Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[nevermind]

i don't like unvoting my RVS vote when I don't want to vote anyone else. deal with it. it's doing no harm, and I'm not actually suspicious of him.

And I don't think stating reads of every player is optimal for the town in general; the mafia can kill off the player who is regarded most townish by the majority of the town. So no, i'm not telling you my views on everyone.
And I'm too tired right now (lol i have many excuses) to understand what's going on, especially with all those theoretical stuff going on

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Spadille (1): Yoenit
Civil Scum (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Ups
Razgriz (1): Civil Scum
Ups (1): neil1113
Yoenit (0): No one
Vinicius Chaim (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one

Not voting (4): Vincius Chaim, Razgriz, Spadille, silverbullet999

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:
Spadille (1): Yoenit
Civil Scum (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Ups
Razgriz (1): Civil Scum
Ups (1): neil1113
Yoenit (0): No one
Vinicius Chaim (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one

Not voting (4): Vincius Chaim, Razgriz, Spadille, silverbullet999

With 0 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently requesting replacement, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 9 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@8:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (12:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Spadille]

I'll re-ANAL-ize the game and try to get some reads and some confirmations. I'll post a vote then.

[neil1113]

While I wait for Ups to answer my questions, Silver, got anything to say?

[silverbullet999]

Well just one...

Spadez my boy

you missed my question as well... thought that post was marked to you... 121

What were you expecting me to say or throw my thoughts into neil?

[neil1113]

Nothing really Silver. Just like to get the people I see looking at this page involved. Still waiting for Spadille's list of review that he's going to be bringing to the table..

[Spadille]

Don't expect it to be damn fast, I'm reviewing each and every detail of you and ups' argument and pretty much everyone's argument.

[Spadille]

Oh and don't mind if I'll "lurk" a little. I am just viewing each and every detail.

[silverbullet999]

neil just so ya know, don't rely too heavily on the users browsing the forum...

this game is always open in my tab... thus i'm browsing it nearly 24/7 more than likely...

in reality that's not the truth

-Spadille...

you still haven't answered my question m8

[Spadille]

What question?

[Spadille]

Oh.

What exactly besides the Never ever for when RVS to end made you so disappointed exactly.

I didn't feel you were serious in answering that, Razgriz told you this and you said he took it seriously. Why not right? So I asked you to this time, answer it seriously.
But I was still disappointed

[Spadille]

Sorry man, I can't finish this today. IRL getting in the way. I'll just give you what I started]


#26 – Neil1113

Also, Ups it seems like you're posting just to get your name out there so nobody can claim you're "lurking", though you bring no valuable information to the town either concerning yourself, or concerning anything you've seen. Granted, it's day 1 so I'm not too worried about this but you're also in my sights. I'd rather not lose this game to the mafia scum, and so I'll be keeping a close eye out on this game.

I have to say, this post also shook me as a pro-town. He accused Ups of not putting quality in his vote, in Random Voting Stage, and to just cancel the theory of the town that he is lurking.

And if I get killed day 1.... I'll be rather mad. But if Civil or Ups really is scum, it'd be a dead give a way (okay, maybe not OBVIOUS but pretty clear) that you're scum

I don’t understand this, what the fuck this does have to do with anything.

Now that I've had my say, continue on with your conversation.

He ended his post this way. Not much of a biggie.


#27 – Ups

Well, we're in RVS and I personally don't understand the Random.org hate when most people tend to joke around with their votes this early in the game.

Explained that he did what others did and why the hell is he the only one Neil attacked. Yes, neil only attacked the IC random voter.


#31 - Neil

the chance of silverbullet actually being scum is 2/9. The only reason I'm going with this, is for an experienced player he 1. Hasn't said anything yet, which most lurking people usually turn out scum that I've realized. and 2. Because he hasn't contributed anything to the town yet, which in this case means if he does turn up town, we're not losing a HUGE asset.

So VOTE: Silverbullet999

He votes Silverbullet with 2 reasons. The vote isn’t random, he tried to explain it and he put on the odds. He subconsciously said that Silverbullet is not a valuable team player.

He then proceeds on questioning Raz’s Random Vote, taking it seriously. It was partly OMGUS because at the moment he said that, Razgriz voted for him.


#32 - Ups

That line sounds to me like you want to appear to be scumhunting, without actually taking a stand. That type of passive play is weak for town.

Ups accused Neil of faking scumhunting without taking a stand. I don’t know what taking a stand means but, every post of Neil is overly reasoned. I MEAN EVERY.


#35 - Ups
He states that Neil is suggesting lynching people who doesn’t actively contribute to the game


#36-#37 - Neil

Well, I just voted before you posted anything. Also, what about it is passive? I was waiting to see everyone post in, before I decide to make an accusation. I'd much rather strategically question people then just go out and say their scum. If they can defend themselves accurately, I have no problem moving on.

