Mini 1026 - Ohne Mafia (Game Over!)

[moose200x]

Moose- This is my first normal in which i have no idea what is going on. Now what do i do? I look for scummy things and call them out. I do not sit back and let others make my case for me. Please read and post your reads on everybody, at least.

Wraith- Why do i think FEMM needs to die? He has been quite scummy in his 8 posts. For example:

Vote: NicolBolas

I know you defended the flip-flopping opinion of boberz, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

He voted me and tried to blame the accusations of flip- flopping on boberz. Shifting blame.

I really want him to come in and give me more content.

K, I'll post a quick write up when I get off work.

[archaebob]

@ some important advice for everyone -

In general, do NOT post full town rankings of your suspicions, or declare your town reads. I know I violated this rule a little while ago, but I did that because I had primarily negative things to say, and I really felt the town needed some direction. Most of the time, town lists just help the scum figure out who to NK (I know this from experience playing scum; when everyone in the town is saying "I think this person is town", it makes the kill choice obvious). My recommendation is to only ever talk about your top three suspects. This way the scum can only work with who is NOT being suspected; there's no way for them to distinguish between null reads and strong town reads.

Some of you are going to say that the information from town lists is more important than not helping the scum pick their kill. While I understand this sentiment (and used to share it myself), the truth is the info from town lists is really outweighed by how much they help scum. Town lists are gold gifts of information for the mafia, very much like early claims. So don't do it, unless you want to say goodbye to your protown players as soon as possible. Focus on your scum suspects and get them lynched. Talking about players who you are not your focus only gives the scum a clearer map of where they can slip through the cracks. Also, focusing on only a few people at a time limits the amount of confusion and noise that will come with the inevitable omgus, AtE, and personality clashing that always happens with everyone pointing fingers at everyone. An organized and focused town that doesn't have a million conversations going at once is the hardest environment for scum to survive in.

[Hrezs]

To add something I forgot to include: Hrescz is going after easy targets. He made a retroactive case against me using the later posts of other people, and is now going after boberz for no real reason.

Actually, I voted you because I wanted to see your reaction, but I wasn't going to just say that. You failed miserably. Happy with a Wraith lynch.

[Hrezs]

Archae- You can stop with your "I'm here to teach everyone" attitude, it'd be much appreciated

[caelum]

Vote: Furcolow

I do think that you're a VI, but I'm not prepared to let you off the hook as some others have done simply because you play scummily.

my fos wasn't serious because it was page 1. Do you believe you can catch scum on page 1? Typically people who FoS and vote someone like I did will be aligned with the person they FoSed in the first place, correct? Isn't that a standard JEEP tell?

Your reasoning for your vote on Bober is the exact same as your reasoning for your FoS on Bober on D1. You were willing to bring Bober to L - 1 and have him claim on page 3 for a non serious reason. Earlier, you said that you were satisfied with Bober's defense and that the main reason why you had your vote on Bober was because of that same non serious reason. Please point out where in Bober's defense that he once mentioned why he was lurking on the forums. Actually, please tell me how lurking on the forums is a scumtell. I lurk if I just want to get a quick read and don't have time to post.

Caelum has done no scumhunting, but made a massive post pretending to, the nearest he got was lurker hunting moose, worth doing but no actual info has been found. Not very good, need more.

Funny. Your reasoning on Moose:

Moose, instigated political talk, and is very guilty in not letting it drop earlier. Very very lurky. Hung onto the coattails of abob's accusation of me. The flip flop that admittedly wasnt a flip flop was the only content he has posted, now this I feel has been undermined content is needed Now. Actually quite scummy for the lack of content but will to talk about rubbish vote moose

Ignoring the fact that your first sentence doesn't really make sense, sounds a lot like my 'lack of real scumhunting and real info':

Very very lurky. Actually quite scummy for the lack of content but will to talk about rubbish vote moose

Can you explain the lack of real material in your posts over the last 3 or 4 pages?

Hung onto the coattails of abob's accusation of me.

Why would you "100%" agree with Archaebob in his argument and then not back up your words with a vote?

The flip flop that admittedly wasnt a flip flop was the only content he has posted, now this I feel has been undermined content is needed Now

I don't see the point to these questions. You admitted that you didn't read his explanation, and then since you didn't focus on his explanation I assume that you were satisfied by it as well. How does his behavior when it comes to BW's affect his alignment at all?

He 'flip-flopped' once and for good reason, looks like you're either subtly trying to make something innocuous seem scummy or defend your lack of attention to his previous post. Don't try to defend it by saying that you were looking for more information, because I fail to see how his BW patterns will affect your read on him.

Let's not nitpick. The point is, it's strange that you call me out for pretending to scumhunt and not providing anything new when only

after

my post did you FoS moose at all, with reasoning on similar subjects.

K, I'll post a quick write up when I get off work.

Hope you'll answer my questions in Page 6 as well.

