Mini 1068: Prozacs Basic Theme 2: OVER

[Jahudo]

hi hi! that is an awesome cake.

1. I like the premise of a theme game that doesn't go too experimental so this should be good.
2. Probably scum though I prefer town.
3. No preference, but I've only seen a few of you play before. (SC, espy, xvart... and that's it I think).

[Jahudo]

We gather in someone's living room? Sounds like he's trying to hide in the shadows and not reveal his true identity. He's probably scum!

Oh hi Blackberry

Vote: Blackberry

[Jahudo]

@Espy: What game had a night 0 kill?

The intention of not allowing a VI quickhammer seems legit enough if he really believed BB was L-1.

WOO WAGON

Are you wooing the Blackberry wagon or the xvart wagon? Or maybe both?

[Jahudo]

People suspicious of Espy, do you think he unvoted for town points? Or what else could this action mean? I don't think its suspicious.

If you are scum and someone is 100% dead set that you are mafia, do you kill them at night or leave them alive to throw people off your scent?

I use my super awesome millerizer power to make them look guilty to cops!
But if I don't have that power, I would take several factors into account (someone that looks like PR, someone least likely to be mislynched, etc)

I have not put any effort into this yet, people voting me just bores me (LOL).

This sounds like you are trying to excuse yourself. Its not our (BB voters) fault that you are not putting forth effort. Though I wouldn't say you look much different than anybody else right now. Was it worth noting then?

[Jahudo]

Blackberry's question got people talking, so it had a positive result even if it wasn't directly about scumhunting. I can see him as town thinking it could jumpstart better conversations like this, so its possible a non-scumhunting question can have town intentions.

Also, sometimes townies have to be sensational to get their point across and get their team out of a ditch.

Yeah, I've seen plenty of town say stuff like "Is it because you are scum?" Sensationalizing doesn't bother me.

Not going to condemn Bub for attacking a question I didn't particularly approve of either. By the same token I've liked xvart's play so its time to get rid of my RVS vote on him.

How does this work? xvart called Bubs vote opportunistic. Do you think his read is honest, but you just disagree with it?

[Jahudo]

Hydra is fine

[Jahudo]

I'm getting bad vibes about Bub and Flameaxe, but its also that I don't understand their most recent voting thought processes. So I'll try to elaborate on these vibes.

@Bub: Why did you vote StrangerCoug? Is this a temporary vote, like would you still prefer to vote BlackBerry, or is this a vote you think you should stay on?
It looks like you didn't understand his vote post, or didn't like the explanation he gave. So you voted by asking him to explain. But I don't see how that warrants a vote on its own, unless you are also not explaining your position.

@Flameaxe: Why do you think an overreaction of a joke wagon is a good place to start? What could have been the cause or purpose for Espy unvote like that if he was scum?
You place your vote but don't add anything new to that discussion. You seem very interesting in the game's activity and direction, but I don't see you translating that interest into any action on your part.

And a minor issue, cateraction hasn't given his opinion on anything content-related yet. He only has 2 posts, but still its something I'm aware of and don't feel good about right now.

[Jahudo]

Ok Flameaxe, I understand your position. I also thought this quote was related to your desire for more activity:

because I don't see anything else to really go off of other than a blatant joke wagon and an overreaction to said wagon.

You imply there should be more to talk about, other places to investigate, but don't immediately offer up your opinion on other small stuff going on. Like Blackberry had just asked his hypothetical strategy question but you didn't say "meh" until later on. However I now think that your lack of an answer probably means you saw it and didn't think it was worth talking about so I don't think it means anything.

I forgot about Moo. He has more posts but no opinions. Is this normal for you Moo?

Again, let me say that the vote on Blackberry was simply to get the game moving in the right direction.

Do you think what Blackberry did is a scumtell? Even if its a minor one?

[Jahudo]

I forgot about Moo. He has more posts but no opinions. Is this normal for you Moo?

Do you think what Blackberry did is a scumtell? Even if its a minor one?

Tell me that this sounds like real scumhunting and not just fluff to appear town, and I'll unvote.

