Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[neil1113]

When did I ask for everyone to claim neil? I asked for a VC claim since he was L-1. Now you have held this shit grudge on me since day 1 vote, and I am not supirsed with the vote. However, I voted with all honesty. I had the total intent to hammer him after VC claimed, and Oli was gonna self-hammer. You my friend are stretching for facts. Also,

V/LA till Late Sunday early Monday

"When did I ask everyone to claim?" You've asked two people so far to out who they are.

"I asked for a VC claim... you're stretching for facts." Nope, you've also asked for Nevermind to claim. Thus, you just lied. Or deliberately left out something to make yourself seem more innocent, so you were being deceitful. Whichever you like the sound of more, pick.

"You've held this grudge on me since day 1." I've had a feeling, I've ran with it, and you've done nothing to prove me wrong. In fact, you've fueled the fire not eliminated it. So in fact, it's not a "grudge." And I'm sure you're not surprised with the vote. You shouldn't be. You're scum, you've been outed, but everyone has softened up to you. I'm guessing it's because you're 13.

"However, I voted with all honesty." Oh, is that so? I'm glad you didn't vote with a lie?

"I had the total intent to hammer him after VC claimed." So why is it you made this statement concerning Oli:

I swear I got a bad feeling about this...

? Don't give me that crap about how you were so ready to hammer him, rather or not Silver told you to. You said yourself you didn't think it was right, and you went along with it anyway. It seems to me like that was a planned scum move in order to try to remove eyes on you after placing the hammer vote.

"You my friend, are stretching for facts." And you my friend, are a liar. And scum. Show me where I've "stretched" for facts, and we'll talk. Otherwise, get out of here.



Now, onto Yoenit.

You do realize you just practically speaking, said it's better to kill off a townie then to no lynch for "odds" of catching scum. Seriously? Do I even need to say anything?

[Yoenit]

You do realize you just practically speaking, said it's better to kill off a townie then to no lynch for "odds" of catching scum. Seriously? Do I even need to say anything?

I am not sure if you are mathematically challenged or just pretending not to understand. Assuming the latter, which gives you a shitload of scum points. Maybe somebody will explain later, maybe not. I don't care, back on tuesday

[Civil Scum]

Will catch up with a post, but first quickly.

...even though there really wasn't much of a case against Oli except for what Civil pointed out.

I wouldn't go that far, but it really was less of a "case" than him just being/acting really scummy. And I wouldn't even say that I just interpreted everything as scummy because I got myself tunneled or something. He was sounding extremely scummy to me, and lots of the things he did and said were pricking me terribly. Someone's going to say this sounds scummy, but I was shocked at the flip. I mean literally shocked. My hair stood up and I couldn't eat for days...not really, but I was shocked.

He was mirepresenting me, and strawmanning based on my "evasive tendencies". He backed off his whole case on me with 1 point and 1 post, and compeltely did a 180. He claimed that bread-crumbing 'townie' should be counted as evidence that he's a townie. He said he was trying to play scummy in the same post that he said that he really wasn't trying to.

I'm not trying to justify it or anything (or maybe I am a little), but more that I disagree with your opinion/read of it.


Neil: It really is this simple. You want to lynch Razgriz. Lets say we do, and he's a townie. We get a third day to make the right lynch.

If we had not had a claim from VC, and didn't lynch Olinea, and just let Nevermind die at night (for example. He's still lurking HARD btw). We'd have no new hard-information to work with, and we'd likely be still trying to decide between Olinea and VC. Then we lynch Olinea and VC dies. Now you go after Razgriz. He flips town and you Lose.

Do you want 3 chances to get a correct-lynch, or do you want 2?

I need to take a good hard look back at daRaz, Yoenit, Catepillar. I hope Nevermind can come back to play the game.

But I really am clue-less at this point.

If Silver is scum, he's playing a very sauve and good game. The sometimes annoying humor could be part of his plan/facade...

We had 5 real wagons D-1 before a lynch. That was pretty impressive/unusual. It's never really the first, but often by the second or third realistic suspect, the town is ready for someone to go. We tried for a long time to get the best lynch...and both of the suspects were townies. I'm not sure if any of this means anything, but it's pretty interesting and unusual for a newbie game.

I also did remember Raz being too anxious and quick about getting claims from people.

[neil1113]

Yoenit really does seem to have angry posts towards me. I wonder why?

