Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[Civil Scum]

1. I didn't say that his argument was shit.
2. There was no contradiction to speak of.

[Civil Scum]

After I defend my self against a point, it gets worse...

This really is frustrating. I don't care so much about the lynching, I'm just fed up with all the bad reasoning associated with it.

There is not a single valid point against me that I have not addressed. Yet I'm still "avoiding" everything.

[Vinicius Chaim]

I feel comfortable in my position by now, but this whole thing is making me think twice about some people(I still have 3 suspects, but the only one lefting from before is Raz)

-Never
would you mind explaining your (random) vote on me? I really didn't understand how someone who almost doesn't post suddenly votes for the guy suspected by everybody, putting him in L-2

[Olinea]

You are at L-4, Chaim.

[neil1113]

I think he was referring to when Nevermind posted his vote on him.

[Olinea]

Then isn't the person in question, the "Guy suspected by everyone" put at L-2, Chaim? Nevermind's vote did put him at L-4.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Civil Scum (3): Yoenit, Olinea, Razgriz
Razgriz (2): Vincius Chaim, neil1113
Yoenit (1): Catterpillar
Olinea (1): Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (1): nevermind
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): silverbullet999

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Civil Scum (3): Yoenit, Olinea, Razgriz
Razgriz (2): Vincius Chaim, neil1113
Olinea (1): Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (1): nevermind
Yoenit (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): silverbullet999

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@10:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (2:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Catterpillar]

Sorry my darling town folk and not so darling hidden scum, this is the first time all week MS has been loading for me properly at school, I'll be back home from tomorrow so I'll be able to keep more on top of things. If the internet holds out I'll have a post up on the other four soon, if it doesn't it'll be tonight.

[nevermind]

I feel comfortable in my position by now, but this whole thing is making me think twice about some people(I still have 3 suspects, but the only one lefting from before is Raz)

-Never
would you mind explaining your (random) vote on me? I really didn't understand how someone who almost doesn't post suddenly votes for the guy suspected by everybody, putting him in L-2

I explained my suspicions of you in an earlier post, but only fos'ed you since I didn't think it would be wise to put you at L-1. However, now that I think about it, it might not have been so bad. You might've thought you were lynched already, and tell us that you were scum as your bah post.
and what olinea said. you're not at L-2/whatever you thought you were at
my vote stands

[Olinea]

By the way, silverbullet, you lurked

so

hard a couple of minutes ago. What's going on with that breakdown you promised?

[silverbullet999]

Alright read up... though i'm tired
(yeah yeah fluff or non contributing post... w/e)
Basically the whole argument is a bit of a mind screw to me.
I don't quite fully see these amazing connections that are being claimed apparently.
Here's a hint folks... make a big post that's nice and organized with your whole case (supported by quotes or whatnot) for Civil.

-Civil
Your basically deadset on Oli being scum... like kamikaze deadset.
Nearly to the point where if you get lynched you still want to take Oli with you.
Now i Know this is annoying and I apologize, but could you also restate your case in a nice big organized post?
To me it just seems like Oli's vote convinced you... and I can't quite fully see how.

-Never
Post your thoughts on the argument please.

-Catter
If your last post becomes a politician's promise.. I swear I will find a butterfly and kill it tomorrow.

Preview Edit!
-Oli

By the way, silverbullet, you lurked so hard a couple of minutes ago. What's going on with that breakdown you promised?

This is why you don't count on the friggen bottom part with whose supposedly currently reading what...

[nevermind]

If your last post becomes a politician's promise.. I swear I will find a butterfly and kill it tomorrow.

i lol'd

and i'll wait until

Now i Know this is annoying and I apologize, but could you also restate your case in a nice big organized post?

this happens before I post my thoughts on Civil vs. Olinea + <i don't remember>
you guys know how bad I am at reading.

[Olinea]

Yeah, for some reason you got cut out. Now I know not to trust it :/

[Catterpillar]

Razgriz

I'm getting a slightly town read but I don't know, something in my gut is saying that I keeping an eye on him is a good idea (and a caterpillar's gut is not something to sneeze at)

(The rest will be tonight along with a reply to neil, I need to learn about the wonderful properties of trees now.)

[Catterpillar]

Trees are boring.

Silver

-Perverted Caterpie
Hello! Use harden repeatedly and maybe you'll become a butterfly.
Also Read up while you harden.

I regret to inform you that if I became a butterfly I would no longer be able to press the keys as my footsteps would be too light so if you wish my continued participation in this game you should not encourage me in this endeavour.

If your last post becomes a politician's promise.. I swear I will find a butterfly and kill it tomorrow.

You would kill a member of my family over something so small? I had not pegged you for a murderer.

Mostly town, a couple of things stick out to me as not so town though and what has happened you your poetry my dear Silver?

