Mini 1041: Wheel of Fortune Mafia (Game over!)

[Oman]

Not random voting.

Vote The good Prof. Guppy

How's that working out for you

[Oman]

Not random voting.

Vote The good Prof. Guppy

How's that working out for you

Quite well, actually. My scumdar just got a blip when I pointed it in your direction.

My "fuck you"-dar just got a.....shut up!

No votes huh?

And, slap my ass and call me charlie..oman, here???????? Been ages.

vote Oman

, you the man.

<3 been a while mate, saw you and had to join.

I'm pretty happy with yabba's point that one of the two mysteries are scum. I'm also assigning brianj as the partner. He is arguing against the plan for no reason. His disagreement seems to be around the fact that he doesn't get how yabbaguy got to the conclusion, which I found incredibly simple. brianj then steps forward with my biggest hate in a mafia game "WIFOM!" as a reason to cease all conversation when A) WIFOM doesn't exist and B) they're wrong. That's more bad play than scummy though. Really my biggest gripes with brianj are along his immediate emotional reaction to things. It's so far out of place, that it looks scummy.

Look, I'm not really happy with the huge amount of rolefishing, and I think that for a softclaim that was mighty fierce. These things tend to happen though.

Anyway, just in case anyone cares, brianj is pinging as scum, hardcore. Just thought I'd let you all know.

FG: Confirm that it's mod-confirmed that you're both town
charlie: Confirm that FG is mod-confirmed town for you.
VOTE: Unvote; Vote: brianj

[Oman]

That vote tag is...not good for unvoting.

[Oman]

I don't know much, but I know I love you.

[Oman]

I got the impression you were reacting emotionally because you sure weren't reacting rationally. Mostly tone and word choice.

It's mod-confirmed that Charlie and I are both town.

May I leave it that?

Not really, that's quite big thing to just trust you with. I don't need to know powers or anything (unless the power is that you both confirm), but I'm just not buying such an easy to produce mason pair like that.

I could consider a serial killer/psychiatrist relationship, where the SK has said "fuck this noise" and gone for the town option, but I can't really buy something so easily mod confirming popping up in balance like this (yes that is modWIFOM, but there has to be a point where you drop it out and say "facts is facts").



My awesome breadcrumb/softclaim

[Oman]

Attempt 2?

[Oman]

Nein, brianj

[Oman]

I don't know much, but I know I love you.

Oman... uh... breadcrumb or random noise?

Does it matter either way? If it is a breadcrumb, would I go about explaining it?

@Oman, I think I get your claimed breadcrumb

Props if you do, I thought the board was ambiguous enough, but if you've got it, then you're sharp.

I have a guess as to what's going on, but I need charlie's answer first

Interested as to what this is, because I have no idea where they are at the moment.




FakeGod, it's like this: Does the RolePM say (paraphrase) "You need to find your partner mystery wedge, who is packing townie brownies like nobody's business. Like if you saw this guy in the street you'd say 'hey, you're totally not Fat Tony, wanna hold my gun during a sleepover'", or did it say

"This guy is legit!

He has a trusting face

"?

[Oman]

Unvote

Appologies, Coug.

[Oman]

Congrats on the bub, CKD! You'll have to give me a social brief on the little tike when you can.

[Oman]

I'm still so confused as to whether the role pm says he's town or they've figured it out via flavr.

Also, much lulz at the reckamonic avatar.

[Oman]

Okay, brian? Let him answer my question, then I can answer yours, because I'm fairly certain what's going on and it's an easy deduction to make if you look at their posts.

Pretty sure this is a dangerous assumption that I'm not happy people making in the dark.

[Oman]

I'm not sure where this Pieman wagon is coming from, but I haven't had a chance to go back and review him or the cases on him.

VOTE: brianj Nothing you have done is interesting me to the point that it takes away that early suspicion. I took the vote off due to the focus being elsewhere, but your analysis is poor, and undisciplined. It feels like you're trying to throw smoke out to cover something.

[Oman]

I really don't get this CKD vote. Will answer brianj today.

[Oman]

my name is Tasky! not to difficult to spell, spell it right.

Jerk

[Oman]

Realise I'm sliding behind right now, I'll catch up tomorrow. New workplace, new state, kicking my arse.

[Oman]

• brianj: The worst thing I could say about braianj is that ...
  
