Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Thian]

/confirm

[Thian]

vote: Drowmage

that wink, something about it. dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnn *dramatic music inserted here*

Lets play.

FYI: I have played 1 game here on mafiascum. Our townie team lost, it was my first game. I am excited to get going into another game and give it another go here. I have not played many online games. other than this website. Have hosted on another website 4 installments. Played a handful of real life games with a few close friends and that is my experience.

I would like to hear other peoples experience.. thanks.

[Thian]

Vote: Mysterio

for being the first person to post in the thread.

I would like to hear other peoples experience.. thanks.

I suggest you click the "Wiki" link under each player's name. That's a good way to learn, at the very least, the on-site experience of other players here. I will honor your request, though. I've played 8 games on this site, and about 50 off of it.

If you are familiar to games elsewhere, and not here, I suggest that you read some games on this forum. This game is played pretty differently, here, than everywhere else I've ever played.

@Gabricoelho: If you have the time, I request that you get an avatar. It makes it easy to see who's posting what in games.

not everyone has a wiki though? or am I mistaken?

[Thian]

If they do, it may not be maintained either.

i went to check my own wiki and I don't have the information up.

[Thian]

just went to check others wiki too and they don't have experience up either.

[Thian]

One thing i do agree though is this website is very information intensive and very analytical. there are definately different forms of voting styles in different games, as well as mechanics specific to websites and particular groups of people. house rules and such.

sorry for the post after post.

[Thian]

I don't know what you mean since mine was updated when I confirmed in-thread.

Hinduragi: What do you not understand?

Don't mislynch anyone, though.

Hinduragi: This alone seems a bit off. It comes across to me as a way to make people feel unstable and second guessing themselves which can result in confusion and uncertainty.

[Thian]

Thian, why did you vote for someone that's not even in the game?

Note to self: Don't post when coming home after the bar.

[Thian]

I was gonna vote Mysterio for being first as well, but I don't want to pile on in RVS.

This just seems like you are following along with someones idea. Especially after Leech has explained the theory.

Also, telling people Don't mislynch, or as you put "Don't mess up" can put a bit of fear in people, make them stall, make them second guess if what they are doing is okay or not. It is okay to follow your theories and analysis, question who you want to and when you are confident put votes where you really feel they should go.

[Thian]

You will not see me change votes very often in this game. With the exception of the first vote of every game, I never change on a whim. I will change my vote when I think a person is scum, not because I find them to be suspicious.

Fair enough, but your first vote was clearly a "I have no one better to vote for" choice, whereas you actually have real suspicions about Hinduragi. It's a bit suspicious itself to keep a vote on anyone other than the person you find suspicious. It seems to me that simply muddles up the game even more. I'm really leaning toward the idea that you and Hinduragi are simply attempting to distance yourselves early, so that the rest of us will find it hard to believe that you are scum buddies.

When you state that the way Leech has provided to vote, does it really muddle it up all that much? Or is flipping your vote from one suspicious person to the next more to muddle things up?

[Thian]

Also, telling people Don't mislynch, or as you put "Don't mess up" can put a bit of fear in people, make them stall, make them second guess if what they are doing is okay or not.

While it certainly can have that effect, do you feel that is likely what he was doing?

It may not be what exactly he had intended of course. You never know how your words will affect someone. It could be looked at as if saying, during RVS do not mislynch, since he was talking about RVS stage during that little paragraph of explanation.

I have to question it because I am relating it my first game on here which gave scum a win. One had said, something along the lines of "don't vote yet, we can't mislynch" gave them a bit of a townie look to them and made me question the one person who did vote who turned out to be town at the end.

The only thing to do would be to question Hinduragi as to why he felt the need to write "Do not mislynch though"

[Thian]

I don't have a policy for my voting yet, I can see the merits of voting to pressure, but right now I don't think I'll vote for anyone until I'd want everyone to vote for that person too.

So you are saying you will wait around until a consensus is formed and then proceed to vote?

[Thian]

Mysterio: Post 30 you stated "I'm really leaning towards the idea that you and hinduragi are simply attempting to distance yourself early so that the rest of us will find it hard to believe that you are scum
buddies."

Why do you feel the need to match two people up already?
We still have not heard from all.

It can also look like you are blaming two innocent people for pairing to try to make them look guilty.

Now I do have a question to all.

Pairing two people together and finding scum as pairs

is it better to scum hunt that way?

or is it better to search for one scum first and then the other?

[Thian]

Just a passing thought, though: If you always vote for the first person to post in every game, how can I really make anything out of that? I assume you're going to follow Incognito's theory whether you're scum or town. So, just as Hinduragi can conveniently answer any questions with a terse "it was just a random vote," you too can brush aside any questions/criticism by saying "it's just Incognito's theory."

I am also going to point out though that Leech is using a theory a theory that has been tested and can spark conversation into whether or not that theory is a flawed theory or good theory. It produces two sides of the coin and allows people to take stances and sides based on someone elses hypothesis and numbers. It gets the game going a hell of a lot faster than
A Random Vote is simply that, random. "I vote so and so for using purple txt" "I vote someone for having no avy" It is a weaker way for people to take sides and find flaws in opinion and thought based on fluff rather than content or theory.

If I had to choose whether or not to analyze someone based on a theory that has been tested

or the fact that someone doesn't have an avatar. I would most likely go with a tested theory that can be debated.

[Thian]

Hinduragi: What do you not understand?

I didn't understand why you said the other players didn't have wikis since mine had just been updated.

That is fair, I just wanted to note, that not everyone does. I don't and I did look at just a few others to make sure I wasn't the only one who didn't.

The only thing to do would be to question Hinduragi as to why he felt the need to write "Do not mislynch though"

I think it's obvious. I didn't want a mislynch.

Okay, that is the reason why you wrote it, but why did you feel the need to write it?

[Thian]

It's modgamery, I'd guess that the mafia might get PMs first.

Well this is certainly interesting WIFOM

1. If the mod hands out PM's First for Mafia then this would be true.
2. If the mod hands out townie roles first, this would be false.
and you have to question if the host had handed out all the roles and then forgot to write "all roles have been handed out" or got delayed before posting, then Mysterio just happened to post before Hohum could get to posting up that note does that denote his guilt or innocence?

Speculation based on WIFOM of Mysterio's guilt is a bit suspect.

About the only thing you have confirmed to noticed and take a stance on is to question the fact that Mysterio had wrote he was backing off of Leech twice in quick succession, but the rest of your conversation seems to be full of "I guess, I am uncertain." I am not saying you are not entitled to feel this way but it would be nice to hear a bit more of your thoughts.

What are you basing your guilty read on Mysterio on, Trachimbrod?

[Thian]

Well this is certainly interesting WIFOM

1. If the mod hands out PM's First for Mafia then this would be true.
2. If the mod hands out townie roles first, this would be false.

This isn't WIFOM either. Wifom is circular logic based of "This isn't true, so this has to be, unless of course this is true, which means this has to be, so the other can't be" or in a game sense: "He'd do this, as this alignment, for this reason; so we think he'd be this alignment, for this reason."

Also, the topic of what time the mod sent PM's needs to stop. Trying to out-guess the mod is considered against the "spirit of the game" and has actually resulted in games getting restarted. Use the tools you have in the game, not the ones that are based around how the mod may have done things.

to point out the WIFOM - to me it came off as it being so. but maybe my idea of what exactly WIFOM is it is is wrong and that is my newbness coming into play so thanks for clearing that up. However, that will be enough from me on that subject.

[Thian]

EBWOP
The WIFOM was the quote that Trachimbrod brought up.

It's modgamery, I'd guess that the mafia might get PMs first.

but again I won't go after it to keep the game intact.

[Thian]

and FYI: started my wiki, I really don't know what I am doing with it, so if anyone can help or add a suggestion on what I am doing on that. It would be helpful.

[Thian]

but again I won't go after it to keep the game intact.

