SSK(Under Zwet's Evil Mind Powers)'s Random Mafia XL Day 3

[Bunnylover]

No, you didn't get scumpoints for voting for me. Nice misrep.
You got scumpoints for actually placing a non-RVS vote and trying to make a case that it was actually scummy to be the 3rd vote on a wagon.

So your just going to keep ignoring the bandwagoning part of the case?

[chesskid3]

@Frozen:

The "call to action post" WoMC mentioned is (if I am interpreting what he said correctly), this:

Why vote for rules? we should be going after scum.

For an RVS style vote, reaction hunting and the like, it's a good vote. "Argument" being that post is towncred hunting. Response being good or bad will either determine whether a new suspect is needed, or more votes are good.
Not really seeing why this makes WoMC more likely scum when a bunch of people jumped on him both for not voting his suspect + same reasoning after he voted.



Tasky post 91: "I do not care about what happens to that wagon at long as it doesn't go to a lynch this early."

...Where anywhere in Tasky's ISO does he "jump on Kito"?
Unless you are referring to this, in ISO #4 "stop talking about lynching already. we are wagoning more or less at random trying to see something that can be analyzed later."
However the point i was making was that this was in ISO #3 "I do not care about what happens to that wagon at long as it doesn't go to a lynch this early."
Kito got the heat for talking about lynching, but not Tasky. I find that strange.

*yawn*

Townpoints.

Townpoints for the number of people jumping on him. I also like ISO #4. Defends himself with confidence.

"If Weapons flips scum, I'm going to take a good hard look at everyone defending him." Threat is noted.
This is a nice scummy way of saying "back off defending Weapons, or you're next". tsk tsk.

Tasky

UNVOTE: VOTE: chesskid

Responses to points I made on you = good.
Voting someone because they finding your posts scummy = bad.

Bunnylover

No, you didn't get scumpoints for voting for me. Nice misrep.
You got scumpoints for actually placing a non-RVS vote and trying to make a case that it was actually scummy to be the 3rd vote on a wagon.

So your just going to keep ignoring the bandwagoning part of the case?

Apparently I misunderstood. Your case wasn't that I was the 3rd vote on a wagon, it was that I bandwagoned without justification?
Well, in that case I really don't see a case. Come back when you have something that isn't an unexplained vote on page 4.

[Tasky]

Kito got the heat for talking about lynching, but not Tasky. I find that strange.

1. are strange things in any way useful to scumhunting?
2. WHERE DID I TALK ABOUT LYNCHING??

[chesskid3]

more than one wagon is always good.

You nervous that the one on Feysal is going to go somewhere?

I do not care about what happens to that wagon at long as it doesn't go to a lynch this early.

I only think bandwagoning creates information, and two competing wagons usually do this even more, because you don't have only the options {get on bandwagon, not get on bandwagon} but you have {get on bandwagon one, get on bandwagon two, get on no bandwagon} and therefore there is more to analyze later.

replace strange with "will be quite useful once we get some flips" then, eh?

[Tasky]

^haha. sadly, no. that is not talking about lynches.
saying "let's lynch chesskid" is talking about lynches. answering FM's stupid question is not talking about lynches, it's saying it's to early for lynches.
we are either really talking about different things when we say "talking about lynching" or you are misrepresenting me badly.

[chesskid3]

talking about lynching, even to say "no lynching this early" is still talking about lynching.
It changes the whole mindset of the game, and it's not good to rush it.

[Tasky]

replace strange with "will be quite useful once we get some flips" then, eh?

I see...
Answer at least one of those then:
1) Assume I flip town, what conclusions would you draw from that strangeness?
2) Assume I flip scum, what conclusions would you draw from that strangeness?
3) Assume Kito flips town, what conclusions would you draw from that strangeness?
4) Assume Kito flips scum, what conclusions would you draw from that strangeness?
Maybe you didn't mean any of the above. In that case answer
5) Choose one player (P) and an alignment (A). Assume P flips A, what conclusions would you draw from that strangeness?

[Tasky]

talking about lynching, even to say "no lynching this early" is still talking about lynching.
It changes the whole mindset of the game, and it's not good to rush it.

Ah, really? Well, technically you are talking about lynching too, then.
Calling someone out for "talking about lynching" as I did, can't possibly be considered as "talking about lynching". Your argument makes no sense at all

[chesskid3]

All I did was point out how Kito got called out for it, but you didn't. Honestly it makes you look more town than Kito does, because the person who called Kito out on it was scummy, and it stank of distancing.

You are on my watchlist, however.

[Tasky]

All I did was point out how Kito got called out for it, but you didn't. Honestly it makes you look more town than Kito does, because the person who called Kito out on it was scummy, and it stank of distancing.

