Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[Civil Scum]

I'm still gonna wait on his reasons for calling me scum for putting VC at L-1 and then immediately taking his vote off of VC and putting Raz at L-1 without ANY explanation.

You're not supposed to speak your scum thinking out loud

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Razgriz (4): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113, Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (2): Razgriz, Olinea
Yoenit (1): Catterpillar
Civil Scum (1): Yoenit
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): nevermind

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Razgriz (4): silverbullet999, Vincius Chaim, neil1113, Civil Scum
Vinicius Chaim (2): Razgriz, Olinea
Civil Scum (1): Yoenit
Yoenit (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
neil1113 (0): No one
Catterpillar (0): No one

Not voting (1): nevermind

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@10:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (2:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Civil Scum]

I would rather you focus on answering questions then posting fake encouragements like this.

Thats too bad

[Civil Scum]

I'm still gonna wait on his reasons for calling me scum for putting VC at L-1 and then immediately taking his vote off of VC and putting Raz at L-1 without ANY explanation.

Alsright, here's an explanation for you, and for everyone. Raz has been my number 1 suspect on and off. He has the most evidence against him. The other people voting him are some of my stronger town reads. I'd rather vote on the person with the most evidence against him, and the person that the people I think are townies are voting for, rather than leaving my vote and going along with people like Olinea, who appear to be just tacking their vote onto other peoples suspect.

Why wouldn't Olinea ask VC to do what he wanted before placing him at L-1? Ever wonder?

His only recent defense of himself is posting reasons to lynch Raz over him. There are two mafia, and so he should have more than one suspect. If he can only pull evidence against one person, it makes him a good lynch candidate.

Everything about thsi is off. Olinea obviously doesn't know what it's like to be a townie.

[Civil Scum]

unvote

TBH Yoenit, I haven't read most of that post yet, because I immediately read the part about my double voting for VC. Since you missed that that was obviously, and had to be, a joke or in jest, I doubted the perceptiveness that would exist in the rest of the post.

[Civil Scum]

[quote="Yoenit"]
Now all of a sudden Civil Scum seems to think Vinicius Chaim should not be at L-1, while he tried to put him there himself a few posts back. Instead he starts attacking Olinea for voting VC, using "he is just a newbie, he can't play the game very well yet" as a defense argument.
[/qutoe]
The only real reason I didn't like VC at L-1 was because of the way Olinea did it. And that didn't happen until just then.

[Razgriz]

Ok was that just a flip flop or did you take that off for some reasons you don't want to state?

[bird1111]

Giving you all a two hour extension to 10:00 AM EST/2:00 PM GMT due to the fact that I'm extremely unlikely to be awake for the current deadline.

[Olinea]

Why wouldn't Olinea ask VC to do what he wanted before placing him at L-1? Ever wonder?

Go scumhunting. Prove your usefulness to the town; dissect posts and show why someone else is a better lynch candidate than you.

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Oh, wait.

I've got conditions to take it off. The ball's in his court.

Handing over responsibility for your vote to the person you're voting...

The only time someone isn't responsible for votes placed on them is RVS.

[qote="Civil Scum"]

I see how they're different, yeah. But if I was 100% sure that he was scum I'd have put this up a long time ago.

Misleading. When did I (or anyone for the matter) say you have to be 100% sure about anything?[/quote]

Just before you said this, you said VC being able to do that would convince you that he would be useful to the town, not that you wouldn't think he was scum. You see how those things are different?

Misleading? I answered your question straight-up. No amount of secondhand evidence can fully convince me that someone is scum or town, even if they claim to be scum, claim someone else is their partner, and then predict the next two nightkills. My 100% statement was because VC had the potential to get me off of his back for a while and dispel a few scummy reads I'm getting from him, and because I can't be sure that he is avoiding dissecting someone else because he's having newbie difficulties or because he thinks it'll incriminate him.

VC isn't in terrible danger right now. I'd like to see a post from him, but I understand IRL obligations may impede that.

[Yoenit]

Giving you all a two hour extension to 10:00 AM EST/2:00 PM GMT due to the fact that I'm extremely unlikely to be awake for the current deadline.

Last time I checked we still had 8 days. Wrong game perhaps?

I changed it now while it had occurred to me both so that I wouldn't forget it and to give you all an early warning.

[Olinea]

Nah, he's got the right game. Check the first post.

[Civil Scum]

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Giving someone townie points, and deciding that someone isn't scum, ain't the same thing. Not even close!

What were the scum points VC got, in your book, over the scum points that say, Raz, got? Why'd you chose VC and not Raz? Especially if you only think VC is scummy to the degree that he could get quickly get town points and get your vote off of him? Why didn't you even that request from him before you voted, and then given him time? Instead of putting him in an immediate lynch situation. You don't want to, or don't have to, or don't care to, hear what he has to say do you? Why not?


