I'd forgotten to respond to this because I'd been reading the pair-analysis.
EarthIntruder wrote:AVox wrote:I find his lack of scumhunting irritating and potentially scummy (if you were to flip town, for example, then it might throw a new light onto his vote). I agree that the "suspect me if you want" comment was strange and a little scummy. But the vote itself I don't find suspicious because Omnino has been suspicious, and theperson had picked up on this (albeit through the conduit of other players on most points). Whilst theperson isn't the most outwardly townie player by a long shot, I still have lingering town leanings on him due to Michel's read and subsequent flip.
Fair enough, I suppose, but I'd argue that basing your read on someone off of a dead player's read is a little shaky.
It's more based on the NK and the fact that Michel is confirmed-town. Why would theperson kill off someone who argued for his township? Yes, it could be WIFOM, and it's something to look into should you flip town (see later in the post for a little more on this). But Michel's argument - of the opportunistic bandwagon - was a strong one, and it seems to have more legitimacy now that I know that there were no ulterior motives behind it.
EarthIntruder wrote:As for theperson's previous suspicion on me, there was
ISO 8, which both I and omnino have responded to (omnino said those things because he didn't understand the setup and his scumteam speculation is based on HIS OWN meta).
There's
ISO 16 in which he refers to his previous post.
Uhh...
Well, the one-PR slip I feel is a legitimate one; using his experience when he was mafia to look for a scumtell is still looking for a scumtell. He expands on these reasons in his #18, which I'll go into below. As I said before, I think you're right to be wary of theperson in as far as some elements of his case seem to rely on the scumhunting done by others. Would you make the same accusation of 2k3?
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The reasoning in theperson's #18:
theperson wrote:I asked him where he saw that 2k3 was confused. He quoted the post that I had written that in but didn't answer the question at all. This gives me reason to suspect an omnino-2k3 scumteam. Seems to me like omnino was trying to protect 2k3 so he gave a reason, but he couldn't back it up.
I believe avoiding answering questions is a legitimate scumtell. Omnino tried to discredit the "defending" read, but it's a pretty standard thing to look for. At the same time, Omnino didn't quote 2k3 and point to where he seemed confused over inconsistent.
theperson wrote:Then of course there's the whole power role thing. [SNIP] It could be an honest mistake, or it could be that he's a member of a two goon scumpair and has it set in his mind that there's one power role then tries to make up for it, but doesn't think it through. Or both.
Again, I think this is a legitimate scumtell. He does analyse it as well, offering different takes on it. Not original, but it is one of the most legitimate slips I think there's been in the game so far.
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On the other hand, there are a few things that were off about theperson's #18. I'm pretty confident that we've got scum in the Omnino/EI slot, but if EI were to flip town, I would look carefully at these more negative aspects. I want to get some answers before Night, so that theperson's answers are ready going into D3.
theperson wrote:OK, I'm not even gonna make excuses. Suspect me from this if you want. I'll just get to it.
This sounded off to me. I'm still waiting to hear what we were meant to be suspicious of - is it the timing of the vote, the context of the rest of his post? The vote itself?
theperson wrote:Looking through the ISOs, regrettably I didn't have a sudden breakthrough that no one else has discovered. I have decided that I would prefer an EarthIntruder lynch because [SNIP] it seems like everyone or almost everyone is OK with his lynch.
This is the important question that I want answered
This part of his argument isn't good reasoning at all. If everyone agrees to a lynch, you should try to assess if you think that means scum has engineered a mislynch or whether you think one scum is bussing another. If "almost everyone" agrees, then who disagrees and why?
Theperson; what is your take on this situation?
theperson wrote:His argument on Michel (ISO #11 and 12) was largely a misunderstanding. I'm not sure if he meant it that way or not, but he said that Michel was handing me a town card, when he was actually handing me a town card IF I got quicklynched.
Actually, Michel was saying zauper was probably town due to the bandwagon on him looking too opportunistic. Potentially misrepping here?
theperson wrote:I think here he could have been trying to find inconsistencies in Michel's play so purposely misinterpreted it to try and add to his argument. Just because of the fact that it happened (I think) in ISO #11 and 12 makes me think it might not be a coincidence.
^ makes me wonder if there was a WIFOM NK after all. Defending Michel's arguments indirectly defends Michel's town-read on Zauper and thus theperson.
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EarthIntruder, what did you make of theperson's #18? You said in #545 that you felt it was empty of real scumhunting. Was there a reason you neglected to go into detail about what specific elements of the post in you found suspicious? Or why you haven't asked him any questions about it directly?