Newbie 1010 (Game Over)

[Vinicius Chaim]

so, editing my post

3. I think that he/she may be scum or weak mind players(easy to influenciate)

[Civil Scum]

Questions:
- What is forum policy with regards to quoting other posts and length and stuff

I don't believe there is one. You can quote as many posts as you'd like. You can quote the entirety of someone's giant post, and work inside out. I had a person do this to 3 of mine once. There's no maximum length as far as I know.

- What do L-1, L-2 and L-3 mean?

L-1 is when someone is one vote away from being lynched. L-2 means a person is two votes from being lynched. So, right now any player would be at L-1 if they were to get 4 votes.

unvote: Ups

Glad everybody seems to be in. I should definitely take another look at some of the posts so far.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Spadille (1): Yoenit
Civil Scum (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Ups
Yoenit (0): No one
Vinicius Chaim (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
Razgriz (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
Ups (0): No one

Not voting (6): Vincius Chaim, Razgriz, Spadille, silverbullet999, neil1113, Civil Scum

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline Vote Count:

Spadille (1): Yoenit
Civil Scum (1): nevermind
neil1113 (1): Ups
Yoenit (0): No one
Vinicius Chaim (0): No one
nevermind (0): No one
Razgriz (0): No one
silverbullet999 (0): No one
Ups (0): No one

Not voting (6): Vincius Chaim, Razgriz, Spadille, silverbullet999, neil1113, Civil Scum

With 0 not having posted within the last 48 hours, 0 currently requesting replacement, and 0 who have requested to not have their vote counted for deadline purposes; 9 votes would be counted if deadline was now, and therefore it would take 5 votes to lynch. Deadline: September 30th@8:00 AM EDT/GMT-4 (12:00 PM GMT). A countdown to deadline can be found here

[Razgriz]

well, english is not my native language(I think you've already noticed it), so I can't express myself as I'd like to, but I'll try to explain you

I haven't really noticed (lol). I'm glad you can understand us atleast, but it is probably hard for you to get the full message out there (as you already said)

[offtopic]What is your native language?[/offtopic]

[Vinicius Chaim]

my native language is portuguese, but I study english since 2007

[silverbullet999]

1. What is your mafia expeirence (IYHO) Read record
2. How do you feel about transition from RVS to seriousness(IE: How do you think it should be done)? happens naturally
3. What do you do about people that bandwagon? depends on the situation

Scum read mainly because of lack of activity(Although he did say why it's just that you shoulda been checking) and lack of contribution.
Don't like the answers that he gave to nevermind's Q's at all. If it was RVS all the time then that would be bad. Also don't like how he only skimmed. Agree with him on the avi thing. Overall neutral

Yeah thanks... cause I never receive a message when a game actually starts and apparently I never check thus why I'm not here not posting but waiting for that message to come. Also love that your building a case off of my answers to RVS and taking it 100 percent serious. I love RVS but really you get a scum read off that? Somebody's reaching..

[neil1113]

To Vincius, read my other post. Like I said, I wasn't planning on eliminating him. Just getting keeping an eye out for him. If he is scum, he'll be a big threat. If he's town, he'll be a good townie. Which is why I DON'T want to lynch him right now, and if he continues with no scumosity (made up that word, scum-like behavior lol), I'd have no desire to lynch him.

To Raz,

1. What is your mafia expeirence (IYHO)
I've played more games then I'd like to count. Though I've kept a record and it's found in my signature.

2. How do you feel about transition from RVS to seriousness(IE: How do you think it should be done)?
Truthfully, I'm not a big fan of RVS to start off the game in the first place. However in this case, I'd suggest transitioning rather quickly. It's way easy to figure out someone when they are being real, but when everyone is sarcastic or goofing off, scum like sentences could come out from townies who really didn't mean it the way it could be comprehended. Thus giving off wrong vibes.

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon?
Well, if they don't give a reason and if it's out of the blue, they're either new or scum usually. Even new people shouldn't get multiple chances though....