And actually, yeah you did give a misleading answer. You defended yourself against a point of mine on the basis that I was acuusing you of not being a 100% sure about something. Which was not implied in my post at all.

[Civil Scum]

Yoenit: If I were distracting from Raz and VC, to save (?) one of them, then that means I would have to be scum with one of them. Which makes sense that way, but it wouldn't make sense that those were the two people I either started pushes on, or encouraged pushing. Which doesn't make a lot of sense.

"Unless, well, unless this is what you all wanted us to think!"

[nevermind]

I'm kinda confused. Can someone that's voting razgriz point out his important posts or summarize his actions, so I don't have to reread this whole thing again?

[neil1113]

Nevermind,

Go to the bottom where the "submit" and "preview" buttons are, and directly under that click on "Display posts by user:" and scroll to my name then click go. Look at a couple posts back where I stated my reasonings behind Raz. I think so far, I've made one (if not the only) of the only strong cases against him. I also don't appreciate you being so absent the past couple of days. You haven't really said much, and you're the only one not voting. It makes me wonder if quite possibly, the town is going the completely wrong way and the REAL scum are just "passing" by.

What I mean is, remember the suspicion on Ups? Well once CP came in, all the suspicion was gone. My two most suspicious figures were Ups and Raz, but I gave the suspicions against Ups out of my mind to give CP a clean slate so to speak. Maybe, I shouldn't have. Considering, CP hasn't said much except (like Ups did), tried to make me look scummy with a lot of words (but no real argument) which isn't exactly a townie action. Maybe I overlooked that last time, and didn't give it as much attention as it deserved.

Also, Civil it'd be very unwise to not answer Yoenit's questions when Yoenit actually did bring up some excellent points. That doesn't help your case of presenting the fact that you're town (if you are.) And your very last post, you seemed to have answered yourself. So I'm not exactly sure what you were getting at, unless your point was to present a possible argument against you, then disregard it so that nobody would actually question you concerning that? And (if I read your posts correctly), I believe you stated that Raz is still the most suspicious person to you. Which makes me ask, then why did you take your vote off of him?

Another question, where has Silver been?

[Civil Scum]

It makes me wonder if quite possibly, the town is going the completely wrong way and the REAL scum are just "passing" by.

Very nice, Neil. It is good to at least be aware.

I believe you stated that Raz is still the most suspicious person to you. Which makes me ask, then why did you take your vote off of him?

Raz asked this too I think. I was hoping it would be obvious. I have nothing to hide. So if you've followed my posts, it's obvious that maybe I'm considering voting Olinea first.

Also, Civil it'd be very unwise to not answer Yoenit's questions when Yoenit actually did bring up some excellent points.

No, that's my point. They are not "excellent."

All this "flipin", "floppin", "switchin", whatever words are used, one can assume that if I were scum I wouldn't do that because it'd attract attention, whereas if I'm a townie then I don't have to worry about it. "Unless, but...unless that's JUST what you want us to think!"

After Yoenit looks at it for a little, it will become obviously that all his points and concerns boil down to this. And if that theoretical type thing is all you have, then you don't have very much.

For example, he's accusing me of perhaps deflecting the vote from Raz to Vincius. What is that? Now, if VC filpped town, or worse for me, after Raz flips scum, then I'm in hot water, then he he really has something. Otherwise all this theoretical and assumed reasoning is just hypothetical and doesn't really "exist". It is indefensible, and once it is the primary basis for your case or your vote, you'll find that nothing can solve it, and you actually don't know anything.

[Civil Scum]

Did Caterpillar finish getting up to speed yet?

[Olinea]

Yeah, I probably shoulda told him that scumhunting and picking people apart would get him townie points.

Giving someone townie points, and deciding that someone isn't scum, ain't the same thing. Not even close!

I don't know how you visualize it, Civil, but I try and read people on a scale from "Not scum" to "Why haven't we lynched him already?". If you act like a townie by scumhunting and defending yourself instead of rolling over and saying "I'm gonna get lynched, town is -1", I am inclined to believe to that you are townie. You appear to be dealing with extremes and definites, either "town" or "scum", no middle ground. Yes, in this game, there is no "semi-town" or "semi-scum". But I am playing while keeping in mind the fact that there are no "definitely town" or "definitely scum" unless you're a Cop, and it's day 1.

What were the scum points VC got, in your book, over the scum points that say, Raz, got? Why'd you chose VC and not Raz? Especially if you only think VC is scummy to the degree that he could get quickly get town points and get your vote off of him? Why didn't you even that request from him before you voted, and then given him time? Instead of putting him in an immediate lynch situation. You don't want to, or don't have to, or don't care to, hear what he has to say do you? Why not?

