The Lord of the Rings Mafia - GAME OVER (KABOOM)

[SlySly]

Rewq is town. Or a savant:

3. If Gandalf is town, I can see there being many scum on this wagon because they are trying to hit town. If he is town though, the scum are probably trying to pace out when the votes are so they don't all go on at once, so it doesn't look like they are all bandwagoning at the same time. If he is scum, I could see all of the scum jumping on it to try and get themselves town points by lynching a scum member as a sacrifice. However, if he is scum and this is happening, he is probably a minor scum role, and therefore not the best lynch for today. This is why I am not voting him. I will vote him near deadline if there is no-one better that I see to lynch.

This one. It's so pure in its madness its town.

Really read that. It took me a time or two.

I did.

Paraphrase of rewq's quote:

If gandalf is town:
1. Many scum on wagon because scum want to hit town. (Craplogic. Scum would probably like to hit scum as much as town, if not more.)
2. The scum are trying to pace votes so they don't all vote together to prevent appearance of scum band wagoning. (If there is truth to this, he outs himself as scum in the last two sentences of his quote.)

If gandalf is scum:
1. rewq could see scum aggressively attacking for town points via lynching scum buddy as sacrifice. (Crap logic. Bus attempts are likely when scum buddy lynch is imminent, but I don't find it likely that scum would be too eager to sacrifice their numbers on D1.)
2. if gandalf actually is scum, since he is being sacrificed, therefore he must be minor scum and not a good lynch candidate. (Craplogic. If scum is definitely discovered on D1, rank is not a determining factor. If you think you've got scum pegged on D1, or any other day for that matter, you push for it.)

To me, even in clearer words, this still seems more like fluff than madness.

[SpyreX]

"all of the scum"

[Bilbo Baggins]

Day 2 Vote Count 1

rewq455

- 3 - Katy, Katsuki, SlySly

Katsuki

- 4 - Wraith, VasudeVa, inHimshallibe, Edge

SlySly

- 1 - Glork

Mariyta

- 1 - Nero Cain

Not Voting

- 10 - rewq455, Mariyta, SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum, bv310, zwetschenwasser, a2rudeboy, Dekes, jenniwren, Locke Lamora

Nineteen stand gathered, Ten votes will lynch (and nine will no-Lynch).

[inHimshallibe]

"all of the scum"

OK, good, you really are town. I had my doubts because of some previously vague suspicions of yours, but you're bringing the heat now.

Carry on, this one would be "my bad."

[Nero Cain]

@Nero: What do Kats' lists have to do with LMP? He focused on them quite a bit. They were a large part of his case against her. It would be unwise to ignore them completely.

Maybe I didn't make it clear what I meant. LMP was going after Kats b/c of putting herself on her list. Yes LMP, myself, Jenni and prolly a few others thought her list was arbitrary yes but none of us were going after them (people on her list) and there's no reason to until she flips scum. Maybe I can't explain it well enough but I don't see the point in going after list members when the main suspicion was on her, not the list members.

What the fuck do you mean "why is RC head still stuck on day 1" IS THAT A RHETORICAL "LOL IMPOSTINZ" FUCKING QUESTION OR ARE YOU JUST AN IDIOT?

I find it quite rude that you call me an idiot when its you who can't fucking read. RC, who's on all the damn time, spent the entire 929 (aside from your vote on SlySly) commenting on day 1 posts.

[Edge]

ON THE OTHER SIDE EDGE:

I need some help with Mari. She's not saying a lot but the more I read the more I don't like what she says. I need the golden bullet for this over Kat.

OH SO THATS WHY YOURE NOT VOTING.

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, THEN MAYBE WE CAN TALK.

[VasudeVa]

I missed LMPs last post. I redact my 'I think LMP was the scumkill' point. There is 100% scum in Katsuki/Mariyta/rewq.

