Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Furcolow]

You might think Furc = town was "obvious," but I didn't see you logically proving it to convince others to unvote him.

He claimed a fucking ward and a mod error with that ward AND that he didn't hear noise even though he didn't know the rules had changed regarding ward. Does it really take someone spelling it out before people can get that? I don't think there is anything that could be more obvious than Furc's investigator status and I'm suspicious of the people that were trying their damndest to shovel shit on him because they know they can rile him up and potentially get him mislynched.

Re: posts/pages
My point is that it shouldn't have taken actual town 20 pages to figure out Furc is town. You appear to have explained it before SpyreX, which is fine, but that only makes it slightly better imo. I feel that your first post was definitely meant to test the waters of calling him scummy. Why else would you "offer reasons" for him to be all three alignments without taking a solid stance on his alignment? All of the same evidence has been there from the beginning.

going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

So you think you can just say this, and then suddenly you'll be able to backtrack as much as you want without suspicion?

Cool story bro.

Basically. Excuse making at its finest. "Just because we flop positions to fit the changing of the tides doesn't make us scummy because we're a hydra." ffff

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Lost Butterfly

This is a fight I definitely want to get into and a place people should be paying more attention. I know I'm not going to out word Mina, but I'd like to highlight some important quotes later today or tomorrow so people can see what I'm talking about. In the meantime, wagon ho!

where were you at when i tried to wagon them for two days?
if you want to lynch LB, there are many lynches that indicate their alignment which are less hurtful on the town if LB is an investigator (baby spice, seacore, fate) in my opinion

im still fairly happy with a lynch on LB, i've been pushing that nearly all day.

Furc 795 - I applaud your effort in posting multiple thoughts in one post. I also enjoyed your misrep about me saying I was too good to answer MoI's question. The biggest thing I'll note is that my plan, however flawed it might be in your eyes, would absolutely guarantee you to not have insanities if you don't. You don't even suggest that it is okay with you for my plan, even though it would completely clear you of what I am accusing you of. Even a Cult Member would say, "go ahead and Book me" if he/she did not have an insanity.

You think I’m not playing aggressively when any number of people have attacked me for being too aggressive regarding Furc? Cool story bro.

It doesn't matter what other people think. What matters is I'm seeing some indications that your Furc-agressiveness may have been faked, and now that Furc's near-unanimously believed to be Town, you're looking for something to do. So you follow on Spy to vote on AV. However, the problem is that lacks the usual MoI Town-aggression I've seen before~. It reeks of buddy distancing, I tellz ya.

Wouldn't the appropriate place for you vote be on the person he is distancing from (AV), since your case hinges on AV being scum?

Honestly, would people be interested in giant cases from me tomorrow night (I'd saved what I'd written on kunkstar and xvart last night, and there's stuff I'd like to call attention to from other players), or is everyone just overwhelmed by all the wall posting? If it weren't against every fibre of my nature, I'd almost say we should move on with a lynch as quickly as possible just to get a flip and keep the game from stagnating. (If we decide on that route, then I'd direct my attention to players who are being wagoned instead.

I actually thought what you posted was your case; but I would certainly be interested in any more details you might have for the case on me, provided Faraday isn't going to come in on Tuesday and say the opposite.

@ xvart and MoI - What do you think of Lost Butterfly? Do their conflicting posts bother you?

You know, I'm debating how much I should defend against this, because I think I'd be more interested in hearing how xvart and MagnaofIllusion answer when they reread.

1

I will say that the questions you should be asking should be:

2

-Does Faraday's 180 on Furcolow OR my consistent defence of Furcolow before and after Faraday's vote have a scum or town motivation? And is either scummy enough to negate the other head's behaviour?

3

-Is it a significant scumtell that Faraday voted before discussing it with me in the QT or waiting for me to wake up?

4

-Is it scummy that Faraday didn't think of how it would look for an account to vote for a player it had just defended before (even if new information had come about)?

5

-Is it scummy that I contradicted him in the thread in order to enforce my own beliefs and/or do damage control?

6

-What scum agenda would be furthered by our switching back and forth like that within a day?

