Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[Haschel Cedricson]

Vote: XScorpion

. He knows why.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Have you played with me before? I totally forget if you have or not (my apologies if we have).

Don't change the subject.

[Haschel Cedricson]

is this the "vote xscorpion till the game blows" game?

sorry, I'm not playing. I'll give you a hint. What you want, is to make xscorpion the

second

bandwagon target. By then, he has usually done something that could be explaned as scummy. Bandwagoning him then will make the case grow, discusion starts, everybody happy.

But starting with xscorpion is opportunistic. Scum knows he has trouble at the start of the game, so they will vote him right away. This is easy, and scum hopes this sets them up for an easy day.

VOTE: haschel

Hey mykonian, I have a question I've always wanted to know. What's it like?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Serious question for mykonian. Why is a wagon on XScorpion scummy, whereas a wagon on any of the other players is not?

[Haschel Cedricson]

omgus vote Stef

You are assuming a totally unbalanced setup and a possibly pointless mechanic from Kunkstar and his reviewer (who both aren't stupid), just to justify your vote on me. You are the scum here.

Can you explain this paragraph?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Serious question for mykonian. Why is a wagon on XScorpion scummy, whereas a wagon on any of the other players is not?

Reputation

That's a fair enough point, but your vote on me makes no logical sense. I've never played with XScorpion before and I know absolutely nothing about him. Also, if you honestly believe that a wagon on XScorpion was scummy, wouldn't it make sense to vote for one of the people who turned it into a random wagon?

Would you have voted for the first person to vote for XScorpion in the RVS stage regardless of who it was?

[Haschel Cedricson]

If nothing else would come up, I would vote for the person at the start of the Scorpion bandwagon, as that would give less trouble later.

Why would you be concerned about your vote giving trouble later?

[Haschel Cedricson]

you know why

No, I don't. Explain now.

Wait, you're only addressing this now?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Were you serious or not? If you weren't serious then feel free to not answer, but if you were, explain.

Oh, I was absolutely serious that you knew why.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Think about it. Why might I vote for you?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Not quite; any lulz are a byproduct of the actual reason.

You're on the right track, though.

[Haschel Cedricson]

A RVS excuse is better than no excuse.

See? I knew you knew it was the RVS!

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hey danakillsu, what do you think of Mykonian's play?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I disagree with your handling of the XScorpion wagon (and this isn't OMGUS; I would have asked these questions regardless of who the first XScorpion voter was), but your clarifications make sense and I don't think you're scummy. I'm particularly intrigued by post 11 and think it's an interesting point. For now, you check out.

Post 80 is also really good.

Unvote, Vote: Stef

I have a meeting with my wedding caterer, so no more from me until later this evening.

[Haschel Cedricson]

It seems like you're beating a dead horse here, and it's sounding dangerously close to, "Why me?" What do you hope to get out of mykonian?

I'm not hoping to get anything; I already got it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hi all. Long [expletive deleted day]. I'll reread this properly tomorrow. For now from recent posts I'm not liking HC's response to RC's question, the implication seeming to be that the response he wanted was for mykonian to stop voting him, which if true seems over-cautious.

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

Were you looking for any other response from mykonian than for him to remove his vote from you? If so what?

I felt it was odd for mykonian to say that he found a bandwagon on XScorpion suspicious while placing his vote on the first person to vote XScorpion in the RVS instead of one of the people who turned it into an actual wagon, especially when one of the voters specifically said they were voting in order to create a bandwagon. I was looking for an explanation, and I got it. It's irrelevant that I was the person who got voted for.

Way to read the thread.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Overall I have a null read on mykonian. I think his confidence in his reads at this point is somewhat scummy, but is balanced out by his good use of logic and his willingness to post a lot of confidence.

Elaborate.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I guess Red has also discounted a bit too much of what everyone else has to say without bringing out a lot of his own comments on the state of the game, but that's about it for his one bigish post.

Don't ignore me.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I posted my reason for voting Scorp after I voted for him. At this moment you're just spamming.

Restate your reason.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC
In what way do you want me to elaborate? Do you want me to provide specific examples?

I want you to reconcile how he is using good logic, yet is is scummy for being confident in his good logic.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC
Oh, I see. The discrepancy is because I am talking about different times. He seems

overconfident in his early reads

that have nothing really backing them and logical recently. This is how he ends up at a null read. If he continues posting the way he is now, I would be willing to call him town.