I think you should explain how it was WIFOM. I want to see what's going on in your head. Keeping the game intact involves discussing players' actions in the game and you were doing that earlier. Don't back down on it. It may not be WIFOM but explain it, please.

The reason I did not continue with it was becausee Leech's comment about second guessing a mod. it isn't right, and the current game I am hosting at another website people had done it to me to try to guess what peoples roles are. This is not fair to mod and I absolutely had to agree with it. so sorry for not continuing with pushing the subject.

I will briefly explain WHY I thought it was, but will not bother to entertain any further with that discussion after this post so we can move onto other things. You can tell me if I am wrong with my interpretation of WIFOM is but i don't want the debate to be brought up and used against the mod.

WIFOM to me means: someone brings up a situation with two possible outcomes but neither provable and you end up taking a risk to choose.. Case in point. mod handing out mafia roles first and mysterio posting.

to me it has some possible outcomes and neither can be prooved correct or incorrect.

1. the mod hands out mafia roles first thus making mysterio guilty.
2. the mod doesn't hand out mafia roles first. thus making mysterio wrongly accused.
3. the mod does not have an order of how roles are handed out. Again making the theory flawed.

that to me is WIFOM. the reason i clamed up on it was, really this is my second game on this website. Not all terminology I may have an exact understanding and Leech brought up a valid point not to second guess mods as I agree, it can ruin a game and give people an advantage or disadvantage.

Now, I will side with Leech at testing a theory out. Incognito had provided stats, Leech had stated he was testing a theory and there is nothing wrong with testing a theory to provide something to go on and get us out of RVS.

So there is some disappointment in not having a long enough RVS. mainly with startransmission.
Corret me if I am wrong transmission but that reason was due to the fact that scum do not vote RVS or have less random reason during RVS? I don't agree with that at all. Scum can certainly vote RVS for non arguable reasons. They can do so up until someone ((with any role)) starts asking questions about more meaningful things which spark a debate.

So for me to decide if RVS is useful? No. I do find it fun for sure, but it isn't concrete and you could probably use the voting patterns as some sort of platform, but everyone can fall on the fact like previously stated that it was RVS and thats a cop out.

So i am glad leech jumped us right into a theory based on something tested.

now my thoughts on players.

Leech I am tending to side with and i would like to test that incognito theory myself. Mysterio's reaction to it of course seems a bit off and my vote is leaning towards him.

Trachimbrod, you brought up the "I'm going to back off" senario. it should be looked into because of the reaction. i think that the reaction and feeling of needing to do it is really aweful but at the same time I can't help but feel the other side.

If someone was harping on another persons guilt like Leech and Mysterio were doing to each other, Mysterio backed down and said I'm backing off. to me that shows that leechs arguements on why Leech is innocent were strong enough to warrent Mysterio to step down. Then the continuation of questioning Mysterio's suspicion of Leech from other people, mysterio may have felt to say "ok ok, I had already stated im backing off"" as if to affirm that he isn't going to harp on that anymore and he gets the points that were being discussed.

this week has been busy with work I do not have much time off like I did at the beginning of the game. So please bare with me until I can get a few days off.

currently the uproar between Mysterio and Leech has given discussion as to debate the guilt or innocence of these two but it can also make scum hide in this confusion as well.

Steppen wolf you had stated you found Leech to purposely be contrairian what makes you feel this way?

illume: hopefully you are not too busy, that pinkyswear is lookin mighty lonely.

Not at all. I'm saying that I won't vote until I would want everyone to vote with me

I don't get it. So if you don't want people to vote with you, you won't vote. So, uhh, you're saying you won't bus as scum? Or did you mean you want to lead bandwagons?

hinduragi, are you claiming brod is scum when you say "So if you don't want people to vote with you, you wont vote. So, uhh, you're saying you won't bus as scum?" i may be overthinking that line but explain it please.

and you also asked why my vote is not on anyone. There are still many more people to question and about the only question that would come out of me voting would be "why do you vote so and so". Mysterio has given me enough reason to suspect him but the problem is, if Kirbyoshi is correct in feeling that Leech and Mysterio are nitpicking so much. They both are getting right into the analyzation of each others posts Kirbyoshi feels that it comes off as a town read. Then before I put my vote on someone right now, there needs to be other discussion with other people to be able to throw a confident vote on someone and unfortunately leech and mysterio have taken quite a bit of spotlight time for me to gauge others.

especially when there is a lot of complaint from everyone at how much txt is flying around instead of taking all of that txt and sifting through it. it is work but I am sure there is enough here for people to ask questions.

Thanks.

[Thian]

Thian: From what I gather, no one asked what Mysterio thought of Leech after he said he backed down the first time. Mysterio says that he interpreted your question about voting styles as questioning about his former suspicion of Leech..

hrm, yes, that is true. I needed to go re-read. Leech did address one point about Mysterio though after I had posed my question.

So Mysterio, I am going to ask you, was your second time stating you were backing off a response to Leech's post after my question?

[Thian]

Hinduragi, do you find it is tunneling? or would you say that the debate between Leech and Mysterio has taken the spot light since there are a few people who have not posted much.

[Thian]

@star: Yeah, I looked back, and my reads really are mostly gut. I was expecting to find a wealth of info against Hindu, but I found virtually nothing. Kind of disappointing. Nothing much on others either, so I'm gonna stay with my gut for now.

The walls of text still need to subside, and the activity level needs to go up. I bet no one even realized I was on V/LA. We need more frequent, shorter posts.

so you want more activity but less talking? this is what I read when you stated

The Walls of text need to subside and the activity levels need to go up. Is that contradictory?

[Thian]

less talking, walls of text or otherwise, to me means less activity. Less talking means less information and less information means less questions and opinions going around and that is bad for town.

Also by telling someone how you wish they post is not right at all. If someone prefers to pick apart things, then that is their style. To me it seems by discouraging people to pick apart stuff means you don't want them picking apart your posts. Thats a bit scummy.

[Thian]

Hinduragi: You stated that you did not find it tunnelling after leech stated he wasn't. That feels like you are copying a response to Leech, if you felt the same as leech why did you even ask that question? Certainly you must have felt he was tunneling if you asked that question.

Also, if he wasn't tunneling as you had stated, you must certainly have to agree that the questioning / debate did take spot light which in result of it taking spot light put a hinderance on scum hunting.

What was your intention of the question posed to Leech?

[Thian]

post 26 Mysterio votes Hinduragi to pressure a defense from leeches suspicions.
Mysterio, why would you pressure Hinduragi with a vote to get him to
respond to Leech? Do you firmly believe that Hinduragi would not
have defended himself on his own accord? Did Hinduragi truly need
that vote for that specific reason?

Mysterio: Post 37, was it necessary to explain yourself here? I don't
think anyone was going to accuse you of dodging, and you are believing
that the game would have been stalled if you didn't confirm, but no where
does it state that all must confirm. So why were you worried about this?

Mysterio Post 52: "As of now, I really have nothing of substance to continue
my FoS on leech, but that can certainly change if leech posts something
that falls in line with my previous suspicions. Why did you feel the need
to warn/threaten leech with that statement?

Mysterio Post 55: "My goal is to find scum" any reason to announce that
to the world?

Mysterio Post 57: "or better yet using it as an opportunity to cast suspicion back on me and
possibly getting a townie lynched"
Why would you use the word possibly? You either are, or you are not townie, it feels
like you are AtE here but what makes it weird is the use of the word possibly during an AtE,
instead of asserting to the fact you are townie.

Steppenwolf: I asked you a question in post 112: you stated you found leech to purposely be contrairian what
makes you feel this way? where was he contrairy?

Steppenwolf: Hinduragi asked you a question on who you found scummiest, not who you found to not be scum. You
then danced out of his direct question. Town shouldn't be afraid to state their opinion.


Trachimbrod: what are your hesitations about bang wagons?

Leech I know I'm going back a bit on your theory for Incognito's first post
scum theory, but can you link me to it or direct me to it please?

Leech Do you really believe in town lynches providing more
information than Scum Lynches?