Right now, my suspicions are Raz, Silver, and something about Yoenit just isn't rubbing right with me. I get scum points for pointing out the obvious... hmm. For the record Yoenit, I'm not mathematically challenged. I'm saying you defended the lynch with those statistics but no matter what the chance is that we hit scum or town, the fact remains that we've still killed one of our own members. If you think it was better to kill one of our own members then to just take the no lynch, then there's something terribly wrong with you. Despite your little math game.

[nevermind]

We had 5 real wagons D-1 before a lynch. That was pretty impressive/unusual. It's never really the first, but often by the second or third realistic suspect, the town is ready for someone to go. We tried for a long time to get the best lynch...and both of the suspects were townies. I'm not sure if any of this means anything, but it's pretty interesting and unusual for a newbie game.

I'm pretty sure this is a good thing, we can have more suspects, right?
Not sure what going on still, or who to suspect. I usually have my own opinion, but this game is much more high-content than I'm used to.

[Catterpillar]

Oh hey, night ended early.

Well, day one was a great big pile of fail. Let's do better today B|b

CP,

I'm confused with my reading towards you as well. Though you made a point I've made several times concerning Scum Partners, and that gave me points towards you. Unfortunately, those points are nuetral and can be swayed either way, so if you're scum, don't slip up.

...

I was wrong about the team between Raz and Chaim, though I believe I had half of it right. It could very well be Raz and Silver, which reading back through their posts and the mentions they've put to one another I must say... it's very compelling to look at. But between Silver and Raz, my vote was before and will always until I'm convinced otherwise stay with Raz being scum.

Wai so inconsistent, neil? I'm presuming you meant my argument against discussing scum partners until it was not immensely useful to scum so why are you discussing it? Day one only went to show how useless discussing it is until you have one hung and quartered so can we please just not?
And what the hell kind of thing to say is "Unfortunately, those points are nuetral and can be swayed either way, so if you're scum, don't slip up." don't you want scum to slip up? _{In case anyone is feeling particularly thick, and I really don't think any of you would be but just in case, I'm not saying I'm scum, I would be saying this if I noticed it and it was directed at someone else as well.}


All of my speculations were surrounding Olinea flipping scum and VC lying so I desperately need to do a big reread. _{What kind of brain death must I have been having to replace into such a long game? /cry}

Also, not sure who I should direct this to so I thought I would ask you guys

and possibly our dear mod

I received a PM from AngelofDeath, who hasn't posted at all on the site, advertising another mafia site. I would think this was against the rules and what not so possibly someone might want to ban her or something? IDK just thought I should mention it somewhere as that kind of thing leads to spam :/

[Civil Scum]

All of my speculations were surrounding Olinea flipping scum and VC lying so I desperately need to do a big reread.

Whoa whoa there Secretariat

What happened to this?

And I didn't like [Civil] making it seem like I was randomly waffling and

still find the fact that [he's] so certain about Olinea and that [he] got pissy as hell as soon as I mentioned finding [him] scummy. scummy as all fuck.
I'm also frustrated at that. x 3

Forget so soon or something?

Was there ever a time, while you were leaving your vote on Olinea and calling me scummy, when it occured to you that we were maybe the most unlikely scum-pair in the whole game?


Neil: The no-lynch thing is counterintuitive, but not to the point of incomprehensibility. I think this is Yoenit's point, that you sound like you're repeating a townie-slogan, or intentionally "failing" to comprehend it.

Razgriz: Can you explain why you had a "bad feeling" as you went to hammer Olinea?

As for Yoenit, I think your defense of Olinea stank to high heavens. You didn't seem able or willing to give any reasoning as to why you'd be inclined to think well of holy-Oli. Your case on me was based on speculation, and before that you basically said that I seemed suspicious to you for being pro-town and for not seeming suspicious to anyone else. I mean correct me if I'm wrong but 'you're not suspicious to anyone' seems like a terrible reason to suspect someone. Like one of the worst I can think of.

Nevermind: Always nice to see you. Seriously. But you do realize that you've been posting just enough to defend yourself and stay in the game. I totally understand being busy with school or work and stuff and irl situations. But that can easily be a lie, and how would we be able to tell if it was true or not? How can we be sure your posting habits this game are not malicious behavior? Or that your busy-ness is not a half-truth?

Still have to take a gander over at the wolf...

[Civil Scum]

vote: Yoenit

[Civil Scum]

I am not sure if you are mathematically challenged or just pretending not to understand. Assuming the latter, which gives you a shitload of scum points.