7

-Do you think I've secretly been pretending to be Faraday the whole time so as to fool people?

And maybe Faraday should be the one explaining his own thought patterns and motivations.

But just going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

1

I actually already gave my initial impressions, here.

2

Guided questions are not your friend in this case.

3

If one individual playing under one account were to say "XXX is scum" and "XXX is town" for different reasons it would be called fence sitting; especially during the time that the Fuculow opinions were being thrown out. Just because there are two people on one account is not a free pass and does not excuse having contradictory reads.

4

Is it a significant scumtell? So you agree that it is a scumtell, just not a big one? Also, from everyone else's eyes, this is unprovable (although possibly likely since you two have drastically different timezones); but still, this isn't a solid defense.

5

He should have thought about it, since we had this exact conversation at the end of post game discussion in the game he modded.

6

Yes. The admittance to doing "damage control" is especially scummy. What damage were you controlling and why did it need your immediate attention without consulting with Faraday first.

7

Like I said, fence sitting; which has more scum motivation than town motivation.

As I said in my previous post, I don't think you (Mina) would maliciously game a hydra that way; but with this recent post I'm starting to believe that it was an unexpected byproduct of being a scum hydra in different time zones.

Except that's not really what happened, is it?

That is exactly what happened: your account flip flopped reads on a lightning rod at the time. I don't think you intended it to occur that way but your defense and guided questions for our consumption and direction is inherently scummy. It's like you got busted for something you don't think you should have been busted for.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? AS SOON AS I UNVOTE MY BANDWAGON PEOPLE STEAL IT?

I'm not sure I understand you, but are you basically saying the grave robber will rob two graves each night and thus have no room for other night actions? (not sure how you're so certain there will be more than one death each night) My understanding of the rules is that you can only rob one grave each night, and the free action from robbing a grave is for any other action

It is not necessary to have two graves to rob every night. Every other night is enough, since Stalk and Murder have to happen on consecutive nights. Also it is in the rules, under Questions and Answers, that Rob Grave can be used multiple times per night.

Re: Feysal's post - are you talking about #504 or #539? I'm not sure I can see the logical inconsistency you're talking about. His position on Furcolow is that the mistake is such an unlikely cult gambit that it virtually confirms his townieness, even if it is logically possible he's scum, right? Where's the red flag?

#539 - look again, makes comment to Seacore saying "Furc is sooooo obv. town, amirite?" immediate next quote responses are agreements with MoI on his points against furc. Reads as defense while straddling lines for later possible shift. Not a fan of it.

Actually, Furpants_Tom has it right. I was defending Furcolow at the time, and that meant responding to the points brought against him by MoI. I read the first point as Furcolow making other posts while avoiding to answer who he warded, and I had to check to see this wasn't the case. I'd misunderstood what MoI was saying, and so I found the point inconclusive. The second point where Furcolow defended himself with timing was just silly, and of course I agreed when MoI called it comedy gold, but I still did not think it meant anything. For the record, I firmly believe Furcolow to be an Investigator, and though there exists a possibility of him having murderous plans, I find it remote.

I do have a question for you, though: What would you think if you rezzed Fate tonight, but Benmage was dead by morning?

Benmage won't be dead by morning. He heard no noise, and thus cannot be killed. If he died, he'd have lied about the noise.

SCUMSLIP

"you are town play is good Baltar"? Fatescum.
Maybe benmage was right and we should just lynch him(fate!)

You haven't made much sense before, but seriously, suspecting someone because of an obvious grammar mistake? Really.

As for xvart, I'll have to do an ISO on him to see if there's any basis for these suspicions I've seen on him.

Feysal, I agree with your last paragraph that the best idea is for Benmage just not to kill (but SSBF to resurrect Fate just in case Ben decides to be an idiot), but what was the point of writing yet

another

giant wall post with no suspects, but lots more "protown" looking theory?

