Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[nevermind]

I'm sorry for lurking, this game is going faster content-wise than I'm used to.
I will try to catch up on what I missed.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Razgriz (2): silverbullet999, neil1113
Vinicius Chaim (2): Yoenit, Civil Scum
Yoenit (1): Ups
silverbullet999 (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Vincius Chaim
Ups (1): Olinea
Civil Scum (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one

Not voting (1): Razgriz

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Razgriz (2): silverbullet999, neil1113
Vinicius Chaim (2): Yoenit, Civil Scum
silverbullet999 (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Vincius Chaim
Ups (1): Olinea
Yoenit (0): No one
Civil Scum (0): No one
Olinea (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one

Not voting (1): Razgriz

With 1 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently being replaced, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 8 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@8:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (12:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[nevermind]

Sorry to see you go Spadille. Best of luck surviving in the wilderness.

VOTE: unvote Spadille, Vote Vinicius Chaim

Just a placeholder for now, as my vote on Spadille was random and it would be rude to have a replacement enter the game with such a vote on him. Picked VC because he voted on me (screw you argument), was the third voter (scumtell ahoy!) and doesn't seem to have posted much yet.

bandwagon is really scummy, and I knewI'd be accused of it when I voted, but, at least until now, I don't regret my vote, you still are my top suspect so far

First thing that I noticed, "bandwagon is really scummy."
So my interpetation of this post (whether or not it is accurate) is "I'll vote for you, even though that would make me scummy, because you're my top suspect."
Regardless of the truthfulness of the statement's assumption that "bandwagoning is scummy," the fact remains that VC just did something he considered really scummy.
This leads to his belief that "VC is really scummy."
Now he also stated that "you still are my top suspect." when he later admitted that his reason for suspecting Yoenit was Yoenit's inactivity.
And since he implies that "Yoenit is more scummy than me because he was inactive," it can be inferred that from his point of view,
"Lurking is more than really scummy."
You got something to say, say it to my face!


Then comes the neil vs. razgriz argument about RVS votes.

My view on this whole argument is that it was unnecessary and was a result of misunderstandings.
Neil, as I'm pretty sure he stated, is not used to starting off with RVS. I think he might have taken the random-voting process too seriously.
And that could lead to him over-analyzing RVS votes, which could be the reason Razgriz accused neil of being paranoid.


Now I believe I failed to see this post:

Sup Olinea. Nice avatar! haha

Interesting catch here in 243. I'm gonna have to look at the circumstances under which he made both comments.

But I have to do this:

unvote

vote: Nevermind

Was that BW discussion thing really the best you could come up with so far? Come on... I know you've played a bit. I especially didn't like it casue it involved completely ignoring
Silver's scum hunting efforts. (Which is excusable if you really thought he was scum, but suddenly voting, on a basis like that, could you really believe such an accusation yourself?)
I also especiialy didn't appreciate it cause you ignored what a couple people think was Razgriz dodging an accusation by misrepresenting and down playing his voting.

Add to this, this fine little tidbit here: Nevermind wrote in another game- "I've played as a mafia roleblocker in an F11 before, and as mafia I just defended townies if they were being attacked by a lot of people..."

You were kind enough to be the first to acquit Neil on his early suspicion-magnetism and general strangeness. And although you didn't outright defend Razgriz here, you went a totally different direction than anything anyone else was talking about. Which is great when you're thinking independantly and figuring things out for yourself...but when the reasoning you attach to do this is so weak and out of place, then it aint such a good thing to rocket off elsewhere.

Also add again how bad a mid-day reason that was to vote Silver, and how little you appear to be doing to try to find the scum.

I think I could accuse you of lurking on pretty reasonable grounds as well.

So about the BW discussion: I had just come out of a game where I had a different view of the definition of "bandwagoning," which led to 10 pages of arguments over what constitutes a bandwagon, which really threw us off track.
And the reason the argument happened was that one guy had 4 votes in RVS (this was a 20 player game) and some other guy went "Hey stop bandwagoning him he didn't do anything!" and I'm like "Yo they're not bandwagoning, it's all random."

And though the situation in this game was not exactly the same, I was too sick of discussing bandwagons and decided to not let the same useless discussion happen.
Now that I look back and comprehend the posts better, I realize that my intervention could have been unnecessary. However, I still think that a post of "Did you think I was bandwagoning you?" had a reasonable chance of leading to an argument over definitions.
And I didn't know what silver had in mind, nor what he was planning to ask after he received razgriz's response to the question, nor how he intended to scumhunt.
And I decided that silver was scummier than you, and I didn't really get any scum reads on anyone else.