He's been contradicting himself very consistently.

and you're falling in your own accusation, I didn't see you point your finger to anyone but me...(correct me if I'm wrong)

and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon? -

Look at their motives for joining, and question them. If they're town expect them to work off of evidence, if they're scum expect them to try to mislead.

Sorry to see you go Spadille. Best of luck surviving in the wilderness.

VOTE: unvote Spadille, Vote Vinicius Chaim

Just a placeholder for now, as my vote on Spadille was random and it would be rude to have a replacement enter the game with such a vote on him. Picked VC because he voted on me (screw you argument), was the third voter (scumtell ahoy!) and doesn't seem to have posted much yet.

bandwagon is really scummy, and I knewI'd be accused of it when I voted, but, at least until now, I don't regret my vote, you still are my top suspect so far

There was also the thing with "What is bandwagon?" "Bandwagon is really scummy", but that was taken care of.

And actually, yeah you did give a misleading answer. You defended yourself against a point of mine on the basis that I was acuusing you of not being a 100% sure about something. Which was not implied in my post at all.

I said "yeah". That means "yes". Your question demanded a yes/no answer.



And I'd think if Raz flips scum I'd be the one in hot water, since I'm openly saying VC is scummier than Raz to me. If VC got lynched and flipped scum, you'd be in trouble, Civil.



Anyways, I'm done discussing that vote until Vinicius comes back and either posts a scumread of someone other than Raz or he dodges it and says something that doesn't pertain to the request.

[silverbullet999]

Another question, where has Silver been?

Classes for today and my oh my what a busy day this is...
and for better or worse (probably worse), I don't have much to comment on atm... (then again I just read the stuff... not absorbed and analyzed it)
Basically I still haven't cleared Raz in my mind... and this probably is bordering a lil on tunneling... (sowwi?)
but... yeah... I don't really see civil being scum yet...
and if raz flips town (if he get's lynched) then I've got a bit of reading to do.
But for now (as I'm ever busy and such now)...
Raz is my.... ummm.... suspect.
(was gonna try to come up with a better word.. but couldn't)

[Vinicius Chaim]

well Oli, I have two points for you about your frequent ask for my scumhunting, while you're doing nothing about it...

1) I always have a busy week, I only have time to long reads and big posts in the weekend(when I did raz analysis)
2) I had only accused raz till now cause he's the only "very" scum read by now( I have another two slight town read, maybe they get an analysis in this weekend[or not =P]) and I'm not experienced enough to read every "between lines" tells...

[Vinicius Chaim]

in point 2, I meant slight SCUM read

[Civil Scum]

If you act like a townie by scumhunting and defending yourself instead of rolling over and saying "I'm gonna get lynched, town is -1", I am inclined to believe to that you are townie.

Yet...you believed he was a scum before you offered him the chance to do this.

[neil1113]

If Raz flips town, I've got some reading to do as well. I would be truly shocked though. As for Chaim, I'm not as convinced he's scum as I am Raz so if Chaim gets lynched and turns up town, I'm going to have a new respect for Civil.

[Olinea]

well Oli, I have two points for you about your frequent ask for my scumhunting, while you're doing nothing about it...

1) I always have a busy week, I only have time to long reads and big posts in the weekend(when I did raz analysis)
2) I had only accused raz till now cause he's the only "very" scum read by now( I have another two slight town read, maybe they get an analysis in this weekend[or not =P]) and I'm not experienced enough to read every "between lines" tells...

1) Then the vote stays until you do. I completely understand IRL obligations, I'm swamped for midterms as it is and I have no idea why I'm on right now. Addicting game, I guess :/
2) You're talking to someone without any experience, either. Only way to get better at tells is to put 'em out on the table. My tongue thing was probably the worst idea to grace this thread, but it refined what was a good point for me.

If you act like a townie by scumhunting and defending yourself instead of rolling over and saying "I'm gonna get lynched, town is -1", I am inclined to believe to that you are townie.

Yet...you believed he was a scum before you offered him the chance to do this.

I believe everyone is a little bit scummy, as I have no way of knowing who is and who isn't.

[Civil Scum]

Please read this quote from Olinea

The vote was placed because he analyzed only one person. As I keep saying, ferreting out one scum is helpful, but doesn't end the game. There are two of 'em out there, and if he can only get evidence against one, it shows he's holding back. There are still seven more people he could dissect. A "Top 1" list, in my book, isn't very useful because you're essentially saying "If we get one scum, we win".

Townies out there, ask yourself this question and see that Olinea is not on your team:

Is your vote not a "Top 1" list?

This is not correct, when I started writing the argument I thought VC was scum, but I later realized that would make no sense...

Does this finish '...if Civil is scum'?

In other words, me being scum is based on shit you don't know?

Nevermind: Only becasue you're an SE will I speak to you thusly -You are lurking like a mutha fucka.