My best strength is in game mechanics, and so I took a moment to analyze the whole Benmage/Fate situation and posted about it. That was all there was to it. As for actual scum hunting, I admit I've been lacking there. I've only had time for one read-through, and while I did get some reads from it, I really need to do an ISO on a few people to sort out my thoughts regarding them. You can expect to hear my thoughts on Seacore, Baby Spice and xvart in a few hours, once I read through their posts again.

no, i suspect him mainly because he is saying THIS PERSON IS TOWN
THAT PERSON IS TOWN
A THIRD PERSON IS TOWN

he needs to be lynched or killed and learn to start using the word probably, or something like likely to be, not inconclusive wording when IF he was an investigator he wouldn't know.

I'd like to line up lynches from whoever has the highest word count in this game, to whoever has the least.

Unfortunately that puts our basically confirmed Investigator Furcolow right at the top of the list

he said word count, not post count.


I am fairly sure Lost Butterfly was seriously just confused that DGB wasn't in El Goosuki
However, I don't feel as comfortable with my vote on xvart anymore. I will consider lynching Fate/Seacore/Baby Spice/LB, though, as they have been my scum reads all game

unvote

EBWOP: this confirms a few things from this Triglav post
1) they are admittedly lurking, and likely scum
2) they are attacking xvart for his stance on me, which is actually because he doesn't like me if anything. sure, he is being obstinate if he believes i am cult, and going murderer crossed my mind once. once. I then dismissed it because I actually like to

win

games.
3) triglav's vote is with who? oh, yeah, lost butterfly. and the "confirmed" townie he is trying to use to cast suspicion on xvart... me. I guess I just misread xvart as being too helpful to be town, but i guess that's just how he is. he must work in an office or something


basically, i'll be a 3rd voter. it should actually be looked at as a good thing. people say jeeps tells are outdated, and the 3rd and 4th voters on wagons bit actually sort of is, especially in a game this big (it was designed for 7 or 9?), but I'll 3rd vote to stop some town player from accruing 'scumpoints'

i guess it's not even quite the 3rd vote, it's like me re-issuing my first vote which was striked out
i know percy will put it at 3, but i only unvoted because noone was following me, and LB backed off of her OMGUS-like stance on me when she saw DGB post.

I feel like they are scum, and I did, and you may say "well, you said you were happier with their responses", which I was. I was happy that they were off my nuts. The reason they weren't attacking me anymore was more likely to be because they are scum who cannot get a mislynch on me moreso than town who are trying to play objectively.

vote: lost butterfly

i'm still pissed off on the flip floppiness on defending me and trying to get my lynched,
i'm still enraged that mina posted off of her account, and didn't get it fixed because it was scummy
i feel bad for faraday

[VP Baltar]

where were you at when i tried to wagon them for two days?
if you want to lynch LB, there are many lynches that indicate their alignment which are less hurtful on the town if LB is an investigator (baby spice, seacore, fate) in my opinion

im still fairly happy with a lynch on LB, i've been pushing that nearly all day.

I was still catching up. I didn't know what your reasons for wagoning were or if they had explained their flip-flopping yet. I'm here now though.

[Furcolow]

noone caught onto that, so i backed off to try to wagon a different cult people would actually believe me on.
im pretty happy where we're at, but xvart needs to learn to not just cast votes on people who vote him
he does that every game

[Furcolow]

i need to learn that myself, though, so pot kettle on me

[AurorusVox]

Yellow reads does irritate me.

VOTE: AurorusVox

Is this an RV? At this stage in the game?

VP, do you want Wicked's particular version of the Benmage plan, or will any do? I think mine is a pretty fine version, because it accounts for Fate and Ben being town/town, town/scum, and scum/town.

[VP Baltar]

VP, do you want Wicked's particular version of the Benmage plan, or will any do? I think mine is a pretty fine version, because it accounts for Fate and Ben being town/town, town/scum, and scum/town.

Your account is fine. I just need to hear it all laid out in one spot so I can understand better.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I also want to note that I don't like SSBF's vote on Bowser with the context of his previous observation on Trigalov. I am of the opinion that Trigalov is also guilty of minimal posting and providing content in the flurry and smoke screen of posting and fighting. SSBF notes that Trigalov is coasting and CSL has dropped in activity to melt suspicion (essentially the same outcome for both player slots) but his suspicions of Trigalov has more meat behind it in this post. I do recognize that SSBF has posted suspicion of Bowser earlier, but there is something in his recent post that just doesn't sit right with me and the way it was presented.