  
  
• Charlie: This dude has attained semi-confirmed status quite easily because of the softclaim. The way I see it there are only three outcomes, one is that they're not fully confirmed, two is that they're scum pulling a gambit, which doesn't seem likely at all, and three is that we now have two confirmed town. I'll you what, it's a great outcome for us, because if one comes up scum, the other is likely town, and while they're both alive, they're both likely town. So for now I'm happy to give Charlie my tick, but we'll see. Really comes out of his shell at post #87 where he suddenly has a lot more confidence and posts big explainations. Why the change here? It almost feels like the gambit is working, so he pipes up a little. It just doesn't fit. Post #91 is really interesting because it's the inside man's view. Let's assume Charlie is town for now: he posts about reactions to himself, giving a different perspective. It's also really dangerous because he's emotionally involved. That line

  If I could day-kill anyone, it would be him at this point.

  What an odd comment.
  
  My biggest problems are that he said "Mason-like". There was no mention of confirming two players, which would have been the first thing out of my mouth as a town player making the call to softclaim. I also hate the "useless" thing.
  
  
• curiouskarmadog: CKD has this skeptical outlook, that lead to a lot of questions about the roles. Then he really fires up. I don't know about alignment on that. Note #156 as a CKD defense of Xite. Nothing serious. Oh man, after what happens page 8+ you guys have bigger issues.
  
  
  
• FakeGod: vote going to the highest bandwagon in the RVS is cool. Nulltell. #30's comment of "my role is as useless as [charlie's]" sucks for a softclaim too.

  lol reck, you're just jealous cuz I got a buddy

  I know this is throwaway line, but that's where the good stuff happens, when it wasn't planned out. You use A) the term "buddy" which in mafia nomenclature never has a good meaning (buddy-up, scumbuddy, buddy comedies staring owen wilson). And to say it to Reckamonic, who is a Hydra anyway. Just seems...odd. I know, friendly social rah rah rah, but sometimes it's just too odd.

  We had a good reason. Trust me.
  
  And what did I say about rolefishing discussing about me and Charlie? hmmm?

  I hate this "you're not allowed to discuss us! even though we're the only critical thing in the game so far!" I also had a huge amount of problems with post #68 where he comes forward and says "we are both mod-confirmed town" but it takes charlie so much longer to get that out. I'm still not sure it is mod confirmed. Especially when his next comment is "I was able to figure it out from my Role-PM" (#75)
  
  
• Oman Obvtown
  
  
• PieMan: This guy does one of the biggest scumtells I've seen, dodges RVS without reason. He votes for backup mod, and then at #20 jumps on this "RVS sucks" bandwagon that is completely arbitrary.

  Yabba, why push it further and try to discern anymore of their roles, when more info about everyone's roles, at this point is detrimental.

  old school psychology. Doesn't hold water. Check again.
  
  
• Prof. Guppy: I think it's a valid point that Guppy's comment in #19 was terrible. From a theory point, it just doesn't settle well. Whether or not that is a scumtell is really hard with someone this experienced.
  
  
• Reckamonic† replaces dramonic - the initial four lines of #32 were really interesting, very clean and precise. Reckamonic has this real problem with posting short snippets with no extension #81 is a good example of this.
  
  
• Tasky replaces Me=Weird. Tasky strikes me as a bit of a jerk. He's really arrogant in his first post #135. Theory box is jerky, posts are jerky, dogma comments are jerky. Tasky just reminds me of every spammer that we find out later is playing 2 accounts in a game or just wastes time. I don't really feel like I have a lot of time for the guy, that said, he does seem pretty sharp. I mean, he's thinking, which is good news. And there seems to be enough respect that this game will play out well. Even through out differences, we could play a strong game, Tasky. Now are you with me or against me?
  
  
• Tazaro replaces jmj3000: Thought JMJ was playing a mad grey man, but he ended up going. His comments with Charlie we so non-committal (#47) that I'm curious at this point.

  [Tasky's] theory box is too wonderful to be scum-created.

  This is stupid. Theory is separate from alignment because theory is the overview of the game itself, not of the specifics of one game. It's also not that great theory, it's full of holes and easily breakable.
  