To KirbYoshi:
Top 3:
1. Mysterio for the AtE's, and all of what has been questioned on him so far.
2. Illume ((theory after this))
3. Steppenwolf ((theory below))

Now as for Illume, and this is just going based on my first game on MS and it is more based on
Gabricoelho.

Grabricoelho is a new user, no wiki and he looks like he joined July 27th from his profile.
I would naturally have to assume he has not played any other games on here. If he had gotten
a scum role, and was intimidated to have that role, he could have replaced out.

This happened in my first game, and although it isn't a definate sign when scum replaced out and they were new. I would have to guess that
if anyone would be nervous to play scum and retreat out of a game it would be a newbie scum.
Of course this is just a theory, and Illume I am sure can speak up at some point.

Mysterio being up at the top, I'm torn, really I am. His AtE's and everything that has come up
indeed makes me look his way right away, but the problem with it is. We have had Leech and Mysterio
both take a dominant debate, it might be two reactive townies trying to explain themselves to each other
as Steppenwolf had suggestion.

What I find funny is because the mod has not been around, if everyone who is posting currently is town and no
prods are made, it would be easy for scum to step back and let the town argue while they are not prodded to
join in discussion.

If that is the case Illume is right in that spot light his last post and only second post in the game
is for mysterio. An easy jump for someone to just get onto that arguement
without taking much time to look into other things.

Also Steppenwolf's last post was on 3rd of august. He appeases two people who are arguing Mysterio and Leech by
stating they are probably not scum and then danced out of Hinduragi's question of who he found scummy.

Personally I don't like listing my top list of scum reads, but if the question is asked, I'm going to answer it.
Townies should be answering questions posed to them and Steppenwolf did not in that instance.

[Thian]

Trachimbrod, you stated you never played Mafia before, and that this is your first game on here? I am sure you have noticed how newbies are often referred to the wiki, did you check it out?

[Thian]

Well, I am just on my way into work here. I will get what I saw later on tonight once things settle down there and then post why I questioned you on the hesitance of a bandwagon.

[Thian]

Trachimbrod: Mastin's Insane Tells ((Theory)) (MiT))

One of his theories is the second vote on the bandwagon is more than likely a scum tell especially in newbie games. Also that someone who expresses caution is scum. Now this is just theory, no real stats to prove effective enough to state 100 percent that this is a true scum tell but I can see where it comes into play here with you Trachimbrod.

To put your name second on mysterio it would raise the suspicion meter on you, scum would not want suspicion on them that early and would be more hesitant to join a bandwagon without a consensus or others on the bandwagon before them. You expressed a desire to put a vote on Mysterio but only after you had discussed it with everyone and formed a consensus.

You also approached putting any type of voting on Mysterio with caution because it would put him at L-3 as stated L-3 is not so much to worry about compared to L-2 but more so L-1.

Caution based on MiT states that because one is cautious it is scum trying to look protown. So your reaction to putting someone at L-3 seems a bit contrived.

Also
The fact that I had questioned you in post 45 by asking if you wished a consensus first before voting and then you continued in post 47 to say "No thats not it" and explained in your own words that you really did want a consensus first before you voted. you went and stumbled with trying to explain what you meant to Leech and Myself after we tried to get clarification from you.

Of course it is theory, is it 100 percent accurate no, but it is something to look at.

Leech: about the link, no worries ill see what I can find on my own hunting, if you do happen to find it great, if not ill see if I can dig it up.

Also, fair I didn't use the word sometimes, thanks for explaining it to me it makes sense. and to the fact that you do not like scum lists. I side with you on that. I don't either but if someone asks me, as Kirbyoshi did, I am going to answer as town really should be answering questions posed.

Kirbyoshi, any particular information you gather from peoples scum lists? Do you find scum lists help or hinder town more?

[Thian]

Trachimbrod:

There's a difference about putting a hammer down without proper discussion before deadline and only putting someone at L-3.

If you do not remember where you stated you wanted a consensus, I will quote it here and let you see why I feel this way original post 44

I don't think I'll vote for anyone until I'd want everyone to vote for that person too.

I don't think I will vote for anyone = you saying you are not voting
until I'd want everyone to vote for that person too = until everyone comes to a consensus

My question to you post 45

I don't have a policy for my voting yet, I can see the merits of voting to pressure, but right now I don't think I'll vote for anyone until I'd want everyone to vote for that person too.

So you are saying you will wait around until a consensus is formed and then proceed to vote?

Your response post 47

Not at all. I'm saying that I won't vote until I would want everyone to vote with me, not that I won't vote unless it's with the current majority

You disagreed with me by saying "no, not at all" then you went to practically say you actually would not vote until a consensus is formed.

I won't vote = you not voting
until I would want everyone to vote with me = until a consensus is formed

So, I read it as you will wait till everyone agrees on someone and then send out a vote but now you are saying you would vote first for someone who you think is scum.

I am addressing why were you so hesitant/cautious to put that second vote on Mysterio. If you believed that Mysterio based on Leech's "Incognito theory" minor reason or not, was worth to place a vote, why didn't you?

I feel you were a bit contrived here

I was gonna vote Mysterio for being first as well, but I don't want to pile on in RVS.

at that time you responded when Leech and Mysterio brought it out of RVS, you would have put him only at L-3 it was hardly piling votes on, as only Leech had a vote on Mysterio at that time. We all know that there is quite a bit of time. Seeing as we need 5 people to vote that one person, no one would have made a hasty decision to pile on 3 more votes without adequate discussion first. Two scum could have easily dropped 2 votes on Mysterio and still left it at L-1. Now THAT would be piling on votes and that is something to worry about and question.

I did not approach putting any type of voting on Mysterio with caution because it would put him at L-3, rather I did not vote for him because I did not have a good reason to.

you said "you don't want to pile votes." To me that means you approached with caution because it would put him closer to lynch meaning L-3 at the time.

[Thian]

Trachimbrod: I'm going off of you being hesitant to put the second vote on Mysterio.

The following statment You thought it was still RVS at that time.
"I was gonna vote for Mysterio for being first as well, but I didn't want to pile votes on during RVS"

During RVS there is no threat to a mislynch unless 3 people blindly jump onto one person within the first
two or three pages and 2 scum quick vote and hammer.

you stated during RVS, which you thought it was at the time, was ok
to vote someone ((in this case mysterio)) for being first. the risk of a potential mislynch/quick lynch was so low

your caution came across as an unnatural fear when there was no threat in a lynch by putting 2 votes on someone.

Being cautious to vote tends to look pro town because mislynches are undesireable. being cautious while there is no
true threat seems like a contrived ploy to make yourself look protown.

Not putting that second vote down on Mysterio after you said you were going to makes me think you did not want
to raise suspicion against you. You backed out of the vote with an excuse thats based on a scenario with no true threat
of a lynch at that time.




Mysterio: You pressured Hinduragi with a vote to gain a defense / response to Leech.
Hinduragi had not even been given the chance to respond yet, so how do you know
he would not have responded on his own accord or slipped up on his own? Did he really need that pressure?
What did Hinduragi do that was scummy when he pretty much only had one post?

Mysterio: Can you tell me where Leech has cited Incognito's theory incorrectly?


I am still wondering why Steppenwolf avoided Hinduragi's question and put Mysterio and Leech as probably town instead
of answering hinduragi's question upfront and his need to have written "In all honesty".

but probably will not get an answer to that seeing as they have been replaced.

Hi Chimp Pants, glad to be in another game with you.

Hello drmyshottyizsik

[Thian]

Ok so I looked at the players on the wagon and I read Leech first
and either he is Obv Town, or he is over doing it because he is scum.

Shotty, this is a sort of obvious statement. Not that I am picking this out to be a scummy thing to say but you really haven't picked a side in which you feel he is. anyone could say person A is town but also could be scum.

Even though you follow up with your reasons as to why you believe he might be scummy, it feels as if you didn't want to choose one way or another by making the above quote include the town comment and then the scum comment.

