Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Thian]

@star: Yeah, I looked back, and my reads really are mostly gut. I was expecting to find a wealth of info against Hindu, but I found virtually nothing. Kind of disappointing. Nothing much on others either, so I'm gonna stay with my gut for now.

The walls of text still need to subside, and the activity level needs to go up. I bet no one even realized I was on V/LA. We need more frequent, shorter posts.

so you want more activity but less talking? this is what I read when you stated

The Walls of text need to subside and the activity levels need to go up. Is that contradictory?

[Thian]

less talking, walls of text or otherwise, to me means less activity. Less talking means less information and less information means less questions and opinions going around and that is bad for town.

Also by telling someone how you wish they post is not right at all. If someone prefers to pick apart things, then that is their style. To me it seems by discouraging people to pick apart stuff means you don't want them picking apart your posts. Thats a bit scummy.

[Kirbyoshi]

Thian, the Walls of Text are extremely hard to read, and dominate the thread. Since I want to hear more from people like you (Thian), Brod, steppen, etc., I don't want WoT's by people like Myst and Leech to make you more delayed in posting.

[Hinduragi]

Hinduragi, do you find it is tunneling? or would you say that the debate between Leech and Mysterio has taken the spot light since there are a few people who have not posted much.

No, I don't find it is tunneling nor do I find that debate took the spotlight. I found that the entire debacle did result to be a hindrance to scumhunting, though. I did my best with what I had during that debate by questioning others. That question you're mentioning was worded bluntly and ignorantly by intention.

I don't get it, Kirby. If they're your gut reads, that's hardly going to get discussion going, man. You've gotta give some type of opinion as to what your thoughts are so far. Ok, what are your thoughts on star? Don't even give me that gut read stuff. He made 2 posts as to the actual game prior to your post.

Oh, and now that I think about it

Mod: Steppen needs a prod too.

I didn't see that he had last posted when Illume did before.

[Kirbyoshi]

Forgive me for answering a question, with a question, but why did you ask about star in particular?

[Thian]

Hinduragi: You stated that you did not find it tunnelling after leech stated he wasn't. That feels like you are copying a response to Leech, if you felt the same as leech why did you even ask that question? Certainly you must have felt he was tunneling if you asked that question.

Also, if he wasn't tunneling as you had stated, you must certainly have to agree that the questioning / debate did take spot light which in result of it taking spot light put a hinderance on scum hunting.

What was your intention of the question posed to Leech?

[Hinduragi]

Star had made 2 posts about the discussion so far. In those, he was giving his opinions on game-related mechanics. I didn't think this could even give me a gut read.

No, Thian. Sometimes you want to see how they'd respond. I would explain how I analyze the responses here but I think it's better to do so in post-game. Letting scum know what I'm thinking when I scumhunt isn't going to get me anywhere. There's alot more to questions I ask than just the questions themselves.

It didn't take a spot light for me, really. Asides from Myst voting Leech and a few other points that could have been condensed alot, yes, it was a hindrance in that it garnered attention and was very lengthy. I'm not sure what you mean by spot light but if you mean it derailed the town in a way, yeah, it did.

[Trachimbrod]

In the forum where I spectated mafia before joining a game here, I've never seen such adverse reactions to WoTs.

What would you like to hear about, Kirby? I've been posting quite a bit, though my more recent posts have been WoT.

[Kirbyoshi]

Well, do you think we're far enough into the game that voting on gut shouldn't happen?

[Trachimbrod]

I don't know what mafia game theory says, but yeah, we're out of RVS. I thought gut voting only happened then, and now that we've got some analysis going on, you should be able to rationally explain your votes.

[Kirbyoshi]

I agree that we are out of RVS, but do you think

enough

analysis has been going on to thoroughly explain every vote without sounding stupid or scummy? Think about it before you answer.

[Trachimbrod]

I do think before I post. Perhaps there's not enough to thoroughly explain every vote, but there should be something besides gut now. I'm pretty sure everyone else who's voting has provided some reasoning.
(If Illume ever comes back, he's promised us some explanation)

Could you explain your voting style, if you have one?

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you didn't think before you post, I was just making sure that you didn't post something like "lol yes, we're on page 6".