Hell, I won't be surprised if these three actually are scum. I studied LMPs ISO, and his reasons on attacking these three are legit. Although from his posts, I feel like it is more likely that he targetted Katsuki, second Mariyta.

I can confirm SpyreX's point that a2rudeboy has been posting elsewhere but not here. I'm in another on going game with him. (Although, you really only have to click a2rudeboy's profile -> check posts to see but w/e.)

Katsuki's soo obviously scum right now. I remember when I was scum against Vi, I was pitifully attempting to discredit an obvtown player by asking ridiculously unimportant questions. Her incessent questioning of Glork's SpyTown read reads as that.

(Disclaimer: Yes, I did ask Glork too~ but I wasn't needlessly pressy with it.)

Glork can't sincerely believe Spyrex is town. I don't believe it.

I'd like an explanation of this please. Why do you think Glork is being insincere?

BTW, I'm toying with the idea that VV is the one who bused Weird. This really only becomes plausible if Kats flips non-Mordor. VV's "get off of Weird and onto Kats" then "gah, fine, we'll lynch Weird" post reads "I'm going to try to get the wagon moving in a different direction, but if it doesn't work, I want to look like the swing vote."

Why don't you help me lynch Katsuki so you can find out?

rewq455 - 3 -

Katy, Katsuki, SlySly

Katsuki - 4 - Wraith, VasudeVa, inHimshallibe, Edge

Waitaminute...I think I've seen this somewhere before~

gandalf5166 - 4 -

Katsuki,

WeirdRa

, SlySly, Katy

Mariyta - 1 - bv310
Nero Cain - 2 - jenniwren, Locke Lamora
Katsuki - 2 - Nero Cain, MemoriaEsponia

WeirdRa - 13 - Mariyta, Edge, Glork, SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum, inHimshallibe, VasudeVa, Wraith, LynchMePls, gandalf5166, Dekes, Drippereth, rewq455

rewq4 - 1 - zwetschenwasser

THE PLOT THICKENS.

[jenniwren]

I've been working through the thread backwards, forwards, and sideways today to try to put together the pieces and patterns from D1.

It's pretty obvious that there was an extra death last night, but I think the extra death was NOT LMP. I think ME and LMP were the scum targets, Gandalf was vigged, and Drippereth was protected by a CPR doctor (the flavor that said he wasn't supposed to die because he was pure makes me feel that someone protected him and killed him instead.). LMP was a one-shot weak doctor, which makes me think he would have waited to try his ability, and he was also a power player, which is why he suspected he might be killed and left a list. His reads give us something to work with today, especially since ME had some of the same reads, but...

Today (D2), Mariyta said this:

"Filled with arrows" screams orc (or Urak-hai), IMO, which would be scum, not vig. Bleeding to death could be scum or vig, depending on who did it. I haven't figured that one out yet.

If it was a Morgul blade, it would cauterize immediately

.

I googled Morgul blade and found this: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Morgul-blade. Note that the Morgul blade is the weapon of the ringwraiths, and it is a poisonous blade that corrupts its victims. (Thanks for that, Mariyta.) By the way...what makes you think being stabbed by a Morgul blade would specifically cauterize? Why be so specific about the blade of the ringwraiths and NOT point out that "corruption" is more likely the cause of death by Morgul blade than by normal blade?

LMP and ME both found Mariyta scummy, and LMP focused a lot of attention on the relationship between Mari and Kats. Reading Mari's ISO shows that she dismissed and/or deflected as much of the suspicion about Kats as she could get away with, and TODAY, with LMP's list on the table and under scrutiny, acknowledges that she and Kats are his biggest suspects, but that she will be investigating Rewq and not Kats. Now, their relationship is only circumstantial, but her consistency in not committing to a stance about Kats even today and her problems with VV because of his focus on Kats is questionable at

best

.

Finally, Mari is a bit contradictory in some of her posts.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO.

I'm not 100% sure gandalf is town, but since the fake-claim, he's seemed mostly town. I don't think his "slip" was as telling as others seem to think it is.