Thian, I still don't see why you think I was afraid of putting someone at L-3, wary that it would result in a quick mislynch. I was going to vote for Mysterio in RVS for a reason that I don't consider strong enough to vote on outside of RVS.

Trachimbrod: Saying you would vote someone in RVS when you thought it was rvs and then saying you didn't want to pile votes on someone, is a sign of hesitation / fear to me.

you said you would vote mysterio for being first. Putting him at L-3 but you didn't want to pile votes on during RVS. so you want to vote, but you don't vote that to me seems fearful. Why didn't you place your vote during RVS for a reason that you felt was acceptable. I am not talking about now, I am talking about why you didn't do it then when there was no threat of anyone quick lynching.

Maybe fear would not be the right words to use but cautious. to me being cautious is a sense of fear, being hesitant is being cautious you are fearing something.

At the time you were giong to vote for Mysterio in RVS for what you considered an acceptable reason and you AT the time thought it was RVS but didn't vote for mysterio.

i understand that currently you don't think it is a strong enough vote outside of RVS which is fine. however you stated at the time you were going to vote for mysterio for posting first but didn't want to pile votes on during RVS

by you stating that you didn't want to pile votes on during RVS means you thought AT the time it was RVS which you stated it would be acceptable to vote for Mysterio.

and another thing Trachimbrod.

when you say "...,wary of a quick mislynch" are you advising us that you know for certain mysterio would have been a mislynch?

[Thian]

And Thian, the part of your post directed to Brod makes my head spin. Did you inadvertently post one point twice? Am I seeing double? What's going on here?

Kirbyoshi. I brought up a point, he asked for explanation, he didn't understand it after I explained it so I explained it yet again seeing as though one explanation wasn't enough

What I'm getting is there is a difference between how he felt before when his behaviour did not match up what his beliefs were and I want to get to the bottom of it because his caution was unjustified, at that time.

The caution / hesitation to me makes me feel he did not want to start a bandwagon and raise suspicion on himself and it has nothing to do with "piling votes" on Mysterio because by him voting it wouldn't even mattered as there are still not enough people to quick hammer before adequate discussion.

thats what I find so scummy about it.

Kirbyoshi. I went and read the wiki but I am not understanding the "too townie" fallacy that you are bringing up in this instance. can you explain it to me? Not the theory but where you found the "too townie" fallacy in what was said?

[Thian]

Kirbyoshi: I am still a bit confused about the too townie fallacy where in Shotty's paragraph is this fallacy being used?

[Thian]

@Thian What is the point of continuing to question trachimbrod about his voting policy? Are you actually accusing him of anything? Do you plan on going somewhere with your questioning? I ask because you seem insistent on it without actually explaining the point of your questioning.

Mysterio, Trachimbrod has made some confusing posts comparative to his voting policy. Trachimbrod also asked for re-explanation after i had explained it to him a few times already so my continuation is partly due to trachimbrod not understanding and also partly because I have a suspicion on him. That's why I'm continuing to question what his hesitation was.
"piling on votes" wasn't happening at the time he stated it. He said he would vote you mysterio, thought it was acceptable at the time to do so, but didn't because of an excuse that made no sense.
I stated my reasoning, caution when there was no need for it and the unwant of putting a second vote on someone because it would raise suspicion against him. Why did you feel the need for me to re-explain this to you Mysterio after Trachimbrod already asked me to?

Shotty, are you frusterated at Leech for something?

Kirbyoshi: question on the too town fallacy, do you feel it has a scummy vibe to it and would warrent an FoS on Shotty?

[Thian]

Chimp Pants: I feel that if mysterio was already sitting on L-3 and Trachimbrod stated "I was going to vote that person, but I don't want to pile votes on" to bring him to L-2 it would be a more justified reason to be cautious then I could see the need for it because the vote would be at tipping point..

[Thian]

Shotty,

I don't believe you forgot who is in this game. Our names are all posted in this thread to see who you are responding to and what you are responding to. Mysterio is definately different than Black Mist.

another thing, if you really are having a hard time with the names and remembering what games you are in with who, maybe re-evaluate how many games you participate at a time. There is a reason why they state for newbies to only attempt 1 or 2 games at a time.

The way I see it is if you thought that it was this person named "black mist" and not "Myst"-erio, it means you are not reading what you are responding to and just reacting. I feel townies would actually read what is being typed so they can form analysis and questions properly to scum hunt.

Why are you frusterated at Chimp for Voting for you when you responded with foul language? do you not feel Chimp has a valid arguement?

Vote: Drmyshottyizsik

[Thian]

Leech has not voted for you.

Why don't you believe that Chimp Pants arguement is valid enough reason to vote for you?

You said you thought that Mysterio was not scum. You voted for him. What are your reasons for voting Mysterio if you feel he is not scum? Clearly if you do not feel someone is scum, you would not vote for them, right?

You avoided responding to Leeches question and avoided a very good point leech brought up about your reference of a name / game mix up. You would have been addressing the name Myst as Mist if you really had mixed that up.

Also, in order to have reason you need evidence. Having evidence gives you your reason. We now have to assume your reason is "gut" and if your reasoning is a gut feeling it not a way to get any support.

Why did you over react to chimp pants vote and accusation with foul language?

If you really are town, get your head into the game and scum hunt properly because you have just caused a problem for everyone trying to rid the town of scum.

[Thian]

Mysterio: the amount of re-explanation and laziness in not reading and skimming over posts is rediculous at this point. I have had to explain myself 2 or 3 times already and have been accused of repeating myself. So please be warned I will be repeating things I have already stated.

Trachimbrod thinks its RVS says he will vote for Mysterio but won't place the vote because he doesn't want to pile on votes during RVS.

upon further discussion he says he does not want a lynch without proper discussion as found in the quote below

I would not mind putting my name second, first, or last on a player that I think is scum. I am cautious, I see no reason not to be when we have time to spare for discussion.

If he is cautious here, what is he cautious about?

You were no where near being lynched with Leech being the only one on you voting at the time. We still would have had enough discussion. His concern of a lynch is not justified, there was no capability of being lynched that quick. 2 other people had to jump onto your bandwagon within the first 3 pages and then both scum would have had to be the L-1 and Hammer vote.

His caution being unjustified, looks contrived. The only reason why anyone would have an unjustified reason to be cautious would be scum to look "pro town" More often than not townies would be hesitant or cautious with valid reasons. this was not a valid reason.

I was going to vote in RVS on a minor suspicion, but I felt that as the 2nd vote, it would have implied a gravity behind my vote that was not actually there.

Trachimbrod: What would putting a 2nd vote implied on you?

Note: I will be leaving for Vacation from 20 August to 23rd August to my cottage. I will have no internet access during this time V/LA or would it be V/NA?

I will be on hopefully this evening and during the day to post before 4pm EST other than that I am gone for 4 days.

[Thian]

Chimp Pants:

You asked me why I didn't put my vote onto anyone else after my wrongly placed vote on someone who was not in a game. I wanted better participation levels, I wanted proper vote counts and the game seemed really unorganized until the new mod came in.

Leech and Mysterio's debate had really taken the front seat, 2 other people replaced out who were also on my top 3 list.

Kirbyoshi, why do you feel you are about to die? has anyone indicated to you that you were going to be lynched?

[Thian]

[

You asked me why I didn't put my vote onto anyone else after my wrongly placed vote on someone who was not in a game. I wanted better participation levels, I wanted proper vote counts and the game seemed really unorganized until the new mod came in.

Sorry, but this is an incredibly weak response. You need the mod to post vote counts before you'll vote? How about you count the votes yourself and scumhunt? Lack of participation shouldn't stop you from pressuring and analyzing posts, it simply means your votes will probably be limited to the people actively playing. Or you could vote the people not playing and pressure them into playing and not lurking. Nothing about Day 1 should have stopped you from placing votes, nor does it explain why you kept your RVS vote on a player that wasn't in the game. You didn't even bother unvoting, which says to me you never had any intention of voting until Shotty came around and gave you an easy target to finally vote for.

prods are nice, organization is nice. Mistakes can happen mysterio. Look at when you hammered Shotty, hinduragi got confused. The votes counts are there for a reason to not cause confusion and the host is there to move the game along with proper prods.