  
• Xite91 Lots of noise. The amount of posting doesn't correspond with the amount of information. Asking me if I was breadcrumbing is a stupid question, and definitely not a town one.
  yabbaguy: Pulling off that mystery wedge guess was excellent. But I honestly don't know what to think about it in the context of scum town, it's just too cleanly guessed that if either of them (or both) turn up scum, yabba guy is in on it (i.e. scum, or rolecop). If not, he deserves a prize for that guess. #97, huge issue. Xite has this habit of saying "I GET WHAT YOUR BREADCRUMB/VAGUE POST WAS SAYING!" I don't think it's helpful, it's definitely not a good idea. It adds nothing and it feels like buddying. Made rolefishing #112. #161 is a horrible post. "AtE Noted" when did respect get kicked out of this game? I posted that I didn't get the CKD vote, and I still mean it. #178: Worst version of one of the worst ways to read someone ever. Full of emotion, was never going to show anything.
  
  CKD says it best

  you mean this "case"? there isnt a case here?

Questions: Charlie: Did you two know who each other were, or have a way of identifying each other, either a callsign or something that needed to be posted in the thread?

I want to hear more from Reckamonic, want to hear more from Guppy.

Thinking right now we have two options:
Tazaro+Tasky+1 (Guppy/Reck as the grey man, maybe) scumteam; or
Xite+Charlie+1 (either greyman or maybe even CKD, if he's got the balls for a confrontation this early)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xite

[Oman]

Oman, your post is so full of crap it hurts.

You strike me as a 16 year old who plays the game well, but needs a friend.

[*]brianj: The worst thing I could say about braianj is that ...

... is that? what? finish your sentences please

Whoops, I kind of went top down and forgot about him. I did it over two or three steps.

Brainj gives me a bad feeling. It is all gut, that's all it was. I've learned to trust my gut, so I'm watching him.

[*]Charlie: This dude has attained semi-confirmed status quite easily because of the softclaim. The way I see it there are only three outcomes, one is that they're not fully confirmed, two is that

they're scum pulling a gambit, which doesn't seem likely at all

, and three is that we now have two confirmed town. I'll you what, it's a great outcome for us,

because if one comes up scum, the other is likely town

, and while they're both alive, they're both likely town. So for now I'm happy to give Charlie my tick, but we'll see. Really comes out of his shell at post #87 where he suddenly has a lot more confidence and posts big explainations. Why the change here?

It almost feels like the gambit is working, so he pipes up a little.

It just doesn't fit. Post #91 is really interesting because it's the inside man's view. Let's assume Charlie is town for now: he posts about reactions to himself, giving a different perspective. It's also really dangerous because he's emotionally involved. That line

If I could day-kill anyone, it would be him at this point.

What an odd comment.

My biggest problems are that he said "Mason-like". There was no mention of confirming two players, which would have been the first thing out of my mouth as a town player making the call to softclaim

.

I also hate the "useless" thing.

those two sententes are a little contradicting each other, aren't they?

this is total crap. they both confirmed each other. a townie would no reason to lie. therefore they are either both town or both anti-town (or we have a bastard mod, but if I remember right we excluded this).

what is so odd about it? is odd=scummy? if yes, how? if no, why bother with it?

what didn't you like?

Charlie probably hoped to find his partner without outing themselves, or at least wanted to keep the option open to not reveal himself

No, it can still feel like a gambit without being one. And I said I don't think it's likely, which means it still could be. It's a feeling and a chance, but notice I didn't put him in either of my scumteams, the probability is still against it.

They didn't confirm each-other as town in their first posts. It wasn't until Fakegod posted later that they confirmed each other, and even that was a hassle. Therefor nothing, Fakegod confirmed it off the bat, Charlie didn't until well after fakegod did.

Odd does not equal scummy, but it's all about context. Odd can later be scummy, if the right context is given to it. You have to remember this day one information is all in such a small context (i.e. that the editorial "you" is town) that we can't get all the information out of it that we need. So I say it's odd for that kind of thing to be said, but maybe later it can give us some good info.

Confirming each other is not useless. Charlie's initial claim doesn't fit with what came out later in the discussion of their pair. What annoys me is that he says "yeah I'm useless" fakegod says "so am I" but now we take it as read that there are two confirmed town in this bunch (in my opinion, fakegod is the...less confirmed). That is unuseless, inuseless, deuseless. It is useful, it is full of uses.

Well, I doubt that was his intention, and if it was it was subtlety fail.

[*]curiouskarmadog: CKD has this skeptical outlook, that lead to a lot of questions about the roles. Then he really fires up. I don't know about alignment on that.

Note #156 as a CKD defense of Xite.

