Newbie 981 ~ Over

[Andrius]

Look, Adrien. You are town. I am Cop, un-counter-claimed.
The only one left is obviously JVW.

Besides, the only way he can win is by getting me lynched.

[Adrien C]

There's another scenario, Andrius. I want to make sure I'm making the right decision before I choose.

[Andrius]

Yeah, and I do know the other scenario, and I recognize it.
However, you've gotta' believe me on this. Why would I leave JVW alive, when I've been gut reading mothrax all game? I know this is uber-WIFOM country here, but I wouldn't kill my #1 scum read just to make the game harder for me. I'm not

that

good of a player.

[Adrien C]

JVW, I want to hear from you before I make my decision.

[Andrius]

Also, as a side note, this is my first and last game as SE.
I got approved as an IC, so.

[Adrien C]

@Your side note: Congrats.

[Andrius]

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long. :/
This is my only active game now, so hopefully it'll keep me over until another one comes out of NP.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count 30

[1] julienvonwolfe - (Andrius)

[0] Andrius - ()
[0] Adrien C - ()

[2]

Not Voting

- (Adrien C, julienvonwolfe)

Deadline is at Sunday, September 12, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Los Angeles time).

With

3

alive, it's

2

to lynch!

--Announcement--

My activity level on MS is dropping a lot due to drastic changes in my personal life, in addition to my limited access period. I'm hoping Nikanor can pick up some of the slack if it becomes a problem. This game is my top MS priority since modding is always what comes first.

Thank you,
Kitty~

[julienvonwolfe]

Heh, wow. I've never been in a lylo quite like this one before. I think Andrius has done an admirable frame-up job; obviously Adrien is town since he hasn't hammered, which lays all my crazy side-theories to rest. Unfortunately, it's Monday morning for me at the moment and I need to get to class, but be assured I'll post tonight with an analysis of Andrius' play.

[Adrien C]

Well, this is my theory. If mothrax was your biggest scumread, why did you investigate him instead of JVW? Why didn't you die? Why did you keep me around since everyone knew I was town? Because you thought I was trusting you, correct? Doesn't work like that. You knew I was suspicious of you when the last day phase started. You, as a goon, knows there isn't a cop so you decided to claim it and try to sweeten me (your biggest opponent at the time) by confirming me as town. If I was trusting you, we'd go for a random shot in the dark with the other three. But uh-oh...what happens when you're alive the next day? You hope and prayed I'd stick to your side, the only reason I see for me surviving the night phase. If JVW was scum, you or I should be dead right now. He's an IC, he's not stupid.

I still want to see JVW's analysis post before coming to a final conclusion.

[Andrius]

Why didn't I die? I'm not sure. I was thinking that you'd be offed before me, as you're confirmed town and I'm not. My death confirms you. Your death confirms no one. JVW wouldn't kill me.

I didn't kill you though. It was a stupid move on JVW's part, not killing you. I was going to re-investigate mothrax N2, but I did a reread, and thought that your replacee was kinda' sketchy D1 and buddying a bit. So I Investigated him.

JVW, hurry up and vote me. I want Adrien to hammer me, so you cap him once he kicks me off the stool.

Adrien, please. Just look at the case from my side. I can tell you're probably going to vote me, which is going to get me killed.

HOWEVER. WE HAD THIS. DAY ONE WE HAD THIS. WE HAD LYNCHED SCUM. WE DID SO GREAT. (NOT LIKE WE WOULDNT HAVE GOTTEN SHOTTY AFTER HIS N1 TUTORING FROM HIS IC-BUDDY) BUT DAMMIT. WE TOTALLY HAD THIS ONE.

GO LOOK AT THE WAGONS. JVW DIDNT VOTE DRSHOTTY, ONLY THE TOWNIES WITH BALLS VOTED HIM DEAD. D2, WHAT HAPPENED? JVW AVOIDED THE LYNCH OF A TOWNIE. THE ONLY TIME HE EVEN VOTED WAS TO SAVE HIS OWN HIDE D3. I MEAN, YEAH. I'VE DONE SOME SCUMMY STUFF. HELL, I WAS ON THE WAGONS OF TWO TOWNIES.

BUT AT LEAST I PUT MY (COP) NECK OUT THERE TO SAVE EVERYONE. JULIEN HID AND DIDN'T EVEN VOTE TO HELP THE TOWN. HE TOTALLY JUST SAT THERE AND LET TOWNIES BE LYNCHED. HE MAINLY LURKED THROUGH D1, NOT EVEN TAKING ENOUGH TIME TO MAKE AN OPENING IC-POST.

[Andrius]

And yeah. I'm kind of angry. We have been so close to a win here for so long. We were always one lynch away... only for JVW to semi-lurk/coast to a win here.