Oops, just realised I forgot to

UNVOTE

when I replaced in >___>

[Vinicius Chaim]

I didn't see the unvotes, so I thought I was in L-2
I'll re-read and try finding your "evidence" never

[neil1113]

V/LA Mod. I've got a big fight coming up, and I really need the money of a victory, so I don't plan on losing. I'll be training in the IU (Intense Unit) for the next 5 days at least, giving me the 5th day as a relax day, so I won't be on during that time. So this is a

V/LA for the next 5 days.

[Civil Scum]

Olinea has obviously gone to some lengths to dig up these things before painting them black-and-white contradictions, without giving much thought to the individual posts. He also had done this when he found people's posts from when my head was turning around, and then presented them saying "That? That's what changed your mind?!" The tone and style of it makes it obvious to me that he's been looking around the game for things to make cases with, for ways to push a wagon. First VC's, then mine. And while, Olinea is doing a good job of this, a townies job is pressure people and lynch them (which requires some effort or "case-building" sometimes), but a townies sole job is not to find evidence and present it in the most vile way possible. When it's obvious you never considered the evidence for yourself, you just found it and used it.

Olinea, what would say to the accusation that you are just trying to get me lynched, you find and present your points only for that purpose?

Silver- The summary of Olinea's case is this: You contradicted yourself.
The summary of my defense is: I changed my mind, in large part due to your deplorable motives.

Neil, hurry back for the deadline, wouldja ???

[Civil Scum]

Well, here we go. Civil finally sees Neil as town because Neil both disagrees with my Chaim vote and with Yoenit's vote against you. Enemy of my enemy is my friend. Note to self: if you want Civil to think you're town, vote with him and attack those who vote for him.

Alright, I call BS on this. Anyways, that's not my point. This goes along with this.

My next 3 suspects would have to be Olinea, Silver (for being too buddy/friendly), and Neil.

Now, if we take a look at his top suspects...

This is slightly out of context, and Olinea's first quote is WIDE of the accuracy mark. Neil was the first person to receive any amount of concentrated scrutiny this game. Coming out of that, which I thought he did pretty well, he looked better for it, not worse. If you had paid a lot of attention cathcing up during your replacement (instead of rummaging through the thread looking for things to pin on people), then you would have seen that that's when I started leaning town on Neil. Long long before the Raz case and wagon. And just because you say "If VC is actually a townie, it's possible that X and Y are scum" DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT run contrary to having town-reads on X and Y. Unless you trust your reads 100%. Which would be unwise to say the least.

Also, Olinea, you misrepresented that point rather harshly. Unless you can show where I said those were my "top 3 suspects."

And who am I most suspicious of right now? I sure contradicted myself there didn't I...

Another question for Olinea: Who are your strongest town-reads, and why?

[Civil Scum]

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Giving someone townie points, and deciding that someone isn't scum, ain't the same thing. Not even close!

I don't know how you visualize it, Civil...

That's not something you "visualize", you "feel" it. Unless of course, you have to visualize feeling it.

Here's my top 3 suspects, pay attention, Post 404:

It is "interesting" that the two top suspects, as soon as they both came under scrutiny and each got more than a couple votes and/or Fos'es, immediately began arguing with each other, and quickly became each other's top suspects. Thats god damn INTERESTING.

My next 3 suspects would have to be Olinea, Silver (for being too buddy/friendly), and Neil. I think that Yoenit, Nevermind, and probably Catepillar are okay. But I really think that one of Raz and Vincius has to be scum (obviously I've been wrong before), and it seems quite possible to me at this point that they both are.

In the next Post, I re-vote VC. So "my next 3 suspects", were not my top suspects at the time, like Olinea is claiming with a torch and pitchfork, they were my 3th, 4th, and 5th. Still behind VC and Raz.

...Fabricate evidence much Olinea??? (If I were your attorney, I would advise you not to answer that.)

Same page, Post 412.

I think if VC flips town somehow then the scum are likely to be Olinea and Nevermind, possibly Yoenit.

After deciding that VC could very well be a townie, based on how scummy of a bad bunny Olinea was being, getting a town-flip out of VC no longer seemed to me to need to happen before this line of suspicion became a better possibility. Then I went after Olinea, and I called Nevermind out on his lurking to get more content from him...

There has never been a contradiction to speak of. Olinea has only chosen to present it that way.

[Olinea]

Okay, and my little "summary of Civil's case", for easy reference.

I am a man of facts and numbers. I recognize that, statistically, Civil has a 25% chance of being scum. And, statistically, he has just as good of a chance of being scum as Yoenit, of Silverbullet, of Neil, or anyone else.

But if we voted simply based on "Throw the vote, cross your fingers", this wouldn't be a game.

