Newbie 982 - Shadows of Death, Game Over!

[Hinduragi]

1. I only had a similarity in reads with him. The other times I quoted/mentioned him were to mainly give my opinion on something.
2.

I sure as hell don't agree with Omnino that Akira should be given a "Pass Go" ticket out of this lynch. A couple of town posts doesn't take him off the chopping block.

If you can picture any scum who is willing to say "Hey, why is he being given a 'Pass Go' ticket out of this lynch" then tell me. If you look at the quote and you take it from a scum perspective, noone would have any reason to make said comment unless they were town. If the person in question is their scumbuddy, they wouldn't have made the post. If the person was town, he's just calling more attention to himself and scum wouldn't want that. He'd go for the popular lynch or for the second most popular lynch. I see this as a towntell because he fos'd zauper. He hadn't really said much about Akira at all.
3.

I just wish someone had saw this towntell.

4. Not very strong but strong enough to make me think twice about his lynch.
5. It's later in the game. Omnino hasn't posted in 2 weeks.(Why hasn't he been replaced?) Akira looked like the better candidate for a lynch in my eyes.
6. Post #426

Voting thing:
Okay, I see what you did. However, what if we had said we agreed with it? I'm starting to think I should have responded with a yes so I'd be able to verify you knew what you were doing.

2k3:
I want to hear something in your own words. All GB did was say he thought you were VI. I want to hear your own opinions. Take note that I also wanted an opinion on the defense GB made for you.

[2003041]

1) My suspicion did change when I was typing, which is the 'typing edit', since I can't ninja myself. The reason is mentioned later in that post. A couple reasons for the no-vote at this time;
a) I wanted to see what people think of the quote I posted above.
b) I'm just so frazzled between my three suspects that I don't want to vote blindly and get another mislynch.
c) I didn't have that much time to post earlier, so I wanted to get what I needed out there.
2) Hinduragi is a replacement into this game. If you look at Post 459, Hindu lists all of the actions he has seen and ends up voting for Akira. Then in 460, he says the possible scum slip of "...Lame, he is getting replaced." As I said before, we can look at this in a few ways.
a) He's town and his top suspect is gone.
b) He's town and is only upset because another person is being replaced.
c) He's scum and his set-up target is leaving.
d) He's scum and is upset that another person is being replaced.
Again, since Hinduragi is a replacement, I feel safe to say that B and D are not likely options. The way I see it, it looks like is the mor likely situation. The key word for me is the 'Lame', mainly because I feel if Hindu was town and Akira was his top suspect, I don't feel like he would say anything on the lines of 'bummer', but more on the lines of 'Oh well, I'll ask the new guy, then.'
3) My fault. I didn't re-read and misremembered. It was post 403 where theperson was suspecting a 2k3-omnino scumteam. My bad. I still have a gut feeling with him.

Ninja Edit:
@Hindu: I feel like you're looking for me to claim. I dug myself in a hole, GB helped me out of the hole. I'm a newbie to this game and still have a hard time grasping concepts of what questions to ask and when. I started to WIFOM, which just happens because of my personality, and GB calmed me down and helped me and the rest of the town to not have another Seth moment.

[Guybrush]

Ninja Edit:
@Hindu: I feel like you're looking for me to claim. I dug myself in a hole, GB helped me out of the hole. I'm a newbie to this game and still have a hard time grasping concepts of what questions to ask and when. I started to WIFOM, which just happens because of my personality, and GB calmed me down and helped me and the rest of the town to not have another Seth moment.

God kills kittens for this.
Heaven cries.
If I am wrong about 2003, I'll probably go crazy.
He's not scum you guys.

...

@Hindu

I was responding to Aurorus, but Hindu is much more interesting.

2. OK. Noted for my future games. Even though scum could fake it since they're faking being town all the time.
6. That's a lie. Try again. If you're not sure, why not just say "Not sure"?
Voting thing: If you two agreed with it happily, I would have explained to you why I think it's bad for town (like I did), and would have given scum points to both of you, since you're both smart to know better.

[AurorusVox]

Questions for everyone, some serious, some not.