I have been asking question, and scumhunting. So not putting a vote until I saw a person who warrented my vote for behaving scummy and being a complete distraction to the town is scummy? That makes no sense.

Also you say Lack of participation should not stop me from pressuring and analyzing posts?

If one does not post ((lack of participation)) then what posts are there to analyze except for the only content between you and leech? I am not sure if you are aware as well Mysterio that, if my votes are limited to the people who are actually active due to content to analyze as you also stated, it could be 2 or 3 townies going after each other how is that proper scum hunting? Thats just fishing to make potential townies look guilty enough to warrant a vote.

Why did you even state "you didn't even bother unvoting?" if I voted on a mistake for someone who was not in the game, is there a reason to unvote? not really because that vote is already void. That person should not have been posting in the thread reserved for this game he was not apart of.

Mysterio. You hammered Shotty for reasons of him being "too incompetent to play the game" incompetency is a scum tell? or should incompetency be questioned first before coming to the conclusion he is scummy enough to hammer?

I would actually like to go back to Chimp Pants concern here too where in post 317 he addresses Kirbyoshi's response to hinduragi. Kirbyoshi, why were you so certain you were not going to get killed? just incase you missed it.

Also Hinduragi asked for a response from you Kirbyoshi. Why did you stall and say "Hindu: I will Tomorrow, promise"? instead you could have responded to hinduragi with a proper answer when hinduragi asked you to.

[Thian]

Star: post 270 you stated that you don't engage in D1 much. Why?

[Thian]

^^^^^
hope to hear your responses soon.

Start, I know you have given your work schedule and stuff.
I do sympathize with this being an honest post but it can be looked at two ways of playing off a truthful situation.

first way. you really are busy and do not have time. Which I can really appreciate. Working 12 hour shifts is quite taxing on the brain and can be physically and mentally exhausting. Piled up with life as well and the inability to hang out for hours on end infront of a computer and that being a day off to do what you want to do.

second way, you are busy but have enough time to post updates on more content to come. This is a little frusterating. Are you playing on the fact that the majority of everyone else is not participating so you decide to hide and get away with as little content as possible and avoid being prodded or replaced?

I just want to see something from you Start its going almost 12 hours after you stated you would post in a few hours which is more than enough time to post something even if its a small paragraph that is dedicated to scum hunting.

Also I have a question to you Start. Post 101 you stated "People vote for a variety of reasons make sure you hammer or even put someone at L-1 for good ones"

Would you say Mysterio's reasons for hammering were good?

Mysterio post 281

He posted 5 times since being at L-1, never even hinting that he was going to claim anything. My guess is he doesn't have anything to claim, otherwise he would have done it after Leech put him at L-1. If he does have something to claim, then all that does is show once more that he has no idea how to play this game.

This post seems off to me. You are justifying your hammer on someone who doesn't have any role to claim? or are you justifying your hammer on his incompetency to play the game?

[Thian]

Mysterio, do you believe that scum hunting is determined by vote? or is it determined by questions and content to analyze?
Also, are you trying to justify with your last post that my vote on shotty is more suspicious compared to your hammer?

Star you didn't answer chimp pants question directly. you stated who you felt was town, not scum.

Star you didn't answer my question directly either. ""Do you feel that mysterio's reasons were good?" I didn't ask if it made him more suspicious or not.

Star Is this feeling you have about Leech and chimp Pants based on gut?

[Thian]

Chimp Pants: I felt that shotty was a distraction because of his reaction in some responses to questions and comments posed to him along with votes. He became frusterated, resorted to swearing / caps, and name calling. He also flew accusations around based on him being "Mad". It felt like, if this was going to be the way he would respond in the game I would be constantly questioning why his reactions were of frusteration. Would he be a townie getting frusterated at being wrongly accused, or a scum getting emotional for getting caught? Would he start OMGUS'ing just because someone voted for him? I don't want to waste my time figuring him out when I can use my time more wisely on those who are not clear to me.

[Thian]

Startransmission.
Mysterio stated that Shotty was not hinting to claim anything while sitting at L-1 and that justified his hammer along with an incompetency to play the game. Did it not even sink into his head that if you have no role to claim it might be better off if you are VT not to claim anything at all. If shotty had claimed anything other than VT ((which then would be WIFOM and useless)) it may cause other power roles to view him as lying and give even more reason to put a vote on him. The only people who might benefit from claiming something when they are about to be lynched are Scum, and power roles.

And why I am persuing your opinion on it? Based on your policy in post 101. "People vote for a variety of reasons make sure you hammer or even put someone at l-1 for good ones". You haven't bothered to question Mysterio about the hammer nor engaged conversation with the person who put Shotty at L-1. If you believe in that policy, why did you not question it further with Mysterio and engage in a conversation, especially since we lost a townie during that lynch and it was your policy.

I know if I were in your shoes and I stated you need good reasons to hammer. I would seriously look into those reason and not just play it off as, oh well D-1 policy lynch thats ok on to the next one.

Then to top it off insert Mysterio into the mix.
Starting with Day one. Leech voted for Mysterio, but pressured hinduragi with questions. This triggered Mysterio to feel that Leech was FOS'ing Hinduragi while voting for Mysterio. Mysterio thought Leech was scummy for that and called it distancing.

Yet what is Mysterio doing right out of the gate on Day 2? FOSing Startransmission and Voting for someone else. Completely hypocritical.

and now I have both of you questioning me, without bothering to look at each other, Star passing off Mysterio as just another one of the group on the wagon and Mysterio FOSing yet voting else where.


Mysterio:
I am saying your hammer is inherently more suspicious. Shotty in my mind had good reason to be lynched. He was a distraction, his emotional response to simple questions or votes placed on him caused him to look scummy in my eyes. Also self voting? That is not towards a townie win condition which all sides should be playing to in the first place. And your hammer which caused a lynch on a townie was based on someone not claiming anything, especially since he might not have had anything to claim or reason to claim?

Now Mysterio you question my integrity behind my votes due to suspicion. Did you not remember Kirbyoshi asking who my top three scum reads were?

@Thian: Who are your top 3 scum reads?

To KirbYoshi:
Top 3:
1. Mysterio for the AtE's, and all of what has been questioned on him so far.
2. Illume ((theory after this))
3. Steppenwolf ((theory below))

These were my top three suspects Chimp Pants is not on that list currently anymore as suspicious. He has contributed more townie in my eyes. Shotty is lynched, which leaves you Mysterio.

Mysterio, you were in the top spot. Illume ((chimp pants replaced)) was in my second spot based on a replacement theory that was being tested. Steppenwolf ((DrMyShottyizsik replace)) in third spot again on a replacement theory which was being tested and turned out wrong. If I really wanted to put my money where my mouth was, my vote would be on you during that time. However, you and leech tunnelled in on each other, you both were distracting, just as much as Shotty was, just in a different ways. The debate that bubbled up from you both allowed people to hide, or focus questions completely on what you or leech were going off of which was limiting to participation levels from other people on a conversation you both dominantly controlled.


So now comes what I find odd, why are you suggesting I should have voted for Trachimbrod if I questioned him so much, when my initial scum radar was on you?

Post 345 Mysterio said. You aren't even voting for the player you've questioned the most (brod), who you believe is being scummy with his lack of voting.

I haven't said he was scummy with lack of voting. I thought his hesitation and caution starting a bandwagon was needless and suscpicious and questioned based on his caution why he didn't vote when he really expressed a desire to.
Unlike Trachimbrod, I never said anywhere "oh, I was going to vote for this person, but.... I'm not going to because of <<insert irrelevant concern here>>"

Vote: Mysterio

[Thian]

Chimp pants, I find it questionable, not neccesarily scummy of Start not to question his own policy on the person who hammered. The hammer came down so hastily by mysterio, and that doesn't cause reason for concern? It's just played off as D-1 Policy lynch?

