PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[PranaDevil]

vote: Llamafluff

Just as a small hello of course.

[PranaDevil]

3) I don't follow you...did you get your alignment before you submitted your draft?

You could change your numbers as much as you wanted until Spyrex posted the draft. Meaning scum could discuss their picks and change them accordingly.

[PranaDevil]

(by the way, what was the point of the fruit vendor? it seems to do nothing)

Read the fallout of the last PYP game, we had a short discussion about it there.

[PranaDevil]

Much as I don't like defending people... thus far Jack's play is a null tell for me. I've literally just finished a game with him and Vollkan (me and Vollkan as scum in fact) and Jack's play seems pretty much the same as it did there to me.

Not saying he isn't scum, but at the moment he's done nothing out of the ordinary for Jack so far.

[PranaDevil]

HOOOOOOOOOPS.
If 1{Gude/Volkan}
+ that Volkan's not-knowing-bus-driver is in settup thingy makes him toooowwwwwwwn.
Yeah.

False. Anything like that after Hoopla's stuff is now null. Town would legitimately not know, and scum could be attempting to use it to their advantage by trying to make themselves appear like others Hoopla has mentioned.

[PranaDevil]

Anywhose I agree about the increased likelyhood of a scum in the top 4. I like hooplas reasoning to exclude chk. I'd also want to rule out Guideran. I while I see scum going for top picks I don't see them desiring cop. And going 1,1 seems like and all or nothing move.

Why is cop the number one pick across the board? Wouldn't scum want vig? Role cop? And maybe scum could want cop to prevent town from having it.

Can't speak for games 1 and 2, but I know in number 3 not a single person picked cop. So it's definitely not the number one pick across the board, but I am glad you picked up on this as I'd missed it.

Scum would be willing to go all or nothing (perhaps more than town, but that's WIFOM and I wont go there), as it's not automatically read that pick 1 is cop, pick 2 is a vig, pick 3 is the other vig etc. It's whatever you choose to pick. So if you're number 1 you go for whatever role you deem best for yourself (or if scum, your team). In the last game the top two scum went for both of the vigs. I wouldn't be shocked if the top two scum attempted the same thing here either.

[PranaDevil]

Question, why did no one else pick 1,1?

Because someone normally goes for 1, and for the newer players, you expect someone else to have already gone for it. If someone else had, you'd be nearer the bottom of the list.

hooplas massive analysis has a high chance of leading town down a road full of mislynches.

Not if you use it "in addition" to other evidence.

What if scum all picked 6?

Then they shouldn't be living anymore because they'd not be intelligent enough to breathe.

[PranaDevil]

Unvote;
Vote: Benmage

[PranaDevil]

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

And Ben.. where to start? Your entire last post screams scummy to me, first you're blatantly trying to fish for roles, for a starter, Gude's.

He might be town, he might be scum, but your asking him what role he's picked isn't just rolefishing, it's very blatant rolefishing under the guise of "If you didn't pick cop you must be scum!"

Now if we consider that the rolefishing is distancing... you're instead trying to direct the Weak Doc into targetting Gude by claiming he's most likely to be the cop. (Or other useful role for town), thus losing us our doc in one night.

But on top of those (which has to be one or the other), if Gude ISN'T the cop, you're obviously hoping to out whoever IS said cop.

So, you're either scum and hopping onto the Gudetown wagon (in which case trying to find out his role and/or find the cop), or you're scum WITH Gude, and you're trying to lead the weak doctor into danger tonight and find out who, if anyone, is the cop (for those new, PYP3 had scum searching for a cop all game and there wasn't one. It would benefit scum hugely to find out if there is, or isn't, a cop early on).

So yeah, scummy as hell from where I'm sitting.

[PranaDevil]

If you had paid attention to what I had already said you would know there wasn't a cop in PYP3 at all even prior to what you posted.

And you even admit that you're not even asking for Gude's claim, you're demanding it.

What if the person who picked number 1 hates being a cop? They should pick it to satisfy you? No, you pick the role you feel will benefit the town most through being used by you, or the role you play best with, not some role that you might not enjoy using, or be useless with, or feel isn't as useful (what with the inverter), so no, your entire "I demand Gude claim" stuff is bollocks.