Nothing serious. Oh man, after what happens page 8+ you guys have bigger issues.

what is so noteworthy about it? is it scummy? is it a town-tell? something else?

See the next sentence,

nothing serious

noting if for context, or to look back on later. It kind of fed my CKD+Xite thoughts. At the moment, it's a nulltell, but if and when something happens to change my opinion.

[*]FakeGod: vote going to the highest bandwagon in the RVS is cool. Nulltell. #30's comment of "my role is as useless as [charlie's]" sucks for a softclaim too.

lol reck, you're just jealous cuz I got a buddy

I know this is throwaway line, but that's where the good stuff happens, when it wasn't planned out.

You use A) the term "buddy" which in mafia nomenclature never has a good meaning (buddy-up, scumbuddy, buddy comedies staring owen wilson). And to say it to Reckamonic, who is a Hydra anyway. Just seems...odd. I know, friendly social rah rah rah, but sometimes it's just too odd.

We had a good reason. Trust me.

And what did I say about rolefishing discussing about me and Charlie? hmmm?

I hate this

"you're not allowed to discuss us! even though we're the only critical thing in the game so far!"

I also had a huge amount of problems with post #68 where he comes forward and says "we are both mod-confirmed town" but it takes charlie so much longer to get that out. I'm still not sure it is mod confirmed. Especially when his next comment is "I was able to figure it out from my Role-PM" (#75)

you keep pointing out odd things, find scummy stuff. or if you want, pro-town-tells (but I wouldn't always share those). what you are saying there is bullshit: it's so not game relevant. why is scum more likely to use the word buddy than town?

Hey, if he says so, he is either lying (and is scum), or there is absolutely no reason not to believe him. if he is town, he doesn't want to confuse us (at least this is what I hope and expect). the fact that your are still doubting this is starting to get scummy. it could be that you fear to confirmed town are too much for you to handle, so you try to discredit them. it you think they are scum, say so. bring arguments. but, in that case they are BOTH scum

Is it scummy? if yes, why?

Put this in your theorybox, dude, until I know the alignment of a single mafioso (and I will, even if just one), I can't find half as much scummy stuff as I will afterwards. Basically, the most scummy stuff is about interactions with and reactions to confirmed town and confirmed scum. Scum is not more likely to use the word buddy than town, but we use the word buddy to relate to to scummy things. To refer to something as "buddy" is what threw me. But it's about deeply ingrained thoughts there, and I'm not happy to vote on that early.

Two confirmed town are fine, it fits easily into mini-balance. My issue with it is how it came about, I'll say it again for you, charlie's initial claim is so vastly different from what was revealed at the end. It doesn't fit! But I don't think they're both scum, and I think you're cutting out possibilities of them being one-and-one for no reason.

Scummy because it's taking what is now a very public interaction at the role level and saying "you can't talk about it" and calling people scummy for doing so. It was what brought us out of RVS, it's been the major talking point. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we found out they make a serial-killer when together, but alone are just survivours or something similar.

[*]PieMan: This guy does one of the biggest scumtells I've seen, dodges RVS without reason. He votes for backup mod, and then at #20 jumps on this "RVS sucks" bandwagon that is completely arbitrary.

Yabba, why push it further and try to discern anymore of their roles, when more info about everyone's roles, at this point is detrimental.

old school psychology. Doesn't hold water. Check again.

is old psychology = scummy?

No, it's just incorrect. People can be wrong about theory without being scum.

[*]Tasky replaces Me=Weird.

Tasky strikes me as a bit of a jerk. He's really arrogant in his first post #135. Theory box is jerky, posts are jerky, dogma comments are jerky.

Tasky just reminds me of every spammer that we find out later is playing 2 accounts in a game or just wastes time. I don't really feel like I have a lot of time for the guy, that said,

he does seem pretty sharp. I mean, he's thinking, which is good news.

And there seems to be enough respect that this game will play out well.

Even through out differences, we could play a strong game, Tasky.

Now are you with me or against me?

are you trying to buddy up to me?

I always respect the players I play with. should I get "jerky", it is as a mean in the game. I don't intend it against you or in general.

lol. I'm with you if you help me catch scum.

No, I just feel that you're like a version of Vollkan that was bullied as a child. You're an interrogator, you're sharp, and you think, but you're a dick about it. I'm a social player, and I'm going to make friends all the time, it's not buddying by a long shot.