I think his confidence in his reads

at this point

is somewhat scummy,

Try again.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Why only ask dana about mykonian’s play?

Gotta ask somebody. It's easier to call people out for not responding if they were the only one given the task.

Speaking of which: dana, what are your thoughts on this specific post?

More discussion would have been preferable before the serious voting started.

Discussion about what?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm starting to see the point of RVS. Take it out of the equation and scumtells transform from actual arguments to extremely weak cases. More discussion would have been preferable before the serious voting started.

@Magna: I've got 4 votes on me. You can vote for me and put me at L-2.

I'm going to

Unvote

. Tunneling isn't helping and there's half the game I haven't been paying attention to. If I still find mykonian to be the scummiest player after the reread the vote will go back.

Oh, Stef, you have now dodged a question that was posed to you by two people. I wish I wasn't already voting you so I could threaten to vote for you if your next post didn't address why you voted for XScorpion.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@The Scorp Fos/Vote: I've seen him react to pressure and I thought it would be a good place to put some to get reactions. Once I voted he voted right back instead of asking for reasons. That => he voted for me voting for him. If he would have had a problem with my reasons he would have asked, something I pointed out previously. It's just fishy.

What reactions were you hoping to get, considering XScorpion had had three votes on him on the previous page? Where is this pressure coming from?

@Mykonian: You constantly refusing to acknowledge that I gave a reason for my attack on scorp really rubbed me the wrong way. Antihero was able to find my posts related to the subject easily. You, instead, quoted ALL my posts which did NOT explain my reasons and said that I did not post any reasons. Why would town do that exactly?

You didn't give your reasons or any indication that you had reasons until several posts after your vote, and after you started to take flak for voting on a prior bandwagon without giving reasoning.

The fos was just part of me putting pressure on him.

An FoS is a shitty way to apply pressure. If you want pressure, you vote.

@Antihero: It is scummy because of the OMGUS. Him invoking another game for not asking me why I voted for him is just fluff. Not defending yourself whatsoever is anti-town. I would never let an unexplained vote on me without even trying to find out what's behind it. My vote was not crap vote, fine, not a great one but still not crap and how could have scorp know if it's crap or not without asking? Also, my vote on mykonian was not OMGUS. Voting for the person voting for you =/= OMGUS.

The last sentence of your paragraph is comical in light of the first sentence of your paragraph. What was he supposed to defend himself against? You didn't give him anything to defend. Maybe you had a reason to vote him, but you sure didn't act like it, and XScorpion reacted accordingly. That's not OMGUS and you know it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

What reactions were you hoping to get, considering XScorpion had had three votes on him on the previous page? Where is this pressure coming from?

So more pressure would not get any different reactions? Don't see where you're getting at.

Jack had unvoted, putting XScorpion at two votes. Your "pressure" vote put XScorpion back up to three, so you didn't really add more pressure at all, did you? What reactions were you hoping to get? What made THIS "XScorpion has three votes" more pressure-filled than the last "XScorpion has three votes"?

[Haschel Cedricson]

That's very much out of context. mykonian claimed that XScorp was an easy lynch. I disputed that and contrasted it with Antihero or dana, both of whom I thought would be more fitting of mykonian's description.

you were speaking out your behind when you said the above then considering you said afterwards that

No, actually I don't have meta on either dana or Antihero, so I'm only making gross generalizations about them.

So which is it? You disputed and contrasted mykonian by thinking that antihero and dana would be more fitting? Or you were just making a gross generalization regarding these two with no meta behind it?

This is actually a good point and RC needs to respond to it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC
I would say about that post "goodposting".

Wait, which post are you referring to?

About that "discrepancy" I would just say ignore the "at this point". It wasn't supposed to mean "right now", so I guess it was a poor choice of words.

What was it supposed to mean, then?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Heads up: I've suddenly found myself without a placement for my student teaching, so my participation may be sporadic while I'm focused on getting this fixed.

[Haschel Cedricson]

one reason I can think of why you wouldn't claim miller in a game where you know there is a vig would be because you generally won't make it to day 3. Vigs have a tendency to shoot millers.

anyway, nice protown move. Gives away that scum also have to worry about a cop (or are already worrying about a cop), and that the cop won;t have to investigate you now. Even if you fakeclaimed, he would get a "guilty".