And yes, you would still be bussing because if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude (and how the hell would you know the weak doc went there anyway? I'm sure scum were 1 and 2 in PYP3... and I was in a mason pair WITH the weak doc, you don't use that role to protect, you use it to clear people, so whoever the weak doc is, take it as read that you should be clearing people, not trying to protect people. Thus the weak doc may not have gone for number 1 anyway, I sure as hell wouldn't). Where was I? Oh yeah, if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude then evidently you would bus him for pro-town points and you've just offed a strong town investigative/protection role as trade. It's a nice trade for scum really, the less people who can confirm people as town the better off the scum is.

[PranaDevil]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't, I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is. For me, like I say, I would likely go for the vig roles at the top, not only are they useful for town anyway, but they harm scum by a wide margin because you're preventing them from taking extra kills. Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play. The most stupid play possible for a weak doc in fact. The chance of one of the unique numbered players being scum is HIGH in this game. The chance of more than one is as well, but only slightly less so. For the weak doc to target someone who could possibly be scum is stupid, because if Gude is scum we lose our weak doc and our only 100% sane investigator (the cop's sane, but can be thrown by the inverter), great move dead doc.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

Basically your plan revolves around making assumptions about things based on your personal preference, as opposed to what is actually logical and useful in this specific game, and in these games the cop is not, and should not, be the number 1 pick unless you wish to give scum extra kills.

[PranaDevil]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't

Logic isn't a strong attribute for everyone.

I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is.

Cop is brainless and gives the best results. I am very good at this game and reading people. But some people, who are town. Suck and play terribly scummy. A vig kills them because they are scummy. Good... but bad because they flipped town. A cop, confirms them one way or the other.

A cop could be targetting people who are hard to read. Or people they are getting a scummy vibe from but have no evidence to truly back it up yet.

Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

You think if the scums not the vig that its gonna live very long?

This coming from a guy yet to play in one of these... the vig kill would go to known town that "could" be percieved as the vig making a mistake, while the actual scum kill takes out pro-town. 2 Kills per night for scum is worse for town than 1 kill per night. The vigs are much more powerful as a scum weapon than a town weapon. the benefit of not just HAVING the vigs as town, but preventing scum from taking them far outweighs the benefit of having a cop.

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play.

Bes play?...Yep.

I'm begging Fate to rip you a new one here. You're suggesting that the weak doc potentially COMMIT SUICIDE night 1? The weak doc is far stronger as an investigative tool to confirm town for a few days than he is slitting his own throat for the sake of a single scum lynch. Losing the weak doc harms town more than it harms scum.

The weak doc dies N1, we kill the #1 pick. Period. And get a 1-1 trade. Thats good.

For scum it is, sure.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

For those of us who are smarter than rocks, said cop is already outted.

Unless Gude is scum, or is town with a different role than cop, y'know... because so far you are assuming that everyone should view things as you do, I'm pointing out that not everybody does, and your policy lynch of "If you don't pick the cop as number 1, you are scum" is fucking stupid.

Well then chief.

Let's break down your plan:

Either way the #1 pick has an awesome Town PR.

True or False?

False, #1 pick could be scum. If not scum, then yes, a strong PR.

Either way scum are going to want to NK awesome town PR.

True or False?

Depends, scum can take out #1 if they're town, but if they're scum they'd have to pick further down the list, scum could easily target someone lower and bank on us wiping out #1 on the basis of WIFOM "scum would have taken you out if you were town", hardly rocket science here.

Either way the weak doc should be protecting said awesome town PR, the #1 pick.

True or False?

False, if #1 is scum, the weak doc dies, however, we don't know why the weak doc died... unless we have 3 deaths, we'd have no clue who did what. If there's two deaths it means a vig hit someone, and the scum hit someone, but one of those could have been blocked and the weak doc got nobbled by scum #1, we don't know.

and if the vig targets #1, and the doc saves it, but mafia wind up hitting the weak doc, we could lead to lynching #1 who flips town... and oh look we fucked it up.