@GB:

- I'm not interesting? Q_Q
- How sure, as a percentage, are you of your 2k3 read?
- Your previous "newb town" over "newb scum" relied on the misunderstanding about the pregame QT. What else has convinced you that 2k3 is newb town as opposed to scum? I'm willing to back off his lynch for today since I find mastermind equally suspicious and would be just as happy to see him lynched, but I'm certainly not seeing the same "obv town" aspect to 2k3 that you do.

@2k3:

- Don't EVER claim unasked unless you're at L-1. EVER.
- Are you looking for our take on the "lame" quote? It would be best if Hindu responded to it first.
- Okay, so now you're saying theperson was trying to set up a mislynch. Is that the only reason you suspect him, other than your gut read? Why do you think, if he was saying about a 2k3-Omnino scumteam, that he was going to vote for you over Omnino?
- Where were you WIFOMing?

@Hindu:

- Do you think your questions are going to get answered if you just keep restating them in the same way?
- What do

you

make of GB's defence of 2k3?
- Who is your second top suspect at the moment?

@Omnino:

- Where are you?
- Will you ever come back?

@theperson:

- See above

@mastermind:

- See previous questions

[Guybrush]

@GB:

- I'm not interesting? Q_Q
- How sure, as a percentage, are you of your 2k3 read?
- Your previous "newb town" over "newb scum" relied on the misunderstanding about the pregame QT. What else has convinced you that 2k3 is newb town as opposed to scum? I'm willing to back off his lynch for today since I find mastermind equally suspicious and would be just as happy to see him lynched, but I'm certainly not seeing the same "obv town" aspect to 2k3 that you do.

(1)
I caught Hindu in a lie. That's always fun.

(2)
90%

(3)
It wouldn't be in town's best interest for me to discuss it.
I'm just very frustrated with the whole situation, as I pointed it out several times.
Consider my opinion of him (even without arguments), maybe do a reread of him, and then decide what to do with him.
I won't be able to say more for now.

I obviously could be wrong about him (since I was wrong about seth and my suspicions of Michel), but I really think I am not this time.

[Hinduragi]

6. That's a lie. Try again. If you're not sure, why not just say "Not sure"?

It was a hidden scumhunting test, actually. I wanted to see if you were scum or not. I'm 99% you aren't now. The idea behind it is that scum wouldn't even bother checking my wall of text to see what quotes I had made and to see if they were actually investigating what I'd say would be false scumhunting. I mentioned that responding with a yes to your voting concept in order to distract you from thinking I'd try the same theory out in the same post. My actual answer is #458.

AV:
No, there's a reason I'm asking like this. If he is VI, he'd answer like he has so far. I am now almost positive 2k3 is VI based on his responses. If he was experienced scum, the theory goes that he'd eventually reveal some detailed opinions. There's a chance this is wrong but, based on what GB has said combined with the questions I asked 2k3, I am not willing to lynch him.
I thought it seemed scummy so, as you just witnessed, I tried out a test.
Omnino. Convenient how he disappeared right before I got here.

[Haylen]

vote count

[Guybrush]

This post contains some thoughts about my reread marathon I wanted to share.

A Problems

There are couple of problems with my reread:
1. I am not included in that analysis. People will not look at it the same way I do. It is not as convincing as individual cases.
2. There are too many actions which could go either way. (buddies or not)
3. Pair results alone give couple of "not buddies" and the rest is "neutral" or "interacted briefly". No "probably buddies".
4. When you're focused on pairs, you lose focus on individuals. You skip interactions with yourself and dead players.

B Solution plan

How to solve each problem:
1. The only scenario where you could find full use of it is if I'm dead. So I'll make sure to at least post short analysis before the deadline.
2. I will probably restrain myself from commenting stuff that I'm uncertain about. I'll post all the references to make it easier for future use.
3. The only cure for this is to make the best out of it from my POW. I will combine my individual suspicions with possible pairs.
4. I will do an ISO of my top 3 suspects. That should solve it.

