Mini #1007 (Game Over)

[redtail896]

Why do you estimate that. He said tomorrow morning on Friday. I assume that means Saturday morning.

[AlmasterGM]

The whole "unvote to prevent quickhammer" move is one of the silliest things that happens on this site. Quickhammering is scummy. Unless it's lylo, why would we want to remove a chance for someone to out themselves as obvscum?

[Equinox]

Why do you estimate that. He said tomorrow morning on Friday. I assume that means Saturday morning.

Espeonage is in Australia. Countdown was based on his morning.

The whole "unvote to prevent quickhammer" move is one of the silliest things that happens on this site. Quickhammering is scummy. Unless it's lylo, why would we want to remove a chance for someone to out themselves as obvscum?

Quick hammering is not necessarily scummy; I've seen town do it enough times to give me pause. I'll save that for post-game, though, because theory isn't relevant to

me lynching you

the game right now.

---

I'm glad the day hasn't closed yet. I suddenly remembered this important piece during a meeting, and I feared that I wouldn't be able to present it in Day 6. Well, redtail896 (or VRK, but this is addressed to redtail896), I present this to you now, and I hope you'll consider it overnight.

Remember the exchange between you and Hoopla following her gunsmith claim on Day 3? Also, remember Hoopla's explanation of her PGO claim on Day 1?

One of the scum's primary goals is to stir town's pot -- cast enough doubt, suspicion, and confusion to get town lynching themselves. That exchange with the gun result all but confirmed redtail896 as town (and I was stupid enough to

dismiss

it for an entire day; sorry, Hoopla and fellow town and spectators). Any decent observation would reveal that. Yet why do we have this...?

First of all, sorry Hoopla, but your gambit was pretty obv. If I were mafia running against it, I would've played into it instead of just fakeclaiming (or at least strongly considered doing so). Chances of gunsmith + cop is low, and claiming Vig when there haven't been any shots is also weird. Thus, I don't buy your argument that redtail is cleared. If he's scum, simply protesting that he didn't have a gun and praying for a diversion seems like the optimal play.

AlmasterGM tried to cast doubt on the results of Hoopla's gambit.

That gambit was absolutely poisonous to scum. Being forced to keep Hoopla around to kill town with pinging scumdar (AGar) and the doctor (drmyshottyizsik) was painful enough, and now Hoopla just gave town a confirmed person for them to trust. There's only so many kills that can be done on a single night.

Therefore, the first step would be to somehow deny the results and make town suspect redtail896. AlmasterGM almost succeeded, except that I had to go reread Day 3 and then look at the timestamps. No dice, bud. WIFOMing town with a non-action on Night 4 was a nice touch, too (and if it was an accident, well, it almost worked in your favor).

AlmasterGM is scum.

redtail896, I may have played like a wishy-washy idiot, but almost every thought that I've had about this game, I put in a post. The two times that I have purposefully withheld information, they were predictions for Night 5 actions. The three of you know where I stand on everything at all times. AlmasterGM has not; look at his Day 5 posts. The post where he chose to reveal information, he did it in a manner that left room for WIFOM. Otherwise, he opted to ask the rest of us for information instead of revealing his own thoughts. If that's not pro-scum, I don't know what is.

I can understand using the tactic of not revealing stuff in MyLo to keep scum in the dark, but there is no excuse for that when the rest of the town have already done so. The ship is already sinking; why keep one's lips shut any longer?

I know where VRK stands. I know where you stand. Where does AlmasterGM stand? "Well, maybe it's Equinox, but there's that possibility that it's redtail896 WIFOMing us all." BS. You and VRK have solid opinions about who is scum. I have a solid opinion about who is scum. AlmasterGM is slippery in this regard.

I apologize for writing yet another essay, but I really don't want to be lynched when we have obvscum staring at us in the face.

[Espeonage]

Sorry, for the delay. I went to sleep for an nap a bit before I was going to close it. (was supposed to close it at ten but I got woken up early and went back to bed at about 9) Anyways.....

As the sun started setting the townsfolk were still arguing. Some though that they had seen enough killing and opted to wait and see what would happen. And somehow in the confusion and timewasting that went on they got their wish.

48 hours for night this time.

[Espeonage]

As the sun rose today those who were still alive hoped with all their hearts that noone had bitten the bullet. However an hour before sunrise a gunshot broke the silence of the early morning. While it was true that he didn't bite the bullet he couldn't stop it from piercing his heart.

Redtail - Vanilla Townie - Killed Night 5

You have two weeks until deadline. Have fun.

[Equinox]

Gee, that helps my case a ton.

Scum, however, is still AlmasterGM. I've presented the evidence for why I believe, and strongly so, that AlmasterGM is the last mafioso.