Omg:
1) It was me calling Kito out on it. Therefore you are contradicting yourself.
2) there was no need to call me out on anything. I DID NOT TALK ABOUT LYNCHES, I CALLED SOMEONE OUT ON IT.
3) ANSWER MY QUESTION(S). you said that when it comes to flip, that "strangeness" could give us info. Time to show your work, then.
Please stop ignoring/misunderstanding what I say.

You are on my watchlist, however.

I think you are scum. This post is not townish at all.

[chesskid3]

I am not contradicting myself. Saying OMG and linking to shit that does not have anything to do with it does not prove me wrong.
If Frozen flips scum, you and Kito need to be looked at closely. That's what strange was.

Negative reaction to being told you aren't on my townlist is noted. Yawn.

[FrozenMirror]

Helgast’s 64 where he states the obvious (we should be lynching scum) while not having a vote on a suspect is doubleplusScum.

Helgast’s 110 is further stupid as it isn’t scum-hunting but more mindless Game Mechanic talk.

Helgast’s 130 and further 144 are active lurking material gone Wild.

Helgast @147 – Didn’t you just do the same thing you accuse WMC of by voting after Vezok questions you about not having any game thoughts?

WMC’s 77 is also bad for identifying scum and then voting for a rule.

WMC’s followup at 101 is furtherly obv-scum material. The vote in reaction to criticism coupled with the bad attempt to explain away a purposeful attempt to not lynch scum (lynching Night) as ‘Nightless would be interesting’ means WMC is obv-scum.

I absolutely love (this is sarcasm for the unititiated) how IH’s 94 sets up multiple relational tells that really have little to do with reality. Multiple people made an easy vote on Chess … why is Tasky the one you point out?

IH @ 119 – Scumpoints for attempting to say Vezo’s making a soft-claim when EVERYONE IN THE GAME HAS A ROLE. Further scum-points for not jumping on ToonFighter’s statement at 121 for doing what Vezo did.

SleeplessAss @ 138 – Town has no clue. Why not tell us which of your partners you are distancing from here?

Chesskid @139 – Further proof that his ability to make solid gut reads is as compromised as ever.

Chesskid @ 151 – Townpoints for WMC posting fluff? Boggle …

So far I’d be happy to see Helgast, WMC or IH swing. Sleepless is active lurking. Chesskid has reverted to VI status.

Catch-up [/over]

[chesskid3]

"WMC’s followup at 101 is furtherly obv-scum material. The vote in reaction to criticism coupled with the bad attempt to explain away a purposeful attempt to not lynch scum (lynching Night) as ‘Nightless would be interesting’ means WMC is obv-scum."
What would you have done in that situation then, if you're awarding him scumpoints for voting his scumread?

Also I will not be discredited. You can't go like lol so what he suspects me he's a VI. NOT GOING TO WORK.

[Wraith]

Wow, this is something new to me. For some reason me brain absolutely refuses to work when I read this game. I'm all like "God damn it, read the words" and my brain's like "What words? These are random letters" and then I'm all like "Fuck. I'll get back to this later."

Right now I'm really occupied. When one of my other games finally hits night I'll do a dedicated read of this thread.

[Feysal]

I had some spare time, and used it to reread the thread. I am getting some early reads on players, though nothing very strong yet. Based on what I've seen from IH and vezokpiraka, I would not be surprised if they were anti-town. There are a handful of others I have town reads on, but most players are still neutral for me.

Unvote: Helghast
Vote: IH

Some early tests to break the setup for town, but no comment on the effects those lynches would have. I've seen scum suggest breaking plans to appear town before, and seen them shot down by actual town. After that, he jumped at me for commenting on the potential effects of lynching night. Then, there are some relational tells, which I deem strange for so early in the game. I'm also suspicious of his position on early lynches. Personally I think an informed lynch, even a mislynch, is more informative than one that occurred in random voting phase, so I don't see why avoidance of an early lynch would limit information. On the contrary, further discussion and interaction between players should prove more informative. Finally, we have two comments on vezokpiraka's claim, while ignoring Toon Fighter.

It is not much, but this is the best I could find on my reread.

I have one of the worst roles ever -.-

I find this claim odd. Why would you feel the need to share this information now?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Blah.

*yawn*

is a towntell. Believe it.

chesskid is obvtown, again. Tasky is probably town also.

FM is tunneling like that new mole pokemon. Some of his assertions are hilariously wrong, for example:

What good posting has Weapons even done? His first 3 posts are all RVS,

his 4th post is calling out a scum suspect

but

not

acting upon it, his 5th post is a one liner saying my case is "balls" then voting for his scum suspect after having been called out for it. His 6th post is the only one that could be even mildly be construed as good, saying that he voted night so scum couldn't coordinate their night actions, but it isn't it obvious that if there is no night phase and everyone uses their night actions during the day, that scum will get to TALK during the day, thus making the situation even worse? His most recent post, which was several days ago, consists of *yawn*.

