The Lord of the Rings Mafia - GAME OVER (KABOOM)

[Mariyta]

*fingers involuntarily start typing out a vote for ME*
No, that scum can be lynched tomorrow. He'll probably get NK'd tonight any ways

Your last two posts are making me rethink my opinion on you... Both seems parrotish and fake.

[LimMePls]

If your intent was to breadcrumb then:

1) Why did you not do it until well after you were under loads of suspcion.
2) What purpose does a breadcrumb serve when it is so obvious that everyone can see it?

1. Same reason people don't fullclaim until L-1. Are you suggesting the town should massclaim as soon as the game starts?

You apparently FAIL AT UNDERSTANDING so let me make this abundantly clear.

The purpose of breadcrumbs is not to give away your role to anyone with half a brain reading your post. It is to HIDE a claim to your role that can later be pointed to as evidence when you make your claim that you aren't making it up when you are claiming. I am by no means suggesting town should massclaim as soon as game starts, that is retarded. I'm saying that if you are going to breadcrumb Denethor then you should have A) Done it before you were a leading wagon and may need to claim soon and B) Not done it so obviously that it is a practical name claim and not a breadcrumb at all.

2. Apparently everyone didn't see it. If it was so obvious how come it's been what, 5 pages since I crumbed until it was brought up?

Because some of us have the good sense when we see a breadcrumb (even such a poor one) to keep our mouths shut, and not point it out saying "LOOK LOOK A BREADCRUMB". Just because we all said nothing about it doesn't mean we didn't see it. In fact, the complete silence towards two obvious statements only further shows that people saw it and chose to say nothing about it. And why were you so eager for us to come out talking about it? If it was important to you for us to discuss it right then, then you should have just been freaking name claiming. Trying to call it a breadcrumb makes you either stupid or a liar. Take your pick.

465 and 471 are giving me warm fuzzies.

[Glork]

The "join date" comment is ridiculous, and you know it. That said, there is something to be said about players who have played together frequently being able to meta one another. There are a handful of players (Thok, petroleumjelly, CES) who can read me like a book, and I'm asserting that I can do the same for others (such as inHim).

Feel free to reference this post from Square Enix III. (NOTE: That post references SquareEnix I, where I correctly meta'd inHim as town. In SEIII, I correctly meta'd him as scum. In this game, he is almost undoubtedly town.) inHim isn't getting a free pass merely for a join date. He's getting a free pass because I can objectively say that, based on his posts, his play is much more consistent with him being town than with him being scum. Wraith was wise enough to put a degree of faith in what I said, though he (correctly) takes my words with a grain of salt. You seem more interested in flately rejecting whatever I say by any means you deem fit.


Also, the scenario with inHim's list and your attacks are fundamentally different. You accused both inHim and Kats of posting primarily "fluff." I define "fluff" as "words without a shred of scumhunting/suspicion." I asked you to provide proof, because I don't think that either inHim's or Kats' behavior fits with your basis for attack.

inHim has absolutely provided suspicions. His lists have been largely unsubstantiated, but he has let us know who he suspects, and that's certainly more than "fluff."
Kats has had *some* fluff, but has also provided a very thorough set of suspicions via lists, votes, and additional attacks. I would also argue that, what you call "weasel-words" are a null-tell unless they replace scumhunting altogether.


ME's ItalicsHead, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the following players:
Zwet
Fate/Edge
Jenni
Drippereth

[rewq455]

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

I know this has been said already, but the miller claim makes little sense, and the flavor makes even less. There is little reason to lie, but he most likely is lying. This is definitely anti-town.

[jenniwren]

@Mariyta: I generally start slow, and this is my first large game, and it's moving pretty quickly for me. I also don't have a lot of time, and spent too much time with another game earlier in the week, which has left me less time for others. I caught up with another game the next night, and now I'm working on this one. Also, one of my games has just ended, and I am done in another one, and a third is about to end, so I'm down to this one and two others, and I'll have more time to focus on this one. (And I am not joining any more anytime soon.)

@Nero: Finally you answered.

Hey Nero, why are you only asking Katsuki why LL and I are town...is it because we're the only two on her list that have votes on you right now?

very nice way to discredit my question/defend your scum buddy. Other than maybe Fate you two had the least game related content posts and I find it hard for someone to get a 100% town read off of so little . Now why are you afraid to let Kat explain your towness?

You know, a shit ton of people have questioned Katsuki's list, but you're the only one who specifically questioned why the people voting for them and ONLY them were on it. I don't know where you got that I was "afraid to let Kat explain my towness." I didn't ask her to put me on the list, and she explained a few posts back, or otherwise I wouldn't know why she did.

Also, very lame attempt to say you were only questioning those with the lowest post content because when the list was made, inHim, also on the list, had posted THREE times...once to confirm, once to answer questions, and once to call someone scum.

[LimMePls]

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

I know this has been said already, but the miller claim makes little sense, and the flavor makes even less. There is little reason to lie, but he most likely is lying. This is definitely anti-town.

rewq is scum folks. That is nice to know.