And about me defending neil, I realize how you could assume it was me following my scum meta, and I have nothing to counter that.
However, I am not sure of neil's alignment, but since I read him as town, I decided to defend him.



Now I have not been able to slowly read through olinea's posts (maybe his avatar has something to do with it) but I will try to get to that some day.


Finally,

unvote

because I understand what went wrong when I arrived at my conclusion that silverbullet should be voted for.
And also

Fos: VC

and since I'm not very good at reading posts, can someone point out which important posts I missed?

[Yoenit]

Should probably point out that according to the votecount olinea is both voting and not voting at the same time.

Fixed.

[Vinicius Chaim]

Earlier it was for what I thought was mor eparanioa based off an RVS post. Which reminds me
UNVOTE: neil1113

wait, first he was your #1 scum, with your paranoia thing and accusing him of being scum almost every post you made, now, that guys are looking at me, saying I'm scum and so, you just unvote to try staying out of suspicious?
if it made me look scum, it also makes you look so
UNVOTE: neil

VOTE: Razgriz

[Razgriz]

Earlier it was for what I thought was mor eparanioa based off an RVS post. Which reminds me
UNVOTE: neil1113

wait, first he was your #1 scum, with your paranoia thing and accusing him of being scum almost every post you made, now, that guys are looking at me, saying I'm scum and so, you just unvote to try staying out of suspicious?
if it made me look scum, it also makes you look so
UNVOTE: neil

VOTE: Razgriz

No you are not reading my posts. My number 1 scum is/was/might still be silverbullet.

I'm not looking at you. I unvoted because I felt no need for the vote to be there anymore. Is that a crime?

[Civil Scum]

I feel like Raz and Vincius wanted to avoid having to do this for as longe as possible ^^ The honeymoon is OVER!

[silverbullet999]

-Raz

My number 1 scum is/was/might still be silverbullet.

Razzy Dearest...
Where are my questions to answer?
Oh there's none?
Guess I'll ask.
Enlighten me as to how I'm still your #1, and how you still have not pursued it.

-Civil

I feel like Raz and Vincius wanted to avoid having to do this for as longe as possible ^^ The honeymoon is OVER!

I lost you on your change of heart with Vincius.
This post feels like your saying that Raz and Vinc are a scum pair.
Would you mind my Very civil Civil, presenting a case on Vinc, or what made you change your heart?

[neil1113]

Silver's post made me laugh.

Because Raz decided to take his vote off of me, he's obviously scum? Chaim can you please show us where Raz said I was his #1 scum read, or you may have just misread some things... Also Chaim, your play, new or not, is not looking good right now. Could you tell us something to calm our nerves so to speak?

And Civil, I am asking basically the same thing Silver asked you. What made you change heart over to Civil rather then Nevermind (which I believe is who you were voting for before him) and do you still have any feelings over Nevermind? (If you voted for someone other than Nevermind, replace that persons name with Nevermind.) Also if your scum partnering claim comes with little to no evidence (not factual set in stone evidence but at least a good argument), I'm going to be slightly upset. >_>

Right now, my

FoS; Vincius Chaim

but I also have suspicions on Oli (after rereading some of Spadilles stuff, though that could be Spadille playing, and Oli himself I don't really have much to say to. Which is needless to say, why I'm not even going to try and question Oli any.)

[neil1113]

Civil,

You obviously changed your vote over to Chaim not yourself, sorry about that typo. I seem to only mistype when I'm referring to you. :/

[neil1113]

Oh and for my glorious 3rd post in a row, (sorry)

UNVOTE: Razgriz

I still have some major suspicions and I still think he's scum or been scummy, but I am NOT comfortable with 3 votes on him yet....

[Civil Scum]

I mentioned something in my Post 251 about Vincius that really bothered me. I'm not sure if "change of heart" is accurate.

My pair theory is mostly that they are the two most suspicious people.

I still am suspicious of Nevermind, but about half as much as I suspect Vincius.

[Razgriz]

Enlighten me as to how I'm still your #1, and how you still have not pursued it.

I don't think you are anymore(As I semi said in that post), hell I don't think I have a #1 anymore. I'm gonna re-read soon

[bird1111]

Looking for an Ups replacement, as he has not opened his prod PM.

[Olinea]

Then

unvote

.

I'm mostly looking at Chaim as well. Now that the Raz/neil thing has died down, it seems information is just trickling out.

[silverbullet999]

-Civil
Villainous Scum! (I'm just saying the second part of your name...)
Damn you for making me go find 251...