You aren't voting me, but SC gets the gist of it. I feel that Moo might have a meta for this kind of play, but I'm too lazy to look it up now. I don't see the point in any added pressure, I'd rather see what he does now that multiple people are aware of him. Its probably nothing.

I think I was off-base with the first set of questions I asked Bub, so I'm still trying to find out what its all about. He votes Berry to get us back on track and let him know he got us off-track, but the part I don't know is what Bub thought Berry's alignment was when he voted. From there I can get a good feeling of his intentions by hearing what he was hoping to gain from this question:

@Blackberry: Why did you ask that?

If he assumed Berry was X alignment.

Either way I think it was fair for SC to vote. But yeah, my process makes sense to me.

[Jahudo]

his avi pisses me off

Come to think of it I haven't seen any opinions from you either. Just that you want reck pressure, which isn't really a stance. Why not share thoughts about any of these "small things that are nothing extreme yet?" Wouldn't it help the town?

[Jahudo]

So when Espy originally voted SC he said this:

VOTE: SC

His iso looks very under the radarish after setting up a rqs that he likes.

No mention of scum, but "under the radar" sounds like you think it was a deliberate act, Espy, and not a player that doesn't know he's too quiet. Is that what you meant Espy?

[Jahudo]

That explains Moo's absence, something I was wondering about.

I'm just worried about my original vote reason now

Why is that?

[Jahudo]

unvote;
Vote: Espeonage

(L-2)

His unvote could make sense if his SC vote started off like a RVS vote, but it was serious from the start. So what it looks like is, he started investigating someone he thought could be scum; he found more reasoning to think scum; he unvotes. It doesn't make sense.

His voting Blackberry for asking a theory question still stands as part of my case.

Ok, gotcha. I thought you were worried in a confidence sense, but you say you are still concerned with how Bub voted Blackberry.

I do think he could have handled the situation in a more straight-forward way, where his vote would have been open to less interpretation from the start. But he did explain himself pretty quick, so its hard to say he could have been thinking opportunistically. So I share some of that concern but do not think he is the most suspicious one here.

[Jahudo]

I would like to see a good case on Espy before I commit to lynch him, though.

Are you saying that you haven't had the time to read everyone's posts and you don't know what the votes are about, or that you think the suspicions do not add up to a good case yet?

While I have no objections to an Espy lynch right now, I'm waiting for his promised post before action.

So does this mean you have the same concerns/questions that other people have posed already?

[Jahudo]

This is what I can find on xvart. He ignored plenty of players, so he might have ignored a buddy or two.

[*]I hope you (SC) are not scum because I like playing with you and wouldn't want to have to wrap a noose around your neck.

This doesn't sound like something one would say to a scumbuddy. Its sounds more like xvart is speaking to SC without knowing what he is and trying to act sincere. Town points for SC.

Got everyone off track of what? Were we on to something? This looks like an opportunistic vote on something that could be considered scummy. And the last sentence seems a little too sensationalized with the little jab at the end.

xvart placed an early vote on Bub, he didn't wait to see what the town in general thought about it. He wanted to create a division there. This could have been an easier move if BB is not on his team, so he feels some legitimacy in his opinion, or perhaps neither are scum but he thinks the division won't look like town on town to anybody.

I was tempted to give you a taste of your own medicine, to get you to post some information other than feebly attempting to generate discussion while not commenting on anything and everything, but this cannot go unvoted for: <insert espy post>

For three straight posts he starts to question shotty, and it looks like he has suspicion of him, but he doesn't vote. xvart voted Espy and Bub in the first time he talked about them, so maybe his reluctance makes shotty a more likely scumbuddy.

Since xvart was the first vote on Espy, I don't think he would have been that confident Espy had more viability to get lynched over shotty, but it is possible shotty was a backup target for him.

-----------------

I would like to think that scum would rather not all pile onto a wagon one right after the other, so at least one of q21 and drmyshottyizsik is likely town. Wouldn't surprise me to find another scum on the wagon, though.

I can see the first part being true, the votes piled on without much discussion or Espy talking first. There was no town sentiment to get a feeling of, so unless scum just blazed headfirst onto a wagon at least one of them is probably town.