Why would you assume something that you're not sure of, for the purpose of giving someone scum points?

And while I understood your point on Neill clearly, it is by no means imaginable a cause of "shitloads of scum points." Especially, since as you already said, he might not understand it yet, or it may be stubborness.

You didn't want to vote Olinea, based on that you were so sure VC was scum, and you couldn't see them being scum together... so both of them died and all you've naturally talked about/or mentioned since coming back is your V/LA and a disagreement about no-lynching...something doesn't seem right to me about that.

[silverbullet999]

-Kneel (Neil)

If you think it was better to kill one of our own members then to just take the no lynch, then there's something terribly wrong with you. Despite your little math game.

This is horribly wrong... it's much better to mislynch than no-lynch in newbie games. OH SO MUCH better. Yes losing doc sucks but that doesn't mean we auto lose. Not at all.

I'm sort of tempted to go with raz right now but imma hold my vote for now. His recent post (and neil's pointing outs) sways me back to him for now.

[neil1113]

CP:

Wai so inconsistent, neil? I'm presuming you meant my argument against discussing scum partners until it was not immensely useful to scum so why are you discussing it? Day one only went to show how useless discussing it is until you have one hung and quartered so can we please just not?
And what the hell kind of thing to say is "Unfortunately, those points are nuetral and can be swayed either way, so if you're scum, don't slip up." don't you want scum to slip up? In case anyone is feeling particularly thick, and I really don't think any of you would be but just in case, I'm not saying I'm scum, I would be saying this if I noticed it and it was directed at someone else as well.

Inconsistent? Is that so? Maybe you should go back and reread what I said. My evidence was spoken already concerning WHY I believe they were partners, granted it was spoken lightly in order to give Silver a chance to defend that without a band wagon forming right up his alley. And did you just say it wasn't useful to scum? What does that mean? I don't want to do anything useful for scum in this game... was that a slip up Mr. CP? I agree, Day 1 showed how useless yelling out "You're Scum!" is, but as far as partners are concerned I believe only one person outwardly admitted to thinking Oli and VC were partners. So I believe you're point is invalid here sir. I also believe that you'd have known this, had you checked your facts... and thus you obviously must be stretching for some reason to try and point your finger this way.

And what kind of thing is that to say, you ask? It's a form of me saying I'm watching you. Not to be taken literal word for word. Why don't you back off jumping on every little thing you say, and actually try helping out the town by focusing on things a little bigger then one weird phrasing from someone. I also like your quick defense as to "oh and by the way, I'm not scum!" Sounds like a very townie thing to do right? You make a point, which you think is a good point, then quickly back it up with "oh, and I am not scum."

CP, let me make this a little clearer so you can actually understand it this time. I. Am. Watching. You.

Civil:

Neil: The no-lynch thing is counterintuitive, but not to the point of incomprehensibility. I think this is Yoenit's point, that you sound like you're repeating a townie-slogan, or intentionally "failing" to comprehend it.

I understood what he was saying, and why his math lined up. In the same sense, think about this as real life. You have 9 people, two of them can kill you. If you had the choice, would you really want to let TWO people die just because the "odds" might be better in catching scum? If so, that'd be inhumane and you'd be no different then a serial killer who murders for "justice." I also get why a no lynch is bad, but again... it doesn't change the facts that we not only outed a townie and a townie death, but a doctor, and a doctor death. I don't think it made a lose per say, but if we don't get with this game, we could very well just pack this game up for a loss. And I am not playing this game to lose.

Silver:

Kneel (Neil)

Truthfully, I thought you could've done so much better with this. But you seem to have missed my curiosity concerning you, and overlooked it. Or you may have just been trying to buddy up with me by aiming your FoS so to speak at your partner, but deliberately not voting for him? And before CP comes on and says "see! You're claiming partners again!" I'll gently encourage him to actually read my post this time, and read the part I directed to him. Anyways Silver, I don't like the odds of you, Raz, or CP as of currently, while Yoenit is also on my watch list. It stinks, because that's 4 people which means 2 are likely townies if not more.




Also Civil, could you please restate your case against Yoenit? Because right now if I've read correctly, it's because he made a good call with bad reasoning concerning Olinea, and he had bad reasons to place his vote on you? That doesn't sound like a very solid case to me Civil, one I'd be shocked you would make... which is also why I have to ask what you reasoning is again, just to be sure that this is in fact, it.