[Civil Scum]

Neil: You've mentioned your preference about lynching non-contributors over someone who is actively participating. But I know you are aware that a person who is very active and posting frequently can easily be a scum in sheeps clothing... Also, no one here is lurking to any unforgivable degree, which I might agree with you if it came down to deadline and there were clear lurkers and clear participants. But, you've mentioned this preference of yours several times by now, in one way or another, and it makes me wonder if it isn't some sort of defensive thing, or aimed at self-preservation. Becasue you HAVE been very vocal so far... Waat I mean is that it's a little unseemly, because I would imagine that if you were not as active, the times you did pop in to say someting, you wouldn't have said each time that you would rather lynch a quieter player... It sounds like something you're proposing in self-interest. And the scum have much more self-interest...

As for the length of that, that's alright. Games played on a forum, so we must expect some reading will be required. And I know when you're getting questioned and accused from 4 different people, it can be difficult to feel like you've responded properly, without responding to EVERYTHING.

RazGriz's reasoning sounds pretty solid all around, but I agree that the reasons he had for placing Silverbullet at the top of the scum list were not very scummy behaviors.

[neil1113]

Continuing above because I clicked the wrong button >_>

... which is why I don't normally just "cast a vote" but instead, watch (and interact at times) with the people in the games with me. Especially with the target only being 5 votes needed to lynch somebody, a lynch can happen abnormally fast and if you're asleep for 8 hours, who knows what could happen during that time? Or if you're at school... or if you just have a life you're attending to at the moment. Which is why in my opinion, it was stupid of me to put my vote on Silverbullet.

Editing before I post to Civil:

I understand what you're saying and to be truthful, at the beginning of games I usually am focused on self-preservation. Mostly because I don't know who anybody else is, and I'm not to shabby on trusting people right off the top. Especially if they can kill me. :/ I'm repeating myself a bit, specifically because nobody knows how I play so I'm trying to get it instilled in my posts the way I play. Sorry if that's gotten annoying to you.

[Razgriz]

Mod:V/LA till late Monday-Heading to a football game then spending the night

[Razgriz]

EBWOP: Late Sunday-my mistake

[nevermind]

turns out i'm busier than i thought, i'll try to analyze/reread some other time (sorry about delay)

[Spadille]

Good Afternoon. That’s in our time, of course. I’ll start this long post.

Neil1113

:

Meaning, with these boards your used to the play here. Therefore you know the game a little better, which doesn't mean I think your scum, but it means I shouldn't be completely oblivious to your posts either... just in case. I'm overzealous if anything. It's as if you're in a locked room with 7 people, lights go out, gun fires, person dies, lights come back on... do you look at the school teacher or the gun owner first? Now granted, this isn't the best picture painted but it's the idea that the gun person knows how to use a gun and probably has the ability to. Thus, you won't really accuse them because of their job or who they are, but you'd be wary of them because of their "experience."

Good reasoning, solid argument and clean thought. But I think you should look at the one who turned off the lights first.

I have no desire to argue with you

Any argument with a good subject is a healthy debate. This is important, especially in scum hunting.

You saw a team between us questioning each other?

Early in that part of the game, you and ups were the active players. Your point is not to pick those who are active, so I sensed something strange and a team-up which you might have planned (Mafia QuickTopic)

I'm confident that I'm a good contributer so too lose somebody like me in a game I was in, I'd be disappointed.

Yeah well, if you are scum then the town needs to get rid of you :/

I like myself

Lol, that made me laugh. In a positive way though.

Razgriz

:

1. What is your mafia expeirence (IYHO)

I have played in two times in our forum, though it’s less serious than this. I have played 3 times in real life. And I am playing my first game here right now.

2. How do you feel about transition from RVS to seriousness(IE: How do you think it should be done)?

It should be done step by step; Step 1 being the reaction, Step 2 being the commotion and Step 3 being the discussion.

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon?

I question their reason and logic about joining the bandwagon. Joining a bandwagon just to whack off is pretty damn suspicious.

Nevermind: What if no one reacts to anything?

Well then it could be hard to grab some scumtells and lynch before deadline

I am disappointed with this answer. Instead of telling what will YOU do, you said what is the situation when this comes in hand.

Spadille-Getting a town read off of him. He is decently active and actively scumhunting and has made some good answers to the Q's out there. Also made a few good points. Not dropping any scumtells as far as I can see and is contributing to the game. Overall town read

Thank you.

Civil Scum

:

But I know you are aware that a person who is very active and posting frequently can easily be a scum in sheeps clothing...