The second part may or may not be a good bet. There was no counter-wagon that scum might be worried about, so they could have easily stayed off voting. But odds do have more people on the wagon than off it, so it might still be a good place to look closer.

[Jahudo]

RhinoX. I like it. It sounds Xtreme.

Moar scumpoints for shotty.

Meh. I'm gonna Vote: drmyshottyizsik

Moar? This is the first time you've mentioned him. What else do you think is scummy?
And why add the "meh at the end there? You don't sound too excited about this case.

[Jahudo]

Bub and Moo should clarify their votes, if they still believe them. I don't see a point in either vote.

@Flameaxe: What is your take on shotty right now? Your vote/unvote seems to suggest you don't think he is vote worthy yet, but your follow-up post has frustration in it and I'm trying to see your point in writing it. Do you think it is null or not that he claimed to "call" xvart's read?

[Jahudo]

I think there are only 2 votes on shotty.

It feels to me like completely unwarranted boasting, which is something that I personally find to be scummy (a few steps down the "trying to be too townie" road).

So you think scum might try and mimic a town response to seeing scum get NK'ed, as a way to try and appear town? I have heard that logic before, but I don't think its a good tell.

I have yet to play with him personally, so I'm surprised I'm having this much reserve about voting him right now.

Does this mean you normally don't have reservations about voting someone you think is a VI? I am still wondering why you didn't keep you vote on him at the start of the day, because it sounds like you could argue for it.

[Jahudo]

Flame voted and unvoted in the same post a few pages back.

My vote = because congratulating the killer is a scum tell. It's just something that scum tend to do.

Like, 'Great protection, doc'.

Bleh, bad scumtell IMO. Also, why did you give Reck a free pass on this? He was cheering the flip too.

[Jahudo]

I don't think I've played with him before.

[Jahudo]

Reck I think you have a point about the quick shotty wagon looking too easy. Regardless of his alignment, its possible scum would want to jump on his unpopular playing style. It requires little effort to find him a distraction at best.

I would say that Moo's reaction looks worst. SC and Bub's do not bother me. Flame's gives me a little concern, but it might just be the part where he's using sarcasm which is easy to misinterpret.

I dunno. Reck was more just going YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY whereas shotty directly stood out to me as more of a scum reaction. He started asking questions as if he was panicking slightly.

I think you are reaching here. He asked one question that he didn't want answered. I don't see how that is an indication of panic. And how is "YAY" that much different than "nice shot"?

Each time you've explained your vote, you still aren't giving the whole read. It all seems like you are making it up as you go along.

Vote: Moospiker

[Jahudo]

Rhinox you still haven't given your opinion about players. Like do you think shotty has committed scumtells? Do you think the wagon on him is genuine or opportunistic? Or are you looking at some other area of the game.

[Jahudo]

But you are already voting Moo aren't you? I think he has 4 votes now, shotty with 3.

[Jahudo]

This is a quick wagon, but not surprising if Moo is scum or town. He's still my top pick for scum.

I would like to hear Blackberry's take on the wagon though, and more from Rhinox too.

[Jahudo]

@Reck: does this mean you thought Moo was either playing like scum or a VT?

I can see Moo's way of voting as not being a cop or doc tell, for instance, but I'm not sure what clicked for you when he claimed VT.

PS: My role PM says I'm gay and interested in a guy called Ross

But is that just flavor? Or do you think the roles are linked in some way? Unless there's something extra in your win con, for example, it probably isn't relevant even if there is a Ross in the game.

---------------

Bub was suspicious of shotty on day 1, so his quick vote was not as surprising as Moo's. The question about speculating looked like an add-on to his original suspicion, and not opportunistic.

His logic loses me when he votes Moo, since he had previously said "if shotty is town, either moo or sc is scum". The vote feels like he changed his shotty read without saying so, or giving a reason. It could be an opportunistic wagon hop.

@Bub: What happened to your shotty read when you voted Moo?

---------------

@Blackberry: What about Flameaxe looks different? I'll give that game a quick read to see if I pick up any vibe, but I don't have any sort of meta on Flame.