I'm not really sure I have a pinpoint-able voting style. I generally don't like not having my vote on anyone, and I try to provide reasoning when I think it's there. I think I also piggyback more than the average player should, which is something I'm working on.

[Kirbyoshi]

Where is Illume?
Where is steppen?

I just realized that the person with the most posts in the thread isn't Leech or Myst. It's Thian.

@Thian: Who are your top 3 scum reads?

[Leech]

Thian, the Walls of Text are extremely hard to read, and dominate the thread. Since I want to hear more from people like you (Thian), Brod, steppen, etc., I don't want WoT's by people like Myst and Leech to make you more delayed in posting.

While I agree with the fact that I don't want WoT's to prevent others from being delayed in posting, I do not like the general consensus that they "accomplished nothing". I think a lot of valuable information was presented in the WoT's when you look at the questions asked, and the reactions to them. At the end I had pressured Mysterio and he was clearly misrepping me, appealing to emotion, and trying to brush off my points without actually responding. Several of those are classic scum tells. So, even though they may be extremely hard to read, I definitely encourage people to do so.

[Mysterio]

The mod has been MIA longer than Illume and steppen. Perhaps that's why this game is moving so slow. No mod around to prod anyone. Come back to us, hohum!

[Trachimbrod]

I find myself skimming WoTs a little, but they do have content. It's a little frustrating that people seem to be ignoring them.

Mysterio, any intention to answer my 114? I miss the mod too, but commenting about it doesn't really help.

Kirby: If I understand correctly, you like having a vote on someone at all times, even when you can't provide a reason. What do you think is the benefit of this?

[Leech]

The mod has been MIA longer than Illume and steppen. Perhaps that's why this game is moving so slow. No mod around to prod anyone. Come back to us, hohum!

Ironically your previous post was 4 days ago. If the mod was here, you would have been replaced. I also note that you choose to pop in and say, absolutely nothing. Active lurking isn't going to help your case.

[hohum]

I apologize for disappearing. A round of prods and a votecount is coming today.

[Hinduragi]

^I'm still here btw, hohum. Waiting for answers to my questions from some inactive people. I'm also lol'ing at Mysterio and that pro active lurking.

[startransmission]

Star

-
Why are you paying attention to Kirby? What do you think of Steppen?

Getting to this tonight. I'm only in two games and I'm falling behind in both.

[Mysterio]

To be honest, I actually completely forgot about this game. The other mini's I'm in were much more lively, so I ended up focusing on them. I'll try to be more active here. Reading back now to see what I missed, if anything.

[Mysterio]

Alright, having read through what I missed, I see a lot of repeats. So, I'll be doing a bit of a drive-by on the repeat arguments.

The first quote was him saying you didn't have sufficient quotes backing your arguement.(You can link posts by right clicking the post number instead of quoting the entire thing btw) The second was more or less about you being a hypocrite in your points. The third was you misrepp'ing him. You should reread the post where I took those excerpts from. You're largely ignoring the entirety of my argument while defending yourself.

Firstly, it's not actually your argument. This is just something you're piggy-backing off of. Second, I've already responded to these points. Go back and read my full replies to Leech where I quote exactly what I'm accusing him of doing. I didn't type up those WoT's in response to Leech just to have to type them up again. Post's #79 and #87 are the posts you should refer to. Notice that I quote him and then argue how that particular quote is scummy.

@trachimbrod Your response doesn't add anything new, nor does it give me any reason to expound on my own response. Your point about investigating weak leads was a misrepresentation of my point, hence why I simply clarified. I'll say again, my point was to show that muddling up a game by pursuing weak leads on someone takes time and energy away from properly analyzing the other players, which hampers scumhunting. Yes, as I stated, information is limited at the beginning, which is why it becomes important to gather as much information as possible. Look at the result of Leech and I going back and forth? It slowed the game down to a crawl and essentially allowed a number of players to fly under the radar. This is not helpful to town.

As for me repeating that I was backing off Leech, I'll answer that in response to Thian:

So Mysterio, I am going to ask you, was your second time stating you were backing off a response to Leech's post after my question?

My post was a response to you. Leech just happened to post before me. Also, this seems very weak. People repeat things for various reasons. Perhaps to expound on that point, or to simply remind themselves of a point. Perhaps to make sure others see it (my reason), or to make sure their point was understood by others. I really can't understand why this is being harped on.

