hunting skills. And your cases on people are crap which feeds my suspicion towards the two of you. You are each definitely better candidates for a lynch than myself or Zd and smarg IMO.

I lol'd.

[Oopidstay]

My bad, I forgot you were the only person allowed to give an opinion.

But seriously, you have no reason to feel safe unless you have a built in support system...if you know what I mean. To say I am targetting the three most pro-town players in this game is a ridiculous assertion...the part about you being the three most pro-town players that is. You and LMP need to get over yourselves. One or both of you are scum and the way you are feeding off/following each other is pathetic. You could be right on some of your reads but from my perspective you are both without a clue re: me so I can't help but be underwhelmed with your scum hunting skills. And your cases on people are crap which feeds my suspicion towards the two of you. You are each definitely better candidates for a lynch than myself or Zd and smarg IMO.

I fixed my post and lol'd.

[Oopidstay]

Enigma, it's not flavor=alignment speculation, it's flavor=role speculation. Based on the only other character information I have, I believe flavor and role do go together.

Which proves nothing about Zed's alignment. Do you still think Zed is scum?

The reason I mentioned your name was people were saying I was scum for lurking. I pointed out that there were three other players who had been lurking worse than me, and unless they thought there were four scum in a game this size, lurking might not be the best reason the vote.

Scumlurking isn't the only reason you've got votes, FYI.

Because I'm not seeing a whole lot in the way of scumhunting there.

*cough* *cough*

That said, I would like to see some suspects out of Enigma.

[Oopidstay]

Oop, where did I say I thought Z was scum?

Oops, my mistake. Actually, looking back, I can't really see what your stance is on him. Clarify, please, and reasons why. Additionally, since you indicated that you believe Zed's role, and not his alignment, what exactly was the point of saying you believe his role?

Also, are you still clinging to your "case" on me, and if so, why haven't you tried to refute my latest rebuttal?

Oh, and fitz? Since you're arguing that I've been coming up with nothing but crap cases, I want you to show us exactly why you claim my cases are crap.

All

the cases I've made, not just the one on you. Don't argue that it's not your job; you're the one who made the allegation, so the burden's on you to prove it.

[Oopidstay]

Um, not to imply that you aren't doing a fine job, Mr. Moderator, but I do believe I'm voting for smargaret, not Zdenek. Also, you have LMP as a double voter.

@ Fitz: No. If you thought my cases were crap, then surely you had a good idea of what they consisted of, and shouldn't need my help to find the main points for them. Otherwise, how would you know my cases were crap?

[Oopidstay]

So, in other words, my cases on Zed and smarg are crap because you don't suspect them and I do? And you haven't even bothered to actually

look

at my cases on either of them to see whether or not your statement is actually valid? You make me laugh, fitz, you really do. If you can't be bothered to actually look up the data to support your accusations, I most certainly am not going to go do it for you.

Unvote: smargaret. Vote: havingfitz

[Oopidstay]

Oh, and by the way, you still haven't addressed the things in my Post #235 that I wanted you to address.

[Oopidstay]

@ Fitz (465): I was giving you the chance to justify your opinion, instead of leaving it as another crap accusation that has no backing behind it.

You

are the one who claims that all my cases are crap, so it is

your

responsibility to prove your claims. I am under no obligation whatsoever to provide you with a summary of points for my cases, since it is your job, as the accuser, to do that research yourself.

If you addressed #235, then I missed it. What was the post number? (Yes, I'm probably inviting a spiteful "look it up yourself" retort, but whatever.)

As for your most recent "point" against me, what I said is the same thing other people have said of you

after

my comment, but using their own words. The only thing I'm guilty of is lack of originality in word choice, but I'm sure people got the point anyway. (Btw, that comment wasn't a copy-paste job.)

@ Fitz (467): Then go ahead and provide your reasoning. You don't need to wait for me to make a fool of yourself.