[Jahudo]

@Shotty, is your vote because you think reck is wrong in assuming scum jumped on your wagon? I've been wondering, do you have a problem with the way he has described your play?

I don't think you are playing as bad as he describes, but at the same time I understand the position he could be coming from if he is town and feels strongly about a town read. I've played that way. I think he's being sincere, so I think you are both probably town.

Also it wouldn't make much sense for a scumteam of reck and shotty to have such a visible connection with the knowledge that scum could die during the night too.

I don't think I've ever seen scum jahudo.

I looked it up. We were actually in on a mafia together in Juls' "Streets of Verona", but only for a short amount of time.

[Jahudo]

^^^The part that makes me think Bub is not alligned with xvart. Interesting that xvart votes bub right when bub starts going after blackberry.

It feels honest that you're admitting you don't think everything points to Bub as scum. If you were just trying to "sell" this lynch you could have forced and interpretation where Bub and xvart could be scum together.

[Jahudo]

I am Brittany Black, a doctor, and I protected Bub Bidderskins last night. As I have a 25% chance of killing instead of investigating my target, I'm playing it closer to a vig than a doctor. I believe Bub Bisdderskins to be town because the only person to die Night 1 flipped Mafia.

How could that account for the mafia death? It would require something like a bus driver wouldn't it? Otherwise the only person you could have killed was Bub. Still, it is a possibility.

I think Moo is the better choice today with or without this claim. I just don't think Bub's actions towards shotty are as opportunistic. He seems to start with small suspicions, true, but that doesn't mean they are insincere attempts at picking out scum. He's just suspicious of what he sees as non-contributors it seems.

[Jahudo]

SC did change his attitude towards Bub overnight. He says things that suggest he knows something beyond what he's analyzed in the thread.

OK, before I switched to Espeonage, I was voting Bub Bidderskins. I think I'm a little crazy to be going after him at this point.

You unvote Moospiker for claiming vanilla townie

AND

you consider it a tossup between two obvtown players?

I think either SC has to be scum with Bub, or he is town. And if he's town, either his protection accounts for the lack of a scumkill or there is another element out there (bus driver, mafia is poisoner, pgo to name a few).

Based on that I think SC would be an opportunistic lynch, without first lynching Bub.

-Blackberry's opinions look valid because he is arguing they are both scum while keeping his vote on Bub.

-Moo's vote is reactionary, otherwise I think he would say something about Bub here. But the time it took for him to vote, then explain the vote, look like he was deciding what to think about the claim. So I'm even more concerned why he didn't have more to say about it and SC's connection to Bub. I'm even more confident about my vote on Moo.

---------

I've talked with Porochaz before. He and I think alike in terms of set-up and guidelines for roles and role balance. And one thing I would never do is have a role that involves luck such as you mentioned.

Is this established somewhere on the site? I think the claim actually fits what Poro said about this game:

No unusual roles but roles that wouldn't necessarily fit into a mini normal

Sane/Paranoid/Naive/CPR Doc all fall under the category of normal to me anyway, so if this role was one that "wouldn't necessarily fit", I can see this as a possible reason why.

[Jahudo]

It's the way I see it. Half/Half is going to be more common than Three Quarters/One Quarter.

Is there any logic behind this? I don't see any.

50% vig only seems more likely if there is not another role that can night kill. Part of balance is making sure a game does not end too soon.

If we believe SC's claim, then its likely we have a third killing power unaccounted for (unless its a redirect power of some kind). So with the setup information we can speculate on now, it seems more common for SC to be 25% vig and 75% doc.

You can still argue that SC is scum and disregard the possibility of 3 killing powers, but you can't use an argument that actually supports SC's claim.

[Jahudo]

Is that hammer?

Yeah.

If you are town you might want to take this chance to explain why SC is still scum, if you think so. Or who else you would vote for if you could.

I argued 25% vig makes more sense here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2634663

Any thoughts?

[Jahudo]

My first thought is that scum killed SC the outed doc, and SC vigged shotty.

I also have good reason right now to believe that Moospiker and drmyshottyizsik are of opposing alignments, and I want to get rid of my more confident scum read first.

This late day 2 post indicates he would have been suspicious of shotty going into night.