[silverbullet999]

-Neil

Truthfully, I thought you could've done so much better with this. But you seem to have missed my curiosity concerning you, and overlooked it. Or you may have just been trying to buddy up with me by aiming your FoS so to speak at your partner, but deliberately not voting for him? And before CP comes on and says "see! You're claiming partners again!" I'll gently encourage him to actually read my post this time, and read the part I directed to him. Anyways Silver, I don't like the odds of you, Raz, or CP as of currently, while Yoenit is also on my watch list. It stinks, because that's 4 people which means 2 are likely townies if not more.

Not sure how my FoS is anything relatively new... do you seem to forget day 1? Was it some elaborate bussing plot day 1 all thrown away because I was angry that the doc got outed because a hammer took a long while to come and I just wanted the day to end before any more info to scum (granted the chance was unlikely) occured and at the time for one scum to go down (supposedly being who we lynched who left us in a mystery til the very end and in my eyes also looked incredibly scummy)?
Now is the only main reason you think i'm scum from me ordering the hammer from raz or is it interactions with raz as a whole?

[Civil Scum]

You have 9 people, two of them can kill you. If you had the choice, would you really want to let TWO people die just because the "odds" might be better in catching scum?

It's always unfortunate when you mislynch. Obviously we wouldn't want to lynch people we knew were townies. AND one of those people would have died anyways. So we weren't "letting two people die", we were taking a chance at catching scum. After the lynch, of course you can say that no-lynch might have been better, but we had no way of knowing Olinea was a townie, right Neil?

You're in a dark room, and there's two people in the darkness that want to kill you. You have a gun but can't see very well or make anything out. Do you want 3 bullets, or 2?

[Civil Scum]

Neil, you're getting scum points for defending Yoenit.

[Civil Scum]

Why would you attack my vote on Yoenit before he had even had a chance to respond to it?

[neil1113]

Silver:

Now is the only main reason you think i'm scum from me ordering the hammer from raz or is it interactions with raz as a whole?

Truthfully, the MAIN reason, yes. But the interactions as a whole makes me curious as I don't believe there's been much talk between you two. Though I will admit, I looked at only a few posts. Which is why I'm questioning you, not voting for you. If I'm wrong, correct me.

Civil:

You're in a dark room, and there's two people in the darkness that want to kill you. You have a gun but can't see very well or make anything out. Do you want 3 bullets, or 2?

Ladies and Gentleman, boys and girls. Another figurative message from Civil that makes... absolutely no sense. If you're saying what I think you're saying, Mr. Civil, why would I have a gun? And truthfully, I wouldn't want it. I couldn't live with killing an innocent person. As far as you're blatant attempt at making me look suspicious for saying I wouldn't have voted for Oli, well Oli wasn't the most suspicious person in my eyes, so I would say that a no-lynch would've been better then me voting for Oli. Now onto your last two posts.

Civil:

Neil, you're getting scum points for defending Yoenit.

1st things 1st.

Me:

and something about Yoenit just isn't rubbing right with me

Me, again:

while Yoenit is also on my watch list

Yepp, definitely defending Yoenit. You've caught me. (The reason for no defense to this is, well.. there is no case. I'm not defending him, in fact I'm curious to hear him speak when he gets back.)

Then onto your second post.

Civil:

Why would you attack my vote on Yoenit before he had even had a chance to respond to it?

1. I didn't attack it. I questioned it.
2. I was wondering what exactly your case was for him, because I have suspicions concerning him as well. However, if you have something I missed, then it could be rather important.
3. But if what your case was indeed what it seemed like, then it was crap and you either need to find a better case, or look elsewhere.
4. Say what you want, but in the interest of winning this game, I'd rather not waste time chasing down empty leads. Which I do believe it was you who brought up Oli in the first place last day phase.
5. All good lists are divisible by 5!

Now, with that said Mr. Civil. I really do suggest you stop throwing out "scum points" so easily. You'll do more danger to the town, then as a threat to the scum. Unless, of course, you are scum. In which case I'd say, well played sir.

[Civil Scum]

Ladies and Gentleman, boys and girls...

...all know that you are wrong about the no-lynch thing. And I mean ALL. Like everyone who's played mroe than one game on this forum.

I'm not going to continue debating anything with you until you slow down and realize you're way off base about this. You're assuming that we knew Olinea was a townie, for one.