While neither are really scum hunting much and that I suspect both of them (Bowser majorly and Triglav slightly), Triglav is at least giving the illusion that he's scum hunting. Bowser isn't even doing that, which I find even more scum motivated as they are posting in other games, but avoiding this one. My suspicion on Bowser has more meat then you think it has.

Reasons why I suspect Triglav:
- Coasting through the game.
- Posting feels artifical.
- Complaining about the game speed (See below)

Now compare that to reasons why I suspect Bowser:
- Votes on Furcolow and Fate seems opportunistic and looks like trying to blend in to avoid suspicion.
- Lack of explanations for voting those two players.
- Votes on Furcolow and Fate weren't due to actual scumminess, but former due to bad history and latter due to anti-town behavior (Anti-town =/= scummy).
- Being a hypocrite when calling out Fate for terrible behavior in-game while not realizing that Benmage was guilty of the same uncivilization.
- Puts Furcolow high on his scum list, yet does not vote him after unvoting Fate, which looks like scum waiting until a bandwagon on him/someone else is solidfied so he can jump in and not worry about being suspicious for it.
- Parrots off other people, gives next to no analysis on the game.
- Recent lurking, despite lowered activity, can be explained due to them trying to avoid pressure on them. My vote on the hydra is due to all the reasons I've mentioned and that I want to make sure they are not forgotten as potential lynch candidates.

Based off what I've named out, I consider Bowser to be a much better lynch candidate then Triglav and the best chance for town to find scums today.

Everyone needs to stop posting till we catch up.

How about finding a way to catch up faster? We don't need to wait on one person to catch up just to play the game.

I do have a question for you, though: What would you think if you rezzed Fate tonight, but Benmage was dead by morning?

I mean, the whole plan would be kinda busted, and Fate wouldn't even be confirmed town.

Perfect cult way to ruin all our plans, right?

I would feel terrible that my rez kit would have gone to waste and that we've gained absolutely no information on anyone on this. It would also do two things:

1. Look at Fate more closely to see if I believe Benmage that he should die (Due to suspicion, not as a policy lynch).
2. Realize that there are other potential murderers in the game other then Benmage.

All town can hope for is that nothing goes wrong with the plan.

Nah, that Furc vote was all I needed. I've skimmed it, but I didn't understand. I think that anyone who dared attempt to vote for Furcolow SHOULD be put under some scrutiny because they're either: Scum or Stupid. When people started nitpicking Furc's "EL GOOSUKI BUT I TARGETED DRIPPERETH", I imagined scum partying in their Cult QT doing virgin sacrifices and having orgies thanking Cthulhu for an easy mislynch. (Note: I have no real knowledge of Lovecraftian stuff, just some shitty stock knowledge.)

Disagree that voting Furcolow = scum or stupid. Not everyone thought Furcolow was town before AurorusVox step in and realized that Furcolow's warding is most likely to come out of town. If there are scums on the now mostly dissipated Furcolow wagon, I would look at how they joined the wagon, not just if they joined the wagon.

Honestly, would people be interested in giant cases from me tomorrow night (I'd saved what I'd written on kunkstar and xvart last night, and there's stuff I'd like to call attention to from other players), or is everyone just overwhelmed by all the wall posting?

I'd actually be interested in knowing why xvart/kunkstar7 should be today's lynch. Right now I don't think they're scum and I'd like to know why otherwise.

It would prove that BenMage is town if he murders Fate. Any confirmed non-cult helps town, and by doing so hurts the cult. Do you not want to do something to help town?

No, it would only confirm that Benmage is non-cult. That doesn't mean he can't go murderer later on.

I'd like to line up lynches from whoever has the highest word count in this game, to whoever has the least.

Why do you think this is actually a good reason for voting someone?

This presumption is based on a concept that all the heads read and post indepednantly in order to generate more posts then a regular account.
We tend to get together in a QT to share thoughts in order to avoid too many "lol different head different opinion lol" posts.