We can lynch gandalf tomorrow if nothing better presents itself (though I have a few other folks in mind).

I have to ask why Gandalf would be the best lynch of D2 if you think he's town, or that nothing better would present itself?

Vote: Mariyta

In addition to these things, Mari said this in response to be questioned about the Gollum/SK connection:

inHim, I haven't watched the movies or read the books in a year or so. My apologies for not being absolutely 100% on the ball all the time.

...yet she remembers the ringwraiths use the Morgul blade? I saw TTT seven times in theaters, ROTK six times in theaters, all three several times on TV, read all the books, presented an academic paper at an professional academic conference, and I didn't remember that. Someone who forgets Gollum doesn't randomly call out the Morgul blade as the weapon of choice for ringwraiths.

[Mariyta]

@Spyre: What don't you like about my posts?

Today (D2), Mariyta said this:

"Filled with arrows" screams orc (or Urak-hai), IMO, which would be scum, not vig. Bleeding to death could be scum or vig, depending on who did it. I haven't figured that one out yet.

If it was a Morgul blade, it would cauterize immediately

.

I googled Morgul blade and found this: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Morgul-blade. Note that the Morgul blade is the weapon of the ringwraiths, and it is a poisonous blade that corrupts its victims. (Thanks for that, Mariyta.) By the way...what makes you think being stabbed by a Morgul blade would specifically cauterize? Why be so specific about the blade of the ringwraiths and NOT point out that "corruption" is more likely the cause of death by Morgul blade than by normal blade?

Frodo was stabbed with a Morgul blade and it cauterized immediately. He didn't bleed. I was actually wrong about some of this. Not all ringwraiths have a Morgul blade. It's only the Witch-king. So the others carry regular blades. I also didn't know at that time that "corruption" was an effect. I knew they turned into ringwraiths if the poison spread, but I didn't know it was specifically called "corruption."

LMP and ME both found Mariyta scummy, and LMP focused a lot of attention on the relationship between Mari and Kats. Reading Mari's ISO shows that she dismissed and/or deflected as much of the suspicion about Kats as she could get away with, and TODAY, with LMP's list on the table and under scrutiny, acknowledges that she and Kats are his biggest suspects, but that she will be investigating Rewq and not Kats. Now, their relationship is only circumstantial, but her consistency in not committing to a stance about Kats even today and her problems with VV because of his focus on Kats is questionable at

best

.

You are absolutely right that I didn't take a stance on Kats. I couldn't read her. However, in light of what happened last night and the apparent breadcrumb by LMP, Kats is likely scum. I said I would be focusing on rewq before folks pointed out LMP's last post. As I've mentioned, I haven't re-read those folks yet, so I was going completely on memory at that point.

Finally, Mari is a bit contradictory in some of her posts.

Gandalf's "slip" is, as Edge put it, "careless, moronic town," IMO.

I'm not 100% sure gandalf is town, but since the fake-claim, he's seemed mostly town. I don't think his "slip" was as telling as others seem to think it is.

We can lynch gandalf tomorrow if nothing better presents itself

(though I have a few other folks in mind)

.

I have to ask why Gandalf would be the best lynch of D2 if you think he's town, or that nothing better would present itself?

This is what I would call a misrepresentation. You neglected the bolded part. Gandalf was a distraction and some of his actions were anti-town. He was lynchable IF AND ONLY IF no one better could be found (and I didn't think that would happen).

Vote: Mariyta

In addition to these things, Mari said this in response to be questioned about the Gollum/SK connection:

inHim, I haven't watched the movies or read the books in a year or so. My apologies for not being absolutely 100% on the ball all the time.

...yet she remembers the ringwraiths use the Morgul blade? I saw TTT seven times in theaters, ROTK six times in theaters, all three several times on TV, read all the books, presented an academic paper at an professional academic conference, and I didn't remember that. Someone who forgets Gollum doesn't randomly call out the Morgul blade as the weapon of choice for ringwraiths.