[silverbullet999]

Truthfully, the MAIN reason, yes. But the interactions as a whole makes me curious as I don't believe there's been much talk between you two. Though I will admit, I looked at only a few posts. Which is why I'm questioning you, not voting for you. If I'm wrong, correct me.

I wanna say that probably half... of my posts... maybe a little less mention raz. Either him skippng a question and me reminding him to answer or me asking him a question...

[neil1113]

Silver,

I understand that. I figured it'd be an easy way to keep attention between each other, but not specifically suspicion, should you be partners.

Civil,

"All know that you are wrong about the no-lynch thing." My argument isn't about the no-lynch thing anymore. It's about the fact that Oli in my opinion wasn't even remotely the most suspicious person, and you guys should not have pursued that lynch. That simple.

"I'm not going to continue... ect ect, till you slow down." This made me laugh. Slow down? I'm not the one who triple posted to get my responses all in? I don't think we could "know" anyone is townie to be fair, just levels of suspicion. You were blinded and narrow minded in your choice, and now we've paid for it. Enough said. It's not a debate, as you have no argument nor point to make. You're just responding with non-sense about how I'm wrong concerning a debate which you have obviously already misunderstood. Civil, if anything I believe it is you that should "slow down." Think about your posts before you just submit them. I know you'd like to get your pretty little last words in, but if you'd take a minute and think about what you're saying before you post, you wouldn't have to do a triple post. Truthfully, right now you're just pathetic and you're waisting my time. So unless you have something to discuss, then we're done here.

[Civil Scum]

I meant "slow down" because everything explaining to you why a no-lynch would have been worse in that situation has been spelled out for you in terms a monkey could understand prior to this point in the game.

You're just responding with non-sense about how I'm wrong concerning a debate which you have obviously already misunderstood.

Yeah, good one sport.

Civil, if anything I believe it is you that should "slow down." Think about your posts before you just submit them. I know you'd like to get your pretty little last words in, but if you'd take a minute and think about what you're saying before you post, you wouldn't have to do a triple post. Truthfully, right now you're just pathetic and you're waisting my time. So unless you have something to discuss, then we're done here.

Umm..you play this game to be condescending and to insult the other players?

It's about the fact that Oli in my opinion wasn't even remotely the most suspicious person, and you guys should not have pursued that lynch. That simple.

Oh, see, I missed the part where you completely fuckin changed what was being discussed...
And if this is ture, well then, where the fuck were you?

You were blinded and narrow minded in your choice

The only time someone isn't responsible for votes placed on them is RVS.

While I don't completely agree with Olinea on this, there is definitely some truth to that, but yeah Neil, you're right, the mislynch was all my fault. It doesn't take 5 votes to lynch someone. Being an IC, I should lead the town around and play a perfect game every time. The mislynch was all my fault.

You're being very condenscending and distracting. And this is not going to help us at all.

[Civil Scum]

Silverbullet has played a remarkably clean game. If he's scum, then he probably deserves to win.

If Nevermind is scum, then my theory is that he didn't actually win. I don't think scum should get credit for a win in a game if they lurked the whole time. You shouldn't be able to win a game by not playing it. So if he's scum, ah well, he didn't really win.

If it ain't Razgriz, then Neil is scum with Yoenit or Caterpillar.

Neil, even though you are annoying me greatly at this point, I'm going to end up agreeing with you at the end of this post.

Also Civil, could you please restate your case against Yoenit? Because right now if I've read correctly, it's because he made a good call with bad reasoning concerning Olinea, and he had bad reasons to place his vote on you? That doesn't sound like a very solid case to me Civil, one I'd be shocked you would make... which is also why I have to ask what you reasoning is again, just to be sure that this is in fact, it.

1. You're calling the case weak here. How you can claim that's not some form of attack on the case is truly baffling.

And it seemed that you did miss one of the posts. But I'm not about to go and repeat things I just said on the same page. I remembered you mentioning Yoenit, which is why you got scum points for swiveling around and apparently attacking the start of a case on him. That didn't make a whole lot of god damn sense to me.

Which I do believe it was you who brought up Oli in the first place last day phase...

But I can totally see your point Civil in your argument against Raz, though my gut and suspicions say to stay with Ups for the moment. For the records Ups, to clarify a bit why I'm voting for you...