[LimMePls]

The "join date" comment is ridiculous, and you know it. That said, there is something to be said about players who have played together frequently being able to meta one another. There are a handful of players (Thok, petroleumjelly, CES) who can read me like a book, and I'm asserting that I can do the same for others (such as inHim).

Feel free to reference this post from Square Enix III. (NOTE: That post references SquareEnix I, where I correctly meta'd inHim as town. In SEIII, I correctly meta'd him as scum. In this game, he is almost undoubtedly town.) inHim isn't getting a free pass merely for a join date. He's getting a free pass because I can objectively say that, based on his posts, his play is much more consistent with him being town than with him being scum. Wraith was wise enough to put a degree of faith in what I said, though he (correctly) takes my words with a grain of salt. You seem more interested in flately rejecting whatever I say by any means you deem fit.


Also, the scenario with inHim's list and your attacks are fundamentally different. You accused both inHim and Kats of posting primarily "fluff." I define "fluff" as "words without a shred of scumhunting/suspicion." I asked you to provide proof, because I don't think that either inHim's or Kats' behavior fits with your basis for attack.

inHim has absolutely provided suspicions. His lists have been largely unsubstantiated, but he has let us know who he suspects, and that's certainly more than "fluff."
Kats has had *some* fluff, but has also provided a very thorough set of suspicions via lists, votes, and additional attacks. I would also argue that, what you call "weasel-words" are a null-tell unless they replace scumhunting altogether.


ME's ItalicsHead, I'm curious to know your thoughts on the following players:
Zwet
Fate/Edge
Jenni
Drippereth

Kat's lists are crap. They can be summed up almost entire as "list of people I'm buddying up to" and "list of people who I think town won't object to me calling scum" and in both cases Kat neither provided justification for the lists, and in one (when I directly asked for it) flatly refused to do so.

[Glork]

Kat's lists are crap. They can be summed up almost entire as "list of people I'm buddying up to" and "list of people who I think town won't object to me calling scum" and in both cases Kat neither provided justification for the lists, and in one (when I directly asked for it) flatly refused to do so.

Like ME, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not conducting an analysis of the lists themselves. I'm conducting an analysis of "suspicions presented versus non-scumhunting-related words posted."

[rewq455]

Vote: Zwetschenwasser

I know this has been said already, but the miller claim makes little sense, and the flavor makes even less. There is little reason to lie, but he most likely is lying. This is definitely anti-town.

rewq is scum folks. That is nice to know.

Want to say why?

[LimMePls]

Because only scum want to waste today with lynching Zwet. Zwet is for a vig kill, or barring that we can lynch him later. What purpose does lynching Zwet serve today? Do you think he was scum gambiting with Arwen=miller claim? Why would scum pick Arwen to claim as miller, when anyone with half a brain is going to question that miller claim?

It doesn't make sense. So I think your sudden pushing of Zwet once discussion has started heading in a positive direction is scummy.

[Drippereth]

Thing is, zwet truly is scum.

Someone else wrote that long paragraph about being a miller for him, and urged him to shut up and lurk after posting it.

So I can't berate players that call for his death, we may not have a vig.

-DGB

[LimMePls]

Why would someone else write the long paragraph about being a miller? It is certainly in zwet's meta to make ridiculous claims. Why do you think he didn't write it himself?

[LimMePls]

Kat's lists are crap. They can be summed up almost entire as "list of people I'm buddying up to" and "list of people who I think town won't object to me calling scum" and in both cases Kat neither provided justification for the lists, and in one (when I directly asked for it) flatly refused to do so.

Like ME, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not conducting an analysis of the lists themselves. I'm conducting an analysis of "suspicions presented versus non-scumhunting-related words posted."

Do you honestly think Katsuki's posts in this game have contributed in a strong way to scum hunting? Do you think the lists have helped her do that (something that Kat claims the lists are there to do)?

Kat claims the lists are there to organize her thoughts (yet puts herself on the list. Why someone needs to organize their thoughts about there own alignment I have no idea) and to scumhunt (I'm not sure how one uses a list to scum hunt, and I certainly do see how Kat is doing so).

[rewq455]

Why would someone else write the long paragraph about being a miller? It is certainly in zwet's meta to make ridiculous claims. Why do you think he didn't write it himself?

I think the whole reason that he does them is so that he can do them and he won't get lynched because it is his meta. My vote stays.

[LimMePls]

@rewq: Fake-claim from Zwet means he is A) scum B) town C) null? Also, why are you answering the question I asked DGB and not the ones I asked you?

[Wraith]

@rewq: Fake-claim from Zwet means he is A) scum B) town C) null? Also, why are you answering the question I asked DGB and not the ones I asked you?

Town have no reason to fakeclaim miller.

[Katsuki]

Does town ever have a reason to fake-claim lyncher?