I didn't forget Gollum. I just wasn't thinking in terms of what characters would have done it. I was thinking about what players in the game would have done it. I remember "Morgul blade" because Aragorn sounds so awesome when he says it. That part occurs in Fellowship after Frodo is stabbed.

[jenniwren]

I neglected the bold part because you said you would be willing to lynch Gandalf; you said you had others in mind, but you still said you would be willing to lynch him. Seeing those three posts back to back seemed like, first, he was bad town; then,he's just mostly town; and finally, well, we'll lynch him. I also read the second part (the bolded part) as fence-sitting and distancing in case he turned out to be a mislynch.

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: Mari

Its more of the same and quick on the draw when jenni leaps out of the shadows for a strike. THERE IS A VOTE EDGE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION.

[Mariyta]

Unvote, Vote: Mari

Its more of the same and quick on the draw when jenni leaps out of the shadows for a strike. THERE IS A VOTE EDGE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION.

I don't understand what you mean. For the same reasons jenni posted, and because I answered jenni fairly quickly?

[Glork]

The "corruption" flavor of the Morgul Blade concerns me re: LMP's death. It probably means either he targeted a Mordor member, or that he was actually targeted/killed by Mordor. I suppose both of the arrow kills could come from town... a Vig and a JoaT for example.

I need to think on this a bit.


In the meantime, I want to pose a hypothetical.
Supposing we lynch one of the three on LMP's shortlist (Kats, Mari, rewq) and they flip scum. How would this affect your opinion of the remaining two players' alignments? Feel free to get into specifics (which player dies, which scumgroup are they part of) if you feel I'm generalizing too much.

[Edge]

Unvote, Vote: Mari

Its more of the same and quick on the draw when jenni leaps out of the shadows for a strike. THERE IS A VOTE EDGE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION.

STOP WITH THIS FOOLISHNESS AND GET YOUR VOTE WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE

[Edge]

RCS BEEN USING MAH CAPS????!!?!?

[Edge]

\
What the fuck do you mean "why is RC head still stuck on day 1" IS THAT A RHETORICAL "LOL IMPOSTINZ" FUCKING QUESTION OR ARE YOU JUST AN IDIOT?

I find it quite rude that you call me an idiot when its you who can't fucking read. RC, who's on all the damn time, spent the entire 929 (aside from your vote on SlySly) commenting on day 1 posts.[/quote]


OK THEN SAY "ZOMG RC IS ALWAYS ON BUT IS STILL ON D1?"

NOT DANCE A LIL DANCE AND SAY "HMMMMMM WHY U D1 STILL BOI?" THE FUCK DID YOU THINK THE ANSWER WOULD BE?

NO BACKBONE=SCUM

[Edge]

Unvote, Vote: Mari

Its more of the same and quick on the draw when jenni leaps out of the shadows for a strike. THERE IS A VOTE EDGE NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION.

THE ANSWER IS MARITYA IS TOWN NOW VOTE KATSUKI GOD DAMN IT.

[SpyreX]

LOOK YOU I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY BECAUSE I AM NOT SEEING IT.

I AM SEEING NOTHINGS ON NOTHINGS WITH A SIDE OF NOTHING.

Supposing we lynch one of the three on LMP's shortlist (Kats, Mari, rewq) and they flip scum. How would this affect your opinion of the remaining two players' alignments? Feel free to get into specifics (which player dies, which scumgroup are they part of) if you feel I'm generalizing too much.

I want the scum in there to be the dead. Rewq is town and the other two could both eat rope.

MY deal is that there's others (A2R, LL, Sly) that also need the roping - BUT I'm confident enough that I want to parse out and catch at least the scum in the set above before getting too distracted.