And for all you newbies watching, this is a friendly reminder from someone who's been there:

If there is an IC alive past D3, he's probably scum.

Thank you, and <3 KittyMo.

[Andrius]

Adrien, ISO JVW.

In an 18-page game, he has 21 posts.
That's not even a page.
Coasting much?

[Adrien C]

If I was fully committing to your lynch, I would have voted you already. I'm just going to explore all possibilities before rushing to a conclusion.

[Adrien C]

And seriously, dude...CALM THE HELL DOWN!! This is a game. Relax.

[Adrien C]

Not a fan of AtE, by the way.

[Andrius]

I'm actually not as upset as I sound. lol If I were I'd sound a whole lot more like Fate.

I wasn't going for AtE. I was stating my position.

[Adrien C]

JVW, hurry up and vote me. I want Adrien to hammer me, so you cap him once he kicks me off the stool.

AtE, dude.

[Andrius]

JVW, hurry up and vote me. I want Adrien to hammer me, so you cap him once he kicks me off the stool.

AtE, dude.

If that piddly amount of AtE is something worth bringing up, then yes, I see it. BUT, he's obviously going to kill you if you vote me, so its not like you don't know that.

[julienvonwolfe]

This has been a weird case to write. Normally you're not sure that somebody's scum and are merely proposing a theory. However, here I'm having to write a case with the knowledge that this guy is scum and it's weird because not all the language translates well from the one form into the other, especially as I'm having to present it to somebody as yet unconvinced that Andrius is 100% scum.

1. Cop Claim:

Most of Andrius' approach to the late game revolves around his cop claim on Day 3. Obviously, there is no proof that he is the cop as there is no dead roleblocker, and we have not even a flip from a person he's investigated. He's managed to clear you, Adrien, but without proving himself. As a kind of pithy response to Andrius' line about ICs living past day three: if a claimed cop is still alive when there's no doc, he's probably scum. Hey, it makes just as much sense.

Take a look at this post from yesterday:

1. Take a leap of faith with me. I'm an SE who's been purposefully playing somewhat badly (as I told Adrien) so I'd be kept alive this far.
2. Even if I were scum, Adrien is still confirmed town.
3. I played scummily for a reason. You have to play somewhat badly when you're an important role. Otherwise the mafia will kill you. In larger games you can't play too well or risk the mafia killing you, but if you play too badly the Vig will get you, so.

We see here twice that he played 'scummily' on purpose: or is the cop claim just a convenient cover?

(IC MODE: Also, I actually disagree that you have to play somewhat badly with an important role; instead, play town so that the town doesn't lynch you or accidentally force the role out of you, and you're more likely to draw doc investigations at night. Should've said that yesterday.)

Going further back, we see his true plan revealed in this post (and others like it). So, despite his protestations that mothrax was his scum-read, with this post and his 'ICs should be dead early on" line he's keeping me ready to try and lynch:

everyone is a suspect here....... lol

Nope. Just you mothrax and julienvonwolfe.
If we lynch them randomly we have a 66% chance of winning.

Further quixotic elements of Andrius' cop claim include the whole roleblocker thing, which we have only his word for, his godawful 'breadcrumb'/reveal/not-reveal, and his idiosyncratic choice of targets. There's not much to say about these though, other than to point them out, remark that they're odd, and to let you ruminate.

I'm a big fan of, in cases, explaining why something is scummy. Obviously this is different as I'm writing about somebody that I know to definitely be scum, so, again, it's difficult; I'll point out, however, that the town has not benefited in any way from Andrius' claim, and indeed it led to the jntp lynch yesterday.

2. Bussing of Dr. Mynameistoolongsik

Basically, as far as I can make it out, it goes "Gosh, better distance from this guy." Then, to gauge the town's reaction, "Did anybody else see that?" (directed to me, below). After frantic apologies from the good doctor, "calm down, and we'll try to lynch somebody else." Then, of course, "Halo." Finally, "okay, dammit, this is the only way. Claim!" Read the relevant posts that I extracted from day one and see whether or not you agree.

Wait sorry!!! i typed wrong name!!!
VOTE: Andrius

I'm a tad concerned this could be a big scum slip. Like, this could be a big issue here.

Vote: Dr.myshottyissik

Why are you voting me?

@ julien: Hi back!

*snip*

Oh and, did you see what Dr did when voting?

Andrius i'm sorry i kinda jumped on the band waggon and asumed you were scum. Sorry

Andrius i'm sorry i kinda jumped on the band waggon and asumed you were scum. Sorry

Slow down a bit. We don't need a quicklynch this early.
Needless to say, I'm still voting for you because that could have been a massive scum slip.