We've got to find scum. Two of you who read this message know that I'm after you. You're being forced to lie, play the part of a townie, and push mislynches. And you leave trails. Things that don't add up, because there is a human limit to how meticulously you can cover your tracks. I am looking for these slipups. I'll find points at which your thought processes don't add up. Where you claim one fact even though you said the opposite. Civil put himself under my scrutiny by questioning my L-1 vote on Vinicius Chaim. I dredged up posts where his scum reads became town reads -- notably with the example of Silverbullet, who posted 0 content and became a town read simply because I looked scummier to Civil. Where he calls me opportunistic after drawing fire to me and using it as cover to put Raz at L-1. Where he says you shouldn't dredge up old posts and yet cites me nearly 30 posts back for his argument. Saying "using an attack as a defense is the oldest trick in the book" and then placing a vote to defend himself.

Where we are right now, a townie has no reason to lie. Civil has certainly put his fair share of lies out there.

I think this is the breaking point. I think the Day 1 lynch will either be me or Civil. I've made my case about how he backtracks and criticizes those who backtrack. He's made his case about how he finds my evidence flawed even when it has been boiled down to black-and-white "You said X, then quickly changed to ~X without any good reason" or "You are outspoken against Y, but employ Y yourself". We can back-and-forth straw man every point the other makes. We only have one vote apiece.

So, fellow Newbie 1010 players, I pose this question to you. Lynch the guy who'll make sure scum doesn't go under the radar, or someone who defends himself with

Alright, I call BS on this.

?

The choice is yours.



Also, Civil, I will address your points in a short while. Don't think I'll be sweeping them under the table.

[Olinea]

Olinea, what would say to the accusation that you are just trying to get me lynched, you find and present your points only for that purpose?

You mean why do I find reasons to believe that you are scum and make sure everyone else sees them? Maybe because it is my

job

to lynch scum?

[And just because you say "If VC is actually a townie, it's possible that X and Y are scum" DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT run contrary to having town-reads on X and Y.

Aren't you the one who claimed that, if VC flipped townie, then the team was either Olinea/Nevermind or Olinea/Yoenit? You never claimed to have town reads on us. Perhaps I'm misreading this; could you clarify?

Also, Olinea, you misrepresented that point rather harshly. Unless you can show where I said those were my "top 3 suspects."

You represented them as suspects rather than town reads. Yes, they were not your "top 3", but the fact is that someone like Neil, who was #5 on your scum list, could have been claimed as your #4 on the town list.

Another question for Olinea: Who are your strongest town-reads, and why?

Alright, here's a basic rundown on everyone. Not tiered by suspicion or anything.

Civil Scum

: If you don't know my stance on him, you need to actually read the thread.

Catterpillar/Ups

: Barely any information to get out of this. Most of Catterpillar's reads take middle ground as "slightly scummy" or "slightly town". Neutral read until I get more information.

Nevermind

: Lurking VERY hard. He posts very little game content. I wouldn't be surprised if he were trying to go UTR. Scummy read, but without any content I can't exactly solidify him there.

Silverbullet

: I have said that Silver posts little content as well; the manner in which he posted seemed like "fluff" for his posts. Slightly scum read on him, too.

Neil

: Hard to judge. He's taken a bit of a backseat during our argument, but so has everyone else, really. Logical in his arguments. Town read.

Razgriz

: I don't know what the big case against him is. He seems to be a bit like Neil, except he posts a bit more frequently and not just about whoever's attacking him.

Yoenit

: Logical. You're probably jumping for joy, as you seem to have more ammo for the whole "Yoenit/Olinea are scum" idea, but I get town out of this guy. When people wanted him to post more, he did so. I may be slightly influenced by the fact that our votes are on the same guy.

Vinicius Chaim:

Aaargh. You've successfully drawn fire from him, and I question my votes on him simply because the evidence I found against you was a lot more black-and-white than what I had for him. He still has not posted much of value ever since the L-1, rather "Oh, this getting interesting, I should go re-read", but I would put him in the category of Nevermind/Silverbullet. At least he posts a tiny bit more frequently.

That's not something you "visualize", you "feel" it. Unless of course, you have to visualize feeling it.

I am not going to start an argument on cognitive functions. But your wordplay of "You have no idea how to pretend to be townie" is something I can visualize. They're called town

reads.

I am a visual learner. I learn best from seeing and vision. Judging by this, you learn best fro gut instinct. That is not an attack, I just can't phrase it more... scientifically.

like Olinea is claiming with a torch and pitchfork

Good one. Big bad Olinea's the aggressive rage-fueled wackjob.

I called Nevermind out on his lurking to get more content from him...

If there is one thing I agree with you on right now, it is that Nevermind had better start posting some freakin' content.

[Civil Scum]

And your fabricating evidence?

[Olinea]

And your fabricating evidence?

I don't understand what you mean by this. What do you want me to address?

And no, I am not cleverly denying that claim. I don't know what you mean with this question.

[Razgriz]

Hmm. I have a case to build, that requires me to re-read this 22 page day 1 twice. This is gonna be a long night