Mini #1007 (Game Over)

[redtail896]

I understand what KKN is saying, but it

is

a bit bizarre.

For reasons already explained, I'm not sure that I'm so in favor of CA. Personally, I'm torn between VRK and AGM.

I think it's more likely to be VRK. Reasons later, but read my posts from yesterday.

[Kid Know Nothing]

I'm trying to offer, what I think, is a logical and valid defense against VRK's attack against me.

Though I'm still waiting for his case, so I can properly defend myself.

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh.

The issue is that KKN's argument about G&H refusing to send kills actually

makes sense

, but it still seems so weird that he would think of that argument if it hadn't happened to him. This creates a paradox because if he knows it happened then he's cleared, but if it didn't happen, then he's not cleared. The possibilities I draw are these:

1) He's scum with G&H and G&H expressed an initial resistance to sending in the kill, but later relented. This gave KKN the idea for the tracker clearing ploy.
2) He's town and just happened to just think of the possibility out of the blue.

To me, possibility 1) seems more likely. The fact that G&H claimed despite saying he wouldn't claim earlier shows that he is willing to break his playstyle in certain circumstances. "Being scum" and having to send in a kill seems like something that might fit the bill.

HOWEVER.

I also feel like letting ConfidAnon off the hook is a huge mistake. This guy has been scummy the whole game, and his lynchage was Hoopla's dying wish (and she was right about a LOT of shit).

HRMMMMMMMM.

Redtail, I'm really interested in what you have to say about VRK, because right now he's coming in third on the scumzlist.

[Kid Know Nothing]

I could understand the idea of being willing to break that playstyle under certain circumstances. But if G&H wouldn't even vote, which is in the eyes of scum a way to control the towns vote and gives them a secondary kill if led correctly, I find it probably that G&H wouldn't send in a kill.

At the same time, maybe that would be something the scum would be banking on, thinking that if we had a tracker, they wouldn't track G&H based on the idea that G&H wouldn't even vote. Hm. It isn't something I really thought of out of the blue. Like I said earlier, I understand the idea of the playstyle, if I was going with a G&H kind of playstyle and I was playing with a No-Voting except under special circumstances, I probably wouldn't send in the night kill.

Still waiting for VRK. I agree with CA though. Hoopla made it pretty apparent that she wanted CA first, and he's guilty of a lot of the same things that Zach did and that I find scummy about VRK. He lurks, posts little content, etc. A full read will help later today, when I get home from college.

[redtail896]

Did a bunch of rereading. ISOed VRK, CA, Zach, and G&H (wow, that one took a while).

Iso'd everyone.

Zachrulez and Good and Honest don't look so hot.

Good and Honest needs to answer the question presented to him by Hoopla, and I don't understand why he wouldn't participate in the mass claim.

However, this is could easily be weirdness with playstyle, while Zachrulez is fairly scummy. Lots of fluffy one-liners, hopping between the AlmasterGM and drmyshottyizsik wagons, and eventually "mistakenly hammering" Elleran.

Vote: Zachrulez

This post happens at the beginning of D2. And by beginning, I mean the very first day of D2. And for the entirety of D2, CA never really wavers from this belief. Now I know what you're going to say; Zach was just as jumpy at G&H. However, I find the belief that 2 scum were bussing each other very unlikely.

If we are to believe that the scumteam is CA-Zach-G&H, then we are believing that for the entire game, the scumteam was consistently bussing each other very consistently. Zach, starting at the end of D2, was very strong against G&H. CA was strong against both Zach and G&H on D2, at the expense of really any other suspicions. G&H often pushed the connection between Zach and CA, insinuating that they seemed like a good scumpair (if you read G&H's ISO, you'll see what I mean).

In short, there's entirely too much bussing going on in that scumtrio for my liking. I admit that it's possible, but from D2 onward these 3 continually express the highest suspicion of each other.

In summary, that's why I'm hesitant to lynch CA. Please, break apart my logic.

[AlmasterGM]

Please, break apart my logic.

As I've said repeatedly, I'll lynch Zach or Good and Honest.

However, I find the belief that 2 scum were bussing each other very unlikely.

For reasons already explained, I'm not sure that I'm so in favor of CA. Personally, I'm torn between VRK and

AGM.

[redtail896]

I'm clearly leaning more VRK than you. I'm going by process of elimination:

I'm not scum.
I find it insanely unlikely (for various reasons that aren't worth explaining right now) that KKN is scum.
I've explained why I don't think CA is scum.

That leaves VRK and you. I would prefer to lynch VRK.

[AlmasterGM]

Your entire defense of CA is that he would've been double-bussing. But if I was scum, then I would have been doing the EXACT same thing.

Which means you are taking the EXACT same argument and saying CA isn't scum, but I

could

be.

If I could be scum, then so could CA. And I know I'm not scum, so.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, what do you think about KKN?

[redtail896]

You weren't bussed as hard by Zach and G&H though. And anyway, you're just leading me to the conclusion that VRK is the last scum.

More on KKN later today; I have class to go to.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I think KKN is going off the Tracker results where he didn't visit anyone.

If the only scum remaining are GH and KKN, and GH doesn't vote, then KKN couldn't be scum because he didn't visit, and there was a kill.

I want to read some things when I have more time, but if I had to vote right now it would be for VRK.

Ok that interpretation makes sense, but it also seems like someone is trying too hard to clear himself. Gut is telling me that CA would be rather foolish for pointing this out, seeing as helping KKN's case along does nothing but put eyes on him after I've been lynched. This is tangential evidence, but it's another point in CA-Town's favor. KKN is the last scum.