Sidenote: I'm confused over the Hresz/Wraith issue. It sounds like Hresz just voted Wraith for active lurking and then Wraith defended himself with outside reasons and then voted Hresz for voting Bober. Is that about right or can someone explain to me simply.

[Wraith]

Hrescz voted me for active lurking to get a reaction out of me, which he did and apparently views it as a very scummy reaction. I voted Hrescz for making very scummy votes without a case to back it up.

[Wraith]

EBWOP: vote and accusations (he's made one vote)

[Hrezs]

The only person you've given an opinion on was me, the person who attacked you. Pretty scummy

[caelum]

FEMM doesn't give a whole lot of material, but his pressing the so-called NB "flip-flop" issue is unsettling. I've already given my opinion on that.

I'm satisfied by Furcolow's explanation of his flip-flop on boberz (I only skimmed through that). On his supposed "rolefishing," IMO claiming is a good way to slip up scum (by getting a possible counterclaim against them) or to prevent a mislynch of a PR. So asking for a claim is a null-tell to me. However, his last vote on NB reeks of OMGUS. Even though he redacted it, it puts me in the mindset of just finding an excuse to put a vote down.

I'm satisfied with boberz's defenses and scumhunting. I don't suspect him at the moment.

NB's scumhunting is commendable, and he has certainly turned around the attitude toward him since page 2. Right now he and AB are my top two pro-town suspects, although I'n not really sure where NB gets his "FEMM needs to die" attitude from only 8 posts.

Alarm bells are going off in my head right now when I read Hresz's posts. His primary scumdar alerts early on were of "nervousness," when anything can be interpreted as "nervousness" (this paragraph can be interpreted as "nervousness" on my part by a scumbag). He suddenly put down a vote on me with absolutely no reasoning, then took AB's opinions against me as his own case against me when "active lurking," which I've just explained, is no basis alone for a lynch on somebody. Perhaps if that lurker has actively been anti-town in the posts he made, that could be a good basis. But I'm not making stupid votes or accusations. At the moment he is going after boberz while keeping his vote on me, and boberz is at the moment a solid player. I see no reason to suspect him at this time.

Vote: Hrescz

Wouldn't call that giving an opinion soley on you.

[moose200x]

Blah. The lot of you are pretty freakin' scummy but I'll focus on the people who I feel are the scummiest.

Moose:

Archaebob- You are 100% right in your argument. There was nothing you said I disagreed with in regards to boberz.

Why would you "100%" agree with Archaebob in his argument and then not back up your words with a vote?

Do you tend to flip flop alot? Are always looking to join a bandwagon?

I don't see the point to these questions. You admitted that you didn't read his explanation, and then since you didn't focus on his explanation I assume that you were satisfied by it as well. How does his behavior when it comes to BW's affect his alignment at all?

He 'flip-flopped' once and for good reason, looks like you're either subtly trying to make something innocuous seem scummy or defend your lack of attention to his previous post. Don't try to defend it by saying that you were looking for more information, because I fail to see how his BW patterns will affect your read on him.

So, I am totally lost now. Going to work, be back later guys

What call is there for confusion? I didn't see anything that confused me [excluding Bober's WIFOM defense], what confused you?

Moose's last 5 posts

You think I am awesome. You also think I am very cool.
I'd guess for realz you think very little of me.

What does "Most fallacious tell ever." mean? I feel dumb right now.

Want a claim = Tell me your role = Fishing of roles = Rolefishing

Yeah no political talk. Jesus isn't real. LOL

So it's all war, jesus and guns for you eh? Meh, no political talk. LOL.
So, I am totally lost now. Going to work, be back later guys

Can you explain the lack of real material in your posts over the last 3 or 4 pages?

OK, awesome post, this will give me a chance to explain my epic failness for the town.

First off, let me explain my game plan since I have failed to utilize it correctly this game. Anger and Annoy. I like to chat alot, post stupid comments, start arguments, side with people then vote some other way completely, I buddied with people, I am very rude to females (or overly nice to them) this pisses people off. It also assures 3 things. A) I am always in the heat of the moment, controlling the game. B) I dont get night killed. and C) I am involved in serveral bandwagons, for or against. It helps me learn.

Now, this game. Lack of knowing who is what or how many or even the basic setup makes me feel weak and scared. I guess I feel like I am letting my team down and it makes me sad.

For the questions you asked: Here are some answer...

I don't like early lynches so when I said I agreedd with archaebob but not voted for the other bob becuase It either was L-1/2 or I felt the wagon was starting. Can't remember for sure and i am not going to reread while i answer so that i may give better honest answers.

Flip-Flop question was to annoy.

Reason I feel confused and lost I answered above. I cannot get a feel for any of you guys

As for my lack of material, like i said, I just don't know where to attack at. I am trying guys, please understand. I am not good at this game, my skills come from getting people to talk and converse and so on, but this game i'm just not me

I don't know.

[moose200x]

Ok, I think my scum list would be:

1.Wraith - if it's true that he is lurking and only came to topic once he was voted is very scummy imo.