C Schedule

First 2 nights

- ISO top 3 suspects and make individual cases on them

Next 2 nights

- Finish and publish my pair analysis

Meantime

- Continue questioning some people, if I see fit

D Next stop

1. boring Aurorus
2. Hindu again

[Guybrush]

@Aurorus

(1) Publishing observations

Check my previous post. (They will be ready.)

(2) Suspicious omnino

Check my previous post. (Waiting for ISO. Currently he's suspicious by elimination.)

(3) Omnino's replacement

If omnino turns out suspicious to me, I'll politely wait for the replacement, and give him a nice welcome, like I did with seth.

(4) mastermind vs Bazz (#481)

I'm not a fan of mastermind's reasoning.
This one wasn't at least full of misunderstandings, since by nature this was more of a interpretation thing.
He pointed out some things which don't look scummy, and made his interpretations where they could look scummy.
Sure, he might be right (for example - Aurorus and Bazz being a pair, eliminating Michel and focusing on those off the wagon).
I just don't think it's a strong case in general.

FAKE EDIT: However! I checked my pairs now, and I made this as one of my conclusions:
"If Aurorus is scum, then his buddy is most likely Bazz."
Seeing you asking me this makes me a bit uncomfortable about you.
Possible poking to see if you should be worried about me finding the real scum-pair, eh?

(5) Hindu vs Akira (#459)

The bottom line of this case is his behavior during the vote shift from zauper to seth.
Since I believe zauper is town, and we know seth was town, that would mean that town was jumping from 1 town member to another.
In such scum-relaxed scenario, I would believe that at least one scum's voting pattern would look like: "zauper-seth".
And Akira fits in that description.

FAKE EDIT: However! I did a quick ISO on Akira and his views, and I got the genuine vibe from his switch.
ISO #22 - he was forcing seth to respond to a valid question he was avoiding.
ISO #22-23 - he was asking him about policies, experience and his view on Valk.
ISO #24 - he didn't want others to comment because he seemed interested in hearing his response.
ISO #26 - he was frustrated by that quote, just as I initially was. I found it arrogant as well, even though that quote was in place.
ISO #27 - made a valid point about Valk and seth having the same trait, which was rather interesting.

There are 2 things that I found fishy though:
ISO #27 - Akira asked exp players should he use the role trait thing as prime tool to judge. We said "no". And yet he voted.
ISO #31 - I found his hammer a bit panicky. He was responding to your accusations and hammered in the same post.

(6) Which case is stronger

The case on Bazz - not that strong
The case on Akira - don't agree with his original arguments
Winner - the case on Bazz

[AurorusVox]

Possible poking to see if you should be worried about me finding the real scum-pair, eh?

Actually, I hope you do find the real scum pair. I just found it interesting that two of your top suspects suspect each other, and what you made of that (did you suspect bussing, or one-and-not-the-other; but I'm sure this will come out in more detail in your later pair-analysis).

I'll wait patiently for the rest.

[AurorusVox]

AV:
No, there's a reason I'm asking like this. If he is VI, he'd answer like he has so far. I am now almost positive 2k3 is VI based on his responses. If he was experienced scum, the theory goes that he'd eventually reveal some detailed opinions. There's a chance this is wrong but, based on what GB has said combined with the questions I asked 2k3, I am not willing to lynch him.

What do you make of the possibility that he is a newbie scum? How does that factor into your read?

I thought it seemed scummy so, as you just witnessed, I tried out a test.

When you said that you wished you had said "yes" in response to GB, was that honest, or all a part of the "distraction" for this test? I have a follow up question depending on your answer.

Omnino. Convenient how he disappeared right before I got here.

You say "Convenient" regarding Omnino and "lame" regarding Akira; 2k3 has raised an issue with this latter that would be worth addressing if you think he's town, and I'd like to know what you're insinuating by "convenient" here. Are you actually suggesting that Omnino has fled due to pressure from your questioning?

[theperson]

OK. Sorry guys, I've been a lot busier lately.