[Katsuki]

I thought I unvoted. Whoops. UNVOTE: gandalf

TOWN:

Katsuki
Glork
LockeL
Jenniwen
Fate/Edge
Katy
CES
Dripperith

While I agree with most of this list, I want to know why you're so convinced that Jenni is town. She's contributed zilch. If you're going to add rewq to your scum list for contributing nothing, jenni should be on that list, too.

This is because Kat's lists are arbitrary, and not actually put together in any discernable fashion. That's my take on them ayways.

No, Kat explained already why jenn is not scum, as oppose to rewq. Stop BS'ing my list LMP.

[Katsuki]

Kat's lists are crap. They can be summed up almost entire as "list of people I'm buddying up to" and "list of people who I think town won't object to me calling scum" and in both cases Kat neither provided justification for the lists, and in one (when I directly asked for it) flatly refused to do so.

Kat's lists are crap because you're on it

Flips will justify my list.

[Wraith]

Yet, Kat, you have still not explained why VV is on your list. Meta alone is not a good enough reason.

[Drippereth]

Why would someone else write the long paragraph about being a miller? It is certainly in zwet's meta to make ridiculous claims. Why do you think he didn't write it himself?

Yes, but that was an exceptionally WORDY one. That's why I don't think it comes from zwet. I believe a scumpal wrote it for him. Plus, it's not a "ridiculous" claim.

Sounds like you wrote it for him, judging by your reaction.

[SlySly]

...the scum are easily identifiable by their race-claim, and the flavor of the source ties closely to the flavor of the game.

Only scum could know this.

UNVOTE: Drippereth

VOTE: MemoriaEsponia

[jenniwren]

...the scum are easily identifiable by their race-claim, and the flavor of the source ties closely to the flavor of the game.

Only scum could know this.

UNVOTE: Drippereth

VOTE: MemoriaEsponia

Mass-claiming race would really only be effective if scum don’t have fake-claims or can’t think enough to manufacture their own fake-race, the scum are easily identifiable by their race-claim, and the flavor of the source ties closely to the flavor of the game.

I think you took that out of context. ME was making a rather awkwardly worded list, and the subjunctive half of the sentence (consisting of three separate clauses) is modifying the adverb "effective." He's not actually saying that scum are identifiable by their race-claim (etc.), he's saying that mass-claims are only effective if that's the case.

Mass-claiming race would really only be effective IF
A) IF scum don’t have fake-claims or can’t think enough to manufacture their own fake-race
B) IF the scum are easily identifiable by their race-claim
C) IF the flavor of the source ties closely to the flavor of the game.

[Glork]

Kat's lists are crap. They can be summed up almost entire as "list of people I'm buddying up to" and "list of people who I think town won't object to me calling scum" and in both cases Kat neither provided justification for the lists, and in one (when I directly asked for it) flatly refused to do so.

Like ME, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not conducting an analysis of the lists themselves. I'm conducting an analysis of "suspicions presented versus non-scumhunting-related words posted."

Do you honestly think Katsuki's posts in this game have contributed in a strong way to scum hunting? Do you think the lists have helped her do that (something that Kat claims the lists are there to do)?

Kat claims the lists are there to organize her thoughts (yet puts herself on the list. Why someone needs to organize their thoughts about there own alignment I have no idea) and to scumhunt (I'm not sure how one uses a list to scum hunt, and I certainly do see how Kat is doing so).

I'm not worried about Kat for a couple of reasons.
1) I think Kat's putting himself out there. Making full scum/town lists is pretty defining, and it's the kind of thing that will allow most other players in the game to definitively determine your alignment by D3 or so. Now that in and of itself isn't a reason for scums to avoid doing it, but it's not a tactic, but I'm not worried about it on D1 because if Kat's scum, I'll know it for sure by D4 at the

absolute latest

... and probably by D2/D3, depending on who dies as what alignments.
2) To be completely frank, I use lists from time to time to organize my thoughts as well, and I often put myself on them. I don't see why you see this as being a big deal at all. (I'm having a hard time finding examples because 95% of my games are archived, and it's impossible to search users' posts in the archive, and I don't actually use the word "list" every often anyway.)

Lists are extremely helpful for figuring out numbers ("Okay, these people are scum, and these people are town, so there must be X scum among these remaining people.") and looking for associative tells ("X is scum and Y is scum, let's see if I can find a connection to show that they're both scum together.")


Outside of Kats' lists, I'd like to know what you think of the remaining posts/attacks/gameplay. If you want to dismiss the lists, that's your perogative, but Kats has done more than just post lists.


PEDIT: Lots of :words: in other posts, I'll read them and EBWODP if necessary.

[Glork]

...the scum are easily identifiable by their race-claim, and the flavor of the source ties closely to the flavor of the game.

Only scum could know this.

UNVOTE: Drippereth

VOTE: MemoriaEsponia

As much as I enjoy seeing people vote for M.E. right now, you really ought to re-read that sentence in full.

ME says "Raceclaim

is only good if

..."