[rewq455]

Thank you jenni for the flavor on the Morgul Blade, I, and apparently the rest of the town, would not have thought of that. I agree that LynchMePls was probably night killed by the witch king, who is most likely a Mordor alligned scum with a separate night kill, due to the flavor. I doubt that if the scum used a standard night kill, the mod would have used the witch-kings specific kill method.

This leads to my new theory on the deaths. I think that LynchMePls was killed by the Witch-King specifically; MemoriaEsponia was killed by one of the scum night kills, as he was filled with arrows, implying multiple killers; gandalf5166 was killed by the other scum factions vig, which I am thinking is Isanguard (forgive my spelling), in which case it was most likely Lurtz as I got the impression that he was an archer; Sam was the other scum night kill, as there was room in the flavor to be interpreted that there were multiple killers. The reason that I think that there was a second vig in the other scum team is that it would keep balance between the two scum teams if they were identical. What do you guys think?

[SpyreX]

Gan was a town (not scum) shot more likely than not.
LMP was killed doing what they were trying to do.
The other two are the factional kills.

[rewq455]

Gan was a town (not scum) shot more likely than not.
LMP was killed doing what they were trying to do.
The other two are the factional kills.

So you don't but the whole corruption = Morgul Blade thing?

[Dekes]

Gan was a town (not scum) shot more likely than not.
LMP was killed doing what they were trying to do.
The other two are the factional kills.

I'm with SpyreX here. Seems like the most likely scenario.

Rewq, you think those were four scum NKs? What do you think of Haylen's death on D1?

And whoever doesn't believe LMP was breadcrumbing should take a look into his last post. Why would anyone state people who they Iso during the night in this distinctive manner? Wouldn't it be better to keep these things to yourself to not draw any attention to you if you have scum in that list?

Anyway, I ISO'd rewq and it wasn't that much of a scumfest I had originally anticipated. There are still things that are plain awful:
- How he dropped the suspicion on zwet completely when being called out on it by LMP and zwet, after rewq had stated that zwet's claim was the most anti-town thing ever
- How he originally didn't want to vote gandalf because he thought gandalf was a goon and he rather wanted to lynch a scum PR instead >_>
- How he feverishly tried to gain town credit for his hammer on WeirdRa

However, apart from that there's a lot of questioning and investigating and rewq definitely took a lot of independent stances, and while I don't agree with a lot of his opinions, it does look like honest scumhunting attempts to me. So I'll lay off of him for now.

I'll look into Katsuki and Maryita next. Initial notes on Kats: She was on every major bandwagon on D1 (ME(town), Wraith, Gandalf(town)), yet was reluctant to switch over to WeirdRa who she also had on her scum list, when it became obvious that WeirdRa would be the lynch of D1 (last attempt to stall the WeirdRa wagon so they can come up with a proper fakeclaim?)

@mod

Two things:
Can you send out some prods? Bv310 and a2rudeboy come to mind. They haven't posted in here in over ten days, yet each of them has posted a lot in other parts of the forum since.
Secondly:

Nineteen stand gathered, Nine votes will lynch (and nine will no-Lynch).

Is this correct?

If so, we might have a voteblocker amongst us.

[Glork]

I'll look into Katsuki and Maryita next. Initial notes on Kats: She was on every major bandwagon on D1 (ME(town), Wraith, Gandalf(town)), yet was reluctant to switch over to WeirdRa who she also had on her scum list, when it became obvious that WeirdRa would be the lynch of D1 (last attempt to stall the WeirdRa wagon so they can come up with a proper fakeclaim?)

This paragraph is fucking win.

[Mariyta]

zwet whining that another player's case is invalid because it's "gut" is causing my brain to destabilize since zwet himself is little more than a light spraying of invalid gut on a game.

That is just pure awesomeness that needed to be pointed out.

Notes on Drippy: Puts Nero on scum list twice; Calls SpyreX scum 6 times; the DGB half of the hydra seemed convinced that zwet was scum.