True, I don't know for sure that LMP is town. What I

do

know is that at this moment he's the second towniest person in the game (the most town person being me, obviously) and that his reads are pretty close to mine. I don't need to have 100% certainty of his townhood to support him against all the shit accusations being thrown at him. Just because one person vocally supports another person doesn't mean they're scumbuddies. Or are you just afraid of the town power bloc that's forming before your eyes?

Why is smarg a town read? Do you agree with her case on me, and why? What about Zed? Why's he a town read?

@ Fate: I'm not done with smarg. Fitz just asked me to vote for him so I obliged.

Unvote: havingfitz. Vote: smargaret.

@ LMP: As much as I'd love to lynch fitz, smarg is probably the better play for today, so please come back to the smarg wagon. We can deal with fitz tomorrow. /inb4chainlynchaccusation

@ DP: The LMP wagon isn't going to take off. Please join the smarg wagon.

@ Mariyta: Enigma hasn't done anything worth placing him over fitz or smarg. Please join the smarg wagon.

[Oopidstay]

Everyone who is not voting 1 of smarg, fitz, Zd is absolutely doing it wrong. Maryita x2, as per the VC isn't voting at all.

@Fate, Oopid, Enigma, Maryita, DDD, AH: Alliance? I propose we all do a

HOS:

on one of fitz, smarg, Zd. Then, whichever one gets the most votes, we all agree to vote them. Are you in?

I'll start:

HOS: fitz

.

I'm game.

HoS: Smarg

[Oopidstay]

@ Mod: You still have LMP as a double voter. His vote should be on fitz.

[Oopidstay]

SMARGARET!

Additionally, since you indicated that you believe Zed's role, and not his alignment, what exactly was the point of saying you believe his role?

Also, are you still clinging to your "case" on me, and if so, why haven't you tried to refute my latest rebuttal?

I still require answers to those questions.

and [smarg's] case on Oop makes sense.

Explain yourself. This is not only a minority opinion, but a very bad minority opinion. Also, out of two people you've previously voted for and a non-conclusive, why would you vote for the non-conclusive (since I don't recall the other two making your townlist)?

I did look for your cases on Zd and smarg and could not find them. Why do/did you find Zd and smarg scummy and where is your case on them. Don't even provide the bullet points. Just give a post number. Why were you voting either of them? Absence of a stated case is a crap case. There. I did the research.

Zed: Quickly jumping to the softclaim when the pressure at the time did not warrant one, bad reasoning for town reads (you and smarg being the prime examples), and backtracking in #324.

Smarg: The vote was triggered by her blatant sheeping of Fate on his terribad vote on me for "rolefishing",

after

I pointed out how terribad that reasoning was. She's earned various FoSes from me before that vote for various reasons. After her shitty vote, she threw together an equally shitty "case" on me at Fate's behest which just reeks of scum opportunism.

---> 257.

Oh, oops. I meant my #259.

LMP stuff

LMP offered a satisfactory explanation for the reason I FoSed him, and my ISO read of him found him town.

Excuse me...you cut three portions of a post I made, verbatim, and paste them into a single quoted sentence with a completely different interpretation IMO. That is the perfect example of a copycut-paste job and you are full of shit if you are representing it as anything other than a misrep.

You should be a comedian, fitz. You really know how to make me laugh!

To put things more tangibly, you quite clearly said that you had a town read on someone you weren't paying much attention to (someone who happens to be a very popular scum candidate), and on top of that, that lynching said town read would be "helpful" for the town. It's all there for people to see. Oh sure, you're being misrepresented, all right. But I'm not the one who's doing it.

BTW...you keep making it look like you are part of some overwhelming town movement and you and LMP are untouchable....when in fact you and LMP have been among the leading wagons right behind smarg for much of the 2-3 pages

Well, given that the wagons on LMP and me are mostly helmed by people that I (and he) think are scum and that the cases on both of us are pure bullshit, I'm not all that concerned. If you've been paying attention to the entirety of the public opinion (meaning everyone, not just you and the people voting with you), we aren't going to be fitted for a noose anytime soon.