Exactly. It might be even an overzealous one or a town captain. It’s also the mafia’s goal to earn the town’s trust so that they can lead the herd of sheep into a cliff.

But, you've mentioned this preference of yours several times by now, in one way or another, and it makes me wonder if it isn't some sort of defensive thing, or aimed at self-preservation

In my theory, team preservation.

Silverbullet999

:
I am disappointed on the way you answered nevermind’s question. Please try again, this time, seriously.

Ups

:

Thanks for answering anyway.

Don’t mention it.

What is your reaction in my theory that You and Neil are the duo?

Chaim

:

it's not a good idea to make townies lynch the IC so soon, unless you're scum...

Oh brother, unless the ICs are scum. They are dangerous for their enemy faction, whether town or anti-town.

Yoenit, Chaim and Nevermind: More quality in your posts please, thanks.

[Spadille]

Made it readable as possible

[Spadille]

Question: What is time is it there? (GMT)
Mine is GMT 8+

[Yoenit]

Gonna read this through and post some thoughts this evening or tomorrow, busy now

[Civil Scum]

I'm really having trouble getting a read on Neil, and I don't want to get completely distracted and forget about everyone else.

Quickly though:

It's as if you're in a locked room with 7 people...

But Neil, don't you mean 9 people?

[Spadille]

Civil Scum, didn't you already read him as slight scum?

[Spadille]

OH I'm sorry, that was Razgriz. Carry on.

[silverbullet999]

[quote]Silverbullet999:
I am disappointed on the way you answered nevermind’s question. Please try again, this time, seriously.[quote]

.... Yes almighty lord and master

What do you think is the best way to start off an F11 (the setup we're playing)?
If RVS:

How would you decide when to end RVS? when it ends (normally ends naturally)
What if no one reacts to anything?What would you say is the maximum number of votes a person can have?same as before
How would one vote "randomly"? any of the below
random number generator, frivolous reasons, patterns, etc.

Are you pleased now?

-Civil

nice catch!

[nevermind]

lol it's actually with 8 other people.
and I will reread the thread, and I think I'll also answer my own questions

[nevermind]

What do you think is the best way to start off an F11 (the setup we're playing)? Using RQS. RQS avoids RVS and can get the game started faster if there's a serious argument. and if it fails, RVS can always be brought up and continued.
If RVS:

• How would you decide when to end RVS?
  • What if no one reacts to anything?
  What would you say is the maximum number of votes a person can have?
  How would one vote "randomly"?
  • random number generator, frivolous reasons, patterns, etc.

[Ups]

Reading through what I missed yesterday, will make a post in a bit.

[nevermind]

Analyzing neil1113 since he has a lot of content =P

Here are a list of some of his significant statements, scummy or not, that I got from his ISO.

Post 1:

• Shows a misunderstanding of RVS.
  He also metions "according to the info above, there are two mafia"
  • I can see him as mafia, being paranoid of getting outed for knowing that there are two mafia.
    But it's likely he's just playing this set up for the first time.
  Accuses Ups of lurking, and of posting no content.

Post 3:

• Uses a RNG to pick silverbullet to vote.
  Then lists some "reasons" to justify his random vote.
  • silverbullet was also lurking 10 hours into the game.
    Assumes that with his vote, it's possible that silverbullet would be "lost", but with the compensation that he isn't very good.
  "I have been the most helpful so far, don't vote me!"
  Speculates on the possibility that Raz's first vote might not actually be random, but rather a clever way to make a vote seem random.
  Continues demonstration of misunderstanding RVS.
  Makes a list of townies and scum, comments on how he's voting silverbullet, viewing him as town, but hoping he isn't.

Post 4:

• Responds to Ups's "you haven't voted, you're fakehunting, and you're playing passively"
  • I actually did vote, right above you, like 2 minutes ago. (This was from a simulpost)
    I'm not passive, I'm just not making any accusations and waiting for other people.
    I just like strategically questioning people, then tell the world they're scum. (don't remember seeing any of this)
  RVS confusion, Answers my questions
  • Best way to start of F11 is to pick a single target, and question them.
    Random lynching isn't good.
  The principle you guys use is random lynching.
  You should pick someone that hasn't contributed at all yet, who we have no read on and can't tell the true skill of.
  If you pick someone active they'll be able to respond and you won't be able to get a lynch.
  