Either way weak doc dies N1 we lynch #1 pick.

And if the weak doc didn't die through protecting scum? Yeah, congrats you've just wasted a day on a crap shoot.

And this is all considering we even HAVE a weak doc or a cop. We could have both, we could have one of them, we could have fucking neither. Those roles at the start aren't guarenteed to be there, what if NOBODY has picked weak doc? "whoops"?

No Ben, either you're being exceptionally niave about things here, or you're trying to lead the weak doc into killing themselves, AND finding out the role of Gude, both of which only benefit scum.

[PranaDevil]

In response to people who doubt why would scum would pick similar numbers, to avoid exactly what is going on now. They are, essentially, given a free pass for several days.

Scum could still be at the bottom of the list, but if there's 5 scum you can be sure that 3 minimum picked seperate 1st numbers from the other two, it would be stupid for scum to deliberately put themselves at the bottom of the pile, or even in the middle of the pile. Thus you can be certain that a minimum of 3 of the five scum will be seperated in each grouping that Hoopla posted earlier. With a chance that the other two are either split, or together in a group.

Hence by law of averages, scum are likely to have at least one player in the top 3 or 4 slots.

This is another reason scum might leave people at the top alive... not just WIFOM, but we will wind up lynching them most likely.

I ask again, if picking higher benefits the town, why did no one else pick 1,1? You either get a powerful role for the town, and knock off any scum that would also choose 1,1. (or any other subsequent high number)

Because most people aren't picking on the basis of "getting one over scum" but "what will benefit them" thus it becomes a big WIFOM piece of guesswork even before the game, I went with my numbers because I figured lower down people wouldn't be as likely to pick that number first (bugger), and then totally fucked up by forgetting that the second number is absolutely useless unless you pick 1 (2 at a push if you think someone else might have your number already).

Ben, the point of this game is to choose role you would LIKE, thats the point of a draft with multiple roles. What role did you pick?

Now YOU are role fishing? What the fuck?

[PranaDevil]

@Mod: Is it possible for scum to take vig powers? And if so, are the scum just in essence a vig who can't shoot?

All roles operate exactly the same regardless of the alignment of who has it. All roles are available to all alignments.

I hope to god this wasn't an actually asked question... because if it is someone needs a slap upside the head.

[PranaDevil]

Fate, the one time I need you to back me up, on a stupid statement from Ben no less, you turn all failed comedian on me. And here I thought we were just starting to see on the same page .

[PranaDevil]

I do love a good Fate rage, I also love how every time I've played with him and he's gone nutso like this he's also been bang on the money. (I think the Chronopie thing was a nod to SE III too, but my brain's frozen).

Anyways... scum:

Guderian
Hoopla
Benmage

Two others to add at a later time, though I like the InHim points Llama raised earlier.

I do like the Hoopla wagon though, Benmage still needs lynching, Gude is definite scum, but Hooplascum needs shutting down earlier than later as even with a less powerful role than other scum, as a player she's the most dangerous to town.

unvote;
Vote: Hoopla

[PranaDevil]

I mean that you are scum, and that as scum, you are much more beneficial to scum's win condition than any of the other roles they may have at this moment in time, even if your role turns out to be just plain Mafia Goon.

[PranaDevil]

If hoopla is scum, guderian is scum. If hoopla is town, guderian is scum. Wagoning hoopla makes no sense.

So I have to either read all that or switch to guderian. Are people seriously willing to argue that gandalf is town though?

Guderian is scum regardless, Hoopla is a much better player as Guderian and thus can direct scum better the longer she is alive. Dead Hooplascum as Mafia Goon is better for town day 1 than say, dead Guderian scum as Mafia Vig.

[PranaDevil]

Seriously, you're just playing to my ego, saying I'm the scum mastermind, when in reality players like me gather a lot of attention reagrdless which is the exact opposite of what makes a successful scum player, particularly when the town is filled with people suffering from a hero complex, relishing the opportunity to take down the top dog.

Why are you using WIFOM Hoopla?