I do not recall her case on you. Which post?

I would say RTFT, but I'm getting tired of constantly telling people that. It's one of the later posts on Page 15 (can't give exact post number because I'm sick as fuck of trying to get MS to correctly load the damn page). As for Zed, if you're going to put him squarely in the town camp, you should have more reasons than "gut". (See my treatment of LMP if you want an example.)

Why do people suspect Fitz? I think you're arguing back and forth over some minor interpretations and the rest has become confirmation bias.

Uh, no. Fitz's cases are as crappy as smarg's, except with more words. How closely did you look at him?

[Oopidstay]

Where is your most recent rebuttal?

Jesus H. Christ, are you guys

trying

to drive me insane by not reading the goddamn fucking thread... /extremely pissed-off rant

Post #413. Seriously, how the fuck did you miss it? (If you legitimately missed it.)

[Oopidstay]

It goes without saying that I'm not going to read the thread simply to piss oopid off. Speaking of which, why does it matter how smargaret missed your rebuttal if she legitimately did?

Vote: Zdenek

Antihero and Fate <3

Please note the sarcasm tags around "if you legitimately missed it".

Also, this hasn't been the first time someone has asked me for something that should be pretty fucking easy to find with a cursory look through the thread (and it's not even smarg's first offense in this category), so I'm a little pissed off that it keeps happening. Savvy?

[Oopidstay]

This is not only a minority opinion, but a very bad minority opinion. Also, out of two people you've previously voted for and a non-conclusive, why would you vote for the non-conclusive (since I don't recall the other two making your townlist)?

Says you. And you clearly are not paying attention. I've determined that fitz is likely town, I believe Z's claim, and now after ISOing smarg, I think she's likely town. So I would not pick any of the three. As for the case on you, I still need to ISO you to determine how vote-worthy you are. I'd much prefer to stick with Enigma until then. Don't get your panties in a bunch just yet.

Since I guess you missed the implied question...

[Smargaret's] case on Oop makes sense.

Why does her case make sense to you?

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP

I've determined that fitz is likely town, I believe Z's claim

Mind showing me a post that outright said fitz was likely town, because that wasn't the sense I got from your posts concerning him (at best, I thought you had a more neutral read on him). Also, Zed's claim has nothing to do with his alignment.

[Oopidstay]

As for smarg's case on you, her analysis of your vote hopping, the contradictions, and quick reversals are all things that make me go hmmm...

/facepalms

Please go and read her case + follow-up and my rebuttals to them so you can see how ridiculous smarg's case really is. (I'll make it easy; the relevant posts are #372, #377, #395, and #413.)

In other news, smarg has realized that she has no real case on me, but there's voters on my wagon so she's going to keep pushing it anyway. Can we lynch her now, please?

[Oopidstay]

^^^reads as an OMGUSy scumvote.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: I think everyone in the alliance has HoS'ed now, with the count standing at 1 fitz, 3 smarg, 3 Zed. Looks like we need a tie breaker.

All right, everyone in the alliance, let's

only

concentrate on Zed and smarg, since they're tied. With an uneven number of people, this should break the deadlock. I'll start.

HoS: smarg

HoS Count

smarg: 1 (Oopidstay)

Preview Edit: Well, the fact that she suddenly goes along with the alliance right after Zed votes for her is a bit suspect.

[Oopidstay]

Mod: Fitz's vote is on smargaret.

And with DDD's vote, we have a lynch.

[Oopidstay]

Thanks, smarg.

I'd rather Mariyta be shot, although I'm curious to see what fitz is going to do if smarg kills me and I flip town...

In the event that smarg shoots me, Mariyta is becoming more of a scum read, I'm questioning whether fitz is scum or just crazy townie, Antihero slot needs a

lot

more looking into, and I'm no longer certain of a Zed scumread.