Guybrush, I haven't been scumhunting much because I haven't had much time. I could have gotten quite a bit of scumhunting in, but I didn't. I just took the lazy way out and posted some random stuff, and I apologize for this. While I don't have much time right now, tomorrow I'll make an effort to go back over the recent events (they still kind of confuse me) and read through ISOs and determine my #1 suspect. I don't get why you're ruling out that 2k3 could be newb scum? I understand the rule thing, but that was wrong...

Also, omnino said some strange things that I had pointed out somewhat, I'll show you what I mean when I read ISOs.

Sorry for not much today, but I'll try to get it in tomorrow.

Actually, since I'm eastern time, it's 12:24 so technically I'll get it today, but you know what I mean.

[Guybrush]

I was ISOing omnino when I started having a problem with my eye. So I quick finished my previous Hindu case, and I'll call it a day.
I'll get back to others tomorrow. Eye should get better after sleep.

*Sorry, but I don't have time to trim this post.

Problem #1 - Psychology tricks in #459

I asked him about his education, because I recognized some tricks in his #459. Turns out he does like psychology.

Tricks:
1. He used 5 references in 1 post to town-confirmed-Michel and how he agrees with him
2. He points out he spotted a towntell in a wrongly accused candidate
3. He introduced himself with "expect an aggressive playstyle from me"

Which translates into:
1. You need to associate me with Michel in your heads. I'll repeat it 5 times just in case. Oh yeah, and Michel was town.
2. I am useful. I see towntells. I'll save you from mislynches. You don't want me dead.
3. I'm tough. Keep it in mind if you decide to go after me. You better don't.

In my mind, there were no real reasons to point any of those 3 things. He overdid it with Michel, there was no actual need in pointing towntells in confirmed people, and we would have found out about his playstyle eventually.

Problem #2 - Reading posts issue

#447 (page 18) - Akira says goodbye (very visible information - single line in that post)
#454 (page 19) - Guybrush mentions reading 2003's previous game (not that visible information - in the middle of not-too-short post)
#459 (page 19) - Hinduragi goes after Akira; References to #454 as well (means he read all posts prior to his)
#460 (page 19) - Hinduragi just now realizes Akira is getting replaced (he posted that only 3 minutes after previous post)

So, OK. I can see someone miss a post in sea of posts even if it was SO visible (like Akira's goodbye).
But what exactly made him go 1 page in the past after writing that gigantic post? I'd be dead after writing #459 to be honest.
I thought he might be faking it because making a case against someone who is not here could be convenient for scum.
I asked him what was the last post he read while writing #459 to trick him to see if he'll fall for it.
He does. He says #426. Well that seems pretty confident. And a lie. (since he referred to my #454 in his post)
Why would he say #426 as his initial response? Because of his #460 and the story he has to stick to that he didn't notice #447.
So I got the feeling he's scum. Saying #426. Only to confirm his "surprise" in #460.
But wait. After being confronted, he now says it was a test for me. His real answer is now #458.
First of all, I don't appreciate being tested when I am testing you. Or did you think I was asking you about posts just for fun?
Not to mention that your "test" actually proves nothing about me. You say you're 99% sure I'm town.
Why? Don't you think there was a reason behind me asking it? (no matter if I am town or scum)
If I have a reason, don't you think I would make sure to check the answer?
From you perspective, if you're town - why wouldn't I be scum trapping an innocent person?
Is that 99% another try to make you look more town? ("Look! I am so sure you're town. That should make you feel all warm and fuzzy.")

Problem #3 - Not voting for omnino

He stated he would have voted for omnino back then for something, for sure. But not today.
As part of his reason he says "omnino hasn't posted in 2 weeks".
Well, that wasn't the reason back then. Back then he has been gone only for 4 days.
And not to mention that this argument is funny since Akira was the one who got replaced.
It's interesting how omnino missing for 2 weeks lowers him down on his list, but Akira being replaced doesn't seem to matter much.

[Haylen]

Omnino is replaced by EarthIntruder affective immediately.

[EarthIntruder]

Hey, y'all! As Haylen her modliness has mentioned, I'm Omnino's replacement. Looks like this game's a little longer than I thought, which is fine, I should have plenty of time to read through it and post some analysis by tonight. For now I just wanted to let you know that I'm around.