"I'm only getting attention because I get attention anyway, so it would be a bad scum strategy to have me as scum" huh? You don't pick whether you're scum, and if you were extra quiet this game it would definitely be picked up on, so you had no choice but to give it all you had to show you were on town's side. Leaving the above quote to be pure WIFOM.

[PranaDevil]

This wagon on hoopla is crappy. You may not believe in the numbers theory but that doesn't mean that hoopla-town doesn't. She linked to the game where she was town already. "role fishing" makes sense based on the theory. She hasn't been scummy since it turned out gandalf was scum.

First off, both myself and Fate were active and town in the game where Hoopla was town, so we know all about that game.

Also, I do believe in the numbers theory, in the sense that with 5 scum, 3 will have unique X numbers at least, the final 2 either also have unique X numbers, or deliberately went for the same X number to try and throw town (even more likely with Hoopla-scum because she would understand how good of a tactic it was, and hence be pushing the number theory of there being only 1 scum per X block).

But at the same time, Hoopla had no choice but to push that number theory, Hoopla pushed it heavily in the past, it would have been so damned scummy if she'd just ignored it outright that at least one person (likely Fate in all honesty) would have called her on why she's not making it known this time round. Plus, if two scum have picked the same X number, pushing the number theory helps her hugely, because then if one of them is lynched, the other looks to be confirmed town.

[PranaDevil]

I'd say her math is correct in essence, because even with 100% knowledge of the set-up, scum would be screwed if they all deliberately landed near the bottom of the pile, thus a minimum of 3 scum went for seperate X numbers, and it's possible that 2 went for the same X number as each other.

But other than that, it all depends on what the town pick too, I do think though that Hoopla and Gude are scum together, and it was done on the basis of if Gude lands number 1 in the pick he can take a good role that's useful to town, while if he lands later on (which is more what's expected of 1,1 than top pick) it's not a problem. It just means he can be the fall guy for her math as they attempt to take out the top tier via lynches.

But Hoopla, Benmage or Gude are the options for today's lynch.

[PranaDevil]

Okay, but Gandalf and DGB... can you tell me how that would be possible?

The only way I can see that being possible is by having scum pick the same X number, and while I would say that's fine for 2 of the scum to pick the same number, the other 3 would have to be unique (to the other scum), which means it leads us back to the same position we're in with her math anyway.

So how would it be possible to intentionally pick numbers where the math is still correct, but doesn't hit scum?

[PranaDevil]

Because she knows that it's probable that scum would pick different numbers, and knows she has to push that early game. So she might have three of her buddies pick the same X number, for example.

and thus be most likely dead last in picking roles... and thus not even HAVE any role beyond mafia goon, which leads to the vigs taking them out and the cop picking them out.

As for DGB's option, again, it nullifies the entire point of scum being able to work together to collect some of the stronger roles. Scum willingly giving that up isn't just poor play, it's stupid play. I'm not even going to consider that the scum were dense enough to not co-ordinate themselves.

[PranaDevil]

C'mon Llama, Guderian is beyond obvious town? He's scum, that much is for certain.

Gandalf could possibly be scum, but even then he could just have fudged what he was saying spectacularly. I'm pretty sure Fate would remember my fuck up in SEII where I completely ballsed up my claim and was (rightly) lynched for it. I was of course town.

But Benmage, Hoopla and Guderian need to be chosen from for today's lynch.

[PranaDevil]

Come on Elli, whatever happened to your oom-pah-pah???

Maybe that's just how it goes?

[PranaDevil]

Llama, I couldn't give a toss about the numbers stuff, Gude is scum for more than just landing 1,1 at the top. He has been scummy as fuck as well.

[PranaDevil]

prana If I am so scummy why are you on somebody else's wagon? What changed your tune? Half way through this game you went from gudetown to gudemegascum.

I've explained why I'm on Hoopla's wagon, she's more dangerous than you to town even if she doesn't have a role. Strange as it may seem, I can only vote for one person at a time, which means some people I have a scum read on I wont be able to vote at the same time as someone else.

And your posts changed my tune. You're scum.

[PranaDevil]

Christ...

unvote

So Hoopla is town, chkflip, Gandalf, Benmage and Guderian are scum... one left to find.