I'm fine with being the lynch for today, as long as KKN is gone tomorrow.

As for KKN's comment from a few days ago:

To be fair, the first post I made did say "Sticking with what I said yesterday" right after the vote.

The point is, if G&H wouldn't send in the vote and if in your eyes, I am scum, how would that kill have gone through? I still really don't understand your case against me. From what I read yesterday, you find me scummy for my unwillingness to throw my vote around and for interactions with Zach, correct?

I never said anything about throwing or not throwing votes around. Before today, you've voted TWICE, hopping on a late AGM wagon for the first one on Day 1. For your 2nd vote, you voted for G&H, a known scum. The

only other player who did that was Zach

, also a known scum. It's not about whether you're vote hopping or not, it's about why you voted when and for who(m?) you voted. Additionally, you're voting me for lurking and voting little content, etc. but I do believe you're guilty of the same things. Your contributions haven't been all that stellar either.

I'm ready to end the day whenever you folks are. I will not vote for myself, but if it really comes down to me vs. KKN, I'd rather go first so that I'm not around tomorrow to muck up the waters.



I agree with AGM's 782. Redtail your logic doesn't hold, and I think that points towards CA being town as well.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

VOTE: KKN

[AlmasterGM]

You weren't bussed as hard by Zach and G&H though. And anyway, you're just leading me to the conclusion that VRK is the last scum.

More on KKN later today; I have class to go to.

What on earth are you talking about? Zach never even VOTED for ConfidAnon, he voted for ME. Multiple times. And G&H never voted, so how could he have "bussed?"

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Redtail, AGM and CA are clear IMO. It's either KKN or me.

[redtail896]

You weren't bussed as hard by Zach and G&H though. And anyway, you're just leading me to the conclusion that VRK is the last scum.

More on KKN later today; I have class to go to.

What on earth are you talking about? Zach never even VOTED for ConfidAnon, he voted for ME. Multiple times. And G&H never voted, so how could he have "bussed?"

You're right about Zach, but G&H I surmise from reading his posts. It's very clear that G&H was insinuating a connection between Zach and CA.

I admit though that I hadn't looked at you so much during that reread. I focused on the four mentioned above. Rereading yours, the logic I applied to CA could also apply to you. I still think it would be a very extreme case of triple bussing though. In the end, I just think that CA being scum would lead to incredibly unusual interactions between the three scumbuddies. I admit that it might've happened, but I find it unlikely.

Regarding KKN: he presented a long and thorough case on Zach D2, yet didn't vote for him. I find this rather scummy, except that by doing so he kept his vote on G&H. That's an interesting move at best for scum. At that point during the day, no clear alternative to a Zach lynch was being presented, so I would expect scum to jump on the Zach wagon. Especially if their primary other suspicion was also scum. Again, this seems like an action that just doesn't make sense from a scum perspective.

[AlmasterGM]

Redtail, AGM and CA are clear IMO. It's either KKN or me.

AHHHHHHHH STOP, every time I start to think you're town you use this argument and then I don't think you're town anymore .

VRK VS CA VS KKN. Two lynches left.

It's soooooo hard.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

What the hell are you talking about? If I'm Town, I don't care if I get lynched today and the (to me) other obvious candidate gets lynched tomorrow - Town win.

If I'm scum, I'm basically giving up - Town win.

You do the math (if you're Town).

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

How are you even contemplating CA given what you said to Redtail above? Come on AGM, don't lose it now.

[Kid Know Nothing]

VRK, why do you think CA is town?

CA, where are you?

I'm addressing your case right now, so give me a little bit.

[redtail896]

AGM: separating yourself from the argument for a sec: what do you think about my reason for not wanting to lynch CA?

[Espeonage]

Votecount

1 -

Kid Know Nothing

- Vel-Rahn Koon (L-2)

Not Voting: redtail896, ConfidAnon, Kid Know Nothing, AlmasterGM

ConfidAnon has just recieved his last prod.

[AlmasterGM]

I think it's decent enough that I am strongly leaning towards lynching KKN today.

However, they said to wait for a bit, and I'm willing to do that.

[redtail896]

Alright, this is stalling up the wazoo. That ends now. We need to decide who the two most suspicious people are. My thoughts:

CA: My problems with CA are stated above. If CA is scum, then there's entirely too much bussing going around for my liking. It's possible, but I find it unlikely. In addition, the case against CA basically boils down to lurking, and I think there are bigger fish to fry.

AGM: As has been rightly pointed out, my reason for not suspecting CA applies equally well to AGM. Okay. I can run with this. If we're willing to accept my CA reasoning above, then I can accept AGM as clear.

That leaves VRK and KKN. On the one hand, Hoopla, our tracker, got nothing on KKN. On the other hand, Hoopla believed VRK innocent on the basis of his seeming giving up. Hoopla wanted to lynch CA.

I did a reread of KKN earlier today. KKN tends to defend G&H during the theory discussions, yet votes for G&H on D2. He posts a long and good case against Zach, yet never votes for him. He only drops 2 votes in the first 3 days. In short, after listening to others and doing a more thorough reread, the only point I have in KKN's favor is the blank tracker result. And that could be G&H sending in the kill. Heck, it could be a godfather (although I bet it's unlikely).

[AlmasterGM]

Three days is long a wait enough.

Vote: KKN

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

VRK, why do you think CA is town?

CA, where are you?

I'm addressing your case right now, so give me a little bit.

See my previous post.