[Oopidstay]

Damn...I'm gonna have to rethink everything, with two of my suspects flipping town. Plus I'm starting to feel that fitz is pushing crap cases because he's playing poorly and not because he's scum.

Rereads are going to be required, which won't happen for awhile due to still being on vacation.

Mod: V/LA until after New Year's.

Noted.

I might find time to post before then, but don't count on it.

[Oopidstay]

'K, I'm back. Will read up and post ASAP.

[Oopidstay]

Oh, and not on topic, but I promised to do this earlier...

Oopidstay holds Mariyta's limp corpse in his arms and weeps profusely, his tears cascading onto her blood-stained dress. He tenderly brushes a lock of hair away from her closed eyes.

"OH GOD, WHY???" he cries. "WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY??? WHY COULDN'T SHE HAVE BEEN TOWN, LORD??? Oh, Mariyta, sweet Mariyta--"

A sorrowful sob cuts into his cry, and his head collapses onto her cold chest, unable to stem the trail of tears rolling out of his eyes...

...aaaaaaaand moving on!

[Oopidstay]

So as I was looking back at stuff, I've realized that Enigma's not posted at all since the 20th of December...

Oh Mod my God: Wouldst Thou favor Thy faithful servant and deliver unto this wayward soul a Holy Prod?

[Oopidstay]

Ok...as much as it really pains me to do this, I have to move fitz off the "needs to die pronto" list and onto the "playing bad rather than scummy" one. As horrible as his cases have been, he's stuck with them when it would have been more advantageous for scum to backpedal and move on, especially since he's been hunting less "obvious" noose candidates such as LMP and myself. I'm not willing to solidly peg him "town" yet, but I'm willing to wait and see how things play out with him.

As for Zed, he's still scum and needs to die.

Vote: Zdenek

Enigma also needs to burn, but Zed preferably goes first. Also not feeling that comfortable with Nacho, but it may just be because he's not had enough time to do decent shit yet, so I'm willing to wait and see. As for the Anti/Lat slot, a looksie reveals things to not be as bad as I thought they were, so I'll let it be.

[Oopidstay]

@all. What is the case on Zdenek again? Is his claim being dismissed? It looked like Fate had evidence re: Zdenek (when he [Fate] implied a potential claim as well). If there is definitive proof Zdenek is scum why not provide it?

Lol.

If Zed flips scum then fitz is a scumbuddy.

[Oopidstay]

@ Nacho:
- You

do

realize that I was the instigator of the fitz wagon, right? I wasn't on the outside of the fight at all; I was right in the thick of it, waging war against fitz.
- Also, what is this Antihero wagon that you keep claiming I'm setting myself up to join?
- With regards to *not* sheeping, LMP and I were pretty much on the same page when we made our Zed votes. Would you feel better if I had made up something original so it wouldn't look like sheeping?
- As far as the "vote-hopping" goes, I made it very clear before then that I was willing to see either smarg or fitz hang, so why is it scummy that I'm willing to move my vote between the two of them?
- How is modifying a read based on reexamination a backtrack? I never denied that I once felt fitz was bonafide scum; I just had a different reaction to the things he's done after I took another look at them. Are you implying that changing my opinion is scummy?
- fitz's treatment of Zed near the end of Day 2 looked like hardcore buddying to me, so if Zed had flipped scum, fitz would've gone back up on my scumlist. That wasn't what happened, though.

I'm still on the "wait-and-see" deal with fitz. Nacho's recent case on me makes me raise an eyebrow, so it'll be interesting to see how he reinforces his opinion. I'm getting a bad feeling about Fate and DDD, and I owe LMP another look. I'm leery of Enigma lurkervoting smarg back on Day 1, but since he's being replaced, not much to do with the slot until a replacement is found. DP is neutral for now, at least until I look at him again.

Oh, and I object to Fate not claiming if the rest of us are massclaiming.

[Oopidstay]

Actually, wait. Why are we massclaiming? Setup speculation just got us a mislynch yesterday.