He explains that #32 isn’t true.

He then proceeds at telling he doesn’t like RVS, instead he wants logical reasoning than voting here and then.

#37 states that he should get his accusation right.

[Ups]

Thank you sherlock. More or less I'm slightly poking neil and waiting for Raz to reply about his weak case which will be awhile. But surely I must pursue everyone right now apparently eh? Few questions for you
A. You seem to be ignoring a few other culprits who have been flying under the radar and/or have done similar to mine. Any particular reason why you target me specifically?
B. The whole paragraph seems neutral towards me but I thought I'd ask.. who do you find scummiest so far this early? Actually, pick your top two and why.
C. What do you think of neil's slip or miscalculation?

A. The reason I targeted you, as opposed to someone like Yoenit, was because you already have a few games under your belt, unlike him. At this point, though, he might be actively lurking.

B. Hmm... I think at this point, when we have some decent discussion, Yoenit could be actively lurking even if he hasn't logged in recently, or he could have lost interest in the game. I'm going to put him on my suspicious list, at least until he starts contributing or gets replaced. Second, neil still bothers me, although I have less suspicion of him than I used to. I didn't like some of his early responses, but when I look at them again a lot of them look pro-town. Of course he had his slip-up, which I'll address next question. He was, and has been, making a lot of jokes, and I'm not sure how to analyze that. I wish I could answer that better, but gathering evidence and making reads on D1 is tougher than I thought it would be.

C. It could be something big, or it could be absolutely nothing. He owned up to the mistake, and I can't get a read either way from that. I've seen town players make slip ups similar to that and got lynched from it, so I wouldn't read too much into it on its own.

I didn't think about it before, but now that I look and realize Ups has yet to take his vote off of me, I must wonder... is he really just trying to get me out of the picture? If so Ups, I must ask... why? Do I still seem suspicious to you after answering your questions?

As seen above, yes, you do seem suspicious to me, but not as much as before. My vote was placed there simply because I saw no other scum candidates. I don't like how you refer to me in the third person in the middle of that comment, as it seems to be you directly attempting to gain favor or seek approval from everyone else. Finally, while you're free to vote for me, I wish you found a better reason than the fact that I kept my vote on you for a long time, as it's very weak IMO.

As it seems that you're going to be very active regardless of whether or not I have my vote on you, I'm going to

Unvote

and VOTE: Yoenit, as out of all the people in this game he's posted the least content. The point of the vote mainly is to force him to post more, as the more content a person posts the more we have to dissect.

[Vinicius Chaim]

I'm getting a little confused, specially with neil's analysis, so, I wondered if it wasn't his strategy(if he's scum) to confuse townies(or at least the new ones)(it's starting to work with me, if it's his tactic)
and I have a kind of personal experience reason: I used to play a game just like mafia(with some modifications) with my friends at school, some years ago, and, when I was assassin(a.k.a. scum) I used to get very excited about the game, and that's how he seems to be
many posts, specially the long ones, which need much patience, and only a very excited person would have that patience to post long texts like those so often


VOTE: vote: neil

it's not definitive, I'd really like to see neil changing my mind, and clearer analysis would be good(if you're pro-town)

[neil1113]

I didn't think about it before, but now that I look and realize Ups has yet to take his vote off of me, I must wonder... is he really just trying to get me out of the picture? If so Ups, I must ask... why? Do I still seem suspicious to you after answering your questions?

As seen above, yes, you do seem suspicious to me, but not as much as before. My vote was placed there simply because I saw no other scum candidates.

I don't like how you refer to me in the third person

in the middle of that comment, as it seems to be you

directly attempting to gain favor or seek approval from everyone else.

Finally, while you're free to vote for me,

I wish you found a better reason than the fact that I kept my vote on you for a long time, as it's very weak IMO.

#1 Bold. I'm sorry, but I wanted to make sure you knew I was addressing you, as there seems to be a lot of missed questions going on around here (with me included) so I made sure you know I was talking to you. By stating your name, it was the proper way of addressing you.
#2 Bold. With #1 said, you seem to just be stretching to try and find me scum now. I'm not entirely sure why you'd do this if you were town. First, I'm not sure how you even GOT to that conclusion with what I said. Secondly, with what I said rather or not I explained it, that'd be a very stretched statement to assume I'm trying to get everyones approval because of the way I said your name.
#3 Bold. My vote was to make you answer my questions, but now I do think your scum for multiple reasons...
A. You keep trying to bring things around to accuse me whenever the spot light comes onto you.
B. You stretch things a LOT in order to come up with your "readings" on me... which I don't know why you'd deliberately try and convince everyone I'm scum unless I am acting very scummish, which you said yourself I wasn't acting that much to you.