2. The dandelion bob or Herz, maybe he is trying to attack what he views is a weaker (easy cuz afk) person to start a bandwagon.

FoS Wraith, will vote in 2 mins, gotta see how many on the wagon.

[moose200x]

VOTE Wraith

[moose200x]

UNVOTE

VOTE WRAITH

[Hrezs]

Wouldn't call that giving an opinion soley on you.

I would, because he just went, "Eh, ok" and listed 4 names.

[Furcolow]

if mafia was a vote for president i would win everytime

[Furcolow]

I am going to put the names in this game through a random name generator to pick my lynch target

[Furcolow]

There were 11 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

1. Tasky
2. caelum
3. moose200x
4. foilist13
5. a2rudeboy
6. Wraith
7. boberz
8. NicolBolas
9. Hrezs
10. archaebob
11. FEMM the Attorney

Timestamp: 2010-08-19 03:17:01 UTC

unvote
Vote: Tasky

[FEMM the Attorney]

Okay, first of all

Unvote

.
NicolBolas, I didn't like the reasoning you gave before on the flip-flop, but I've read everything through again and I do think that it was just a changing of opinions after seeing Abob's case on boberz. It did bring up good points, but it was still odd how quickly you're opinion changed. You've since said and clarified that you change your vote to who is scummiest at that time.
Now, I beleive you misunderstood my post saying "I did not like you're flip-flopping opinion of boberz" because then you wen't on to say I was shifting blame onto boberz. That was not at all what I meant on that. I was reffering to your suspicion on boberz, then stating "I like your answer" in reply to boberz's defense, then seeing Abob's case and placing a vote on the person you just liked the defense of. (Which, like stated above, was fishy at that moment but you have since clarified that Abob's case was well-built and was boberz-vote-worthy). So I don't know where you came up with that.
I am really not liking Furclow right now. Everyone has already brought up many, maaany, good points on him, but the things in particular that are sticking out to me is the fact he was accusing Nicol of having a vote on him... When clearly he didn't because he was on my case at that moment. That's really odd. Furclow, are you reading what's going on? I don't understand how you could confuse a vote like that.
And I would vote you now but I can't seem to find the recent vote count.

[FEMM the Attorney]

@Furcolow: ... Wat. You're just going to randomly aim for a lynch on a random person???
That isn't very pro-town.

[archaebob]

There were 11 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

1. Tasky
2. caelum
3. moose200x
4. foilist13
5. a2rudeboy
6. Wraith
7. boberz
8. NicolBolas
9. Hrezs
10. archaebob
11. FEMM the Attorney

Timestamp: 2010-08-19 03:17:01 UTC

unvote
Vote: Tasky

Pathetic.

In all honesty, please just replace out of this game, and stop playing mafia on this site until you graduate from middle-school. Your critical thinking skills and emotional maturity simply aren't conducive to you or anyone else enjoying the games you play in. You badly hamper your team's chance of success, almost deliberately it seems, and I seriously have no clue why you are still playing this game at all.

@ mod: can you forcibly replace Furcolow on the grounds that he is no longer playing to his win condition? This kind of thing seriously ruins the fun of this game.

[archaebob]

@ Hrez -

I'm playing to my win condition. There are things I know about how this game works that you don't, simply because I've been around longer. I'm giving my opinion on a theory point here in the nicest way I can because I think at least some players will see the logic of what I'm saying and change their play accordingly. This well help town.

So the fact that your ego is hurt isn't really all that relevant to me.

[archaebob]

@ mod: we also need a prod for a2rudeboy

[Hrezs]

my ego isn't hurt, its just annoying

[Furcolow]

Archaebob is hurt because he dislikes plans in which he can't steer the town's lynch to mislynch a townie based on policy. For trying to force someone to play the way he wants, which is more stifling of discussion than any idea i've had so far, I am going to vote him. My posting of an RNL was a ploy to see who would be completely against it. Someone commenting like "isn't that anti-town?" appears as town/null in my opinion. Someone opposing it completely in favor of an informed lynch implies that they have information. Archaebob, I would also like you to defend why you are so against a random lynch whatsoever, when a random lynch is better than a no lynch for the town afaiac.

[boberz]

@abob, ood advice, I tried to disguise the order of my reads in my list on everyone.I made that list by way of making me focus on others.

@all, my recommendation, we leave fur to a vig if we have one (not a fish so nobody show any hints in reaction to this warning!!!) and if not he will have exposed himself in a few days Iam sure. But Fur always does this.

@Caelum, mm what you did on moose is what I called lurker hunting, I found the same points on an iso of moose, but I did other things as well. So that is kind of what I meant. iso yourself and you will see what I mean I think. The best defence is just to change it.

@NB whey is just an exclamation that means very little but I suppose it means kind of 'see this' or something like that.

@Hrezs, your one line posts,whilst easy to read are not actually inputing any info for town. We need actual scumhunting.


@all, my posts are often in note form, stemming from uni, lack of energy and the fact I often write in notepad first. This I think is making me look like a foreigner. It is not just sheer laziness on my part.