Mini 1087 - The Dresden Files Game Over!

[Mariyta]

As the object of crap flings, I would guess fitz is town.

The "object" of crap flings? Town? Please explain this, as I vehemently disagree with both of those stances.

^^This.

[Antihero]

As the object of crap flings, I would guess fitz is town.

The "object" of crap flings? Town? Please explain this, as I vehemently disagree with both of those stances.

"Fling" should have been singular, as I was referring to Zdenek alone.

My hypothesis of Zdenek scum taking a potshot at fitz, who looks like a viable wagon target, would suggest fitztown to me.

[Oopidstay]

As the object of crap flings, I would guess fitz is town.

The "object" of crap flings? Town? Please explain this, as I vehemently disagree with both of those stances.

"Fling" should have been singular, as I was referring to Zdenek alone.

My hypothesis of Zdenek scum taking a potshot at fitz, who looks like a viable wagon target, would suggest fitztown to me.

So what do you think about fitz's actual posts, which multiple people consider scummy enough to vote on? How does one person appearing to take a potshot at fitz suddenly invalidate the other concerns other people have with fitz?

FoS: Antihero

, because this is really starting to smell like bullshit to me...

[Antihero]

So what do you think about fitz's actual posts, which multiple people consider scummy enough to vote on? How does one person appearing to take a potshot at fitz suddenly invalidate the other concerns other people have with fitz?

Well, I'm not "other people." You just FoSing because I disagree with you?

Fitz's initial passiveness is disconcerting, but I don't think fitz is as scummy as you or Mari seem to think.

FoS: Antihero, because this is really starting to smell like bullshit to me...

Don't let stupid emotions cloud your judgement. I know it's a little disappointing when someone doesn't agree with your scumreads, but really, you're not giving a good reason why this is faked.

What about you, hyena? Read Zdenek's ISO and see if you agree with my assessment of Z's play so far (won't take you long), please?

[Oopidstay]

Fitz's initial passiveness is disconcerting, but I don't think fitz is as scummy as you or Mari seem to think.

So what is your opinion on Post #121, then? (Fitz's giant wall post.)

Don't let stupid emotions cloud your judgement. I know it's a little disappointing when someone doesn't agree with your scumreads, but really, you're not giving a good reason why this is faked.

So I shouldn't be concerned that you have a read on fitz that is diametrically opposed to mine, and runs counter to what I've seen other people express as well (hint: Mariyta is not the only person other than me who's shown displeasure with fitz)? From my point of view, you're naming my top suspect town, and haven't given a single good reason to convince me why.

What about you, hyena? Read Zdenek's ISO and see if you agree with my assessment of Z's play so far (won't take you long), please?

While he's had fewer sentences than fitz in this game, Zdenek has had better content,

by far

. Right now, in my mind, there's no way fitz is town over Zed.

[Antihero]

So what is your opinion on Post #121, then? (Fitz's giant wall post.)

Meh, a bunch of noise and not very well supported opinions.
That could be a sign that fitz is acting like a fool, though.

So I shouldn't be concerned that you have a read on fitz that is diametrically opposed to mine, and runs counter to what I've seen other people express as well (hint: Mariyta is not the only person other than me who's shown displeasure with fitz)? From my point of view, you're naming my top suspect town, and haven't given a single good reason to convince me why.

First off, I never "named" fitz town. (see: the word "guess") Hence, my read isn't "diametrically opposed" to yours.
Second off, not sharing reads isn't a scumtell.

While he's had fewer sentences than fitz in this game, Zdenek has had better content,

by far

. Right now, in my mind, there's no way fitz is town over Zed.

Zed has better what? Content? Where?

[Oopidstay]

Meh, a bunch of noise and not very well supported opinions.
That could be a sign that fitz is acting like a fool, though.

Why are you so willing to dismiss Fitz's play as foolish rather than scummy?

First off, I never "named" fitz town. (see: the word "guess") Hence, my read isn't "diametrically opposed" to yours.

Please. This is pointless nitpicking over terminology.

Zed has better what? Content? Where?