Not sure which is more important to lynch... most likely Guderian as he's top of the list and thus will have the best role for the scum.

vote: Guderian

Will happily lynch any of the above 4 though.

[PranaDevil]

Here's a nice simple reason I've come upon the conclusion you are scum... you have dived away from the Benmage wagon because it's not going anywhere... solely to vote Hoopla because it looks like it might pick up steam. Thus the fact you jumped on that wagon, and not the Gandalf one, confirms that you and Gandalf are scum, and you are avoiding voting for your buddy on a wagon that might go all the way. So are instead voting Hoopla to get away from it.

Benmage and Guderian were already known scum.

[PranaDevil]

Please pay attention.

Gandalf is the lead wagon at the moment, you switched to Hoopla to bring up the rival wagon to get people off from Gandalf.

So bringing Guderian into this is ridiculous.

[PranaDevil]

I was unsure on the Gandalf thing until your sudden hop over to Hoopla and the fact it was just done because the Benmage wagon wasn't going anywhere, and the Hoopla one was.

[PranaDevil]

I'm trying to "pull" the rope on lynching scums, and you are scum. That much I am 100% positive of, same with Benmage.

Hoopla and chkflip cannot be scum together after that atrocious wagon dive by chkflip, which also shows Gandalf as scum.

Thus, 4 of the 5 scum are:
Guderian, Gandalf, Benmage, chkflip

[PranaDevil]

Yes chkflip, that's exactly what would happen... except I wasn't sold on you being scum until you pulled that little stunt, and unvoting because of it is even worse, because now you're saying you weren't convinced enough to truly believe that Hoopla is scum, but yet voted for her anyway.

[PranaDevil]

Looking back at your argument for chktown leaves me not knowing what to think, his actions have been blatantly scummy. But you're right, it is entirely possible he's inexperienced town, especially with that included.

As for me style, I guess I've just begun to get more aggressive as things have gone on, last PYP I was still relatively still wet behind the ears, and learning the ropes (and looking scummy regardless). Now I seem to play a bit more aggressively. However my style does also tend to change somewhat on my mood (which is up and down like Clinton's trousers at this time of year).

But Guderian is scum, and whether Pom likes it or not, I'm still 100% positive of that.

[PranaDevil]

So Benmage.. still ignoring the fact that so far out of three games the only time cop was picked in the number 1 slot was by scum? Llamafluff gave you the information earlier, but it would appear you would rather stare at the facts and say they're wrong. That's like looking out of the window at a ton of snow and saying it's a warm day.

And Pom, any chance of you perhaps getting involved in the game, or do you just plan on riding "you can't be 100%" line for the rest of this game day?

[PranaDevil]

PYP3 wasn't a vig every night either, they were the same as they are here, one even night, one odd night.

It was still picked over the cop role.

Thus you are still spouting utter bollocks.

As for Parama's post:

Le Cupcake - town
Benmage - scum
slowsilver - town
inHimshallibe - town
Andrius - town

[PranaDevil]

BURN. And I didn't even have to look at the game. Stop fucking talking to me Prana. You are a waste.

You're still talking out of your anus jackass.

Your number one pick IS NOT EVERYONE ELSES. Get that through your thick skull for fucks sake. "I'm" a waste... yeah, because I'm the tit who's so high and fucking mighty that he believes that his opinion of what to pick as number 1 is the right one.

You're scum, and you're also rolefishing.

[PranaDevil]

BURN. And I didn't even have to look at the game. Stop fucking talking to me Prana. You are a waste.

You're still talking out of your anus jackass.

Your number one pick IS NOT EVERYONE ELSES. Get that through your thick skull for fucks sake. "I'm" a waste... yeah, because I'm the tit who's so high and fucking mighty that he believes that his opinion of what to pick as number 1 is the right one.

You're scum, and you're also rolefishing.

What is your #1 pick?

I'd take one of the vigs, because not only does it mean town can take out extra potential scum, but it also means scum don't gain extra kills. Even more so in this game, as the cop has to put up with the possibility of getting an investigation on the inverter and that could be them stuffed as they'd claim they got a guilty, everyone lynches the player who was actually innocent, and scum take out the cop. (If scum have a vig, two kills on a single cop regardless of the doc's protection still kill him).