:Golf Clap, for being an ass:

Here:

[Yoenit] didn't want to vote Olinea, based on that [he was] so sure VC was scum, and [he] couldn't see them being scum together... so both of them died and all [Yoenit has] naturally talked about/or mentioned since coming back is [his] V/LA and a disagreement about no-lynching...something doesn't seem right to me about that.

This is not part of a big case or a sweeping game-wide trend in his gameplay, or a giant post listing all the times he BW'd or something, but it is by no means a trivial matter. It is the type of thing that makes it look like his suspicions are not real.

The strength of a case is not based purely on its length and amount of material. Assume for two seconds that Nevermind is the scum...okay, now make a nice big, robust, case, with a lot of depth, for that fact. gg

Now, with that said Mr. Civil. I really do suggest you stop throwing out "scum points" so easily

I asked respectable questions in looking at everybody again. I'm not supposed to be poking everywhere again? That's my response to having two of my suspects unbelievably flip town on me. So, sorry I guess, if a townie is not supposed to do something like that. I'm really very sorry, how do you want me to play Neil?

A newbie game is supposed to be a learning experience. If we lynch Raz and he's town, then Neil will realize that he's not going to be right about everything all the time. And if Raz is scum, then great. So, win/win here I think, is lynching Raz.

Raz has been on every single wagon now that he hammered Olinea. Even times he was one of the first ones. In the case of Yoenit, someone voted Yoenit for lurking, and Raz's next post was voting Yoenit for lurking. He's done that throughout the game with a great deal of consistency. I started re-reading the entire game post by post, and he's had the most mis-steps. All the way back, when he picked Silverbullet as his top suspect and didn't vote, and gave really flimsy "reachy" reasons for naming Silver his scummiest read.

I forgot how I thought it was weird that he called Neil so paranoid (about Raz/himself being scum), yet said that paranoia was the same as a scummy type of paranoia. I forgot how that leap also didn't make any sense.

He put one of the first votes on Nevermind for lurking, and then suggested that we get Nevermind to claim. I don't think any townie wants someone to claim just because they are lurking. They want them to stop lurking and post more.

Razgriz flipped out when Neil used their position on Raz's random list as a point in his case. He really flipped out. Called him "the most paranoid guy ever," and didn't just dismiss it with any level of casualness or calmness, which is all that would be required when you know that it really was a terrible point made by Neil. I realized now in rereading that section, that the reason Raz got so worked up over it, was because it was such a ridiculous, terrible, outlandish, unbelievable point, but Neil was right and had him pegged. That's why it bothered him so much, and why he had scuk a vigorous reaction to it.

Here's a nice post, and one I'm sure Caterpillar will enjoy:
Post 214, page 9

Epic paranoia. You mention ONLY the fact that I used random.org which you believe to be bullsh*t that I made it up. Also bud, I don't see where the scum part on Ups is coming in. One thing I will say is that it is very likely neil is scum and is trying to get Ups lynched who could very likely be scum making neil look town. Just sayin.

Notice the bold-faced contradiction? And the attempt at engineering a mislynch using his scum partner's alignment?

vote: Razgriz

[nevermind]

Civil makes sense, I finally understand.

Vote: Razgriz

[quote="Civil Scum"]
If Nevermind is scum, then my theory is that he didn't actually win. I don't think scum should get credit for a win in a game if they lurked the whole time. You shouldn't be able to win a game by not playing it. So if he's scum, ah well, he didn't really win.
[quote]
However, I find this quote kinda scummy. And this has nothing to do with the fact that he's talking about me, I just think he's kind of "letting me go" or something. A town player shouldn't go "if he's scum, ah well."

Fos: Civil Scum

[Civil Scum]

A little, yeah I am letting it go. The problem is that I don't really think you're scum, but at the same time I don't have any real way to have much confidence about that. Being as I'm atleast leaning towards town on you, I don't want to lynch you for the lukring. Is there some other way for us to get you to post more frequently or larger posts? Or some way to get you to travel back in time and participate more in the key moments of the game, for which you were largely absent/quiet?

Since that hasn't seemed possible to me (and is impossible), and I think other people are scummy enough to be scum and I don't want to lynch you, the best option seems to me to let you go on it, but try to undercut your potential victory if it's been a mistake to not have simply lynched you for it. That's seems the best I can do. Was there some other way to have gotten you to post more? I mean, if you are really busy, no one can make you stop being busy. Out of options.