This also means Bub is nearly confirmed not-mafia, the only caveat I can think of is a bus driver at this point. That makes him a likely target for scum tonight, so outing the other mason or any other power role might not be a good idea today.

I don't think we're in lylo or mylo either, unless we have 2 mafia scum and a third party member like SK but I don't think we have an SK. So I think massclaim can wait.

[Jahudo]

@BB: Why didn't you call out Flameaxe for this post:

Now I get to bring out my favorite mafia term: Wishy-washy. Its what your play has seemed to me for a majority of this game, including this defense in the above posts. In addition, Scoug 182 makes some sense to me, at least more sense than your recent rebuttal.

It happened 30 minutes before Bub used the term "wishy-washy", but when Bub did it you used it in a case against him.

I think Rhinox has a good case going. BB's points against Bub looked very forced at times. Even though he stepped back from his A-D points post, the original intent looks like he was trying to find things to stick after he had already made up his mind that he was going to go after Bub.

Vote: Blackberry

[Jahudo]

Reck is town

[Jahudo]

That's not why I said reck is town, but all that's important is that I'm not voting him today.

Flameaxe would be my backup vote choice, because I wonder why he went about his shotty and reck cases they way he did yesterday. They were not being accepted by anyone else but he stayed with it and mostly ignored other discussions like Bub and SC, except for the talk about vig percents. This could be an attempt to stack mislynches for future days, or stay away from a mislynch that people might look for scum on the next day. But it could be a sign that he was not interested in other discussions and just wanted to stay where he believed was more important.

That said, if he really believed it was a better alternative I think he would have talked more to the group than to reck when he made his case and continued to defend it. So I have my doubts on him.

[Jahudo]

Mod: can you prod Blackberry?

[Jahudo]

How is Rhinox not sincere?

[Jahudo]

I still think the moo wagon was worthwhile, and with the lack of any counter-wagon I don't think scum would have been worried about getting lynched themselves. So they could have easily kept away if they wanted to.

The only point supporting the idea of scum on moos wagon that I see is there are more unflipped people on the wagon than off it. And an equal number of unknown alignments if you were on the wagon like I was, so you could play the odds of it.

Bub - 1 - Reck

moospiker

- 6 - Jahudo, Bub,

Strangercoug

, q21,

shotty

, Blackberry
Reck - 1 - Flameaxe
Blackberry - 1 - Rhinox

StrangerCoug

- 1 -

Moospiker

At that point in time, both moo and I were at L-3. It seems like he didn't really care which one went to L-2, but he wanted to put some one there. Within a few posts, moo was hammered.

You and Moo were his top suspects the entire day, and town can feel that way about two people. So why do you think he was being disingenuous that that point, or even earlier?

[Jahudo]

Blackberry, what ever happened to your Flameaxe suspicion?

---------------

Like I said yesterday, his jump off of the moo wagon did not seem genuine to me.

He was the first one to react to the claim, so we know he was not waiting around for a popular reaction. What makes you think he was not approaching Moo as someone that looked either scum or VT, like he says?

I can see the argument that Moo was at times playing aggressively and did not feel the need to work out his cases in the thread. That is often closer to VT or scum play than a useful town power role that plays more conservatively. Do you disagree with this?

Since Moo looked anti-town, a wagon on him was justifiable. If he had claimed something like cop, his playstyle choices would look more unreasonable and a new angle could be argued for him being scum. Do you disagree with this?

Even if you do, what is the scum motivation for trying to stop a wagon on town-Moo?

[Jahudo]

Lynch Berry, lynch Flame, town victory. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Jahudo]

unvote

I want to consider this claim, but also I want to hear Berry's opinions some more.

1) Is bus driver an actual role you can use or can be used indirectly?

I want to know if there's any possibility that this can explain the night 1 events. I don't remember you considering this when SC claimed that he protected Bub.


2) What was your bad feeling about Flameaxe? Is it still here, or maybe he isn't playing that way anymore? What can you say about this.

I am willing to consider him as a better lynch today because his attack on reck still doesn't feel right to me. But I don't feel the same about Rhinox's case on Berry, or Rhinox in general.