Mysterio's reasons were not that good in my opinion. His reasons were based off of being impatient with Shotty. Shotty was not claiming fast enough for Mysterio's liking, also for the dumbass comments directed towards Mysterio and as mysterio puts it being incompetent to play the game. As well, Mysterio wanting the next phase of the game to start.

It seems to me Mysterio was not basing it off of Shotty playing the game, but more of shotty as a person.

why be impatient and why the rush to hammer and get the day over with Mysterio?

Shotty may not have wanted to claim anything to not give information out to scum. However, even a VT claim would help by getting reactional responses that would have started conversations and assisted us going into Day 2. Instead Mysterio does not wait for the claim, hammers just to get the day over with.

Kirbyoshi. I could just as easily point out this scenario as well.
you wrote : @everyone: Who is most likely to be scum if shotty flips town? What if he flips scum?
Hinduragi wrote: You, because you're asking during Twilight so you know who to kill during the night phase.
Hinduragi then pointed the question back at you and all you said was. I will answer tomorrow, I promise.
Was hinduragi right to suspect you? Did you end up stalling until night time so you didn't have to respond? Then ended up NK'ing him so you didn't have someone coming after you?

I could also point out. The very first vote in the game by Mysterio was Hinduragi and Hinduragi is dead now.

Are these fair things to assess someones guilt on?

[Thian]

Alright, about the only thing I can do here since chimp pants and Mysterio continously want to put their vote on me, is ask if they want a claim. That way there is enough time for discussion before deadline to help you guys out.

I will agree with leech that Kirbyoshi is looking a bit off and the reason for that is his vote on chimp pants is probably not in the best place right now.

Mysterio: Did you not notice that Leech was doing just that at the beginning, voting someone and pressuring another. Yet you called that scummy and distancing. You are doing the same thing on day 2 so why is what you are doing different on day 2 than what leech was doing different on day one?

The reason why i was ignoring your debate with leech mysterio is because there are other people in the game who needed to be engaged in a conversation that was not based on "the mysterio and leech show". Instead they were sitting on the sidelines commenting on your debate, but were not being questioned on their comments or ideas. Why was I so insistant and repetative during those times? the amount of explanation / re-explaining because people didn't understand, or were refusing to get it is why it went on for longer than it should have.

The hammer is more suspicious on you because the way you did it mysterio. The impatientness to not wait for a proper claim when there was still a few more days.

Trachimbrod's replacement has not come around nor has delivered on his promise of a re-read so until then, I'm good where my vote is because I don't have any content from trachimbrod anymore, and his replacement hasn't posted anything and Mysterio seems to want to direct where my vote goes onto a person who has not posted any content yet to analyze.

[Thian]

Mysterio, you are also pointing a finger on the fact that I questioned Trachimbrod on Day one and my vote wasn't placed on him and that when Shotty came around that it was opportunistic of me.

You were quite opportunistic yourself, you had your vote on leech. Instead of continuing the debate with Leech, which Leech handled himself very well. You saw an easy way out of the debate by switching votes to hammer shotty.

What are your thoughts on Leech now Mysterio? You have had quite the discussion with him on day one its seemed to disolve now, what happened from day one until now that you both are not at each other?

[Thian]

Applefarmer, please come around. Thanks.

[Thian]

Saw you log in but not type anything and its been a while since you posted.

[Thian]

Mysterio: fair enough I did miss the vote on chimp pants prior to you changing to shotty. So that is incorrect on my part. However, it doesn't excuse the fact that you did change your vote over from where it was on chimp pants to shotty for an opportunistic hammer so that you could rush yourself into a night phase and go for a night kill.

I've noticed a trend in your votes. As soon as someone votes you Mysterio you vote for them. Leech voted for you, you voted for Leech. Chimp Pants voted you. You voted for chimp. Shotty voted you, you voted for Shotty. They found things that were scummy about you first. Since there was no support in a leech lynch, or Chimp Pants Lynch, you automatically moved over to shotty where votes were piled high enough to end the day so you could NK. Now that Chimp Pants has a vote on me and you do too, you are now cheerleading people to join you. They will join if they really feel that way.

Mysterio: Inactivity means less posts, but Leech feels that the content that IS there, is scummy enough to have his vote on that person why are you pushing people to vote how you want? What's wrong with having a vote on Kirbyoshi?

[Thian]

Hi guys,

I am pretty much telling you, as much as I do not want to do this, I think it might be best if I could claim asap so you guys can decide on how you want to approach the next week before the lynch.

Let me know. I am in an out of my house for the weekend due to birthday party for a good friend. I will be here checking. Mysterio and Chimp seem to have made up their minds on where they are happiest with the vote. I am not so much worried about Chimp Pants. It is Mysterio's vote, to me, that really should be questioned if I am lynched or Nk'd.

[Thian]

alright listen. i don't give two flying effs, about votes against me right now drunk and crap, so im laying it down. . the only person I care about is chimp pants. buddy im sorry. about the people I am really damn well questioning is mysterio and kirbyoshi.. If you are town. wake up and move on. kirbyoshi your vote against chimp pants was suspect so stop it and move to a scummy person thanks. Mysterio no matter how cool you think you are....get over yourself too and vote else where.. start transmission, your poor preformance. god dammit. get into the game. I assure you you are not needed in a newbie game if your participation levels are lacking THIS much. I am done. I will not respond any more to anyone. excpet for chimp.

you want a claim. As soon as somoene says. "Thian, what is your role" I will claim. otherwise, the hell with you all. im done. thanks. val im sorry....the participation level in this game sucks....this is not on you...this is on the people who signed up for a game to play and have not bother to play....

SO here are my theories.

why the hell are leech and mysterio not bothering with each other anymore? especially after the first day that they were after each other. startransmission...oh god, get into the game. kirbyoshi, figure out your vote and then start figuring yourself out. otherwise, you are looking guilty because you are voting chimp for no god damn reason.

and kalimar. im sorry but people, start questionining that crap..cus well. look at it, his name starts with a K. and thast Scummy in itself

Tah dahhhh im done.

[Thian]

Kirbyoshi needs to be questioned as to why the hell he was on a horrid lynch for shotty.....mysterio and leech need to be questioned why they were so opportunistic for a lynch on shotty as they are accusing me for the same crap.

[Thian]

well that was fun.

Mysterio: what is your facination of accusing chimp pants of "being opportunistic" were you not on an opportunistic lynch yourself? so if you are going to start questioning people down that route start answering your question with why you were opportunistic by putting your name down on shotty.

[Thian]

Leech: opportunistic I believed how mysterio was meaning it is, putting a vote on someone which will not cause too much ripple of questioning. Mysterio has accused me of doing that on shotty d-1. did he not have his vote there as well? did you not have your vote there as well too? did kirbyoshi? yes we all did. So I believe, before mysterio starts flinging around the "you are being opportunistic" arguement he needs to look at his own actions. he specifically said that my vote was opportunistic in post 369. I may be honestly mistaken on how he means it you are right, but as of right now that is what I believe he meant.

chimp: should I not jump to your defense?

[Thian]

chimp: I didn't like his vote on you, that is for certain. His explanation afterwards is horrid after he came around as to why he was voting for you. Leech took over from there on questioning him for the most part of the day. So really i would be regurgitating information that we all ready know, which is the avoidance of points made against him. I did two re-reads on him over the past day or two, quick re-reads of course. For the most part I found a lot of asking where people are, why aren't they posting, but he's not posting content himself. So kirbyoshi, are you fearful of typing anything?
I am willing to hammer at this point but honestly not before a claim is made. the day needs a lynch. so deadline is the 16th and I am prepared. If mysterio wants to go lynch another person due to himself being impatient to not wait for a lynch, that would be fine too.

[Thian]

Kalimar: what is alluring you to my buddying with chimp? has something peeked your curiosity? would you want me to buddy up and latch on to you instead?