Does anyone here play Halo?

Ok I'm back what'd I miss?

Halo? Only played it twice. Didn't really impress me.

Good. Don't rule anyone out as scum just because they seem town. I learned that from experience, after the two most townie players flipped mafia in my first game.

Ok. drmyshottyizsik, please claim your role when you post next.
I'm going to assume that willows would be willing to hammer, after her "huge fos".

The main scummy feature in this that should make you agree that it's bussing is that there's not much between the 'we dont need a quicklynch' and the 'please claim' - only the 'halo' and Willows making the same point that Andrius did in his original vote. Thus, the case actually did not progress at all, yet Andrius saw fit to push on with the lynch; this should suggest that he saw it as important to be seen to drive the lynch, in order to derive maximum benefit from the bussing.

Oh, also this gem... lol

DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SCUMBUDDY.

You can and will be modkilled and/or worse if you do that.
(It is common sense, but still. People do it semi-often.)

Okay, those are the main points. Other things to note are his eagerness to lynch Tangion (see 189) and, probably as a reaction to the backlash that followed that, his extreme reticence in lynching jntp; no doubt he was hoping that Adrien would hammer rather than have to be instrumental on another townie lynch. Also, although he's made many, many posts he doesn't have much actual content (see the 'halo' affair again). Even big vote count analysis in his iso 77 isn't actually analysis but a presentation of information from which he draws conclusions without adequate explanation. And... hmm, oh yeah, his recent meltdown under pressure. I reckon that's a pretty good case, but then, you don't have the benefit of sitting in my shoes.

Final note: I'm pretty sure that I

did

vote Dr. Shotty, contrary to Andrius said in rant mode. I'll also own up to 'voting' for Tangion, even though I didn't in the end: I made my intent clear at the time and supported the lynch. Also, I didn't post much in Day One, it's true, but then again it was a very short day thanks to ChosenSoul's quick hammer.

[julienvonwolfe]

Ack, and: VOTE: Andrius

[Adrien C]

Andrius, I give you one more post to defend yourself.

[Andrius]

Way back when I actually played Newbie games two at a time, I heard this wonderful line that goes like this: "the more you post, the scummier you look. [its natural]."

So far we've obviously let JVW coast through the entire game, not even getting 25 posts in (one page) in this whole discussion. Not that posting loads means you're obv_town, but lurking scum is bad

Actually, I Investigated mothrax N3. And guess what. I got a town result. I was all happy until he was dead. After a moment of WTF I realized I also got a Guilty on JVW. Because I've Investigated all three of you. Mothrax investigated town, and was dead. Julien C was N2's choice. JVW, you tried to throw me a curveball by purposefully not RBing me, but you ended up hannding me a Guilty result.
Why you didn't RB me is beyond me ATM. Killing me and leaving Julien C and mothrax would have been the smarter move, I would think. But oh well.

Response to WALL OF TEXT that makes it look like he's never been coasting:

We see here twice that he played 'scummily' on purpose: or is the cop claim just a convenient cover? (IC MODE: Also, I actually disagree that you have to play somewhat badly with an important role; instead, play town so that the town doesn't lynch you or accidentally force the role out of you, and you're more likely to draw doc investigations at night. Should've said that yesterday.)

I played Doc in Trader Mafia, and tried to keep a dumb profile, acted very VI. (I was actually a Mafia Doctor.)
I've done this before, and its never failed me. You get a good PR that is helpful to the town, (since I know I'm not a good enough player to always draw protection), I play on the neutral side and keep from seeming too town, else I am NK'd. This is especially true with Masons. You just gotta' hide and wait for that massclaim.

I'll point out, however, that the town has not benefited in any way from Andrius' claim, and indeed it led to the jntp lynch yesterday.

Ummm, yeah it did. Adrien C is town. You are scum. Game is ours if C votes you. The game is won C plays follow-the-cop with me. My role has won the game for us, we jusst need to lynch you.

The main scummy feature in this that should make you agree that it's bussing is that there's not much between the 'we dont need a quicklynch' and the 'please claim' - only the 'halo' and Willows making the same point that Andrius did in his original vote. Thus, the case actually did not progress at all, yet Andrius saw fit to push on with the lynch; this should suggest that he saw it as important to be seen to drive the lynch, in order to derive maximum benefit from the bussing.

And you thought it best to hide for the rest of D1. Call it V/LA call it "life" you were blatantly coasting and avoiding his lynch.
ISO 1: You vote Dr-shotty and avoid helping the town without a IC-post.
ISO 2: "Hi I'm here don't replace me."
ISO 3: "Responded to prod."
ISO 4: Day Two. Coasted right by D1. Let Tangion get hit as the scumbuddy, and is now free of the deadweight-partner.