You're not a bad guy, you're just very arrogant in a game where people are deprived of information (and therefor submissive by default). It's going to make for a fun game.

[*]Xite91 Lots of noise. The amount of posting doesn't correspond with the amount of information. Asking me if I was breadcrumbing is a stupid question, and definitely not a town one.

so, do you think Xite is scum or not?

The vote for him suggests so (but not always ) Yes at the moment I really do.

yabbaguy: Pulling off that mystery wedge guess was excellent.

But I honestly don't know what to think about it in the context of scum town, it's just too cleanly guessed that if either of them (or both) turn up scum, yabba guy is in on it (i.e. scum, or rolecop). If not, he deserves a prize for that guess.

#97, huge issue.

Xite has this habit of saying "I GET WHAT YOUR BREADCRUMB/VAGUE POST WAS SAYING!" I don't think it's helpful, it's definitely not a good idea. It adds nothing and it feels like buddying.

Made rolefishing #112.

#161 is a horrible post.

"AtE Noted" when did respect get kicked out of this game?

I posted that I didn't get the CKD vote, and I still mean it.

#178: Worst version of one of the worst ways to read someone ever.

Full of emotion, was never going to show anything.

he can't be right! there is no way there can be one and only one one scum in {Charlie FakeGod}. again, falling back on your craplogic

?? explain this again please, don't get it

do you think this kind of post is posted more likely by town or by scum

what about that post makes you think Xite is scum?

huh? what has respect have to do with that post?

what's "way to read someone" are you referring to? what's the "worst version". explanation please

I disagree with you on this point, and it seems like we won't resolve ourselves. By the way not agreeing with you doesn't mean it's craplogic.

Eh, looks like half of my xite stuff fell under yabbaguy. Sorry for the formatting, got drunk and sleepy prior to posting it.

Post 97 is Xite's first "I KNOW THE SETUP/ROLES! AREN'T I SMART?" It's pointless and it's scummy as hell. It makes it look like we need to listen to him, and post 97 is very terrible because it's an assumption.

Post 112 is more likely to be made by scum.

The post is very defensive, and very cold. Xite and CKD were very emotive towards each other, then all of a sudden Xite just goes cold and says "Appeal to Emotion is noted" which is in itself a bad idea. Appeal to emotion is one of my least favourite fallacies because people use it horribly. An appeal to emotion isn't just an emotive post, it's when the emotion within that post is calculated to present the best possible outcome for that player.

Isolation reads are the worst way to try to determine someone's alignment, because it lacks context even more so than any other kind of read. All you get are their posts, and some memory. If you use facebook, it's like reading back through one person's individual stream of status updates. It floods you, and it clouds the vision. And Xite's is terrible because it doesn't read or analyse anything. It's just bitter.

Xite+Charlie+1 (either greyman or maybe even CKD, if he's got the balls for a confrontation this early)

this is total bullshit again. now tell me: WHY WOULD FAKEGOD CONFIRM CHARLIE IF CHARLIE WAS SCUM BUT FAKEGOD WAS TOWN?

That should be fakegod. My appologies. And don't bother telling me that's wrong, because we've already been over this and we disagree.

but I've still got my eye on you!

FoS: Oman

Understood.

[Oman]

I only do ISO's after I'm convinced someone's scum.

Then they're even more pointless. Confirmation bias.

Your overwhelming amount of sarcasm makes it seem like you're just bitter or angry. It looks irrational and leads me to disregard large amounts of your posts due to the overall feeling that they are spiteful.

Also, quit asking me if I read things. I reread the thread twice (in it's entirety, not isolating any posts). I can read, you can read, let's all assume that people who are posting, are reading.

[Oman]

@Oman
If your opinion on me is based on little but gut feeling, I want to know what you specifically meant by "It feels like you're trying to throw smoke out to cover something" on the post you voted for me. Reading through the thread I can't really see anything that justifies this statement at all, especially after hearing your reasoning. It just looks like filler statement thrown to make your vote look better.

I do not remember and cannot find this post where i voted you. Can you point it out for me?

[Oman]

lol. do you know a better way to address specific points in a quote?

If your points are solid, you don't need big font sizes to get the point across.

Notice how that last sentence is supposed to resonate in your mind, and all without fancy fonts.

This is only true if people are reading

I read that, and I already told you it was horribly offensive to assume that because people don't agree with you, that they're just not reading.