[Jahudo]

gogogo

unvote;
Vote: Flameaxe

[Jahudo]

massclaim bad. flameaxe lynch good.

[Jahudo]

Psychologist / Psychiatrist is the common name for a role that can turn a SK into a VT by targeting them at night. I don't see any signs that Rhinox had cleared someone as not-SK.

Bub might be SK, but he isn't mafia. I'm not sure anyone is actually, except maybe Berry.

[Jahudo]

Oh, and I wouldn't mind massclaiming today even though it doesn't look like lylo.

[Jahudo]

So that's what an usurper is. Forget what I said before

[Jahudo]

OK, so Berry has a point about how he couldn't be GF.

I think this is Flame hinting that Reck is the GF:

Reck is going to hate life after I'm lynched. Seriously. You're a complete idiot.

Lynch me, and realize how scummy Reck truly is from my flip.

I think he wrote this at L-1, when he probably knew he was about to lose. It makes sense he'd try to get some vengeance on why he lost, instead of try to continue helping him through misdirection.

Plus there is a lack of evidence that Flame was trying to get Bub or q21 lynched. He suspected q21 only in relation to reck, who he voted for most of the game. His tunneling also makes sense now that he flipped usurper.

Except this one comment is odd:

Hello Reck's obv partner!

But I think it can be explained by how q21 was siding with reck. And Flame said it more as a side-comment, just because it was laid out perfectly to someone who suspected reck. So it was probably just a show and not a real implication or Flame trying to mislynch.

I'm less sure who could be SK, so Reck is my top suspect right now for GF. Assume my vote would be on him if it wasn't so early in the day with 3 to lynch.

[Jahudo]

No I just dropped the ball. I forgot to look it up during night, just being happy about getting scum, then I started the day thinking about the Psychologist.

[Jahudo]

Hmm, has there ever been an SK in a masonry? I guess its theoretically possible but when I think of scum in a masonry I think of mafia. Maybe it could happen.

@Bub: Did you or shotty say anything that hasn't been talked about in thread?

E) I just realized, maybe the lack of kills is due to the SK & Godfather constantly targetting one another. In which case, they might know who eachother are.

I was just wondering why you might think both roles have bulletproof, but then I came up with a few ideas that make sense.
GF should have full bulletproof otherwise Usurper could use faction kill on GF. SK probably has 1-shot or full bulletproof to balance out the extra difficulty he gets from a psych. Is that what you thought also?

[Jahudo]

Something made you think q21 was mason buddy with shotty? And confirmed mason buddy?

q21's turn to claim.

[Jahudo]

Oh yeah? Well I can't wait to bomb some dodongos!

[Jahudo]

I also like Berry's claim better, and think q21 might be the SK actually. I might read some of his games while we wait for him to return, because in this game he hasn't posted too much or made big risks with investigating which sounds like an SK.

@Blackberry: Now that you know Flameaxe was scum, do you see any tell tale signs from his posts that make sense he'd be scum? Maybe you have meta knowledge on how he'd treat a buddy, or a buddy he wants to kill.

[Jahudo]

Posting to avoid prod mostly. q21 is still out for a couple of days and I want to claim after he does.

I'm not sure what Blackberry is getting at with Bub, but it is still a question unanswered. Bub?

Its hard to say what sonuds like a reasonable VT role PM. The OP clearly says they aren't standardized so maybe some VTs have weaknesses or secrets while others dont. But I bet its all for flavor and only a power role would have a secret or weakness that meant something. That, and maybe scum have fake claims.

[Jahudo]

Yay q21's back. Now I'll wrap up the massclaim.

I am Alistair Kennedy,

Cop

. My secret is that I investigate people at night, my weakness is that I'm a 1-shot PGO.

I chose not to claim the PGO part on day 1 because I hoped to draw a scum kill, and as a normal PGO I'd mostly be worried about killing a cop. I thought maybe I killed xvart but I was never really sure. I'm even less sure now that Rhinox flipped psych.

My night targets have been: (N1) StrangerCoug = Not Mafia (N2) Reck = Not Mafia (N3) Bub = Not Mafia

I chose them because SC was a null read and I thought he wouldn't be lynched early, getting a better read on Reck might also get a read on shotty and their strong opinions, and night 3 was a tossup between Bub and Berry for not voting Flame.