VOTE: AlmasterGM

Vel-Rahn Koon, I probably don't need to tell you, but please consider all of the evidence before laying down the vote. redtail896 himself admitted there isn't much to the ConfidAnon case except active lurking (which ConfidAnon does practically everywhere), and the Equinox case is based on my flip-flopping in the game, to which I have already responded.

AlmasterGM cannot respond to the points I've raised against him because I've pinned down his motivations already. There's no pro-town motivation to sowing seeds of doubt about redtail896's response to Hoopla's gunsmith gambit. There's no pro-town motivation to lurking for all of Day 5 (and telling us ahead of time that he would be doing so) while the rest of us hunted for the last scumbag. Not to mention that he went trigger-happy when he thought I was calling him scum here when that was not the case (though I admit this is relatively weak evidence; still psychologically interesting).

All right, AlmasterGM, try to explain all that.

...because I don't think you can.

[AlmasterGM]

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, the vote comes down already. You don't even wait for me to respond. Fortunately, I know why. It's because all of your arguments are objectively false. Yes, objectively. It's not even "he said, she said." They are just Not. True.

Unfortunately, I have like infinite work to do right now, so me proving that is not happening until tomorrow night at the earliest, Wednesday at the latest.

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. I am actually laughing right now this "case" is so bad. I can't waaaait to respond to it.

[Equinox]

It's going to come down to a cross-vote, AlmasterGM, with Vel-Rahn Koon deciding the hammer. No need to delay the inevitable.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I hate being the deciding vote. I need to do a thorough re-read to make sure I get this right so give me a few days. I will try to get it done sooner rather than later, but I have to teach two classes this week, I have my son's cub scout meeting, and we're going up to Blacksburg to watch the VT vs. WFU football game Saturday. Please be patient.


Vel

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Honestly it's not surprising that Redtail was the NK - I'm surprised we had the No Lynch vs. a Redtail death. No matter. AGM I look forward to your case.

[AlmasterGM]

Urglklegush I stayed up until 5am last night studying for my midterm. I really need sleep. Post tomorrow.

[Equinox]

Prod dodge. I have nothing to say.

[Equinox]

Actually, hold that thought. I have a present. ...only because it's LyLo.

My posting of this spreadsheet is alignment-neutral.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry guys, I'm not getting a read done until Sunday, earliest. I will have thoughts up by Monday at the latest so that there's time to discuss before deadline.

[Equinox]

I think I'm due for a prod... so hi.

AlmasterGM forgot to post his V/LA in this game, but he's away until Sunday.

[Equinox]

I just had a thought in the shower.

Vel-Rahn Koon not hammering after 6 days should confirm that he is town.

AlmasterGM needs to put a vote down. He really doesn't have to wait until he has time to build a case because the answer should have been, "If it's not me and it's not VRK, it must be Equinox." It'd be nice if he can bring that case ASAP so we can close this game, but if he doesn't have time, slap the vote down first with some sort of line to it and then present the case when there is time.

Remind me to post a game when it's over... if it ends before this game does.

[Equinox]

Triple post to say

V/LA until October 20

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Equinox

Thanks for pointing out the V/LA, I did forget to post it here. POST COMING FOR REAL TODAY, SERIOUSLY. Nobody worry, we have plenty of time to close this out.

[AlmasterGM]

That gambit was absolutely poisonous to scum. Being forced to keep Hoopla around to kill town with pinging scumdar (AGar) and the doctor (drmyshottyizsik) was painful enough, and now Hoopla just gave town a confirmed person for them to trust. There's only so many kills that can be done on a single night.

Therefore, the first step would be to somehow deny the results and make town suspect redtail896. AlmasterGM almost succeeded, except that I had to go reread Day 3 and then look at the timestamps. No dice, bud. WIFOMing town with a non-action on Night 4 was a nice touch, too (and if it was an accident, well, it almost worked in your favor).

1) Equinox is reading WAY to deep into this. My analysis of the redtail scenario was 100% objectively legitimate. In the event that redtail had been scum, playing into Hoopla's claim by denying having a gun would have absolutely been the correct play. I already gave my analysis why.

Chances of gunsmith + cop is low, and claiming Vig when there haven't been any shots is also weird.

Equinox is putting some REALLY heavy spin on this arg to fabricate this "scum motivation." Occam's razor this garbage - all I did was analyze the situation at hand and come to a series of potential conclusions.

2) The argument has no logical followup. I never tried to get redtail lynched, and I considered him town for most of the time after. This "scum motivation" is meaningless because it never goes anywhere.

here's no pro-town motivation to lurking for all of Day 5

With regard to the first post, I gave a very clear reason for not posting much and justified it. My actions were the objectively optimal play. We should NOT have been feeding the scum information then - there was simply no reason to do so.