I obviously havn't done that - "Ah, if he's scum, oh well", with anyone else. Olinea pushed me hard with a case that I felt was decent at first, but began to look contrived after closer inspection, and I did the fair-share of leg-work in putting him in the ground. (Sorry again Olinea if you're watching).

I mean, was there something else I can do besides voting you and pushing for your lynch and see if that will get you more active, or grant you a time-traveling ability?

I don't mean it rudely if you have been busy (and are not a lying scum), and you don't have to answer that. This is just my defense to your point.

[Civil Scum]

Last post and then I'll wait for people to get back. Yoenit, in particular, comes back Tuesday. And I think Caterpillar has some explaining to do.

Because right now if I've read correctly, it's because [Yoenit] made a good call with bad reasoning concerning Olinea...

You can't see why that might be suspicious??? Like, really?

And I still don't understand why you would "question" (or attack, it's just word substitution for the tone and effect of your post) someone who went and started making a case on the other guy you just said was raising your suspicions. And, um excuse me, but "If that's all you can get, then why don't you give up and look somewhere else?" A: Well, if you are starting to suspect someone and want to look into them, then why don't YOU just do the whole damn thing yourself, huh? Why rely on someone else to make the case if you won't be satisfied with any part of it unless those parts were yours? Why didn't you just do it?

I think Neil's glossed over several things (though I'm not going to dig them up and cover them right now) in favor of "keeping his eye on people" while consistently pursuing Raz for almost the entire game.

These are all negative marks in Neil's scumbook for me, and are why I think if Raz flipped town, Neil would be a good candidate after that. Once it became obvious that he pursued, hassled, and tunneled on a townie all game, simply because that townie appeared to be the scummiest player. (Which Raz is imo at this point, don't get me wrong). But for Raz to flip town, it would really look to me like Neil tried to take advantage of Raz's apparent scumminess...all game.

But until a Raz flip, for him to have accused me of tunneling is a town point. As he has appeared to be quite tunneled on Raz, so for him to use that accusation on me would make me think he was less aware of that irony and less aware that he has tunneled, which I would expect more often from a townie than from a scum who would be more likely to know (or be aware) of that. Because it'd be something they've been -trying- to do all game.

[Catterpillar]

My cat's dying so I've had to spend a lot of time taking care of him, I should be able to do my reread tonight.

All of my speculations were surrounding Olinea flipping scum and VC lying so I desperately need to do a big reread.

Whoa whoa there Secretariat

What happened to this?

And I didn't like [Civil] making it seem like I was randomly waffling and

still find the fact that [he's] so certain about Olinea and that [he] got pissy as hell as soon as I mentioned finding [him] scummy. scummy as all fuck.
I'm also frustrated at that. x 3

Forget so soon or something?

Was there ever a time, while you were leaving your vote on Olinea and calling me scummy, when it occured to you that we were maybe the most unlikely scum-pair in the whole game?

I didn't think you were the must unlikely scum pair at all, maybe not a very cooperative scum pair but if Olinea had been scum and you were so intent on having him hammered then it would have been a rather nice cover wouldn't it? However, as he wasn't your being so sure that he was scum gains you a bunch of town points.

Inconsistent? Is that so? Maybe you should go back and reread what I said. My evidence was spoken already concerning WHY I believe they were partners, granted it was spoken lightly in order to give Silver a chance to defend that without a band wagon forming right up his alley. And did you just say it wasn't useful to scum? What does that mean? I don't want to do anything useful for scum in this game... was that a slip up Mr. CP? I agree, Day 1 showed how useless yelling out "You're Scum!" is, but as far as partners are concerned I believe only one person outwardly admitted to thinking Oli and VC were partners. So I believe you're point is invalid here sir. I also believe that you'd have known this, had you checked your facts... and thus you obviously must be stretching for some reason to try and point your finger this way.

You are basing their scumminess on their interactions with one another without [/i]

proof

that either is scum, your points on Raz make sense without the assumption that they're both scum your points on silver don't. If silver isn't scum which is not impossible, you can't be certain, and we lynch Raz he flips scum there is no way silver will be nked even though he might have been otherwise, which would have cleared him. Come up with some points that aren't based on Raz being scum and I'll read it.

Why let someone you are watching know you're watching? Up till this point there's been relatively little suspicion of me so putting me on guard is a mighty stupid thing to do if you're suspicious of me without having anything you find scummy. I put the last part in because if someone was feeling particularly thick they could have interpreted it as me claiming scum.