I agree that hydra's should not have contradictory reads between each other, but it's not like you need to wait for everyone to agree on everything before getting all your thoughts out on the game. This also explains why I feel your posts are artifical.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? AS SOON AS I UNVOTE MY BANDWAGON PEOPLE STEAL IT?

Are you seriously that concern about people stealing your bandwagon? Why are you concern about people "stealing" your bandwagon?

[AurorusVox]

Righto. Here's the plan in all it's bullet-point (no pun intended) glory.

-The target of a kill receives different flavour depending on whether they're targeted by a murder or a ritual.
-Therefore if Fate lives until tomorrow, he can tell us whether he was murdered or ritualised, or not attacked at all. I believe the suggestion was that SSBF be the one to resuscitate Fate.
-If Fate says he was murdered, that clears Benmage as being non-cult (unless we believe that they are both cult together)
-If Fate says he was cult-killed, we lynch Benmage. We can then ascertain Benmage's role by graverob; if he was an investigator, we have caught Fate out as cult. Otherwise, we've lynched cult.
-If Fate says he wasn't attacked at all, we can check Benmage with the "Investigate" action N2 to see if he did in fact try to murder Fate. So long as Ben doesn't launder, he will be bloody if he murders; if he's bloody, he attempted a kill and we have caught Fate out as cult. If he's clean, then we've caught Ben out as cult.
-If Ben is confirmed non-cult, we can prevent him from going murderer with graverobs and by paying close attention to him. If his kill is prevented tonight, he can't win until N8 anyway.
-The only place where this plan fails is if they're both cult.

[xvart]

I can see where they are going with it. It's a null-point.

I can see where they are going, too; but I want them to spell out why they are asking; it might not be null.

3) triglav's vote is with who? oh, yeah, lost butterfly. and the "confirmed" townie he is trying to use to cast suspicion on xvart... me. I guess I just misread xvart as being too helpful to be town, but i guess that's just how he is. he must work in an office or something

Actually, I don't think you ever mentioned anything about me being too helpful. The nuts and the bolts of the basis for your vote was that you didn't like my attack on you.

im pretty happy where we're at, but xvart needs to learn to not just cast votes on people who vote him
he does that every game

I'm pretty sure that I was voting you looooong before you voted me. I voted for you in my first post. I do that every game? Have you actually read my games or something? Unless you try and reissue a case on me and it is relevant, I'd like to hear more details on your research post game.

Furcolow - can you respond to this:

The biggest thing I'll note is that my plan, however flawed it might be in your eyes, would absolutely guarantee you to not have insanities if you don't. You don't even suggest that it is okay with you for my plan, even though it would completely clear you of what I am accusing you of. Even a Cult Member would say, "go ahead and Book me" if he/she did not have an insanity.

xvart.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so the murder goes through before the ritual, meaning that Fate can state if he was attempted murdered. What if cult kill him on top of that just to make Ben look bad? I assume the rez would stop the murder first and then it would look like he was cult killed. Though I guess SSBF then claims if he rezzed or not....though the greater ritual would negate that too. I'm also still not sure on the significance of SSBF doing the rezzing, or does that not matter.

preview edit:

I can see where they are going, too; but I want them to spell out why they are asking; it might not be null.

Ok, I got ya. I think we're on the same page about it then.

[Furcolow]

And I've already pointed out two flaws in xvart's plan, so no, it's not a good idea.

But the flaws are flaws in determining if he is Cult; not determining if he is lying investigator going Murderer. The general consensus is that he is fairly cleared of being Cult, so that is almost a moot point. My point in my last post was that the plan was better when it could catch Cult and Murderer (if in the off chance the town's nonCult read of Furcolow is wrong). I still think it's a good plan because he is lying and most likely already has an insanity. Fate does not have an insanity. Commune will show if Fucolow is an Investigator going Murderer.

xvart.

too bad this is WIFOM because there is an insanity which delays a day

[Furcolow]

booking anyone doesnt prove ANYTHING because of that

[Triglav]

Getting a feeling that Triglav is trying to coast through this game. His latest posts sounds like a bit of mimicking off other people instead of actually providing his own thoughts in the game. When examining what they post, it feels more artifical then those of the other hydra, as if they are trying too hard to agree on everything instead of taking risks and posting their individual thoughts on the game. This is probably gut, but it's not giving me good feelings.