Oh, also this gem... lol

DO NOT REVEAL YOUR SCUMBUDDY.
You can and will be modkilled and/or worse if you do that.
(It is common sense, but still. People do it semi-often.)

Drreallylongname plays like shit sometimes. He actually fakeclaimed Cop, then said I lied and fakeclaimed VT before he claimed scum in one game, and almost outed his partners before his lynch. HE IS KNOWN FOR SOME REALLY SHITTY PLAY. I had a feeling about this guy, (and both of you, I'm sure, have seen downright STUPID PLAY in your time here), and I was right. (I know this because I reviewed the game he did this in.)

Okay, those are the main points. Other things to note are his eagerness to lynch Tangion (see 189) and, probably as a reaction to the backlash that followed that, his extreme reticence in lynching jntp; no doubt he was hoping that Adrien would hammer rather than have to be instrumental on another townie lynch. Also, although he's made many, many posts he doesn't have much actual content (see the 'halo' affair again). Even big vote count analysis in his iso 77 isn't actually analysis but a presentation of information from which he draws conclusions without adequate explanation. And... hmm, oh yeah, his recent meltdown under pressure. I reckon that's a pretty good case, but then, you don't have the benefit of sitting in my shoes.

Yeah, I was eager to lynch Tangion. He was #1 buddy to Drshotty. OBV.
Yeah, I was hesitant with the jntp lynch. B/c I gut read mothrax and only re-jumped on the jntp wagon because we were 13 hours from deadline and I'd have no time to hammer within deadline.
I don't "meltdown" under pressure. I get emotional because we're SO CLOSE to winning this thing. In Greek Mythology, I had to hammer my scumbuddy to win. I waited ALL DAY, lurked online ALL DAY, even took my status to Invisible, so that I'd lure a townie into doing it. After like 12 hours of watching the thread, he was finally at L-1 and I STOLE THE HAMMER AND DESTROYED HIM. It was glorious. My first scum win, and it was amazing.
Its like, we totally have this game, Adrien C. JVW was trying some shenanigans that left me alive. And ever since I claimed Cop I knew that this scenario would turn up.
JVW has been hard-core coasting all through the game. You know lynch all lurkers? Yeah. That's a real good policy. It would win this game for sure.

Look, I'm not going to write up another big post, because its not worth the OC to do so. You've got the final vote, my vote will not change.

But if you throw this win away from us, this lucky streak we've had since Dr's lynch on D1; we're sitting here with a Cop's Guilty on someone! We're THIS close, and all that's in our way is, well, you. lol

Whatever. I guess it

is

just a game, but we've come so far, and to fall down flat at the very end would be... horrid.

[julienvonwolfe]

There are a few things in Andrius' post that I want to comment on:

I'll point out, however, that the town has not benefited in any way from Andrius' claim, and indeed it led to the jntp lynch yesterday.

Ummm, yeah it did. Adrien C is town. You are scum. Game is ours if C votes you. The game is won C plays follow-the-cop with me. My role has won the game for us, we jusst need to lynch you.

The main scummy feature in this that should make you agree that it's bussing is that there's not much between the 'we dont need a quicklynch' and the 'please claim' - only the 'halo' and Willows making the same point that Andrius did in his original vote. Thus, the case actually did not progress at all, yet Andrius saw fit to push on with the lynch; this should suggest that he saw it as important to be seen to drive the lynch, in order to derive maximum benefit from the bussing.

And you thought it best to hide for the rest of D1. Call it V/LA call it "life" you were blatantly coasting and avoiding his lynch.
ISO 1: You vote Dr-shotty and avoid helping the town without a IC-post.
ISO 2: "Hi I'm here don't replace me."
ISO 3: "Responded to prod."
ISO 4: Day Two. Coasted right by D1. Let Tangion get hit as the scumbuddy, and is now free of the deadweight-partner.

*snip*

You know lynch all lurkers? Yeah. That's a real good policy. It would win this game for sure.

1) You're dodging entirely my argument that you were bussing with... I don't even know what your point is, really. I will reiterate my point about the shortness of day one and Chosen's quickhammer. I think my activity's been fairly constant throughout the whole game. I don't know why you've been so hung up on the lack of an IC style post. If it's such a big deal why didn't you mention it before or take my advice in the first post and look at any of the other billions of IC style posts that have already been made, if you needed it?

2) Also, you've suddenly started whinging about my activity, when you haven't before - were you planning to leave it until the last minute and then use it as part of the case to try and lynch me? As I said before, I think I've been pretty consistent.

[Andrius]

I think I've been pretty consistent coasting.

Fixed.