[Thian]

Mysterio, why are you so upset for having to answer a question. If you are not guilty, it shouldn't be a problem answering the same question a few times.

You state part of scum hunting is putting a vote. Part of scum hunting is also questioning. Putting two together is what consists of full on scum hunting? That is your method. Is your method wrong? no, it is just different from mine. So you are trying to base my guilt on "ideals" to what scum hunting is?

Thats not scum hunting, thats making someone look guilty because they don't follow by your rules.

Mysterio why do you insist on dropping hammers before deadline without waiting for claims? I really do find that curious. It is funny how you have tunnelled in on me, and are now ready to hammer kirby.

Who matters more to you to have lynched? It seems it doesn't matter, either way is good for you as long as someone is being lynched? Do you honestly find kirbyoshi scummy? What happened to your FOS on startransmission ((yes I know he is being replaced)) but you did have an opinion about him before.

[Thian]

and speaking of easy targets mysterio, would kirbyoshi be considered an easy target to pick off since leech did all the legwork in questioning him and you spent your time on me?

[Thian]

leech are you defending mysterio? was that debate between you and mysterio at the beginning a way to distance yourself from each other?

kalimar point taken.

Kirbyoshi. why did you leave this so late there is pretty much only a day left.

[Thian]

The problem is, with mysterio. He has tunnelled in on the fact that I voted someone who posted in a game that they were not playing. I made an error, simply put.

He blows it out of proportion based on his ideals first. So because I am not following his rules for scum hunting, ((Voting on someone who I am predominantly questioning)) does that give him legitimate case? In my opinion, no. It doesn't.

What I believe he is accusing me of is this.
I vote drowmage ((someone not in he game who should not really have been posting in the first place in this thread))
I was called out on it and advised everyone it was an error. Really, it was.
I start questioning trachimbrod on trachimbrod's policies without voting him or bolding an FOS on him. ((which the FOS really is needless in my opinion))
Then shotty comes in and I find more reason to put my vote on Shotty than to continue my conversation with Trachimbrod. However because I didn't bold FOS, or Vote against Trachimbrod that makes me guilty? Come on, how many people have questioned another person yet voted someone else in this game?

Mysterio's arguement is weak, really weak. I may not be the best at debating or arguing with people who have strong opinions, and my thoughts do tend to go all over the place and are disorganized, but when I feel that someone is trying to make me look guilty based on all of the above, what reason would I have to change my vote? About the only reason is to avoid a "no lynch".

to top it off, he really has ignored Chimp Pants several request for a proper answer along with Kirbyoshi asking as well. Then he got frusterated and answered it incorrectly, by calling me opportunistic ((which seems to be the theme of this game from his point of view)). It wasn't a question about being opportunistic at all.

Kirbyoshi has given quite the run of suspicion, but now we have something to really consider, is it best interest to lynch and test the claim ?

[Thian]

Mysterio also in your post where you vote me. You say
"Lack of participation shouldn't stop you from pressuring and analyzing posts, it simply means your votes will probably be limited to the people actively playing." This is just so wrong Mysterio. Reason below.

Lack of participation is a deterrant to PROPERLY scum hunt. If my selection of people are limited to the only ones who are active, that means I am only questioning those who have given something to analyze. If those people who have contributed content to analyze are mainly composed of town, then chances are there will be more town on town arguements. Which is not good. Town will start picking apart other town until they begin to see flaws and accuse each other of being scum. It seems to me you don't really care about the activity levels, even if it limits you on the people you can question.

[Thian]

6 hours to go. Well, now lol Mysterio you really need to stop a minute and re-evaluate why you are telling the group I am scummy.

To you, I am scummy because I didn't unvote ((lol@that)) that's not a scum tell
I apparently haven't scum hunted ((thats not true))
Voting for shotty ((you did too))

Then you go and tunnel in on me to "add pressure" until I flake out.
You claim Scum flake out if you put pressure on them, but consider this as well.
Someone who puts pressure ((tunnels in)) on a town that much can end up making a town flake out and appear scummy so you can use to your advantage.

So just as you are putting pressure on a townie ((me)), I can accuse you of being a tunnelling scum based on horrible logic. The fact that you haven't bothered with anyone else at this point Mysterio seems scummy.

Its funny how Kalimar is only stepping in as well when he is asked a question or his name is brought up. Why are you sitting back?

[Thian]

I find Leech's and Mysterio's debate at the beginning a distraction to distance themselves.

They both jumped onto shotty bandwagon which linked them together again.
Someone called the whole group out being on the shotty lynch Scummy. They both panicked and started pointing fingers at the other two people on the shotty bandwagon and not at each other either.
Now Leech cheerleaded Kirbyoshi and is on a potential mislynch. ((leech was tunnelling))
Mysterio is cheerleading a lynch against me a townie. ((mysterio was tunnelling))
They are distancing themselves again.

Now that Leech is on a kirbyoshi lynch, Mysterio doesn't seem to want anything to do with a Kirbyoshi lynch because that would link them back up together again as they are working very hard to distance themselves after being linked to the shotty lynch.

Now that Kirbyoshi claimed doc, it makes even more sense for him to stay off the lynch as it would tie Leech and Myserio back up together again as they already distanced themselves.

Something about Mysterio's post 336 and Leech's response in 337 just seems encouraging to each other and giving Mysterio a friendly soft reminder not to do the FOS and Vote as it looks scummy after they fought about it on day one.

If you are questioning someone, you are questioning them because you feel they are worthy of suspicion and this adds true pressure and produces content for everyone to analyze ((that is scum hunting I have been doing that))
Simply typing out a reason why you FOS someone, does not consist of scum hunting. Thats just saying oh, I suspect you.
Mysterio hasn't bothered to question anything with anyone else what so ever.

[Thian]

5 Hours. I don't think much will be accomplished. I will be checking back and will consider hammering in a few hours.

[Thian]

yeah, this is going to really be unfortunate if this doc claim is really true.

unvote: Mysterio
Vote:Kirbyoshi

[Thian]

Kalimar, you logged in, why no comment? you have no reaction to a doc claim?

[Thian]

to my above comment to kalimar. Sorry I saw you log off your name wasn't updated. probably because you were typing a message. My apologies.

[Thian]

Kalimar, I expect the worst ((that he is a doc)) but hope for the best ((that he is scum)). I feel there might be sincerity in his claim and since no one else has claimed doc, thats really making me think he is who he says he is. The problem is, he left it late, we had no time to actually get anywhere and we need a lynch. He states it was his absense from the website that caused his inactivity. Did he leave it late on purpose? or was it genuine?

[Thian]

**at work right now, so my responses might be a bit slow if off break**

[Thian]

yes, I see your point.

[Thian]

Actually Chimp Pants brought up a good point to Kalimar. What motivation would Kirbyoshi have to save star? Star didn't really do anything besides promise more content later for most of the time, and he isn't even over 1 page of content.

Get together with a group of people you mistrust as a doc, and you know that the first night someone is going to get killed? Why would the doc not save himself to keep himself safe until the next day at least until he gets a trust worthy read on someone?

Kalimar will have to be looked at next day if Kirbyoshi turns up scum.

[Thian]

oh, okay i totally missed that. scratch that then.

[Thian]

herrrr derrrrpp. nope. not at all. Its why I didn't counter claim, because i know what I am and I'm definately not that.

[Thian]

Okay, no need for Reads.

Guys. I am cop.

first night checked Chimp pants. thats why I buddied him like no ones business on day 2.

Night 2. checked Mysterio.

He is guilty. thats positive. confirmed.

If you need to lynch me this day please do, you will get your role reveal from me and show that I am telling you the truth. So I do not mind a lynch on me today.

but please.

Vote Mysterio he is guilty confirmed.

We will win this guys, please trust me. We will win.

Vote Mysterio

[Thian]

If you guys do need to discuss my role claim then please do so.

Keep the discussion focused on Myself, or Mysterio only. You will only be arguing with other if you focus on anyone else at this point.