So it is Vinc's confidence (or lack thereof?) that has you feeling him?

-Raz

I don't think you are anymore(As I semi said in that post), hell I don't think I have a #1 anymore. I'm gonna re-read soon

Well if this is the case, (though yes Raz, I'll give you that you semi hinted that it wasn't true) why did you use it as a defense from Vinc?
Why didn't you say instead that your not sure who you think scum is atm (or something of the sort)?
I'd encourage you to do that re-read and start pressuring someone... your actions in my eyes have not helped you.

[neil1113]

Come to think about it, Nevermind, did you even read my argument against Raz? It had little to nothing to do (at the end) with the RVS votes.... It was his scummish behavior, his scummy responses, his scummy defense, and his scummish "avoidance" of accusations that he didn't have an answer to for whatever reason. And Nevermind, your last post didn't have much content in it to help the town. It kinda looked as though you were just trying to post something that looked helpful but when I really read through it the only thing you did was repeat what we've been saying to Chaim, misinterpret the WHOLE argument between me and Raz, and then give a very lacking reason (but a reason none the less) as to why you said what you said to Civil. I'm not saying it looks pure scum because of your last statement admitting you're not good at reading into things, which means you probably skimmed over much of what has been said, but in the same sense that's not much of an excuse. You're pulling on my spider senses....

Civil, I read 251:

I feel a lot better about Spadille's slot and am liking the sound of Olinea. Solid reasonable contributions, appears to be looking evenly at everyone.

Well, I know this isn't much of a case, and I can't expect for many people to get behind this. But I have a horrible feeling about Nevermind based on his meta.

And I am beginning to think that Vincius Chaim doesn't believe himself.

...but other people look like more scum... and now Oli, accusing everybody like a blind-shooter in the middle of the dark...

Accusing someone of being scummy and comparing them to a "blind-shooter in the dark" are two completely incompatible ideas.

I understand now, I must've missed this earlier. You did have a slight accusation towards him, what pushed it to be bigger then the slight accusation you had? You also said Raz and Chaim are the two most suspicious people in your books right now, that's why you suspect they are a pair? If there's not evidence within their conversations with one another or w/e, then as a town member (and leader, as an IC) you should know better then to throw out a theory that the town could get latched onto without proper (or any really) evidence. That seems like you'd be leading the town pretty badly, which as an IC isn't too excusable. But because you know better, I must assume if maybe you KNOW that you weren't leading that good, and that's your plan as the scum? I don't have much unfortunately to back this theory up, because of the lack of posts from you (which is also weird), but again like I said in the beginning, I have my eye on you.

[Razgriz]

Well if this is the case, (though yes Raz, I'll give you that you semi hinted that it wasn't true) why did you use it as a defense from Vinc?

I didn't I said is/was/might still be. Wasn't sure @ the time, but I was leaning towards the not anymore option

Why didn't you say instead that your not sure who you think scum is atm (or something of the sort)?

Wasn't sure at the time as I said in the other one. Will re-read when I get a chance

[Olinea]

I also have suspicions on Oli (after rereading some of Spadilles stuff, though that could be Spadille playing, and Oli himself I don't really have much to say to. Which is needless to say, why I'm not even going to try and question Oli any.)

Did anyone really suspect Spadille? The general consensus was that he was (is?) pro-town.

[Vinicius Chaim]

well, IMO, spadille wasn't scum, but wasn't that townie either...

raz, how could silver be(in that time) your #1 if the only one I saw was you attacking neil("the paranoia" ;p), if I missed something, I'll re-read some pages when I have time

civil, you must be experienced enough to realize what I'm doing, even if it's being a little wrong, and you voted me just because I wasn't that confident till then?
I think it's not enough, please, explain me

[nevermind]

Come to think about it, Nevermind, did you even read my argument against Raz?

not really
sorry, I hate reading 30-line posts.
I just read the first few lines, and thought you were arguing over who was 1st and 2nd in raz's list.

[silverbullet999]

-Gluttonous Never
Read and post thy thoughts

[Razgriz]

raz, how could silver be(in that time) your #1 if the only one I saw was you attacking neil("the paranoia" ;p), if I missed something, I'll re-read some pages when I have time

Because I don't have a #1 anymore. I never stated neil was my #1 scum anywhere

I am going to be re-reading this monster...

[Olinea]

-Gluttonous Never
Read and post thy thoughts

Ooooh, the cordialness has ended. Business time.

[Razgriz]

I'll finish my analyasis l8er as I have to go play some hockey