[AurorusVox]

Hi EarthIntruder, have fun reading - and as I've said to all replacements, sorry that some of my posts were so long!

Oh, is Mastermind due a prod too? ._."

[Guybrush]

LOAKA\OMNINO INDIVIDUAL CASE

I Loaka

Absolutely nothing to conclude.
If he's town, I don't see potential difficulties for him to play in the sandbox with us.
If he's scum on the other hand, I see every reason to run off if you're paranoid that your every move will be dissected.
Although, there is a chance that this game wasn't what he expected\wanted, so he decided to leave, town or scum.

II omnino

-DAY 1-

ISO 1

- It appears he read the thread careful enough to notice Loaka, before he even checked his role.
...

Comment:

I found it a bit unusual to read the thread carefully without knowledge of your role. Possible lie.

(neutral)

ISO 3

- Added a new argument for zauper's case. FOSes him. Votes for Akira and waits for his response. Supports 2k3\Akira\Zauper lynch.

ISO 6

- Unvotes Akira. Wouldn't prefer his lynch anymore. He shows reluctance in voting zauper, since he'll be probably replaced.

ISO 7

- Votes for zauper, since he's tired and the deadline is getting close.
...

Comment:

His #6 and #7 don't add up. He seemed rational in his #6, but 2 days later acted out of frustration. Fishy.

(+1 scum)

ISO 9

- Explains his vote (pressure left + trap to quick-hammer).
...

Comment:

In theory this checks out. But in reality not. The only people he could have trapped ATM were seth and Aurorus. I have a feeling he was aiming for seth to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Pressure left really doesn't make sense in the context of missing zauper.

(+5 scum)

ISO 12

- ISOed Michel. Unvotes zauper. FOSes Michel.
...

Comment:

Some arguments were good, some were not. The time of that ISO and its length don't add up to his strong belief that lynchless day needs to be avoided. It seems he was going in opposite direction.

(+2 scum)

ISO 14

- He would support any lynch to avoid lynchless day. He doesn't believe that he can get Michel lynched. Mentioned Michel's English.
...

Comment:

Supporting ANY lynch is bad IMO. English mention was a cheap shot, like he was trying to downgrade his opinion.

(neutral)

ISO 16

- He says he suspects zauper more than seth. Doesn't vote.
...

Comment:

In #14 he seemed aware that his suspicion of Michel wasn't going to get us anywhere today. It was 4-2 for seth at that moment. If he felt that theperson was a better candidate, he should have voted then.

(+3 scum)

-DAY 2-

ISO 18

- One power role slip.

ISO 19

- Uses WIFOM to say that scum would have hammered. Plays along with Aurorus' logic and shifts his suspicion towards theperson.
...

Comment:

WIFOM defense is just weird. Playing along with Aurorus' logic seems unnatural for a townie to me. Townie knows that he's innocent, so he might be more reluctant to believe in Aurorus' logic. He happily joined, and steered him in theperson's direction.

(+1 scum)

ISO 21

- Gives FOS to theperson for avoiding something because of looking suspicious.
...

Comment:

He would have suspected seth if he had lynched after he L-1-ed zauper. He would probably then suspect theperson for doing the same to seth. But yet he takes it against him for realizing that and avoiding it. All players are aware of consequences of their actions, town or scum. And you can't take it against him if he didn't feel comfortable betting his life on his read.

(neutral)

ISO 22

- Finally realizes all the rules, and pleads ignorance.
...

Comment:

If he was noob, fine by me. But he isn't. And since he was a cop in his previous game, I would assume that such situation would force you to be more aware of all possibilities in the game. I think it might have been a real scum-slip.

(+1 scum)

-DISAPPEARS-

CONCLUSION:

Omnino never really commented seth's actions in details, which I found a bit strange, since he was a hot topic.

(+1 scum)

As if he was just waiting for others to kill eachother, and he didn't want to have any part of it. Loaka\omnino slot have the lowest post count in this game, and I feel they haven't provided us with enough information to make a very strong case. However, omnino's behavior on both days seems scummy - his day 1 moves just don't make sense, and his day 2 revolves around that slip which coming from a SE seems unusual. If this slot is scum, Loaka's record for the least talkative person here would make sense.