It may not be much, but I'll be leaving my vote here for now.



That said, time to address Chaim.

Vinicius Chaim:

I'm getting a little confused, specially with neil's analysis, so,

I wondered if it wasn't his strategy(if he's scum) to confuse townies(or at least the new ones)(it's starting to work with me, if it's his tactic)

and I have a kind of personal experience reason: I used to play a game just like mafia(with some modifications) with my friends at school, some years ago, and, when I was assassin(a.k.a. scum)

I used to get very excited about the game, and that's how he seems to be
many posts, specially the long ones, which need much patience, and only a very excited person would have that patience to post long texts like those so often

Bold 1. I'm terribly sorry I'm confusing you, if you have any questions please feel free to ask so I can clear anything up that you may be confused over? But no, I'm not trying to confuse anyone. That's why (as you stated later on) that with every post I make, I put a detailed explanation (or try) as to WHY I'm doing it, that way there's reasoning enough so nobody could get confused. Evidentially, I failed at that.
Bold 2. This really doesn't make much sense. If an excited person was typing things, they wouldn't take the time to analyze EVERYTHING about their post. Usually excitement causes impatience. I'd like to think for the most part, what I've shown is patience. Though I would like the game to pick up, just because I don't like dragging things along... and again as I explained above, the long posts are just the way I play. I analyze everything usually, 1st with myself then with other people. If I analyze other people carefully but don't do the same in my posts, I'd seem hypocritical in my own eyes. But concerning your point, can you point me to a specific example in which excitement actually led to patience? If you can't by the way, your point there is flawed.

I hope I cleared things up for you Chaim. I really am sorry I confused you. :/

[Razgriz]

Back all and have caught up. I will VOTE: Yeonitfor lurking. Will post more later.

[Vinicius Chaim]

thanks for answering fast, neil

the second reason I was basing on myself
when I'm excited with something, I have patience to do many things related to the game, but, as I can see, it's not your case(I guess)

and, I understood your point and I trust you(by now)
well, like I said, my vote wasn't definitive, so
UNVOTE: neil
hope you guys don't think I'm scum because of this(starting to think I voted in the wrong person...)

[silverbullet999]

-Raz

Back all and have caught up. I will VOTE: Yeonitfor lurking. Will post more later.

Razzy dearest I'd still LOVE to know A. How my opinion of RVS is a scum read.
and also now B. Why you aren't voting me since I'm scum according to you.

Answer these....

[Razgriz]

-Raz

Back all and have caught up. I will VOTE: Yeonitfor lurking. Will post more later.

Razzy dearest I'd still LOVE to know A. How my opinion of RVS is a scum read.

It wasn't just that. Most of it was the fact that you hadn't been active and I was disappionted in the answers. Also I did take it seriously on the answers to nevermind's Q's

and also now
B. Why you aren't voting me since I'm scum according to you.

It's hard to explain. In one way I feel that you are scum, but in another way I don't have that feeling that I always get when I'm 95%+ sure that they are scum so I'm not really pressuring since the only real scumtells that really ain't much are the lack of activity(Ok so maybe that is bigger than I am giving credit) and the answers to the Q's(Which I took for serious at the time, now not really, although I still don't like em)

Answer these....

[Civil Scum]

Should be caught up with a post by tonight. Immediately I'll say that I'm fairly conformtable with my vote on Razgriz at the moment.

[Civil Scum]

Some of this is old, but I might not have taken as close a look as I should have.

Don't like the answers that he gave to nevermind's Q's at all. If it was RVS all the time then that would be bad.

I know this has been discussed by both parties. But Silver's response to this question was very obviously a joke. Even if Razgriz missed it, the mental leaps
he makes in ascribing a really bad taste to Silver's answer, do not sit well with my taste.

Good reasoning, solid argument and clean thought. But I think you should look at the one who turned off the lights first.

I would also like to know what you meant here.

I have no desire to argue with you

Any argument with a good subject is a healthy debate. This is important, especially in scum hunting.

You saw a team between us questioning each other?

This quote by Neil makes me think he is town. Though I wouldn't be thinking that as much if I knew how many times he really had played the game, or had
a sense of his play prior to this. It's either a very quick recognition of the situation, or genuine 'What are you talking about Spad? He's
after me!'

Early in that part of the game, you and ups were the active players. Your point is not to pick those who are active, so I sensed something strange and a team-up which you might have planned (Mafia QuickTopic)

I'd said before that I could see where Spadille was coming from with this. That is to say, after he mentioned, I could understand feeling
that way about Neil's and Up's interaction. But I don't think I would have read their action like that on my own, before he mentioned it from that angle.
So it does seem to me like he's reaching a little or attemtping to read too much into it.

