Raz: Post ???
Don't like the answers that he gave to nevermind's Q's at all. If it was RVS all the time then that would be bad.
As Civil said, Silvers response was OBVIOUSLY a joke. Raz, even if you missed it you'd have to make a BIG effort to try and make Silver look scum. I don't like the fact that you did. Townies don't take "leaps" to try and make someone look scum "to back up their suspicion." If they think they are scum, you should already have some type of evidence, not go back and try and make evidence (and with that, do it by stretching everything REALLY far.)
Raz: (Post 140)
Back all and have caught up. I will VOTE: Yeonitfor lurking. Will post more later.
Yoenit, who wasn't active at the time was a very easy vote to place knowing that there's a small chance Yoenit would be able to respond, let alone come back with something that would make you have to respond yourself. Thus it'd be a "safe" vote if you will.
Silver: Post 151
Silver asks: "Lastly if you are unsure if i'm scum or not... why WOULDN'T you pressure me to get a better read on me?"
Raz's response?
"I dunno. I;m not gonna pull a I'm a noob card because that is cheap. I will say this though: I should've idk why, but I won't now since yeonit is deadbeating."
Nothing.
Rule of Mafia: If you have suspicions over someone, compared to someone who just isn't being active at the moment... why on earth would you change to vote for the man who isn't talking so really can't have a defense, then turn your attention to the man who IS there so he could either be caught as scum, or put a viable defense up to clear him so that the town can move on? By NOT doing this, you only harm the town by forcing them to keep looking at both, while in the same sense making yourself look scum because of the pure fact that Yoenit couldn't give much of a defense at that moment anyway.
Raz: Post 160
"Er what? You WANT to bandwagon? FoS silverbullet"
He calls Silver out for doing basically what he was doing at the time, which was bandwagoning Yoenit. (Civil also notices this and calls him out on it, which then things start to get REALLY interesting.)
Raz: Post 165
"No. I can't control what happens on voting after I vote. I was the first to vote, and one or two others followed which then made it a bandwagon, which was caused by the peeps who decided to vote after me."
Civil takes note of this as well, but I went on to state what was wrong with this post in Post 179: (But fixed, due to me getting the name of WHO did it wrong.)
Me:
"I may be playing this because I got burned last Mafia game I played by this exact situation, if so I sincerely apologize. But Raz, when you try to disguise your vote like that by claiming because you were the first to post, you therefore would have no part to play in the bandwagon lynching of Yoenit (if it got to that point), that just seems super scummy to me. Making it seem like it was a "harmless little vote" (or so thats what it seemed like you were trying to do) and trying to play down the fact that your vote is still one very important vote, and only 5 of those are needed to lynch... makes me think you are scum. Last time I believed it was an "accident" and then I was killed the next night by that person. >_> So like I said, this may just be because I'm scarred by a previous game, in which Raz I apologize and I'll take my suspicions off of you for the moment if you can give a valid reasoning as to why you phrased your choice of words the way you did, but please explain yourself Raz, or else my vote will be changing from Ups to you as the most suspicious person playing right now."
Me: Post 195
I now start to explain why sneaking suspicions are coming up concerning Raz in my mind, while leaving the voting thing off until he explains himself.
"2. Razgriz (I've had a sneaky suspicion from the start ever since his vote for me at the beginning 'what he "claims" is RVS' actually had me look into him more. Also either ironic, or another slip up is that Raz has failed during his listing on pg2, to pay any attention to his partner in crime Ups. He innocently gets a town read from him, not even worthy of getting an investigation from Raz. Then again, why should Raz investigate or question his partner?) SCUM READ"
Now what does Raz do in response to this post?
Raz: Post 202
"Wow dude you really ARE paraniod. You seriuosly thought I decicded to make up a list on my own? Dude that is total overreaction to an RVS vote. I also think someone is made over the read they got from me..."
He says I'm just mad that he said I was scum before, and that I'm paranoid. All the while, failing to respond to my concern about his lack of response to his vote explanation. Also Yoenit brings up a good point in post 205, that Raz said he'd explain more later, but that later to this day has still yet to come...