  Directed at Ups:
  • I've been "targetting" people with words to get them to talk.
    Nothing to do with trying to lynch anyone

Post 5:

• Directed at Ups:
  • You say I'm passive, but you also say I'm trying to lynch someone without a good reason.
    Which one is it, since they're obviously complete opposites.
    You're contradicting yourself lol, get your story right

Post 6:

• Directed at Civil Scum:
  • You're pretty experienced in this forum.
    You know how to play mafia better, so I should watch out for you.
    When you're in a bad situation, you should keep an eye out for the people most able to help you since they're also most likely to hurt you.
    You should keep an eye out for experienced people.
    You're good but I'm still keeping an eye out for you.
  During RVS I didn't vote but I pointed my finger, wanting people to respond.
  
  I'm not trigger happy, I want to lynch someone so we can get this moving!! GRAHH!
  Yo I'm the best player here, I'm giving a subtle hint for the doctor to protect me.

Post 11:

• I've played A LOT of games.
  RVS isn't very awesome so we should transition to seriousness as quick as possible.
  RVS has too much joking for anything to be taken seriously.
  Bandwagoners, even if they are new people, shouldn't be given multiple chances.

Post 12:

• A lynch could happen in just 8 hours since this is such a small game.
  I'd rather just watch people do stuff to each other.
  I shouldn't have Random Voted silverbullet.
  At civil:
  • I'm usually self-preserving in the beginning, since I don't trust anyone.
    Nobody knows my meta so I'm exagerrating my style.

End.

Analysis:

• Most of his arguments are arguments over game theory.
  Particularly, his views on RVS differs from most of the other players. (but similar to my own)
  He's played a lot of games (who knows where) but not any in MS yet.
  He also considers himself one of the best players (he probably is) and quickly understood the purpose of RVS.
  
  I have a town read on him
  , and his experience should be helpful later.

Neil, where did you play your previous games?

[Ups]

so man, I posted in the second page, I have a FoS in Neil, cause, IMO, it's not a good idea to make townies lynch the IC so soon, unless you're scum...

just a question Ups, why are you asking as about our suspicious? are you worried?
(just asking)

I already saw the post you mentioned. The reason I called you out was because the quality and quantity of your posts (and the others mentioned), could be and can still be improved. Don't worry about not being able to convey your message, as your English has been very understandable so far.

@silverbullet:

You've mostly been reacting, as in answering the questions targeted at everyone, and not acting of your own volition. You say you've skimmed the thread, but you have absolutely no thoughts other than "Neil you're an interesting sort." As of now you've been flying under the radar, and I'd like to see some actual content, because we shouldn't be giving out free rides.

@Razgriz:

That's a good content post. Though I have to wonder why you haven't pressured silverbullet more, with a vote for example, even though you had a scum read on him.

As for your questions:

1. What is your mafia expeirence (IYHO) -

This is my first game. I've read through other finished games, so I have some idea of how a typical game runs, but reading about it doesn't compare to the actual experience.

2. How do you feel about transition from RVS to seriousness(IE: How do you think it should be done)? -

I think it should be done as soon as someone makes a scummy comment or response, whereupon that person is attacked. As you can probably tell, I don't very like the idea of RVS but recognize its necessity, which is why I tried to end it so early.

3. What do you do about people that bandwagon? -

Look at their motives for joining, and question them. If they're town expect them to work off of evidence, if they're scum expect them to try to mislead.

@Yoenit:

Looking forward to the bigger post you said is coming up tomorrow. Some of your answers in ISO #4 would seem somewhat scummy, but it could be attributed to being new. Hopefully your next post will offer more content.

@Spadille:

What is your reaction in my theory that You and Neil are the duo?

I'd say your reasoning (that because neil and I were active at the same time and arguing makes us scum) is wrong. I was on because I was looking forward to my first game of Mafia, and it's possible that neil was looking forward to his first game on MS. The was started when neil called me out for lurking and for lack of content, and then hypocritically running back into the shadows with

Now that I've had my say, continue on with your conversation.

So, to answer your question bluntly, I'd say you're grasping at straws and accusing without any real evidence.

I'm going to do the other three in a bit. I'm not used to making long analyses.