This post feels rather expositiony.

dana, on the other hand, couldn't be playing it more safe (or "relaxed" as he puts it; I'll get to that later in this post). Completely shut off to the rest of the game. Check out the exchange he had with HC. They go on and on about how he said you had good logic but seemed scummy. HC, over multiple posts, tries to get dana to open up, and, boy, dana does everything in his power to effectively shutdown HC's interrogations. They look to have eventually settled on a poor choice of words, but that may just be because HC has been away from the game for a bit.

This post, on the other hand, feels great and everybody should read it.

Vote imaginality

You have offered close to no content. It's time you do so.

Why are you voting for imaginality?

Second question for you, Stef.* I am the vigilante.** I am probably going to kill dana tonight, but I'm wavering.** Convince me to either pull the trigger or spare Dana's life.

*It's actually more of a hypothetical scenario than a question, but the gist of it is the same.
**Statement may or may not actually be true.

[Haschel Cedricson]

sorry haschel, can't find that word. What are you trying to say?

I guess I mean what you said should be so obvious to everybody playing the game that the act of actually saying it almost feels like you're providing exposition to an outside reader who is unfamiliar with Mafia.

There's probably a better way to phrase that.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Dana: I am the vigilante.* I am probably going to kill Stef tonight, but I'm wavering.* Convince me to either pull the trigger or spare Stef's life.

*Statement may or may not actually be true.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Shoot him. He's a possible scumbuddy to RC from his strange statement that his posting has improved and his wishy-washiness over him. He's not scummy for things he's done, just by connection to RC, but you could definitely do worse for an NK.

Wouldn't it be better for you to convince me to shoot RC?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm at PAX this weekend, so I won't have regular access until Monday, but I can address a few points that were directed towards me. I don't think the mykonian thing was scummy, it was just odd. As for dana, I wasn't trying to set h him up at all. In fact, I honestly thought he would argue that I should spare Stef.

Look at the relationship between Stef and dana. Dana has done scummy things, yet Stef doesn't address them. Stef has done scummy things, and dana has gone on the record as describing it as "goodposting". My question to each of them was intended to probe exactly what the relationship is between the two, if any. Now as soon as I force dana to take a stance on Stef, he completely changes his mind to supporting a Stef kill. So now dana supports killing a player who has been "goodposting" for no reason other than they MIGHT be linked to another player who dana finds scummy. To me this feels like dana feels Stef is going down today and is making a clumsy attempt to bus.

My question wasn't "Should I shoot Stef or not". I asked to convince me to either shoot or spare. If dana thinks Stef is town, which he has spent most of the day implying, then the proper response to my question should absolutely be "Don't shoot Stef, Y is a much better target for reasons Z".

Also, this so-called link isn't really there; his argument is "Stef described my suspect's posting as improved, and he's not sure if we should lynch my suspect." That's hardly enough to advocate shooting Stef over Player Y.

I'll try to get on tomorrow night.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Oh, sure, my vote on Stef feels forced after post 284. Give it a rest, guys.

No, it feels forced after post 259. Post 284 just reads like shoddy retconning.

Antihero is right and RedCoyote is wrong as far as their thoughts on Stef's imaginality vote goes. A single pressure vote this late in the day isn't going to magically make somebody start posting again; prods are the better tool here.

Got back from PAX last night, will go over this weekend with a closer read later.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Claim: Unrequited best friend

Like a one-way mason. I know that Stef is innocent but he knows nothing about me. A wagon on him was ideal from my perspective as it allows a much better read of the game.

When did this role become popular? I had never seen it before I came back from my absence and now it happens to show up in two games with Jack in a row?

I'm sure you'll understand if I don't unvote Stef right away. Can you elaborate on why Antihero is scum?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Well, I think that if you were willing to call Stef scum based solely on his link to RC, and then you learn Stef isn't scum, it should do more than make your "assocation" between them void, it also has possible implications to your scum read.

I dunno, but hopping right back to RC without any scum hunting inbetween seems like a pretty poor choice.

Actually, that's the first internally-consistent thing dana has done in quite some time.

It's not important.

At this point it actually is.

Anyhoo, do you approve or disapprove of dana's answer to the "Convince me to shoot/save Stef" scenario? Why or why not?

[Haschel Cedricson]

And don't even try to tell me to put together a case on RC. I have done so already, and I am tired of people ignoring a lot of what I say.