I believe Loaka\omnino\Earth are scum.

I will not vote for him before Earth (or anyone else) has the chance to respond. And because I'm waiting for Hindu to respond as well. There is not much time though, so I advise you to respond as soon as you can.

[Guybrush]

Oh yeah. And one more thing. To somewhat conclude.

I think

omnino\Loaka + Hindu\Bazz

pair is the winner.
- They are both part of my top 3 suspects by elimination.
- They both seem scummy enough individually (omnino and Hindu).
- And they both (all 4) fit in my pair table. (interactions are almost non-existent; I'll go back to see if I missed some)

My future actions

- Waiting for "their" defenses
- Will check Bazz as well and try to keep it to a minimum when I post
- Will check Akira in more details only if I'll have enough time. I partially checked him in #508 and didn't find him that suspicious.
- Will post pairs
- I don't think it would be beneficial to continue defending myself in mastermind's case. If you really think it is necessary to discuss it now, let me know. No one seemed to agree with you, and you lost your focus (#490) which made me doubt if you even suspect me (now or before). We can continue on day 3 if we're both alive then. Or now if you insist.

[EarthIntruder]

Guhhh. This re-read is taking a lot longer than I thought it would. Sorry I couldn't keep my promise, but I swear I'll have some analysis up soon.

[Hinduragi]

AV:

What do you make of the possibility that he is a newbie scum? How does that factor into your read?

He wouldn't ever say "I feel like you're looking for me to claim" as newbie scum.

It was a distraction.

It was an ironic term I used since it was inconvenient for myself.

GB:
Problem 1-
1. Yeah, like I said it was to show what my reads were at that point in my re-read and to give out my opinion on things.
2. Well, I guess it can be intended as a psychology trick. I was just giving out my opinion, though.
3. I do have an aggressive playstyle but it's kinda hard to use it when none of your suspects are active in the game.

Problem 2-
I didn't go 1 page in the past. I ISO'd Akira since I just placed my vote on him to confirm my read. His last post was "Well, it's time to go" and I had missed his "I'm leaving in 36 hours" thing. As for testing you, yes. From an analysis of your playstyle in this game so far, if you were scum, you wouldn't have bothered checking. If you were scum, why would you ask me about something that would pertain to 2k3's "Lame" theory? To side with him, since you outed him as newb town? What sort of scum does that? I have only one type in mind: An idiot. And all your cases thus far prove this. And no, it's not AtE; It's my read.

Problem 3-
I found Akira's willingness to switch out of nowhere(After hesitation) and the question he asked seth(Do you 100% deny that you have acted scummy) scummy. Also, one of his reasons for voting seth over theperson didn't sit well with me.

If theperson was scum, he would have almost definitely voted after providing those good reasons to suspect seth.

I'm willing to believe it could go either way but scum would be more likely to not hammer for the simple fact they don't like the wifom and attention it brings upon them. Using this as a reason to switch from your top suspect throughout a good portion of the game looked like some more fluff. After seeing the above from Akira, I liked my vote being on him much more so than on omnino.

[Guybrush]

@Hinduragi

1. Yes. All your explanations seem possible (I was expecting similar answers). But you didn't comment on the "coincidence" that I found 3 instances which can be interpreted as psychology tricks in a single post. Maybe I expected a bit more creative summation from a guy who's interested in psychology, to persuade me why my "trick" argument can be dismissed. Would you like to? Or does coincidence cover it?

2. OK. I still find it a bit weird, but we can't really go further than this about Akira's reread. As far as you seeing my argument\trap as me siding with 2003, that's again very inaccurate. I asked you about which post you read in #496 and was thinking 3 moves ahead. 2003 introduced "lame" argument in #497 (one post after). That argument BTW I don't agree with. I see every reason for town to say "Lame" after realizing his top suspect is being replaced. I however have a different concern - that you were faking the whole "I don't know Akira is getting replaced" thing. So since you provided me with an answer that is wrong (check #496 vs #497), then I still have difficulties to believe you that you would be able to be 99% sure I'm town from that. AtE still explains it.