That same ISO you referred me to awhile ago. Less posts + less sentences =/= less content. Fitz, by contrast, has had

more posts

* and sentences, yet drastically less content. In fact, I'll go so far as to say he's posted

no

honest content to this date.

*(not true actually, upon checking)

[Antihero]

What the hell are you getting so bent out of shape about? Yeah, fitz's saying "OMG, look at this guy's reaction to obvfakedaykill, SCUMZ" is weaksauce, but his post suggests he's at least made an attempt (feeble as it may be) to read and find scum.

Z hasn't done anything but sprinkle some random questions in this thread while not really ruffling any feathers. How is

that

not scummy?

[havingfitz]

Need to catch up.

Other than my obv RV and OMGUS vote of which neither were serious. My 'wall post' was serious. Not sure what the cases are on me at the moment but if they are based on my emphatic RV or not commenting on DP's fake daykill they are reaching and most likely being pushed by scum. Oopidstay being the most obvious.

[Fate]

I'm here intentionally lurking btw, surprised Antihero hasn't called me out on it

[Zdenek]

Antihero, to characterize my questions as random, is a complete misrepresentation.

First of all, LMP's self-vote. I've seen scum caught day one for essentially their self-vote and subsequent reaction to questioning. I'm still definitely worried about LMP because of this early move. I'm all the more concerned because when he made the self-vote, we'd already had the fake vig kill so we were well on the way out of RVS. The fact that he didn't have a plan to determine scum reactions from town reactions makes me think that he was just reaction fishing which was unnecessary at that point in the game.

I've also seen scum nearly caught day one (lynched day two) for ignoring a day kill. Which is what you did and I was surprised that Maryita didn't call you on it, and I wanted to know why. If it wasn't for the fact that I find your play otherwise townish, I'd be a lot more concerned by it.

About DavidParker, after making a move like the fake vig kill, he's likely to be labelled as town by almost everyone, and I didn't want to just leave him alone after it.

As far as my questions to CityofAs are concerned, I'm still waiting for him to answer them, and they too are not random.

[TheButtonmen]

The "Dance my minions, dance!" Vote Count:

DavidParker (1): Smargare
Mariyta (1): Fate
CityofAs (2): Zdenek, LMP
Havinfitz (3): Oopidstay, Mariyta, DavidParker
Smargaret (2): Cityofbutts, Engima
Zdenek (1): DDD, Antihero
Oopidstay (1): HavingFitz

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

[Fate]

Well well what do we have here.

Smarg is still voting me after earlier justifying said vote as "bandwagoning to appease Fate with good town play" and now is not bwing?

Stylish finish to this post includes a BW vote by me:
VOTE: Smargaret

Also Anti, your hypocrisy tell is invalid because Mari was buddying up to me before I had even posted content, whereas I am "buddying" (id argue my relation to you isn't. buddying but that's another post idont have the motivation for.) With you after and only after having a valid town read on you.

[havingfitz]

OK...that’s a lot of flack for a wall post. It was just my thoughts on different events/posts in the game to that point. If any of you don’t like or agree with the comments feel free to do better.

On to the wallpost of my wallpost fallout (Part 1)....

If the game is on page 3 in 7 hours, you should have taken the time to at least read those pages before making a random vote. You didn't even try to form an opinion and had no idea what was happening in the game when you came in. Why would you even bother posting at that point?

I've already stated that I skimmed over the pages prior to my RV. Even looking back now the only thing that would have warranted a comment is DP's daykill. When I posted the game had been open only 32 posts and a few hours. That's still RV stage to me. You obviously have a different opinion.

As for the daykill, having played in several games with DP I realize it is common for him to do stupid things like claim PRs when he is VT. I tend to ignore him until I have more to work on with him because I don't think one scummy action (like some might say a fake daykill is) is enough from him. Additionally...you and smarg had already raised the question of whether it was real or not so what more deserved to be said?

Clearly there were some who hadn't posted at all. But you made an effort to post on w/o giving much of anything.

Since you are putting a lot of weight into that post daykill opinion....let's see some of the other's posts following DP's "Day-kill" in post 39.