So yeah, I really don't feel cop is a great pick in this game for a top positioned player, especially as scum are likely to take out players near the top anyway. Therefore taking cop as number 1, as town, means you may as well be throwing that role down the toilet as scum are going to take you out almost regardless, and if nobody has picked the weak doc... well, you're screwed as the only other defence would be the Jailkeeper, which prevents the cop investigating anyway.

[PranaDevil]

Much as I don't like to agree with the above scum. He's right. We're 48 hours (or less I think, without checking) from a lynch, and the closest is Gandalf, and I'd prefer either a Benmage or Guderian lynch, as I'm now the only one on Guderian, it would seem Benmage is the other option. So I'll switch back over to him and hope we can get a solid lynch on him.

unvote;
vote: Benmage

I'm also in agreement that Andrius needs to actually get involved in the game.

[PranaDevil]

wait.... did you ever talk about wanting a Guderian lynch?

No, no I didn't. Which is why I am voting for Benmage, you are more town than Benmage is and you two are the only ones who we are realistically going to lynch,

Benmage of Guderian are the only ones realistically going to be lynched? O'rly?

Guderian being the guy who only had two votes on him until InHim and myself removed them you mean, and now he has zero votes on him?

As opposed to Gandalf who is currently the vote leader by my count.

[PranaDevil]

Llama... while I'm all for lynching scum, I fail to see why InHim's ISO 5 and 6 lend to him being scum more than town.

[PranaDevil]

Vollkan concerns me because it was posted much earlier by someone (and I'm paraphrasing) "If you have actions, get them in now to avoid missing deadline", and evidently he didn't get them submitted. That's a huge issue for me to accept him as town. However, I don't believe Gandalf would have announced he was vanilla to a role Vollkan had. It makes me feel Vollkan is most likely town, but I still have that niggling feeling that he could be scum, and Gandalf had gone for another role and claimed he had gone for Gunsmith.

Actually... thinking about it, is it possible Gandalf actually went for Supersaint, and didn't get it? Which in turn leads to scum trying to work out which of those above him had gone for it. When he's forced to claim, he claims the role Vollkan has to possibly give Vollkan town status...

However, if that's the case, then Guderian would be town... and I'm still not sold on that.

[PranaDevil]

Vollkan, claim your Gunsmith result.

He hasn't got one, he said so twice that he never sent in an action.

[PranaDevil]

Hoople makes a good case.

vote: slowsilver

[PranaDevil]

Jack needs to show where I've acted scummy in regards to Guderian and Vollkan. I think Guderian is possible scum (though Gandalf flipping and subsequent looking into it shows that I might be wrong there). But I have no clue how anyone could say I've acted scummy in regards to Vollkan... I've barely had any interaction with the guy.

slowsilver, you're saying I've only been voting and nothing else. Do you want to back up that claim or are you just going to make a poor claim that is blatantly false?

Also, plenty of people chose 6, only a single person chose 1 as their first number, so I'd hardly say most people liked those numbers. One of them yes, both? No.

[PranaDevil]

IAUN is about to be modkilled as well...

Good, Rabies and IAAUN are both scum with you and Prana so this is going to be amazing.

You and Llama have now both said I'm scum... Yet I have yet to see a single person have any reason behind it. How's about we start doing that eh?

[PranaDevil]

It's funny because you didn't deny being scum.

Y'know... that tends to go without saying. Town will say it because it's true, scum will say it because they want you to believe it's true. So what's the point in saying it in the first place unless you plan on posting fluff? Derp.

And Jack, if there's a case on me, I can respond to it. If there isn't, I can't. Simples.

[PranaDevil]

-you tried to derail the gandalf wagon
-you attacked/bordline tunneled me with minimal justification
-you couldn't wagoned harder onto slowsliver, nor have had a shittier vote. (Do you even know why we believe slow to be scum?)
-I haven't thought a single one of your posts decent
-you're a # double

And this is just off the top of my head.

