Mini #1007 (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Also, I'm curious how much everybody thinks we should care about Hoopla's tracker result on KKN.

It's a "meh" thing for me. If scum can choose who submits the kill -- and apparently they can -- No Action results are null.

The martyr card has become kind of a null thing for me at this point; I think it was too easy for him to play it yesterday, and even easier today. I'm actually surprised that Hoopla placed so much stock in it.

What do you mean by "easy" here?

[redtail896]

Also, I'm curious how much everybody thinks we should care about Hoopla's tracker result on KKN.

It's a "meh" thing for me. If scum can choose who submits the kill -- and apparently they can -- No Action results are null.

While I more or less agree, given that G&H was the other mafia member, I just can't ignore it completely. It's not an overriding feature in my thoughts, but it does exist.

The martyr card has become kind of a null thing for me at this point; I think it was too easy for him to play it yesterday, and even easier today. I'm actually surprised that Hoopla placed so much stock in it.

What do you mean by "easy" here?

VRK had been relatively quiet the whole game (particularly before yesterday). He was always in the background of suspicion, and is in a 5 person 1 mafia situation. It's relatively easy for him to play the martyr card, compared to somebody the group is newly suspicious of. I understand that giving up is generally seen as town, but in his situation I think that it's easy for scum to look like they're giving up. That's all I meant.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Redtail and Equinox, I want you to think about what you're saying. If I am the last scum left, and I'm asking for my lynch, then the game is over. There's no way this is a 4-scum mafia game, can we agree on that?

If I'm town, and I'm asking for my lynch, it's because I was too quiet the first few days, got a LOT of suspicion, and realize that I am going to be a detriment to the town in endgame.

Either way, lynching me is a pro-Town move. It's the best move to make at this point while the move is still possible. If you wait until LyLo you'll always have a nagging doubt about whether I'm town or not. The fact that you're both still discussing this, especially you redtail, means that I should be the one to go. It's not a martyr card, it's the most logical play.

[Equinox]

The WIFOM you're making here is

vicious

.

The only way we can actually find out the sincerity of your martyr card is to lynch you, but the very nature of the card makes us not want to do that. Like you said, it's a very pro-town move, and our top priority is to lynch scum, not town. I'm just rather hung up on this because I know scum would be very averse to suggesting their own lynch at this point, but the move is so pro-town that it's an attractive prospect.

Sigh... I may be ready at this point to oblige your request. I'll think about this and get back to it possibly tomorrow.

[Equinox]

Bad news.

I'm going to be out for most of the day tomorrow, so I'm not sure how well I'll be caught up by Monday morning, which is the deadline. What I'm going to do is sleep on this thing between Kid Know Nothing and Vel-Rahn Koon and then decide in the morning before I leave; I will resume my reading and whatnot when I return tomorrow evening. Hopefully I'll be more solid about this by then.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The WIFOM you're making here is

vicious

.

The only way we can actually find out the sincerity of your martyr card is to lynch you, but the very nature of the card makes us not want to do that. Like you said, it's a very pro-town move, and our top priority is to lynch scum, not town. I'm just rather hung up on this because I know scum would be very averse to suggesting their own lynch at this point, but the move is so pro-town that it's an attractive prospect.

Sigh... I may be ready at this point to oblige your request. I'll think about this and get back to it possibly tomorrow.

Ok, stop thinking and just do it already. There's nothing to think about. If you have any doubt about me, you should lynch me today WHILE IT'S NOT LYLO. How hard is this? Geez people come on already. I can't imagine we have more than 2 or 3 days before deadline as it is.

Yes, top priority IS to lynch scum. But, if you don't lynch me today, how easy is it going to be to pick between me and whoever else is the top contender tomorrow?

[Equinox]

MOD: What time is the deadline?

Going to do some reading. Will decide on this later.

[Espeonage]

Just over 17 hours from this post.

[Equinox]

Oh, awesome. Thanks!

[redtail896]

Alright. I'll vote before I go to sleep tonight. Just some thoughts real quick (since I suspect I'll be the lynch tonight):

1. For reasons I've stated, I don't think CA is/was scum. Against this is Hoopla's logic, AGM's logic, and my attempts so far to read Equi based on meta. I'm still unsure of this last one: I'd like to see more Equi thoughts soon. However, I understand people wanting to lynch CA/Equi based on the reams of scummy stuff that spot has done.

2. By extension from above, AGM should be cleared of suspicion. Despite the logical extension, I'm less sure of this; others should research this if/when AGM survives to D5.