[Oopidstay]

What's the case for mescum, Fate? And you aren't allowed to sheep Nacho's case.

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: I can agree with no lynch. Why are we massclaiming?

[Oopidstay]

As for a case on you: you said you weren't ok with me not claiming today. Ergo: You are scum.

Oh, so you don't have to stick with a claim while everyone else does? That's bullshit.

Also, your case sucks.

Ok, I see the logic behind mc'ing.

[Oopidstay]

What part of: Theres a missing kill N1. I've already softclaimed I know theres a doctor that targeted me that night

DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

The part that explains how you claiming that knowledge

isn't

youscum fakeclaiming shit to ride the powerrole train ride to victory. And even if there's a doc in the game, it still doesn't explain why you shouldn't be claiming.

[Oopidstay]

The only person other than the hypothetical doctor who thinks you're confirmed town is you. Do you honestly expect me to simply take your word for it and believe you? Just because I haven't brought a case against you doesn't mean I have to trust you.

Besides, you already seem to be implying that you aren't the doc, so how is you claiming going to further increase the scum's chance's of hitting the hypothetical doc?

[Oopidstay]

another explanation for the nokill N1

You gambitted and fakeclaimed knowledge that a doc protected you, since if it worked you wouldn't likely get much resistance from the town.

If you have already implied that you aren't the doc, you have already given the mafia one less person to consider in their doc-hunt.

Therefore

, withholding your claim on account of that is pointless.

On a side note, I'm not seeing why the Lat kill could be scum doc-hunting. Elaborate?

[Oopidstay]

a massclaim would incriminate me as lying about being doc protected cause something else would explain the nokill N1.

Which would be a damn good reason to try and avoid claiming, eh? As for why you'd do it: like I said earlier, ride the PR train to victory.

How important is it that scum don't find out your role, exactly? If the point of massclaim is to lock scum in, you not claiming defeats that purpose, and I don't trust you enough to accept your claim as confirmed town.

A piece of advice, though, if you're town: get your scumdar fixed. Before it's too late.

[Oopidstay]

Knowing that you were protected by a doc does not mean you are confirmed town. Having a role that knows you were protected by a doc does not mean you are confirmed town. You insisting these things make you confirmed town does not mean you are confirmed town. Even if you are actually the PR you are softclaiming to be, it doesn't mean you are a town PR.

"Ride the PR train to victory": scum imply PR, town is hesitant to lynch scum because of said PR softclaim, scum play on that sentiment to avoid being lynched. Rather simple concept, really. Of course, being forced to actually claim wouldn't be very helpful in this regard, so

you would have a strong motivation to avoid claiming if at all possible

. Seriously, are you so arrogant that you can't fathom the idea that any town player would question your motives?

[Oopidstay]

DP, why did you hide behind me the first night, and then chose not to hide the second night?

I'm reserving judgment on the scumminess (or lack thereof) of DP's claim until I've heard more, since as it stands right now, it doesn't definitively point one direction or the other. /inb4defendingscumbuddyaccusation

LMP, why am I likely scum in your eyes?

Since the popcorn seems to have stalled, I'll go next.

Claim: Father Anthony Forthill, Vanilla Townie

DDD claims next. (I'd much rather it be you, Fate, but in the interests of not stalling the process I'll wait until the end of the line to shove them coals under your ass.)

[Oopidstay]

@ LMP: ...and that's it? How does my treatment of you make me scum? How does PoE make me scum? Why haven't you brought this up until now?

DP, why are you ignoring Fate's #737? I personally didn't think it was scummy, but you not addressing it is making me think twice.

[Oopidstay]

@ LMP: Why does calling you town make me scummy? Why does countering bad cases against you make me scummy? Why does agreeing with your reasoning against Zed and voting him partly because of it make me scummy? Why did you wait until Day 3 to mention that said behavior makes me look scummy? How does process of elimination make me scum versus other candidates?

@ fitz: Out of curiosity, what's your stance on me today?