This consists of zero scum hunting.

Please point out the good posting and he has done, and where you could possibly get a gut town read off him.

I'm sorry to say, but I don't think you've done any scumhunting, FrozenMirror. At all.

Yeah, I could be more active, but no, I'm not. Deal with it. And you need to get better at recognizing town tells beyond goodposting. So narrow minded.

Would also support Feysal lynch at this point, #1 in iso reads as very bussy in the careful way it was posted and of course the wishy washy ness of the last line. Aside from that, it's been mostly RVS theory battles, but also note the quick turnaround between #1 and #4.

Vote: Feysal

For posting without a random vote. CLEARLY trying to avoid this stage of the game.

That is true, I don't believe in random votes serving a real purpose in scumhunting.

However, since you asked so kindly, I rolled my patently untrustworthy d20 and it stopped on 18. Thus:

Vote: Helghast

Are we seriously considering voting away the night phase? Hmm... I can see it having advantages for town, but it would have some disadvantages as well. Such as screwing up the natural order of resolving actions.

@feysal: What's the random voting stage good for, in your opinion? What's the best way to act at the beginning of day one?

I think it is good for provoking reactions. The way people react to random votes and their reasons for voting and wagoning others are potentially informative, much more than who they vote randomly.

I'm actually quite pleased with what my random vote started, despite the wagon forming on me. We got out of the random vote phase, and people started discussing who is likely to be scum. Can't take credit for it, since I really did not see it coming though. Now I have some reactions and viewpoints to work with, once I have some time for rereading I should find someone to place a serious vote on.

Also, the last question is rather pointless/something I've seen scum do a lot to contribute.

Helghast slips quickly onto my wagon with this gem:

[reasoning]: under pressure he quickly made a vote

I laugh.

Staying here for now.

[FrozenMirror]

Ah, poor WMC.

Town-tells don't exist. Please don't tell me you believe they do. Like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny or Bill Clinton they are all figments of you imagination fed to you by your parents seeking to control your behavior. Anything you claim is a Town tell is easily replicable by scum.

Indifference as a wagon disarming tactic is barely a tactic, much less a tell.

You can argue with my other half about the quote. Quote WOTing is for squares.

I love your complete misrep that I'm tunneling. Here's a hint ... my post where I point out your partners IH and Helgast who also can take the rope shows I'm doing anything but. And I'd love to see what else you'd try to say is wrong since you didn't bother to back up your assertion.

Cool story though, bro.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Town-tells don't exist.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

With views like that, you should consider retiring soon.

[chesskid3]

Town-tells don't exist.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

With views like that, you should consider retiring soon.

QFT

[IH]

Some early tests to break the setup for town, but no comment on the effects those lynches would have. I've seen scum suggest breaking plans to appear town before, and seen them shot down by actual town. After that, he jumped at me for commenting on the potential effects of lynching night. Then, there are some relational tells, which I deem strange for so early in the game. I'm also suspicious of his position on early lynches. Personally I think an informed lynch, even a mislynch, is more informative than one that occurred in random voting phase, so I don't see why avoidance of an early lynch would limit information. On the contrary, further discussion and interaction between players should prove more informative. Finally, we have two comments on vezokpiraka's claim, while ignoring Toon Fighter.

Read back, check it and see
I didn't push for that, I just tested it g

~Grunty the witch

[danakillsu]

I am reading now and will post as soon as I'm done reading.

[danakillsu]

Unvote Vote: FrozenMirror

Not just for the towntells thing, but also because his attack on chesskid in his latest post seemed very opportunistic in light of Tasky's back-and-forth with chesskid.
As far as Prokhor is concerned, no, I don't have any hard feelings, obviously, but I think there is some truth to the fact that a random wagon is hard to start on scum and that only one vote joined me when I pushed for Prokhor votes. This means that I find chesskid to be town, and Prokhor to be just as scummy as ever.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Feysal: just a little experiment

[Nero Cain]

Chesskid has reverted to VI status.

QFT!!!!

Blah.

*yawn*

is a towntell. Believe it.

This is quite horrid...

WMC, Chess or Sleepless needs rope.

[Rain]

I'd say WoMC, Chesskid3 and Tasky.

The Chesskid <-> Tasky exchange looks extremely fake, just random discussion on semantics and technicalities. In addition, Chesskid says Tasky looks more town than Kitoari, but basically fencesits on Tasky's alignment.

There seems to be clear buddying between Chesskid and WoMC.

Also, there are a lot of points I disagree with Chesskid. To name a few:
.giving town points to... a yawn...
.giving town points to Helghast for "Why vote for rules? we should be going after scum."
.ending your posts with "You're on my watchlist" is a great way to increase your post's word count, and even seemingly trying to scumhunt, without doing squat.

Unvote
Vote: Chesskid3