This paragraph in #779 is beautiful. And overall I get the awesometown feel from most if not all of #779.

going, "LOL, Lost Butterfly is scum because it's schizo and contradicts itself" is shallow analysis when two people will obviously never have the same opinions 100% of the time.

So you think you can just say this, and then suddenly you'll be able to backtrack as much as you want without suspicion?

Cool story bro.

In reaperCharlie's world;
SSBF is right for calling out Triglav for trying to get hydra heads to agree before posting thoughts to avoid backtracking/different reads.
Also
Lost Butterfly is scummy for having hydra heads post separate - having different reads- and then backtracking once consensus is reached.


@ReaperCharlie - you appear to either be lying about one of these beliefs or you are not getting your hydra heads to agree on opinions before you make them, which is it?
RC is on scum list now.

[Triglav's] initial vote on me had terrible justifications. Like I said, the list was going to be made, there is no doubt about that, so you voted for something that was not a scumtell. It's not a towntell, either;

but the fact that you don't assert with any sort of backup that I was going crazy to be the first person to post the list

in an attempt to look town by being helpful or that I needed crazy town points because of evidence A, B, and C does not help your case.

We...did claim that you did it right away to look townish.
Don't understand.
Want time/date stamp to show how quickly you volunteered to do it?

I find it strange that you did not include me on your "oddest furc commentors" since you have a vote on me and I have been one of the biggest "lynch Furcolow" commentors even after everyone else had moved on.

Page numbers, help make comments make more sense.
At time of your initial push you were part of giant crowd going "ooooh, furcolow = evil!"
Blends in.
Later you continued the push on pages that we read after that comment.
You stuck out.
Commented on it in post covering those pages.

Maybe it is because you have only posted three times, but are alluding that you might make contradictory reads in the future? I don't understand the basis for this comment, considering both player slots in totality of content presented.

Didn't like "lol, hydra difereing opinions" scumtell as presented.
Said as much.
Is called giving opinions on ongoing actions.
Don't see where Triglav claimed we would be doing this sort of contradiction in future.
If we did wouldn't think it was scummy.

Everyone needs to stop posting till we catch up.

How about finding a way to catch up faster? We don't need to wait on one person to catch up just to play the game.

How about you don't quote the part from that same post where we claim will catch up today?
Serious face is serious.
Why trying so hard?

[Triglav]

Also, Triglav is caught up now.
Should manage to stay topical and sexy for rest of game.

[AurorusVox]

Ok, so the murder goes through before the ritual, meaning that Fate can state if he was attempted murdered. What if cult kill him on top of that just to make Ben look bad? I assume the rez would stop the murder first and then it would look like he was cult killed. Though I guess SSBF then claims if he rezzed or not....though the greater ritual would negate that too. I'm also still not sure on the significance of SSBF doing the rezzing, or does that not matter.

That's where it gets a little grey. I do have a way around it, but I'm not sure it's considered ethical. I'm going to PM the mod to find out and then if it's okay, I'll say what it is.

In the meantime I've been trying to figure out an ethical way around it. This was where I started;
#1
- Investigate Ben to see if he's bloody, since the ritual does not cause blood
-The problem here is if he picks the mutilation insanity, which always makes him appear bloody.

There is another way, but it involves a lot of insanities;
#2
- Someone robs the grave of the lynched and searches for the occult books tonight, giving them 1 insanity
- They then rob another grave N2 (this resolves before they commune with Ben), getting them 2 insanities (in total)
- We instruct Ben to cower on N2, which should put him on 3 insanities (stalk + murder + cower).
- When the commune checks the insanities, if Ben is the cult, he will have, at most, 2 insanities (ritual + cower)
- If the commune returns a "not more insane" result, Ben is cult.
- Only problem with this is if Ben is cult and picked Denial as his first insanity. Well, and the fact that two players will now be on 3 insanities...

If we do both simultaneously, then we minimise the risk of cult backing each other up.