[Oman]

Clearly you wrote the quoted person wrong, the comment was from me not CKD which I suspect is source of your problem. Just in case:

I'm not sure where this Pieman wagon is coming from, but I haven't had a chance to go back and review him or the cases on him.

VOTE: brianj Nothing you have done is interesting me to the point that it takes away that early suspicion. I took the vote off due to the focus being elsewhere, but

your analysis is poor, and undisciplined. It feels like you're trying to throw smoke out to cover something.

Post #160.

Sorry dude, that was the source. As I said "it feels" I take a lot of my early wagons from a gut feeling rather than specifics because I honestly feel that early reasoning is even worse than early gut.

A lot of your posts were "don't know what to think about..." or about "arbitrary alignments". Those early posts were about how you didn't know or weren't sure. It kind of threw out that you didn't want to put your own opinions out.

[Oman]

Thanks to his gambit, now I know that 1) Charlie has been shot by the mafia, 2) Charlie has shot ckd last night, and 3) I am the one-shot sane doctor.

And lastly, I didn't choose to save anyone yesterday, and still have my one-shot protection left in my arsenal.

The last note should not be touched by anyone, due to it's massive WIFOM-ness that is better on our side as it is. The first three points I find to be extrapolations. How do you know that Charlie used his kill and we don't have an SK out there, that targeted Charlie, and Mafia targeted CKD? I'm not saying that it's not a good guess on your part with good info, what I am noting is that you shouldn't be saying "Know".

I'd buy brianj mason as well. Rereading with the new info.

[Oman]

Tasky still annoys the shit out of me. Pieman idea is growing on me, I think it may be the way he doesn't acknowledge the wagon on him.

[Oman]

Keep in mind that xite's last foses were

CKD

, yabbaguy, and guppy.

This is quite literally the perfect example of WIFOM. Don't forget that FoSes are the lower end of the spectrum anyway.

[Oman]

EBWOP: I also meant to say that resolving back like that works better with NKs than with lynches.

[Oman]

Vote Pieman

What I really want to see here is two competing wagons, one at L-1, one at L-2 and see who is willing to do the pieman lynch that has been talking about the last few days. This also give the Guppy people a chance to explain why he is scummy. So far the biggest thing I've seen is "A town dude FoSed him before he was lynched".

[Oman]

Man, the vibes I'm getting from Professor Guppy; he inexplicably pings my scumdar...
[b}Unvote[/b]

Vote: Professor Guppy

This is probably the biggest reason I hate the guppy wagon. This looks really scum driven. No reasons just a "oh yeah, gut". We're at 9A, which means a gut lynch will put us at 7A, assumedly lynch or lose. If there is an SK (i.e. the kill was not charlie's), this could very well be LYLO. I demand reasons for this vote.

[Pieman] IS scum

This is the issue with the other wagon. I haven't yet found a pieman argument that convinces me. (Yes that does mean I'm voting him for competing wagon's sake, which is pretty much my MO anyway. /inb4omgwagonscum).

There is an argument that pieman is coasting through the game, and I agree, but Guppy is doing the same.


The speed of the wagons has long been a favourite tell of mine, and pieman's hit a certain place D1 and stopped, guppy hit L-1 really quickly. They're both bad signs because the votes that have gone on both wagons have had really poor reasoning within.

Anyway, I'd be interested to see how wagon/counter-wagon progresses.

[Oman]

Oman:
1. do you still believe FakeGod could be scum? if no, what made you change your mind?
2. do you think I am scum?
3. what do you think about FakeGod's argument for voting yabbaguy/Guppy?

1. The fact that the role PMs came out after charlie died means that FakeGod

could

be lieing about the "exact same role PM" line. The flavour fits mystery wedge very well, and the behaviour that led up to all of this.
2. I haven't ruled you out, and we're getting closer and closer to "process of elimination" lynches.
3. I think it's fucking bullshit, and I said so at the time. FoSes are the lower end of the suspicion scale, half the time I don't use them, and half the time when others do I disregard them. They're just a way of recording suspicion. Add on to that "Townies can be wrong" (which I feel like I need to make a wiki page for, tvtropes style) and it's a null argument. FakeGod has never sat well with me, but I'd be a brave man to turn against a claim such as his (especially as the confirmation thing came out eventually).

