Was gone for most of the holiday weekend. Sorry.
Joy so Spyrex confirms scum were able to coordinate. IMO I do not really see how they had a whole lot of time to coordinate. I would bet most probably stuck with their original submission for when they signed up then. So I really dislike the arguments of "the whole scum team probably picked like they did in this or that PYP" because I really cannot see the benefit those arguments have from a numbers/lynching standpoint versus their power to FOS one way and lynch another. Not that they could not be good for analysis, but based on spyrex's clarification and the timing of the queue, to draft proceeding, the time allotted to scum to coordinate is/was significantly lower then other PYPs (in part due to the mod wanting to cut queue discussion no doubt). This is in addition to the having to submit numbers as you /in (which before alignment was received).
Many of the theories that have been assuming perfect coordination and I would submit that scum had less then perfect coordination (depends on activity of scum members and based on how fast this thread grows in a day, this argument could mean much less I suppose, but its a concern nonetheless). Also I see no reason why the scum would not just stick with the randomly submitted numbers (and granted we have a self admitted number changer in the thread so this argument holds less weight). Although this could be "less optimal" as phrased by some its also much "less readable" (how do you get a coercive tell on something that was generated with no group planning/coerciveness?). Randomly generated numbers were in fact generated by "to be" scum members. In fact I would posit a counter theory that scum may have used (some or all) of the initial numbers which caused the draft to produce a GREATER number of "neighborhood" members then other PYPs.
My opinion of course.
If most of you would like to continue the number analysis of course that is fine. But at least consider the above, and preferably comment about it. After all, arguments based on false principles are the worst forms of argument. Not only are they wrong but logical arguments based on false premises are the single greatest tool scum can use to manipulate town with.
@Hoopla- I have a few concerns. Are you willing to accept that some circumstances may be different between games (for instance, the one I outlined above)? Because I see you as wanting to treat this like the same formulaic PYP game with a few role differences rather then its own unique game (although related, different).
I am not going to buy the more scum exist in a given set, without reasoning for it, and I do not see it here.
Also what the hell is the reason for rolefishing more people? I really do not care that you believe a greater likelihood of scum is in a subset of people. If you thought gandalf was scummy and were still willing to lynch him at the point of you asking that question, then what point is there of getting more claims from people (even if you thought they were scummy, why could this not wait till after night then?)? I did not see a change in your gandalf stance (I could of missed it). Its one thing if there is a general consensus of scummyness from said people. But there is not such a thing, as much as you want to keep repeating it. Repeating something over and over does not make it true. The rolefishing makes no sense from a town POV.
unvote; vote: hoopla
(And what the heck was the point of your 413 post?)
@Benmage- First- your a moron. If the scum know with 200 percent certainty where a certain role is located because you think everyone should choose based on the same hierarchy is a bad idea. One of the strongest aspects of a PR being in the game is that it can appear randomly anywhere in the list. In this games its not so. Your comments concerning roles I feel are pointless to make from a town POV and could only be beneficial from a scum POV. There are so many holes in your "best play" theory it hurts.
Also my policy does not require anyone to say "Action submitted, I am a PR huck yuk". I just want a common agreement there is no excuse for unreasoned non actioning and to make a public notice loud enough that scum do not get to get away with "I did not submit an action the last 2 days because you guys lynched to fast and I was still reading the thread". I really hate dealing with that crap later, and I am trying to nip it in the bud here.
@Fate- Can you tune down with the noise? I know you find it fun, but it really is pointless (and makes reads from other players harder by comparison). I understand your points just fine.
@Rabies- Please make some more comments when you get a chance. If you need starting points: Opinion of Guderian wagon, opinion of gandalf wagon, and your own opinion about scum draft numbers. Preferably more than that.
_
Xvart is playing much better now imo. In particular, I like his gandalf catch as well as his reply to several players concerns.
Concerning the gandalf situation, that was indeed epic fail. But the problem is I could actually see him justifying his predecesors role choice pick as his own as town. Meh. That by itself was not enough, but his reaction to the entire situation strikes me with a slightly town vibe honestly (mostly being his thinking he would be lynched/pressured a bunch and posting his collection of reads on people to try and be a benefit makes me think he is town). What I really dislike about the situation though is chain wagoning based on just that quote and a vote. The guderian case is better than the gandalf case imo and I would like to see what gandalf wagoners have to say about the other and vice versa.
If we are going to play the best path to follow is this strategy game then I have a proposal. Which I am going to put in my following post.