3. All of this is clearly biased by the fact that I'm probably overvaluing the tracker result on KKN.

[Equinox]

Okay. I think I've finally settled on my WIFOM. Vel-Rahn Koon isn't the play today. I base this on my own experience where I did the exact same thing. I'd stated an intent to hammer, and Vel-Rahn Koon didn't attempt to wiggle out of his lynch. The WIFOM leans more toward sincerity than gambit at this point, even though Vel-Rahn Koon didn't self-vote. (I have a feeling he has a good reason why, too.)

redtail896 is close to confirmed town, now that I've seen Hoopla's Day 3 trap.

Process of elimination leaves AlmasterGM and Kid Know Nothing.

I believe I said before that I was swayed by AlmasterGM's argument when I was observing. I still am, and looking through AlmasterGM's posts, he's actively hunting scum, and his cases against Zachrulez and Good and Honest don't feel like bussing to me.

Kid Know Nothing's lack of votes is annoying. Also, I don't like the WIFOM. The thing with Kid Know Nothing being aware of Good and Honest's meta: Unless Kid Know Nothing is an alt or browses MD, he couldn't have known about that aspect of Good and Honest's play. AlmasterGM makes a good point when he says that's not something that one easily thinks of out of the blue (unless Kid Know Nothing himself has been in that situation, but that appears unlikely based on his posting here).

I don't have the time to question Kid Know Nothing about this, so I'm solving this with a hammer instead.

Let's do this, then. If I screw this up, well, I'll eat my hat.

VOTE: Kid Know Nothing

[Kid Know Nothing]

Lynch me, before the day ends please. It's the only way to end this with a lynch before deadline. I am not scum but I also don't want this to get into a four person kind of deal tomorrow. If needed, I'll hammer myself.

I'm not scum. I have no meta on G&H, just an assumption about his play today. I never said I had meta on G&H, in fact I thought I made it clear that I thought that way because of his play in this game. As for you WIFOM? Meh. I don't really see how it's WIFOM. It's a valid point against the argument that was being brought up.

[Equinox]

I've already hammered.

...and unless Kid Know Nothing is being evil scum, that means I screwed up. /sigh

I'll be rereading overnight, then. e_e

[Kid Know Nothing]

I thought that Redtail unvoted, meaning I'm at L-1?

[Equinox]

redtail896 was voting Vel-Rahn Koon.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Equinox, why AGM? I get a town read due to Zach interactions. Your post 835 tends to put you in a bind, since you're clearing everyone except yourself if this game goes to a Day 5, and from that I'm again putting town points in the CA/Equinox column as I don't see that as a scum move. From my PoV, KKN has to be the last scum.

[redtail896]

I did unvote VRK. So it should be a lynch. Just to make absolutely sure though:

Vote: KKN

[Espeonage]

End of day Votecount

3 -

Kid Know Nothing

- Vel-Rahn Koon, AlmasterGM, Equinox (Lynch)

Not Voting: redtail896, Kid Know Nothing

It had been a slow day, but in the end everyone decided that KKN had to die. He didn't even try and put the blame on someone else. He just took it trusting that his death woud serve a greater purpose in the grand scheme of things. The four remaining people did the usual procedure. Inside his jacket they found a wide array of things. If you class different coloured lint as a new thing.

Kid Know Nothing - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 4

It is now night. You have 48 hours to send in any actions.

[Espeonage]

You all wake up this morning feeling amazingly happy. None of you are dead. You do a headcount anyway just to make sure. Seems like the bad dudes decided not to try anything fancy.

Back to work.

Deadline is two weeks from this post.

[Equinox]

VOTE: No Lynch

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: No lynch

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I realize that we have to No Lynch here, but I want to let redtail chime in as well.

I'm not happy about being taken into LyLo against my wishes. I think it was a big mistake and I think that the last scum has to be Equinox at this point, because you have to take a scummier-looking player than yourself into lylo, so that you can mislynch. As I've said, redtail is obvtown, and I don't think AGM is scum. Equinox forced a LyLo situation with me in it by lynching KKN, ESPECIALLY AFTER I ASKED TO BE LYNCHED YESTERDAY. The discussion about my "martyr" posts started early enough (3 or 4 days before deadline) that we could have switched to lynch me. The fact that Equinox took KKN out says to me that she's the last scum and is trying to make sure there's someone who she can work against.

[Equinox]

I'm not going to lynch you. At all. I've stated that already.

[Equinox]

EBWOP: Happy birthday, AlmasterGM!

I'll let redtail896 chime in before I respond further. There's a thought I'm holding onto here.

[Equinox]

Triple post for additional thought.

If it's LyLo between Equinox and Vel-Rahn Koon, you know what's going to happen, right? Scum decides the hammer. Then again, I can say that only because I trust the content of my role PM...

That does sound tasty, doesn't it, scum?

AlmasterGM: Anything you want to add? Your last post was on the 16th. (I can wait until after redtail896 contributes.)