Raz: Post 214
His explanation to my post again, which he says that I'm mentioning only the random.org thing while conveniently ignoring the suspicion about his post, which he still has yet to explain, and that I'm likely scum. Now here's where things get interesting. At this point I've already called him and Ups out for a partnership, watch how he CLEARS HIS NAME from this issue. "it is very likely neil is scum and is trying to get Ups lynched who could very likely be scum making neil look town" That way if his partner does go down from my vote and people jump on a band wagon, then he will be cleared? Just suspicious to me if I do say so myself. Also he shows little to no understanding that if me and ups were mafia, my point would not to TRY and get him eliminated, especially if there were only 2 of us in the game?
Me: Post 215
I now explain to him why I voted against the Random.org thing, and how I thought it truly wasn't random. I also with this validation, explained why it couldn't be paranoia. I also explained that my vote has nothing to do with his read earlier on in the game, because if so I'd be voting for several people at once, not just him and Ups. Several people questioned me. I also explained to him here the whole "two mafia will not try to get one lynched at the beginning of the game" logic. Now it's at this point in which I truly DO vote for Raz, because of his response not defending himself of any accusations I've made, but just trying to make me look like scum, which is a scum move. Why would a townie try to defend themselves by making another person look scum? Why not just defend themselves unless they have something to hide?
Raz: Post 217
First personal attack of the game. "Paranoid Dipstick" is what he calls me. I'm not entirely sure what a dipstick even is though... He also downright admits he has no proof I'm scum except for the "scumtells" that I was dropping by accusing HIM of being scum, which by the way... is a "I'm scum? OH EM GEE, NO, YOU ARE SCUM!" argument. Very, very dangerous to the town when you do that because you're more then likely (7/9 actually) to be doing this to another townie. Now because of my vote or well "my paranoia" as he says, which in reality is my vote which he makes note of, he decides to vote for me. He says to cover his tracks "it's not my vote for him" even though he says "my vote is just paranoia", but instead he says it's my "paranoia" which according to him, is my vote?
Raz: Post 218
He tells Yoenit he voted for him while he was lurking, as if apologizing. Yoenit never asked why Raz was voting for him? Raz looks to be trying to win over another member of the town to try and hop on the band wagon of votes for me (a few posts back, he even mentions Yoenits name at the bottom of his attack on me, as if saying "yes, Yoenit is right!") which confuses me. Why would a townie, try to befriend another townie to help him out someone, unless the person who is trying to befriend someone else, is actually scum trying to win approval? Also to take note, he still has yet to defend himself against the attack myself and Civil laid down on him.
Me: Post 219
I explained (above) to him basically.
Raz: Post 220
Now he goes into an indepth explanation as to why I accused him. Good right? Not really, listen to his reasoning...
1. Who cares? It's paranoia that's what the accusation is.
(So he doesn't give an answer, just another "You're paranoid!" excuse.)
2. So you are seriously to the point of epic parnoia... ect ect.
(Again, paranoia point. Doesn't give a defense as to WHY he voted, but he does admit that he voted.)
3. Paranoia dude. Seriously as.. .ect. ect.
(Again, his answer is that I'm parnoid. Though this time he gave a slight bit of information as to why he did it, but not nerely enough to be a defense.)
4. Way to insult me.
(I made a casual sarcastic statement, and he took it as a personal insult.)
5. Paraphrasing: You think a 13 year old could really do this by himself?
(My answer was no in agreement with him, which again he took as a personal insult.)
6. Did you fail to notice Civil said my reasons were solid?
(It seems like he again is trying to win over a townie...)
Raz: Post 221
He then tries to clear up why I'm paranoid by listing 5 things, 1 which had nothing to do with the current topic, and 2 that were basically repeats of themselves.
Me: Post 224
I gave in to the reasoning behind the RVS that he's 13 and not really capable of thinking up the mastermind precision that I though was behind it, thus proving that my point may have been invalid. Although, with all this talk about that one point I had forgotten my other points at that time so I let it go and changed the subject.
Raz: Post 226
Now tells me I've brought this to a personal level, because I agreed with something he stated himself. Interesting.
Now you can take what you want from the evidence I've just posted, and make your own assessment from it. I listed the Post numbers as well, so you can see them for myselfs, just in case any Bias was in this from me. I want a SCUM to be lynched, not a Townie who can't play town very well... so I'm bringing this to the TOWN as a general consensus. From what I've seen and what I know, my vote is confidently staying on Raz.
No references to people's mother's though, that is the only rule