This is the second time Equinox is putting heavy spin on objectively correct plays in order to make them look scummy. He is trying to mind-trick people into overthinking the situation here ... which, if we are going to play the scum-motiviation game here, makes perfect sense because he is the obv-lynch, so he NEEDS to create confusion in order to slip by as scum.

Where does AlmasterGM stand? "Well, maybe it's Equinox, but there's that possibility that it's redtail896 WIFOMing us all."

Massive misrep. Equinox blatantly CUTS OFF THE PART OF THE POST WHERE I EXPLICTLY STATE REDTAIL IS "99.99% not scum." This is the educational equivalant of citing an article and then cutting all the negative "not" style words out to make it say the exact opposite of what it's supposed to. The fact that Equniox is misrepping so hard here shows how desparate he is to get me mislynched.

...and that's the end of Equinox's "case." It had lots of pretty blue font, nice links, and strong language, but broken down it was a lot of misquoting and overthinking.

NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: DON'T LET EQUINOX USE THIS POST, #919, AS AMMO. I know what Equinox's play is going to be here ... he is going to try and engage in a really complicated back and forth with me, attempt to win, and then say that it proves I'm scum. THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Equinox had the WHOLE THREAD to read and he only found those two crappy points. Don't let him blow them up into something more.

So, we've already seen that Equniox is scum because of the desparate way he's attacking me, but in case we aren't sold on that, here's some other random independent arguments against him.

1) Hoopla said we should vote ConfidAnon as her dying wish. Her vote analysis was SPOT ON about EVERYTHING else in this game, there is NO REASON to believe it's failing now.
2) Equinox misrepping the shit out of me.
3) The no-kill making perfect sense coming from him - he blabbed for an eternity yesterday (when we should've just insta-no-lynched), showing a clear desire to extend the day before he submitted the kill.
4) THE FACT THAT HE REPLACED CONFIDANON, WHO WAS SCUMMY AS HELL AND WE ALL KNOW IT.
5) SEE NUMBER #4.

And then there's also the other random "lolwuts" that have to be true if I'm scum - like the fact that I would have been pwnbussing Zach and had been CALLING G&H SCUM FOR, LIKE, ETERNITY.

God, this is SO clear-cut. VRK, it's up to you. I'm a busy person, so I'm going to stop typing now, but do let me know if you have any questions or (for some reason) want me to go hunt down more evidence. I don't think it's necessary, but whatever floats your boat. I know Equinox had to try REALLY HARD on his re-read to find dirt on me 'cause he's scum, but in this case, it shouldn't really be that difficult because why is is scum is yelling at you starting on this VERY PAGE.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I'm here still working on the read through. Will get something up soon

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Equinox, clarify this statement for me please:

Also, I'm curious how much everybody thinks we should care about Hoopla's tracker result on KKN.

It's a "meh" thing for me. If scum can choose who submits the kill -- and apparently they can -- No Action results are null.

[Equinox]

Equinox, clarify this statement for me please:

Also, I'm curious how much everybody thinks we should care about Hoopla's tracker result on KKN.

It's a "meh" thing for me. If scum can choose who submits the kill -- and apparently they can -- No Action results are null.

A moment of incredible stupidity (on my part).

My thought process at the time was when Hoopla did the track, there were two scum, so KKN could have easily shifted the submission responsibility to G&H, who was already under attack for posting huge IoA/IioA walls and was likely to get lynched after Zachrulez. With that in mind, I decided that Hoopla's track result probably didn't mean anything.

I'll look/respond/laugh at AlmasterGM's wall later.

[AlmasterGM]

A moment of incredible stupidity (on my part).

So when I make an objectively correct play that has some extremely remote chance of having sum motivation, I'm auto-scum, but when you make an OBJECTIVELY BAD PLAY with LOTS OF SCUM MOTIVATION, we are supposed to just write it off as "you being stupid."

Nice double standard.

[Equinox]

A moment of incredible stupidity (on my part).

So when I make an objectively correct play that has some extremely remote chance of having sum motivation, I'm auto-scum, but when you make an OBJECTIVELY BAD PLAY with LOTS OF SCUM MOTIVATION, we are supposed to just write it off as "you being stupid."

Nice double standard.

Incorrect. You're auto-scum because I'm a townie, and I'm pretty damn certain VRK is town when he didn't hammer straightaway. That leaves... ah! YOU.

And the last dude who claimed I was using double standards was actually a mafia goon, so nice try, bro.

Seriously, though, AlmasterGM cannot say he has no responsibility here, either. He pushed a lynch on KKN ("How would KKN have just thought of G&H's personality out of the blue? Gotta be insider information!") that was disproved waaaaay back on Day 1 when G&H posted about his playing style.