[Oopidstay]

Well, with massclaim stalled by the empty slot, I will once again

demand

request that Fate claim. I'm also even more distrusting of Fate's claim with no one else but the lurker slot to claim and no sign of a doc. Unless the doc followed Fate's directive and

is

lying about his role.

I also think no lynch after all-claim is still the best play for today.

DDD, mind throwing in the flavor bits for your claim, plz?

LMP, no reply to my queries?

So I've been waiting to see Nacho try and counter my rebuttal to his case, only to realize that he's already posted with no response to the rebuttal. Why's that, Nacho?

[Oopidstay]

Not trusting you doesn't make me an incompetent player, Fate. Or scum.

Also, claiming your role does NOT further endanger the hypothetical doc, as you've already implied you aren't it.

Being

protected by a doc, in and of itself, does not make you town. We've been through this already.

So pretty please, with sugar on top, claim your fuckin' role (to paraphrase a wise man's words).

[Oopidstay]

*caps Fate in the ass*

ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT???

[Oopidstay]

EBWOP: Also, hold on the no-lynch until Enigma slot is replaced so Button gets more time and we don't have to deal with an empty slot on D4.

[Oopidstay]

So I missed this before.

LMP, no reply to my queries?

Pretty much said all I've got to say on this matter.

I asked those questions for a reason. Please answer them.

Oopid, why do you think that scum-Fate would give a shit about claiming now or later?

Because fakeclaims are easier to pick apart when they're in the open instead of being implied, and given what he's already mentioned, Fate would most definitely need to have an interesting role to back his story up.

DP

once again

ignoring Fate's #737 is really starting to make me think he's bullshitting us with that claim...

I'd like to hold on voting no-lynch until the town decides whether or not Fate should claim today.

[Oopidstay]

Fate, STFU and claim.

[Oopidstay]

OH GOD THE MADNESS IT IS RISING

[Oopidstay]

If I had a dayvig, you would most definitely be my target.

Since there's no point arguing with a stubborn ass,

Vote: No Lynch

.

[Oopidstay]

Um, fitz, Zed was one-shot bulletproof, not one-shot vig.

I do think the setup thus presented makes it unlikely that all the claimed PRs are town.

[Oopidstay]

Unvote: No Lynch

Sweet Lord, how the money rolls in!

Also, I'm leaning town on DP. I agree with him that the post Fate's harping on wasn't a real indication of suspicion, and his claim is more believable than Fate's softclaim (since I don't think his claim and the implications of Fate's softclaim can coexist in this setup).

[Oopidstay]

Vote: NachoDocta

I'll give you that one, Fate. Nice work.

DP also loses that town lean of mine since Fate's role is now more believable. Plus, I still think there's too many claimed power roles for all of them to be town.

[Oopidstay]

Hmm...

If

DP is somehow actually a hider, how about we make him hide behind Fate tonight and let the scum kill him for us (since they pretty much have to kill Fate tonight)? Either it gets him out of our suspect pool, or he ignores town and we lynch him. Thoughts?

[Oopidstay]

I'm still skeptical but I haven't worked through all the possible permutations in my brain yet but given all the claims I don't think a no lynch can hurt us and would either confirm scum for us or completely break the game open.

Holy California lulu dogs, Batman! You actually had the gall to say this

after

Nachoscum confirmed himself scum with a self-vote? Methinks we've found tomorrow's lynch, folks!

DP, the idea is to kill you without wasting a lynch on you. This will clear our suspect pool of one more person and make it easier for the town to figure out who the rest of the scumbag(s) are. So if you're town, the best way you can help us is by dying tonight; thus, hide behind Fate if Nacho flips roleblocker, and hide behind a claimed VT (other than me, obviously) if Nacho isn't a roleblocker.

(Also no way in hell does Spyrex instakill his buddy in probable Mylo, not when there hardly any suspicion of Nacho in the first place. That's way more showboating than I'm capable of believing.)