Give me the Cliff's Notes.

RedCoyote, can you elaborate on your thoughts about Jack's claim?

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm reading and have thoughts, but now I need to wait for drmyshottyizsik to get caught up.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Yeah you might be waiting a while. For nothing. Just sayin'.

I know, and unfortunately it's the fact that I know that makes it necessary.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

Altrfinght, herdsz the deal. Ja k an d i were recently ina game called Whikte Flag Magia wi9th Roed COyote and Drmyshottyhjiszik. n this ghame we staretged a bandwagon on drmyushottyhikszei, that ultimately resulted on is lujnch. Redxcohyt was an unerequilteed bestf riend witbh drmyhshotthyjissik anre post garme we talke about how inf redcoutote had claimed earlier thane we might have avoided two mizslynfches.

Nopwe we bhave a game - the game ONE RIGHRTE AFTER WHItEFlag - where we have THE EZXACT SAME CILAIM in similar circumstances (i., e gthe firzst major bandwagon just happens to be congfiemed towen by someboyd esle- an Redcoyhtoe downsnt thintk it[s worht commentinhg on. i find terhisd bizawrre., I';m not sayuhjting that Jack is not a cunreequitred neigrfbor but ikt do think it is mindzbolrdvgggling that redcouvotye doent find this odd at all. SAtef and dqana have been invdceredibvly scumy this game, so werhen somebo9unbdyh sayhs something that cleafdredsx one oft mu two major suspectesx it'm fgoine to liik t6o see if thewstory mkaes sense. jacdk's stoyur is not impowssible. butr is it improbsbler? io thiknyt swo.

i UNDREWSTAND MYKONIKAN'S POJKNT ABOUT MOH THERE IS BEYR EW SCENARISONS TAHT RESULT IN A SCMMMM STEF FEVREN IF HHACK IS LYING BUT IF THINK THAERE IS A PISTTIBILIYT THAT JACK ASSUMES THAQT REDCOYOTE AND I WILL BE CAUTION WHEN VONTRONTED WHTI THE UNTEQUITED NERINGHBOR CLim so I'm noiw quite qure what to thinm,k. my gut says that jakf is lyinghm, but i'm noiut sure. hjis pluarystye this game is rapikdly becom3ing unJMaklike, and iwant to press Rodscotute to see what he hitnks.

aint he meantime i am not unffotinh Stref; zslghoui mykonisn raises a vsalaind point I think awite flang magia makines things not mneatly as cuyt and drikned.

[Haschel Cedricson]

oh fujck is was foing to wayit for drmyshotty is sixk to pist but i suippoiese in the lont reun it dopes matte.r

[Haschel Cedricson]

Sorry, guys, I know I've been slacking lately. There are a few reasons for this:

1) Jack's claim has caused me to check all of my premises, and although I started to do that while drunk, it's important enough to also merit mulling over while sober.
2) I am getting married this Saturday*, and wedding prep has taken up much of my time. (The drunkpost was post-bachelor party!)
3) More importantly, I am finally student-teaching, and that takes up even more of my time.
4) Finally, I play Mafia sort of like a surfer. As long as I can stay on top of the wave I do fine. If I get knocked off my board, I can find it difficult to get back up.

I will reread the last couple of pages now, compose my thoughts, and post them later tonight. Sorry about the drop in posting; I'll try not to let it happen again*

*I should have limited Internet access during the honeymoon, but for obvious reasons will not be checking the site as often.

Mod: I will have limited access from the 19th-25th.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I will reread the last couple of pages now, compose my thoughts, and post them later tonight. Sorry about the drop in posting; I'll try not to let it happen again*

The site was down when I tried to do this, so I'm pushing my post back until tomorrow.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Hey Kunkstar, last Friday I stole this setup and ran it as a face-to-face game for the WOUFellas Social Club, only I increased the number of scum from three to five. The town lost the cop and the tracker on night 1, but still managed to lynch the final Mafia member with five townies left.

This wound up being a close game, but it was mostly the town making things difficult for themselves; without Jack, dana, and drmyshottyizsik doing their things this game wouldn't have been as close.

Everybody at the live-action game loved the mechanic of passing the vig, though, and so did I. Thanks for modding this game; I really enjoyed it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: Just read the scum Quicktopic. People actually thought I was breadcrumbing? That's exactly the opposite of what I was trying to do.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I don't get a comment?