3. You're going back to the argument of yours I wasn't commenting. I can give you your right to believe that Akira is scummier than omnino. But in #500 you used the wrong argument to say why you voted for Akira and not omnino. You said he hasn't posted in 2 weeks. That wasn't the case THEN. What's up with that? Why didn't you comment that but focused on another argument I wasn't asking you about?

4. [NEW] What do you think of my omnino case in #516? I hope you're not turned off by it since I think you're scum buddies?

5. [NEW] I'm glad to see someone share my view on 2003 though. Have you ever ISO'd him? If you did, when?

[AurorusVox]

GB

: I'll let Hindu answer your question about the Omnino case, but I have something I'd like to add afterwards.

I will say, if there was a Hindu/Omnino scumteam, Hindu's lack of voting for Omnino would make more sense. However, I still am very uncomfortable with Mastermind's behaviour, so I'm going to ISO the same three people and see if there are any potential Akira or Mastermind pairings. My initial reaction to the trio is that there

could

be a bussing Mastermind-Hindu team (Hindu votes early as his buddy gets replaced, possibly allowing him to revoke it at a later point; Mastermind makes a weak case with no bite (or vote) in it against Hindu and then dodges questions about the validity of the case), but I want to consider the Omnino-angle too.

---

Hindu:

1) Fair enough. To insinuate that he'd have to claim, in full knowledge that he wouldn't have to, would be something for experienced scum to do when playing the newbie card (a very tough pill to swallow).

2) Okay; so you don't feel it was pertinent to question whether GB was ever honestly trying to suggest the +10/-10 strategy? In that case, what do you make of him asking this very same question of you? I'm not very convinced by your rebuttal, especially considering that GB has pointed out that his question came

before

the "lame" argument.

3) I see. At first I thought the "convenient" referred to "convenient for Omnino." But what do you actually make of 2k3's "lame" case? You've so far failed to express your thoughts on it at all. In a way, this is worse than mastermind's avoidance of questions because you've posted plenty since 2k3 first made the point.

---

I also quite like more detail from

theperson

now that he said he's come back. I don't really appreciate the fact that he was

aware

that he was taking "the lazy way out", though I can't draw any conclusions from this fact alone. In any case, I'd like to hear more about this argument that he was building against Omnino, especially now that GB has made a case against him too.

---

2k3

, since you said that you "still" were suspicious of Omnino due to gut feelings in your #501, have you ISO'd or re-read Omnino in order to clarify your gut-feeling?

[2003041]

@AV: I've been doing job applications the last two days, but I'll try and get a re-read on what I think by tomorrow.

[2003041]

EBWOP: That was quicker than I thought. Right now, my gut still has him as scum, but he's second on my list to Hindu. The thing that stands out to me is the arguments with MS on Day 1 followed by the NK. I think omnino would have the most to gain from getting MS out of the game early, but I am only about 40% sure on this.

[Guybrush]

@Aurorus

Yes, please sum up the case on Akira\mastermind.
I kinda ruled Akira out because his switch seemed fine. (only 2 mild suspicions)
Mastermind might be town because he went after me. I think scum with bad logic would have picked an easy target. (hunch, nothing solid.)
Omnino looks REALLY suspicious to me just by himself.
And Hindu's defense doesn't look well. (he should have taken different approach in point 1 IMO, and he handled point 2 and 3 badly)
I'll finish Bazz's read in the meantime.

@Everyone

Please, don't try to play dumb in the next 2 days.
We all know the deadline:

Tuesday 24th August 9pm GMT+1 time

So I hope everyone understands that your attendance is required.
We still have only 1 vote. And things need to happen fast, so be prepared.
I'm most likely voting for omnino. I'd like to discuss it first.
I think Hindu is his pair.
I could vote for Akira to avoid a lynchless day, but I'd like to hear a case on him first.
I could rethink theperson case, but someone else has to do it. Zauper wasn't scummy. His partner would be Akira\Aurorus. Probably neither.
I wouldn't vote for 2003 or Aurorus.