Fate, I'd love to lynch DP if he's alive tomorrow, but I need to be talked out of DDD-scum first because I think that's more of a sure bet.

[Oopidstay]

Um Fate Nacho only has four votes if I counted correctly. We need another one.

*this is a hint to all the non-Nacho voters in the house*

[Oopidstay]

Ok I guess DP's not that far below DDD anyway, so I'll play along this time.

DP-survival policy lynch for Day 4 is on!

[Oopidstay]

Dude if town wins Spyrex totally gets the cred for it.

You get the assist, though.

[Oopidstay]

Vote: DavidParker

[Oopidstay]

Flavor DDD?

Unvote DP

Until I figure out which of you two I feel like voting for.

[Oopidstay]

All right, DP, hide behind Spyrex tonight, because come tomorrow you will be dead come hell or high water.

Vote: Triple D

[Oopidstay]

Unvote

Goddammit I'm second guessing myself again. I have this really bad feeling that one of DDD and DP is actually innocent. Guess I'll take a cue from fitz and wait to see what LMP says about things...

[Oopidstay]

Vote: Oopidstay

Because I'm not entirely sure the rules actually count a full unvote.

[Oopidstay]

@ fitz: The entire idea of having DP hide behind Fate was to get him nightkilled. One less person for us to suspect the next day.

[Oopidstay]

Well fuck here goes nothing.

Vote: DDD

[Oopidstay]

Grr...

While I'm extremely leery about DP continually claiming to be RBed, it is true that technically there has been no straight-up roleblocker flip. The ability would fit nicely under seductress, but again, no definitive way to prove it.

I'll refrain from voting for now. When I get more time I'll go back over the thread to see what I can dig up on the other two candidates.

[Oopidstay]

Hmm...yeah, the fitz vote looked very much like a failed quickhammer. Alcohol excuse is rather "meh", too.

Also, DDD's behavior towards DP yesterday is making me think twice about lynching DP.

@ LMP: Yes, the Seductress strongly hints at roleblocker. I'm just saying we can't definitively prove it.

[Oopidstay]

Sorry, life is trying to kidnap me.

There's an issue I'm seeing with DP-scum: if he's fakeclaiming hider,

why bother claiming you didn't hide on some nights?

It seems more sensible that if one's going to go with a hider claim, then one should always claim a hide each night. It's less suspicious that way. On the other hand, the careless manner with which he threw up "other nights" is really bothering me, so maybe he was just scum trying to be clever. Going over his ISO hasn't really made me feel that much more suspicious about him. Some of his gaffes I could honestly see coming from a town perspective (such as the supposed suspicion of me on Day 2; his explanation fit with how I saw it).

I'll look LMP and fitz up when I have more time.

[Oopidstay]

Yeah, sorry about not being around much on the last day. Looks like things got done without me, though.

@ Button: Lots of interesting abilities. 1-shot BP + NK Immune Bodyguard + Super-Vengeful seems a bit OP by itself, though. The Predator's ability was kinda useless (like DP said), and although scum had kills that could either counter the Super-Vengeful or the Bodyguard, it would need to actually use the right kill on the right person for that to be effective. The game was fun to play overall, though, even if rl got hold of me later on.

@ Fitz: Well, at least my reread of you was right about you not being scum. You did overreact quite a bit to what I said on Day 1. It helps sometimes to just step back and look at things from a less-tunneled point of view (that's what got me off of you).

@ Smarg: Seriously...what the hell was with that awful case on me? Not trying to be mean, here, but there was enough bad reasoning in that case to lynch a bloated hippo. Maybe be more careful before throwing out your accusations next time?

@ Mariyta: I cried over your body. Satisfied?

@ Fate: You got lucky that Spyrex replaced in and forced the Nachoclaim, because otherwise this would've been a very different game. That said, nice job confirming Nachoscum.

@ Spyrex: You need an award or something, because you pretty much singlehandedly saved the town win.

Thanks for the fun, guys.