--------

I don't doubt that q21 is Michael Murphy because the OP flavor states that he and Nina Jones are in this flat. But who knows whether the flavor can be trusted to either of their alignments, so the claims are pretty null.

I strongly think Reck is the GF based on Flameaxe's ISO. He needs the GF to die before the game is over, so he can't wait too long. If a townie had died yesterday, scum could go into today at Lylo. If town then voted town, and Flame didn't help the GF win the game, the GF might realize something was up and bus Flame. So I feel that he would have started bussing before lylo. Plus he would gain townie points by leading the wagon, so extending the game wouldn't be a huge downside for him.

@Reck: How do you think Flame would have treated the GF?

[Jahudo]

That would be weird if Reck was scum and his flavor was drug dealer. Why implicate yourself? But I'm staying away from this game's flavor altogether. The most important thing to me right now is the dead scum and their interactions with the living people in this game.

I don't know... I've never played Usurper, so I'm not sure how most would normally play that role.

Have you played the lyncher/lynchee setup? I think it would be like that, like you say he should have gone after the GF. So do you see anyone else he was going after? Or do you have a theory why Flame wouldn't have suspected the GF?

[Jahudo]

Reck was kind of the instigator, not flameaxe.

Is this why you think Reck is not the GF? Then what do you make of these comments?

Reck is going to hate life after I'm lynched. Seriously. You're a complete idiot.

Lynch me, and realize how scummy Reck truly is from my flip.

[To reck] If only you knew how fucked you're going to be.

I've seen the "you'll be sorry for lynching me/ a townie" line before, but not like this. He made it personal with reck, like if he wasn't going to win he would take somebody down with him. So why not go after the reason you lost?

He did try to go after q21 quite a bit before turning on me after I defended q21 (wrongly, as I've now realized he isn't the other mason).

No I don't think he mentioned q21 until he started looking for your buddy.

Also, Jahudo... do you really think there'd be an investigation immune AND nightkill immune godfather? Because if you're saying I'm the GF, and we've already established the Godfather HAS to have NK immunity, AND you got an innocent on me, then you're saying I'm a pretty overpowered godfather.

I just had a thought. The GF wouldn't need NK immunity if he was the only one who could use the faction kill while he was still alive. I think I've heard of games where the GF is the one that has to use the kill. I'll try to remember where.

Richard Jones, threatening that "we are coming" to kiss us, indicating he is the godfather

Do you think porochaz would do that with his flavor?

The fact that you're trying to paint someone who is the ONLY CLAIMED COUNTERPART to a MOD-CONFIRMED MASON is just making me want to lynch you more and more.

Confirmed role does not equal confirmed alignment. I don't recall anyone (shotty, bub, the mod) saying it was a confirmed alignment masonry.

[Jahudo]

Hammering now.

Vote: xRECKONERx

[Jahudo]

As a side note:

I know PokerFace termed neighbor a few years ago but I don't think its the official name for the role. I still think masons could be confirmed or not confirmed, so maybe we should have an MD discussion about this after the game is over. See what % of people use which term, and if there should only be one name for unconfirmed night talkers.

[Jahudo]

There wasn't much reck could do yesterday and I think he did a good job considering how Flame basically called him GF as he was dying, and was tunneling on him the whole game. I do think the mafia was underpowered but I guess it could have been a much different game if Rhinox or SC had targeted me first. I think seeing two pro-town players die night one would have made more people think the SK was real.

I didn't want to believe the flavor actually meant anything so I'm a little upset that it did. But I think the game would have had the same result without it.

Overall I enjoyed the game, partially because I've never been a PGO before and only once been a cop so that by itself was exciting. The pacing was good for the most part, we never got into wall of texts which was nice. And it was great not having any replacements.

@scum: what was the reasoning behind the NKs?

[Jahudo]

I created a MD thread for discussing masons and neighbors: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=15995

Its not that I think this game caused an issue with the role terminology, but more I'm just curious to see if more people think masons should be confirmed.