1st post-39 post (#45) by Oopid accuses Mari of being on edge (for her response to the Day-kill).
1st post-39 post (#47) by Anti.....

no daykill comment.

1st post-39 post (#49) by smarg....comments on daykill.
1st post-39 post (#52) by LMP...

no daykill comment but he does self vote (~reaction fishing)

1st post-39 post (#60) by havingfitz...

no daykill comment. RV on Fate.

1st post-39 post (#92) by Enigma (~7 hrs later after my #60)...

no daykill comment and a RV on DP?

1st post-39 post (#93) by CoA...somewhat comments by agreeing w/ Oopid's view on Mari's daykill response.
1st post-39 post (#96) by Fate..

no daykill comment.

1st post-39 post (#99) by Zdenek comments on daykill and asks:

Maryita, why are you giving Oops a hard time for being blase about the fake day-kill, but ignoring the fact that Antihero ignored it?

to which Mari responds,

Because I know Antihero better than I know Oop. In fact, I don't know Oop at all.

So do I take this to mean if you 'knew me' better you would not be voting me? I thought mafia was a game of deduction and investigation...not a popularity club.

1st post-39 post (#105) by DDD makes no reference to daykill but by now I think the daykill 'event' had run it's course.

So WTF Mari....why the pass on Anti, LMP, Enigma, or Fate? Your reasons for suspecting me are extremely weak (based on ~2 posts?). I'm not even the first one to ignore the daykill. I'm 3rd on that list. While I don't have the familiarity of you that apparently you do of Anti I would hope after 4 years on this site your scumhunting skills would be more refined and take more into account than they appear to be in this instance.

Annnnnd this:

1)

he came in on page 3, didn't even bother to read (half of the posts to that point had been confirms, so it's not like it's a hard read), ...<snip>...

2)

Then he laughs off the concerns about his random vote at that stage in the game.

1) I stated I skimmed through it. Misrep.
2) So the fact I smiled at Antihero for using 'TIMIDITY ' to describe my RV is one of your voting factors? The old emoticon scumtell. Niiiiiice....... Almost a misrep but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on it. Still a reach IMO.

---

DP...the policy lynch comment was not a suggestion. Just an example of the contempt/disdain some people have for your playing style. You know that comment is true so no 'abuse' necessary.

I need to take a look at Oopid's response (and a few others) but this post is already long enough and I don't want to upset the wallpost police.

[Antihero]

Antihero, to characterize my questions as random, is a complete misrepresentation.

OK, then maybe we can see something productive from them?

Here we go:

First of all, LMP's self-vote. I've seen scum caught day one for essentially their self-vote and subsequent reaction to questioning. I'm still definitely worried about LMP because of this early move. I'm all the more concerned because when he made the self-vote, we'd already had the fake vig kill so we were well on the way out of RVS. The fact that he didn't have a plan to determine scum reactions from town reactions makes me think that he was just reaction fishing which was unnecessary at that point in the game.

What's reaction fishing? And what does that say about LMP's alignment?

I've also seen scum nearly caught day one (lynched day two) for ignoring a day kill. Which is what you did and I was surprised that Maryita didn't call you on it, and I wanted to know why. If it wasn't for the fact that I find your play otherwise townish, I'd be a lot more concerned by it.

What? I find this very hard to believe someone was "caught" for ignoring a fake daykill. Link if completed?

Have none of you played day vig before? Probably not. I got that role once and I consider myself extremely lucky to have gotten it. Absolutely nobody would waste a rare daykill shot like DP pretended to. It's not a scumtell to ignore the obviously fake daykill.

About DavidParker, after making a move like the fake vig kill, he's likely to be labelled as town by almost everyone, and I didn't want to just leave him alone after it.

How was anybody supposed to know this?

[Enigma]

V/LA till monday.

[Oopidstay]

DavidParker (1): Smargaret
Fate (1): smargaret

Oh hey, guys, we have a double voter.

Z hasn't done anything but sprinkle some random questions in this thread while not really ruffling any feathers. How is that not scummy?

Because his questions weren't random and he wasn't specifically

trying

to avoid ruffling feathers?