I had stronger reads than Gandalf, namely you and Guderian, at that time.

I still think you are possibly scum, and "minimal justification" depends on how you look at it.

I admit fully that I had no case on slowsilver, but after seeing Hoopla's case on him it was compelling enough to require a vote.

Ditto

So what?

@Mod, I'm going to be V/LA until Monday

[PranaDevil]

Well, considering people look like they're going to be fucking stupid, and I'll be lynched by the time I return...

I be needing to claim.

Cop.

Innocent results - Pom and Llama

[PranaDevil]

Last game no fucker picked it. I guessed that no bugger would this time, and felt that while I'm always crap at playing cop, a couple of set reads is better than nothing at all.

Anyways, I'm off, I'll possibly check in in the morning if I have chance, otherwise adios until Monday (or I shall join people in the dead thread as I get offed tonight, and action is already submitted, so no worries if we lynch while I'm away and I do somehow survive).

And why are they shitty choices? I could see no solid read on either, and it at least confirms them as town (anyone who could potentially be seen as scummy may have the inverter being used on them, so I wasn't risking that, and anyone near the top of the numbers seemed pointless in general).

[PranaDevil]

or Llama is the inverter.

Just before I head off. The inverter picks a target. Anyone could be the inverter and pick anyone else to use the ability on. Which is the main reason I went for the choices I did. They were highly unlikely to have the inverter ability being used on them.

[PranaDevil]

Just got back, had a quick flick through, I like a Jack lynch, about to resubmit my night action before I consider placing a vote (do we have a vote count too, just so we don't accidentally hammer before everyone has sent out their actions).

[PranaDevil]

vote: Jack

And seriously Vollkan, as Fate says, you need to get your night actions submitted right at the start of the day, it's better to have wound up with a night action that's in the wrong place than none whatsoever.

[PranaDevil]

At this stage, I say someone just hammers Jack. If Vollkan seriously hasn't got his action in by now (He should, in all honesty, have sent it in when he knew he hadn't, rather than posting about it) I would suggest lynching him tomorrow. Unless I get a guilty of course.

[PranaDevil]

Got an innocent on Le Cupcake.

[PranaDevil]

Why aren't people claiming?

If we're going for a mass claim, we work from the bottom up. No chance of scum possibly being able to fake claim that they went for a specific role if it turns out that role isn't there.

[PranaDevil]

If Fate's voluntarily bussed two of his co-scum, while I've now confirmed 4 town (5 if you include me), he'd be bloody stupid with it, and I'm starting to find that (unless I suspect him) following Fate's lead in a game tends to lead to a solid end. Even if he does type like he's about five .

Also Gud... why are Elli and Benmage confirmed town in your list?

Pom is also town as that's who I checked night 1.

vote: Andrius

It's been on the cards for long enough, let's get him out of here.

[PranaDevil]

Before we lynch Andrius, I want that mass claim, I'd like to work out exactly where the inverter is before we continue (if we can confirm it's in town's hands, or in nobodies hands, then we can confirm in advance who I'll target and who Cupcake should target, and in essence win this thing with ease).

[PranaDevil]

Buggered if I know why scum have taken someone else out other than me last night.

I'd suggest we lynch Andrius today, I target someone tonight, if I land a guilty we lynch them and I'm confirmed that way. If I get an innocent, you lynch me and confirm everyone I've said is innocent. Either way town's on course for an easy win.

[PranaDevil]

I'm not revealing who I'm targetting... fucksake. There's a damned inverter out there who could target the same person.

Say I chose to target you Benmage, and announce as such, and scum inverter goes "I'll use my ability on Benmage" and I get a guilty... and oh look, you flip innocent, next day, town lynch me, I turn up town, and we're a little closer to being fucked.

If I don't reveal who I target, the chance IS still there, but is nigh on negligable at this point. It's possible one of those I targetted before had the inverter on them and was scum, but I doubt it, as I went for less obvious targets.

My suggestion is that we mass claim before we lynch, find out where the damned inverter is, and ideally lynch them if we believe them to be scum. Gets them out of the way entirely and we don't need to worry about them then.