[Furcolow]

unless he crafted 3 fetishes
therefore it's WIFOM

[AurorusVox]

=_=" I forgot about the triple threat of fetishes. AND I guess a fellow cultist could pass him a fetish of himself. Right, well #2 is off the table then.

Luckily, I've discovered a way to make #1 work that is still ethical.

We instruct Ben to launder N4 and investigate him for blood that night too, to see if he picked Mutilation. The results should be Bloody N3 and Not Bloody N4. Is there a way around that?

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, Triglav

should manage to stay sexy

for rest of game.

We are

Adel, Albert B. Rampage, Zorblag, and Ythan

(twice).

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[Furcolow]

=_=" I forgot about the triple threat of fetishes. AND I guess a fellow cultist could pass him a fetish of himself. Right, well #2 is off the table then.

Luckily, I've discovered a way to make #1 work that is still ethical.

We instruct Ben to launder N4 and investigate him for blood that night too, to see if he picked Mutilation. The results should be Bloody N3 and Not Bloody N4. Is there a way around that?

cult can have res kits
res kits can cause blood
WIFOM on #1 too

[Feysal]

Finished with my ISO on Seacore, Baby Spice and xvart. Results below.

Seacore

After reading through his posts, I don't get the wagon on him any more. All he did was poke his nose into the Fate/Benmage train wreck, and got some of it on him. The initial wagon on him was much ado about nothing, in my opinion. He did not even involve himself much in the argument, and none of his few posts on that topic show any flailing.

That said, he has not been very active in scum hunting so far, but then neither have I. He has been suspicious of Furcolow, lately over a different interpretation of what Percy posted, and he has expressed doubts about Benmage. Finally, he has been away for the weekend. Not much to go on there. He could be our lynch some day to come, but I'm sure there is a better target here and now.

xvart

The case on xvart is that he has been tunnelled on Furcolow, while keeping a list of claims, as if to appear pro-town. I had a thought that Furcolow might have lied about warding and plan to become a murderer, but I admit the possibility is remote. xvart on the other hand has repeatedly accused Furcolow of lying. Only recently he has begun to consider other players. I also wonder why he picked the players he did for this scrutiny. You guessed it - both Triglav and Lost Butterfly had voted him.

Then there is the fact that both he and Baby Spice claimed to have warded MoI. That caught Plum's attention, and though she was vague about it, she seemed to think xvart could have copied the target of Baby Spice's claim. There could be something to this, since xvart has avoided claiming who he warded, and he has committed a number of minor slips.

...

Baby Spice

- No Noises (308),

Warded

(308)
...

xvart

-

Heard Noises

(52),

Warded

(52)

I only posted the wards for the people who claimed them. Baby Spice also did not claim her ward target. At the time (and even now) I didn't know if claiming the ward target is in the town's best interest. I have no problem claiming my ward target. I do think we should come to a consensus about warding targets, but I'll defer to the setup freaks in the room on this one.

In fact, Baby Spice had claimed to have warded MoI in #308. Did xvart simply miss it, or did he want to avoid having to claim the same ward target as someone else? It is odd that he noticed Baby Spice claiming to have warded, but not her target in the very same post.

I warded MoI

because of his play and smarts in aCoK large theme, and his thought/thinking in that game, which would be beneficial in this game due to the complexities.

...

I didn't immediately claim because I knew that Ward interfered with Craft Fetish and Pass Fetish and the negative I was thinking of about claiming was if we claimed who we Warded then the cult would know not to Pass Fetish to that person in the night, but now I realize that that couldn't happen because they would have failed on the crafting to begin with.

When xvart finally claimed, it was only after Lost Butterfly (as Mina) had called attention to his reluctance to do so. As for his reasoning, it is oddly focused on the cult, when warding would also stop murderers.

I do not know what he did last night, but I do not believe he Warded last night. I would never presume to understand why Furcolow does what he does and why he says what he says. A lot of players I can attribute motivations or postulate why they might do something; but Furcolow is so far off the reservation it is fruitless.

...

So seven cult members can craft a fetish of every single player in the game by roughly the conclusion of N2 (considering there were four wards N0) without gaining an insanity? Hmmmm...

Possibly contradicting himself here. He says there were four wards, but one of them was Furcolow, and he does not believe Furcolow warded?