We're pretty much at an impasse regarding Fitz. I still don't get how you can justify Fitz's posting as an honest attempt to find scum, but there's no point in going for buddying tells until there's an alignment flip, so I'm going to move on.

Fitz's latest post is at least making some effort to avoid getting lynched, but I'm not liking the misrepping he's doing in the later parts of the post

[havingfitz]

...but I'm not liking the misrepping he's doing in the later parts of the post

How am I misrepping anyone? And who...Mari?

[Oopidstay]

So do I take this to mean if you 'knew me' better you would not be voting me? I thought mafia was a game of deduction and investigation...not a popularity club.

2) So the fact I smiled at Antihero for using 'TIMIDITY ' to describe my RV is one of your voting factors? The old emoticon scumtell. Niiiiiice.......

There ya go.

Not sure what the cases are on me at the moment but if they are based on my emphatic RV or not commenting on DP's fake daykill they are reaching and most likely being pushed by scum.

Oopidstay being the most obvious.

Also waiting to see how you justify the above.

[Zdenek]

What's reaction fishing? And what does that say about LMP's alignment?

What I mean is that he self-voted to try to get a reaction, but didn't have a plan to determine what constituted a scummy reaction from a town reaction, so really it was just an attempt to get the game started. As far as what it says about his alignment, I think self votes are safe because they avoid started arguments and are more likely to be done by scum than town in RVS (at least in my experience this is true) and it bothers me that made this move late in RVS (arguably after RVS) so I'd say it makes me lean scum on him.

What? I find this very hard to believe someone was "caught" for ignoring a fake daykill. Link if completed?

Not completed.

How was anybody supposed to know this?

It was a guess, but every time I've seen someone play in that manner, they've been labeled as town, at least by everyone except new players. Also, I think the reasoning behind them being town is pretty solid because there are not many scum motivations to make a fake day vig kill draws a lot of attention to yourself and you could easily make an enemy in the game. However, because of this, there is one big scum motivation, people will think that you are town if you do it, so to not ask something of a player who does it is a mistake, just to see if anything comes up.

[smargaret]

@ Mod, my vote should be on David Parker, not Fate.

I'm not a double voter to my knowledge.

Corrected.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, I have a major lack of creativity. Enlighten me, please.

Here's the crazy thing; if you tell people what you're looking for; they generally try to pander to or against that depending on what makes sense. It's the concealed nature of such a technique that makes it a useful tool.

I will note that because of my vote I'm leaning town on Antihero and CityofAs and leaning scum on one of you and Mariyta but not both of you.

I'm here intentionally lurking btw, surprised Antihero hasn't called me out on it

Noted, thanks.

[Zdenek]

I will note that because of my vote I'm leaning town on Antihero and CityofAs

I'd like you to explain this logic because I have never seen it before. How can someone's vote be the reason for their reads?

[LimMePls]

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today. I'd really like some comments on my thoughts on CityOfAs, particularly from COA.

I think this is your only post concerning me (correct me if I am wrong):

Blargh! First time I ever self vote, attempting to reaction fish, and I get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Pretty hilarious.

Unvote
Vote: CityOfA

For expressing pretty good suspicion of havingfitz in 93 followed by vote on Smargaret in 94, when a vote on fitz would have been MUCH better. Something doesn't smell right to me there.

Why do you think a vote on fitz is better? And if so, why did you never vote for fitz? In post #119 and 154, you say that smargaret is a high scum suspect. So why is me voting for her scummy? IMO I had a slightly better case on her than on fitz.

The smargaret accusation at that point in time was weak. Smargaret has done more recent stuff that is much better. So the voting smargaret when your accusation of fitz was stronger is strange. So I disagree with your assessment of the strength of those two cases. Hence my vote and questions.

Please explain in a single post both of the cases you were making in 93 and 94, and why you feel the one on smargaret was better.

Pretty sure we can't go wrong with lynching fitz or smargaret today.

Why are you voting me then?

You still hadn't addressed my points, and I didn't want you to lurk them away.

[Fate]

I should probably stop trying to produce content using the latest page and whatever info I vaguely remember from the thread