@Leech (Post #116) I think it's the other way around. You're stretching that comment far beyond it's fairly obvious meaning. Which is this: I think you're scum, you claim you're not. As such, my reasoning behind you being scum isn't something you would readily admit to. In other words, I don't expect a post from you admitting that your scum and we should go ahead and lynch you. And I now feel dumber for having to explain this. As for the rest of your post, I would refer you to the posts I cited for Hinduragi. Perhaps you should read them over again as they were meant to be read, rather than quoting parts of them as you went along. I also think it's time we stepped aside from the back and forth, as I'm interested in reading the other players. Plus, I think it would benefit this game greatly.

[Thian]

post 26 Mysterio votes Hinduragi to pressure a defense from leeches suspicions.
Mysterio, why would you pressure Hinduragi with a vote to get him to
respond to Leech? Do you firmly believe that Hinduragi would not
have defended himself on his own accord? Did Hinduragi truly need
that vote for that specific reason?

Mysterio: Post 37, was it necessary to explain yourself here? I don't
think anyone was going to accuse you of dodging, and you are believing
that the game would have been stalled if you didn't confirm, but no where
does it state that all must confirm. So why were you worried about this?

Mysterio Post 52: "As of now, I really have nothing of substance to continue
my FoS on leech, but that can certainly change if leech posts something
that falls in line with my previous suspicions. Why did you feel the need
to warn/threaten leech with that statement?

Mysterio Post 55: "My goal is to find scum" any reason to announce that
to the world?

Mysterio Post 57: "or better yet using it as an opportunity to cast suspicion back on me and
possibly getting a townie lynched"
Why would you use the word possibly? You either are, or you are not townie, it feels
like you are AtE here but what makes it weird is the use of the word possibly during an AtE,
instead of asserting to the fact you are townie.

Steppenwolf: I asked you a question in post 112: you stated you found leech to purposely be contrairian what
makes you feel this way? where was he contrairy?

Steppenwolf: Hinduragi asked you a question on who you found scummiest, not who you found to not be scum. You
then danced out of his direct question. Town shouldn't be afraid to state their opinion.


Trachimbrod: what are your hesitations about bang wagons?

Leech I know I'm going back a bit on your theory for Incognito's first post
scum theory, but can you link me to it or direct me to it please?

Leech Do you really believe in town lynches providing more
information than Scum Lynches?

To KirbYoshi:
Top 3:
1. Mysterio for the AtE's, and all of what has been questioned on him so far.
2. Illume ((theory after this))
3. Steppenwolf ((theory below))

Now as for Illume, and this is just going based on my first game on MS and it is more based on
Gabricoelho.

Grabricoelho is a new user, no wiki and he looks like he joined July 27th from his profile.
I would naturally have to assume he has not played any other games on here. If he had gotten
a scum role, and was intimidated to have that role, he could have replaced out.

This happened in my first game, and although it isn't a definate sign when scum replaced out and they were new. I would have to guess that
if anyone would be nervous to play scum and retreat out of a game it would be a newbie scum.
Of course this is just a theory, and Illume I am sure can speak up at some point.

Mysterio being up at the top, I'm torn, really I am. His AtE's and everything that has come up
indeed makes me look his way right away, but the problem with it is. We have had Leech and Mysterio
both take a dominant debate, it might be two reactive townies trying to explain themselves to each other
as Steppenwolf had suggestion.

What I find funny is because the mod has not been around, if everyone who is posting currently is town and no
prods are made, it would be easy for scum to step back and let the town argue while they are not prodded to
join in discussion.

If that is the case Illume is right in that spot light his last post and only second post in the game
is for mysterio. An easy jump for someone to just get onto that arguement
without taking much time to look into other things.

Also Steppenwolf's last post was on 3rd of august. He appeases two people who are arguing Mysterio and Leech by
stating they are probably not scum and then danced out of Hinduragi's question of who he found scummy.

Personally I don't like listing my top list of scum reads, but if the question is asked, I'm going to answer it.
Townies should be answering questions posed to them and Steppenwolf did not in that instance.

[Kirbyoshi]

@Brod's 141: Any given town member's only public weapon in this game is his vote. It's useless to not be voting.

I've come to the conclusion that Illume and Steppen have died irl. Sad day.