But, you've mentioned this preference of yours several times by now, in one way or another, and it makes me wonder if it isn't some sort of defensive thing, or aimed at self-preservation

In my theory, team preservation.

It would have been fairly easy for them to plan this sort of thing. But it doesn't seem too overly-orchaestrated. And I trust for the time,
that Ups was honest when talking to Neil. That type of thing seems like it would be SUPER easy or almost automatic, but I wouldn't
try to pin that on two people unless their exchanges sounded forced or atleast one of them were coming off awkward with it. I think
it would be tougher to do that type of early distancing with the other player protecting both scum, to have that roll
out naturally would be tougher than you would expect. Especially for someone playing their first game on MS.
I would expect the mafia more to have a general strategy and agree to play it by ear in this game. I expect that atm anyways.
I'm actually beginning to think that Ups & Neil is a rather unlikely pair. Of course, if they did plan it out, then they have succeded..

My interpretation of that aside, I dislike how strongly Spadille states this here, with this sentence. While buddying (a little) and after talking about
it to some degree (almost seeming like he's trying to "over-give" the statement credibility). In other words, I could see how someone could feel like it could have been a little conspiracy between
them, but I'm not sure I can see how someone would believe it, or use it as a stand alone in really suspecting someone.

You're completely right on this one.

Meaning, Silver is right. You are a scum? If not, enlighten me please.

Here, Spadille missing what he was talking about seems to indicate less than a serious or involved read-through, the kind that
townies have to make to throw out suspicions they honestly believe.

I'm confident that I'm a good contributer so too lose somebody like me in a game I was in, I'd be disappointed.

Yeah well, if you are scum then the town needs to get rid of you :/

I like myself

Lol, that made me laugh. In a positive way though.

Throughout this entire post of Spadille's he has this sort of "xxxxx, BUT" issues
with Neil's comments, with no basis or solid reason.


This point, counter point, -positive- then -negative- way of commenting on neil's posts seems very out of place to me. There's only a few reasons
I can think of for Spadille to be responding to him like that.



Nevermind: I like your Post 98 restating Neil's play so far. While some of his posts have been a bit over the top, I agree with your
read.

@Razgriz:

That's a good content post. Though I have to wonder why you haven't pressured silverbullet more, with a vote for example, even though you had a scum read on him.

I thought this was a good observation.


[Aside] Neil was somewhat making a target of himself. I'm surprised that we didn't have even the start of a real BW on him. A little surprised we haven't had one
on any player yet.


Post 132:

Oh and don't mind if I'll "lurk" a little. I am just viewing each and every detail.

Immediately after post 131, also by Spadille. Now, I certainly have nothing against posting multiple times in succession. I know that
often I think of something I forgot to say, or something else which occured to me, or something to add after thinking about it.
But to come back after 11 minutes and add this...well, that's just a downright odd thing to come back and add. It almost seems as
if he nagged himself into coming back to say this. A little too self-aware perhaps... I can't tell if it's some sort of sarcastic joke.
He hasn't seemed that sarcastic up to now, or if it was in direct reference to something he has been seriously accused of, becuase it doesn't look like it.

Spadille: Your post 136. While it shows good effort, and shows you're keeping up (which can be hard), this post, the quotes and your points, are wandering...
um...freely. Were you coming to any point with this post? Because I think focusing on points and quotes, without having a relatively solid notion
of an involvement with, or an opinion of, the material, is a scum tell.


Vincouschaim: Post 138. I think it can depend on the player. Sometimes I don't like being scum, it seems like a burden to have to lie and make
shit up all game, irl too. I can be excited while being a townie. SOmetimes though, I really don't like being scum. You do though.
I think he could be the type of person who got excited by a town role, there's no evidence or meta that would support the claim that he's
like you or unlike you in that regard, so I think it's a null-tell. He also could just be excited to be playing the game. Some people really
just love the game.

Okay, shoot, reading further to the end of the thread, I see you've retracted the vote on that reason pretty quickly, which a
new scum might hesitate to do so, for fear of looking wishy washy. Which you state openly, but at the same time appear to be trying
to make what you think is the right decision.

Yoenit has been the most lurkish player so far, but I'm getting the most bad vibes from Razfriz and Spadille.
We don't really know what's going on with Yoenit right now, and I'd very much like him to try to post more often, but it
seems like a very easy vote for Razgriz to make at this point. Added to his hesitation to vote Silverbullet after naming him
his number one scum read... Could be something.

Fixed a tag.

[Civil Scum]

And there was a quote-tag-monstrosity

[Civil Scum]

That's how ya do it right there

[Vinicius Chaim]

wishy washy or not, my vote was just to make him explain his posts so far, not to kill him, so he did it, and I didn't have any reason to vote him then.

[bird1111]

Bumping the Vote Count onto the next page.