Notes on LMP: Went full-bore against Kats (especially about the lists) for a large part of D1; Thought I was the SK; Felt rewq was scum for wanting to waste a lynch on zwet; Toward the end of the day, LMP thought Kats and I were scum-buddies (meaning that lynching one of us still leaves the other as questionable)
*Side note: I'm questioning the theory that he used his doc ability to scum-hunt. Jenni pointed out that the Morgul blade causes corruption and I think the logical two scum teams would be orc and ringwraith (or Isengard and Mordor).

Notes on ME: Both heads seemed pretty convinced that Kats and rewq were scum; Italics-head expressed the opinion that zwet was full of it;

Notes on gandalf: Thought zwet's claim was bull; expressed suspicion of rewq at the end of the day

Notes on Katsuki: Danced around the list issue and wouldn't give LMP a solid answer; "Spent 9 months in Middle-Earth"; "loled at first line of role PM"; Scum meta vote on VV, claiming he was "skating through" when he wasn't; Called for Wraith to bus and bandwagon and coached him, then said his "change in play is disconcerting"; Adds rewq to her scum list for "borrowing" thoughts;

Notes on rewq: Didn't see the benefit of miller claiming so early in the game; ISO#8 agrees that zwet is "pretty scummy" and apologizes for his lack of scumhunting; Accused gandalf of "slips" that he then defined as scummy actions (not all scummy actions are slips); Says we should try to kill PR scum over goons (but only scum know who's a PR and who's a goon...); Pushed for gandalf claim when gandalf wasn't the main wagon; Acts like he

had

to hammer Weird or we'd have a no-lynch, which totally isn't true, especially since ME already said they'd hammer in an hour; Lots of posts that only reiterate what others have already said or say nothing at all. See example below.

The whole reason that scum would claim Arwen as a miller is to obtain the status of being viewed as a miller.

While Kats seems the most likely candidate for LMP's doc/scum-hunting target, I still think she's probably town. She's said some potentially scummy things, but not more than others have (gandalf, LMP, and ME for example).
VOTE: rewq


*Note: There were some posts while putting this together. I'll read those later tonight.

[Mariyta]

Thank you jenni for the flavor on the Morgul Blade, I, and apparently the rest of the town, would not have thought of that. I agree that LynchMePls was probably night killed by the witch king, who is most likely a Mordor alligned scum with a separate night kill, due to the flavor. I doubt that if the scum used a standard night kill, the mod would have used the witch-kings specific kill method.

This leads to my new theory on the deaths. I think that LynchMePls was killed by the Witch-King specifically;

What makes you think the scum gets a separate night kill?

MemoriaEsponia was killed by one of the scum night kills, as he was filled with arrows, implying multiple killers;

This is a standard orc-killing method.

gandalf5166 was killed by the other scum factions vig, which I am thinking is Isanguard (forgive my spelling), in which case it was most likely Lurtz as I got the impression that he was an archer;

You keep using "vig" in relation to scum, which is wrong. A vig, by definition, is town. And I think most of us have come to a consensus that it was a vig and who that vig probably is (character-wise).

Sam was the other scum night kill, as there was room in the flavor to be interpreted that there were multiple killers. The reason that I think that there was a second vig in the other scum team is that it would keep balance between the two scum teams if they were identical. What do you guys think?

Scum don't usually have their night kill, plus an extra kill.

As far as the kills, Haylen was most likely SK. I can see no reason why Gollum would be town. Gandalf was vigged (shot by town). ME was a scum kill, for sure (probably orcs). Sam... Sam was probably the second scum kill. Katy (I think) mentioned a CPR doc, but I could only find that role in Medical Mafia. The flavor (bled to death) doesn't strike me as a failed docing, either. The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that LMP used his doc ability (yes, I said I was questioning it in my last post, but I wrote that hours ago and I've been thinking about it a lot since then).

Dekes made a great point about Kats' vote patterns. I tend to overlook those (yes, I know, I suck at mafia).