[PranaDevil]

Cupcake may be playing stupid... but why are we voting for confirmed town?

[PranaDevil]

Fate you're playing fucking stupid now. "Prana's the cop and has confirmed 3 town, let's lynch him" what the hell? Get back onto Andrius for fucks sake.

[PranaDevil]

So... we kill the town cop, cupcake plays like an English footballer and scores an own goal by offing you tonight, and tomorrow we're left without a cop and without a strong town player, and the scum also remove one of the known town players (likely Cupcake) leaving us down 3 known town players, and only leaving 2 confirmed town...?

Yeah, way to go. That may be selfish, but it's ALSO stupid.

Get your head back in the game for fucks sake and let's get Andrius lynched, and if Cupcake has any brains one of the heads will get back in here and return to DGB as the kill.

[PranaDevil]

llama, dgb, xvart....w.t.f has noone hammered yet?

Because not everyone's claimed... and if they have... can someone who has noticed them all post a compiled list of it all?

[PranaDevil]

Oh, again. Would not be surprised if Xvart is scum. Play reminds me of aCoK..where he was scum.

But that would mean he picked the same X number as Jackscum. Do you believe they would have done that?

[PranaDevil]

They may have done, but they didn't in the last game if I remember rightly, and if they did, surely they'd be more likely to be in the 6's than in the 11's?

[PranaDevil]

vote:Nachomamma

We have our final scum

[PranaDevil]

11 alive, 6 to lynch, makes you the hammer by my count. Now we just need Spyrex to come in and call this thing.

[PranaDevil]

I'm surprised that had I not picked cop, we again wouldn't have had one. Why are people so against picking cop early on?

[PranaDevil]

I'm also shocked that Gud never got nightkilled. Unless they were afraid that the watcher may have been watching Gud (when it was, in fact, that Gud was the watcher).

[PranaDevil]

Twice I've been called scum in these games and I've been town... When will you guys realize that I ALWAYS look scummy?

[PranaDevil]

Start playing better then.

Says the guy who barely called any scum... and calls other scum "obv town", despite playing the exact same trick in the last game.

[PranaDevil]

Have to agree with Hoopla here, I was going to investigate Fate a few times, and even sent at least one PM to investigate him before I changed it. If it hadn't been for the fact you had been obv. town early game I'd have been almost dead certain you were scum this game Fate.

And Parama, step down off your little soap box. Nobody gives a shit.

[PranaDevil]

and I was surprised at how townie prana was this game. I had him down as obvtown D1. It kinda made me sad though, since I wanted an excuse to shoot him D2.

Trust me, had I not wanted to play in a PYP game again so bad, I'd have gone /out when you went /in. I almost wanted to press for a policy lynch D1. Even when I investigated you I had my fingers crossed going "please be scum, please be scum"... and then you weren't.

[PranaDevil]

The one person I was expecting to have flak from... is the one person who found me obv town. I got a little chuckle out of that.

It's been a slow day.

[PranaDevil]

Sod all this talk, where's the scum QT?

[PranaDevil]

Bollocks to that, I wanna see what was happening in there .

[PranaDevil]

You'd be stripping me of every last shred of human dignity I got... have mercy on my wretched soul.

I have no mercy .

[PranaDevil]

Nah, Llama played cracking town in a game with me, Vollkan and Jack in it (with me and Vollkan on the scum team side of things). I also did a pretty solid job in the SquareEnix III game (called the final scum not just before everyone else did, but as I died that night, town left him alive until the final day.)

We both were well off the mark here though.

I was convined Gud was scum because of his earlier comment about having better roles like cop that he could pick. Thus it read that he was breadcrumbing cop and I knew he wasn't... guess I was wrong. XD

[PranaDevil]

I'll be honest, in both the last game, and in this one, I've found that following Fate has fared me rather well when it comes to who to lynch. Though I was glad I investigated Cupcake when I did as that would have been an easy mislynch. And Elli/Nacho was looking likely to slide under the radar had I not investigated him/her. (Although I will admit that's about all I contributed in regards to the game, as I was wrong on pretty much all my reads there).