Additional question for you Tasky:

1. Do you think brianj is scum?
2. Do you think brianj is confirmed town?

[Oman]

Vote Pieman

What I really want to see here is two competing wagons, one at L-1, one at L-2 and see who is willing to do the pieman lynch that has been talking about the last few days. This also give the Guppy people a chance to explain why he is scummy. So far the biggest thing I've seen is "A town dude FoSed him before he was lynched".

We're doing this Pieman vote with interesting timing, aren't we?; Are we saying "competing wagons" to veil an scummy intention of getting on another wagon in case it can possibly receive a hammer?

FoS: Oman

No, we're saying "competing wagons" because both are pretty poor, and we need some info from it. Even though I've mention the bad feeling I've had from both wagons.

Your defence of Pieman is noted though. Why are you voting Guppy? The entirety of your case is "inexplicably pinging [your] scumdar." That is just gut. Your earlier attack of pieman: "he could be [scum]".



Tasky: The mason question was more about the fact that CKD never confirmed him town, they are not necessarily confirmed, we have only brianj's word on it. I just thought it was an interesting concept.

[Oman]

@Tasky: From my experience from RL mafia, person who's getting bandwagoned + lynched tends to have higher-than-normal accuracy in nailing scum.

Lol?

And I don't see why a town player wouldn't believe my claim.

LAWL!

[Oman]

Why is he okay with being on one of those wagons if he thinks it could be lylo!?

Assuming you want this answered: Wagons build information. I would never say I have no intention for a lynch right now because that devalues pressure (like I just did!).

[Oman]

1. Yes, I am un-counterclaimed mason, and I took care to associate myself slightly with CKD last day too.

Rather pointless question to ask me in my opinion, if it were me questioning the player likely to be town I'll be asking for his reads or opinion on certain situations.

also declaring I'll probably be absent until Thursday since I have lab reports to prepare and hand in next few days. On that note

Unvote

for now since I don't want the day to end while I'm gone either.

What are your opinions/reads on our situation?

@Oman: FakeGod's NOT confirmed? Town-Charlie said for fact that he was. Why are you still trying to refute this?

He just feels really off, and the confirmation process was almost entirely his side, Charlie didn't confirm him until very late in the game, and even then it felt reluctant.

Okay looking for...oh...ah...after looking for the quotes to support the above I found this

This completes the cycle: If I die and flip town he is confirmed town. If he dies and flips town I am confirmed town. If anything else occurs, I shall neuter a cougar.

/bow out.

[Oman]

Thought so.

[Oman]

Thought so.

explain better plz. what did you think?
what implications do you think it has?

The whole competing wagons thing was to see where Pieman and Guppy would go with their votes. Guppy's has maintained, which...well it was there for a while (pre my vote). So I guess it doesn't really fit into this. I can't retroactively call him on that. What does fit however is that Pieman has never previously referenced Guppy. Well once and it was "I don't remember any post about guppy". And now he's voting him *only* because he is the other wagon. Look at the reasoning he puts with his vote "not voting in a pro-town way". It's self-perpetuating. But now that he is the other dude, he just throws the vote down.

My vote on Pieman stays, and I'm happy with it there.

[Oman]

If by "making sense" you mean "not lynching you", I can see how you made that decision.

[Oman]

Guppy is scum? Either that or I never play in a game with him again.

[Oman]

Hard to defend without cases, guys. Instead I'm going to

Vote Pieman

as a reluctant bus on his partner, Guppy.

[Oman]

vote: Oman.

well, that's a town win.

L

[Oman]

Ya rly.

Well done town, you actually did pretty well. I mean considering the only power roles were two one-shots (who could have killed their protectee) and two masons, it was kind of a 2v10 mountainous with a lot of swing.

Unfortunately that swing came against us, which is bullshit. I don't blame the mod, really (

Coug: I love you!

) but having 4 confirmed town vs 2 scum was never going to be easy. That is why I took the shot lost night, and failed, because we needed to even up the odds.

I thought you all played well, personally, I'd have preferred an investigation role and a godfather/framer to assist the scum, but whatever.

[Oman]

No, I knew them once you'd claimed.

[Oman]

well, the one group of prs were swingy (1-shot vig) the problem was the confirm.

So no information roles at all? I do love it when Coug messes with meta.

[Oman]

I honestly agree, no sour grapes for sure, but having three confirmed townies at once really limited our options.

I hammered myself before the claim simply because I wanted to leave the fakeclaim for yabbaguy. I was stunned when he didn't chose to use it.
t

[Oman]

Fair enough.