If you can't trust me, then please lynch me.
Personally, I don't want to see any more townies dead so please vote with me.

[Thian]

Here is one of Mysterio's posts
He tries to cast suspicion off of Kirbyoshi at the top, and due to activity Mysterio needs help and asks for a prod from the mod.
Then you see him asking questions to everyone, but why does he ask a question to everyone and then make a statement to kirbyoshi. It's like he is telling kirbyoshi he needs to start talking to get himself out of his own mess.

Kirbyoshi looked like prime lurkerscum material to me due to his last post, but I checked his posts and since then he hasn't posted anything site wide in a few days. Now I'm starting to think it's pure lack of activity.

@mod, requesting prod on Kirbyoshi

@Applefarmer, where'd you go?

@Leech, what's your take on Thian and Star?

@Kirbyoshi, respond to the cases against you.

@Star, CAN YOU PLEASE SCUMHUNT NOW? You still haven't voted anyone the entire game. This is getting ridiculous. We have a lot of dead weight which is slowing this game down to a crawl.

also, why didn't he jump on the kirbyoshi bandwagon. He was so eager himself to lynch that Day 1 without a claim, and last night it was different? He didn't want to vote his partner.

that is why it was so fishy to me after seeing him jump on the shotty wagon and lynch without remorse he didn't care one way or another about shotty, but all of a sudden he now doesn't put the hammer down on Kirbyoshi.

sorry leech for pairing you up with Mysterio, no hard feelings.

[Thian]

Mysterio, your vote should be on you, you scummy scummy man you. Voting for Springlullaby? What reason? Just because she is a replacement? Don't distract town.

If you are worried about my claim, then your vote should be on me, not anyone else right now. What happened to your "Thian is scum lynch him and you have scum" theory from Day 2?

[Thian]

and another thing. I am not avoiding being lynched. I actually welcome it just to proove you wrong Mr Maferio.

[Thian]

Mysterio, you had literally stated yesterday, lynch Thian, we lynch scum. You ranted and raved. Stop fluffing yourself up. It is what it is. You are caught and thats that.

Why were you trying to pull people away from Kirbyoshi vote onto me yesterday?

[Thian]

Mysterio, please hammer yourself since you liked hammering Shotty day one. I think this will give Shotty justice at this point.

[Thian]

Good game Mysterio, seriously! I was sweating buckets on day 2. Really, well played everyone.

[Thian]

Hrm, I thought Kalimar was doc for some reason. I felt that he soft claimed at one point just before the end of the second day. My cop play on day 2 ... was just atrocious....but I really wanted chimp pants vote off of me since I investigated him. then the horrid post after bar. lol I really do need to listen to myself the first time. At any rate, Kirbyoshi's vote on chimp pants set off a slight alarm on day two, but I was focused on Mysterio for the hammer on day one without letting shotty claim.

I can't believe leech had predicted a mafia based on the first to post. Perhaps stats should be taken to see if this is a credible theory. I found scum to be very good and Leech finding kirbyoshi out. Good work on that.

To springlullabye. For sure, I wouldn't claim something if I really wasn't, unless I was scum. That doesn't work in favours for town and will throw off the person who really does hold that role.

[Thian]

LOL Chimp, its why I immediately checked you first night. Then finally when you came back innocent, I left you alone hoping you would go after someone else, I couldn't shake you off until I became a blathering idiot of stupidity.

I had Kalimar as doc
Startransmission I really was a bit disappointed in the fact there was hardly any content from him so I was worried about checking him if it would be a waste
Leech, he really looked pro town but the Tunnelling in on people made me scared. He is also good at standing ground. Also I really had thought he was partnering with Mysterio after he slowly started getting his FOS up.

Kalimar and Start were my first two choices on sending in an investigation.
I wanted to investigate Mysterio but a few things I was hesitating on in the "what if" and "why" senarios
If I investigate Mysterio - will scum kill him and therefore waste my invetigation
If Kirbyoshi is scum, is Mysterio really town because why would he bus his partner on his way out.
I sent Vel 2 or 3 pvt messages before due date and deleted each one because I was too nervous to screw up another investigation when it was my ass on the line on day 3.

so I guess I will just go over my thoughts on everyone

Shotty: Sorry about the quick lynch on day 1. I found your style of play at least very distracting for a pro town player and as a cop, it would have wasted an investigation just to clear your name. I think maybe just to calm down a bit during your play might be a good idea, but you are going to do what you do. I think clearing up your thoughts or mind before posting and organizing thought will do wonders.

Hinduragi: I found even your brief time playing, you had Kirbyoshi pinned, so good play on your part to notice the things stated during twilight enough to question it. Unfortunately there was little time to play with you

Leech: You had Mysterio pinned on day one, but since it was an RVS arguement, did you just dismiss it? or were you keeping an eye on him during the game as well? Good job on Kirbyoshi as well. I know I accused you of cheerleading and partnering with Mysterio, but I think it was because of my feelings on Mysterio that judged my thoughts on you during day 2. Especially with the WoT's and amount of info to sift through. I thought it was a way to distract people.

Mysterio: You really played well! Honestly great scum job and even to pull out a few of the arguements on day three. You had me convinced that I was to die night 2, or lynched on Day 3 and then you probably would have gotten further for sure. Perhaps to even win it.

Kirbyoshi: I guess the types of posts you presented to everyone got the better of you and the active lurking type posts and promises of more things to come and "filler" type posts. I haven't played scum so I don't know much.

Sweetlullaby: lol quick win indeed. All you need to do is show up and you win. Now how are them odds?

Kalimar: I found your posts to be town oriented, but something I guess just sat in the back of my head to be careful of you. Probably due to the fact that you had replaced someone. I find I get more nervous of people who just replace and skeptical of them more so then the people I have been talking to.

Chimp Pants: I don't like your vote analysis based on. It is starting to get me in trouble when I play with you.. Overall good play and thanks for coming to my side when Mysterio was making me look a guiltier by the second.

As for myself, seeing as this was my first time playing cop. I've noticed that I didn't want to waste any investigations in case my time was limited. I always kept feeling that, as a cop, i'd rather be lynched, than night killed. At least I could claim and advise of who I had investigated and then then town would be able to use the public votes to narrow down a few possible suspects this way. It was important for me to figure out who would I be wasting an investigation on and where it would be better placed, and thats the dilema I really came to on night 2. Also, my Day 2 was not stellar at all.

Was disappointed on the slow down in the game at some points and the promises of more things to come, which was constant. However, I must hand it to the few who were active, and the scum who were actively participating instead of leaving it to the "lurking scum types".

So anyhewwwww. thats my thoughts.

[Thian]

@ Leech: I hear you loud and clear at all your points. One thing I don't like doing is going back on other peoples games and see how they play. sure it helps but there is something ((as of right now)) that i like figuring out people on my own time and this is the first time I played with you. chimp pants on the other hand, I played with him once, so i knew some what, what I was getting into when playing with him. So, this is a learning experience with you leech and I can't wait to attempt another game at some point with you.

[Thian]

Kalimar: I couldn't agree with you more. It will be something that I have to take on board for next time. The misrepping I have done quite a bit because I don't remember full details all the time and sifting through info can be tedious. I do proof read what I do write ((most of the time)) but most of my thoughts come out like thoughts in my head, brain storms and half thoughts. Need to work on being clearer and more focused.

Hinduragi: I hear you, I really did find Mysterio's Lynch without waiting for a claim from shotty scummy and I think I should have really went with that investigation first. However, Chimp Pants targetted me my first game because of my voting style and I was honestly thinking he would do the same this game. I wanted to clear his name so I wasn't watching my back around him like I was last game.

Leech: I think you are a good player, and will definately take on your suggestions for next time. It is all still a learning experience for sure and I am happy to be around good players. completely understand what you are saying about using Meta to look for scum tells, and looking at meta for post styles.

As for the randomstar. Jeezus we did get lucky with it. It's unfortunate that we had to leave it up to the fate of randomstar.

will be signing up again to play at some point and hope to play with you guys again soon!