Andrius

- No Noises (272), Did Not Ward (272)
...

Where did this come from? Only a few posts before this I said that I had not seen Andrius explicitly claim whether he heard noise.

Baby Spice

The case on Baby Spice seems to have been about her slips in calling Benmage both town and anti-town. Her explanation was that she considered Benmage to be an Investigator, but that his actions were anti-town, and he may have been planning to go Murderer. Maybe that's it. She is not the only one to have expressed herself in a strange fashion. Have a look at this gem from ReaperCharlie for instance:

Benmage on the other hand is decidedly anti-town, regardless of his alignment.

But, anti-town is an alignment, right? Whatever, I think it is clear he meant the same thing as Baby Spice, that Benmage may be an Investigator but is not acting like an Investigator should. Everyone makes stupid mistakes sometimes, and I don't see why the cult would be more prone to make slips like this.

But this is not all there is to suspect Baby Spice for. As with xvart, she has claimed to have warded the same target as him. She was also the first to claim her target, well before xvart. But she could still be cult despite this. If she or her fellow cultists had tried and failed to craft a fetish of MoI, she could have used that as basis for her claim, knowing MoI had been warded by someone.

Finally, she is the last player still tunnelled on Furcolow, and has not pursued anyone else so far. This might change though, once she catches up with posts.

---

All this said, I'll continue to reserve my vote. I have many other players to look at, and someone might be more deserving of lynch than any of the three above. For now, xvart looks dodgiest.

[AurorusVox]

We instruct Ben to launder N4 and investigate him for blood that night too, to see if he picked Mutilation. The results should be Bloody N3 and Not Bloody N4. Is there a way around that?

cult can have res kits
res kits can cause blood
WIFOM on #1 too

EBWOP: I meant "launder N3" and therefore Bloody N2 and Not Bloody N3.

---

Hmm. "All Cultists who selected Participate in the Ritual gain an Insanity. If the target was not Murdered, they also become Bloody, even if the kill was prevented by Resuscitate."

Mod: Is the "they" in this sentence the Cultists, or the target?

---

@Furc;

- The res kit only makes you bloody if you protect someone from a kill
- You become bloody AFTER the killing action resolves
- The investigate action resolves before the killing action, i.e. before the resuscitator has become bloody
- Ben can't get bloody from a res kit before he's been checked by investigate unless he searched for one N0 and uses it to protect Fate (which would leave Fate alive, and make this entire back up plan unnecessary)
- If he's bloody and Fate is dead, he got bloody on N1, but not from resuscitate
- If the answer to my above question is "the target" then this has to come from murdering. If the answer is "the Cultists," then we're screwed and I might just cry myself to sleep

[Fate]

Lost Butterfly's "ZOMG WHY WOULD SCUMHYDRA DO THIS AND CONTRADICT?" is really scummy in and of itself. Why would a Town Hydra overdefend their contradictions so much?

Yeah you're two different people, but you are ONE PLAYER SLOT. If you are a town hydra and want to be successful and not lynched, GET YOUR FUCKING READS TOGETHER BEFORE YOU POST. HAVING TO READ TWO DIFF PLAYERS FOR ONE SLOT IS ABSURD AND ANTI-TOWN.

Right now you're just two different players posting under the same name, and that isn't what hydraing is about. You need to have direction and focus, which helps people get a read on you, aka PRO-TOWN. Being schizo may not have all the "scum motivation in the world" but its ANTI-TOWN behavior, such as if any other player kept switching reads from post to post and was like "LOL WHY WOULD I SWITCH READS SO QUICKLY AS SCUM!??!"

[Furcolow]

so now you've regressed into openly coaching?
i thought you were better than that, fate

[hitogoroshi]

Coaching isn't really a tell in a game where scum daytalk...

[Fate]

Bowser only has one vote, which is disappointing.

Baby Spice claiming ward that early (before xvart) gives her town points because I don't see her claiming ward if her fetish crafting failed (in such an instance as a Xvarttown flip would indite her).

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


LB HAS A WAGON.

LEZ GO

VOTE: Lost Butterfly