Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Kirbyoshi]

/confirm

@Hindu: That's ok. I do that all the time. Not for the sake of misspellings, but just for ease.

[Kirbyoshi]

Basically: if I can't read it you can't post it.

And if you go blind???

[Kirbyoshi]

@Gabrico & Steppen: Could you guys get avys? It really helps sorting out who's who, and when scanning for posts. Thanks!

[Kirbyoshi]

OOO, drow...horny as ever?

[Kirbyoshi]

Hmmm...

Sorry I didn't get to post sooner, uber-busy weekend. Thoughts on people, while trying to avoid a WoT (@whoever asked: Wall of Text; pretty self-explanatory from there):

Brod is town
Mysterio is newbie/VI town
star is town, but I'd like to hear more
Need to hear more from Illume
steppen and Thian are neutral
Leech and Hindu are my top suspicions at this point. However, I am prone to thinking aggression is a scumtell (it is not), and Leech is showing the most aggression out of anyone so far. He is also posting more than Hindu, which means that if he is town, he can offer more useful advice than Hindu can later on, and if he's scum, there's a greater chance that he will slip up, and then I can just switch my vote.

Vote: Hinduragi

Reasoning coming later.

[Kirbyoshi]

Because, in my experience, newbtown is more likely to go on the defensive, and newbscum is more likely to retreat into their shells, so to speak. He is playing kind of off, but he's not posting one-liners and lurking like I'd expect from newbscum.

[Kirbyoshi]

@star: Yeah, I looked back, and my reads really are mostly gut. I was expecting to find a wealth of info against Hindu, but I found virtually nothing. Kind of disappointing. Nothing much on others either, so I'm gonna stay with my gut for now.

The walls of text still need to subside, and the activity level needs to go up. I bet no one even realized I was on V/LA. We need more frequent, shorter posts.

[Kirbyoshi]

@Hindu: Like I told star, my reads at this point are mostly gut. The WoT's make me wanna go and puke out my innards, and they ultimately prove very little. Let's get some actual discussion going, and get everyone posting good stuff, instead of posting the same opinions over and over. And the thing about letting scum know who to NK is WIFOM and a theory point.

@Brod: Sorry, but it's really nothing more than a vibe at this point. Later in the Day, I will notice more, and I may find out that my vibe was totally off. But for now, I have nothing stronger on anyone than my gut read on Hindu.

[Kirbyoshi]

I'm trying to do something to help the situation by simply not contributing to one of the major flaws of this game (the amount of WoT's), and by expressing my disdain for another (inactivity). I also think that people not putting their vote where their biggest suspicion lies is a flaw, but that's theory discussion.

[Kirbyoshi]

Thian, the Walls of Text are extremely hard to read, and dominate the thread. Since I want to hear more from people like you (Thian), Brod, steppen, etc., I don't want WoT's by people like Myst and Leech to make you more delayed in posting.

[Kirbyoshi]

Forgive me for answering a question, with a question, but why did you ask about star in particular?

[Kirbyoshi]

Well, do you think we're far enough into the game that voting on gut shouldn't happen?

[Kirbyoshi]

I agree that we are out of RVS, but do you think

enough

analysis has been going on to thoroughly explain every vote without sounding stupid or scummy? Think about it before you answer.

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you didn't think before you post, I was just making sure that you didn't post something like "lol yes, we're on page 6".

I'm not really sure I have a pinpoint-able voting style. I generally don't like not having my vote on anyone, and I try to provide reasoning when I think it's there. I think I also piggyback more than the average player should, which is something I'm working on.

[Kirbyoshi]

Where is Illume?
Where is steppen?

I just realized that the person with the most posts in the thread isn't Leech or Myst. It's Thian.

@Thian: Who are your top 3 scum reads?

[Kirbyoshi]

@Brod's 141: Any given town member's only public weapon in this game is his vote. It's useless to not be voting.

I've come to the conclusion that Illume and Steppen have died irl. Sad day.

[Kirbyoshi]

At this moment, yes. I don't find anything scummy enough to change my vote, so if I were to determine the lynch for toDay, I wouldn't change my vote. However, I do not determine the lynch by myself. Notice I haven't been pressing for people to wagon on Hindu. He's still my best bet for scum, but Illume and Steppen haven't been giving me much to work with.

[Kirbyoshi]

Brod, if you read Thian's posts carefully, he's basically saying what I've been trying to say. One vote on a person isn't dangerous. Two votes on a person isn't dangerous. Hindu is in no danger of being lynched right now because I'm the only one voting him, and I'm not pushing for a wagon. If I see something worthy of changing my vote, I'll change it.

[Kirbyoshi]

Two votes, even in a 9-person game, isn't exactly a wagon, Brod, and more often than not in a Newbie game, there is 3 votes on the same person just from RVS. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Kirbyoshi]

@Leech: My answer is that Hinduragi was the first person that struck me as scummy. This game is hard to get reads on, since

nearly

everyone has been lurking at some point or another. Therefore, I haven't been able to deduce a better reason to vote anyone. I'm not pushing for Hindu's lynch because I don't have enough on him yet to call him scum, just that he's the most suspicious one so far.

@Leech as well: Is disrespect scummy?

[Kirbyoshi]

Welcome CP. Your posts are amazing.

[Kirbyoshi]

drmy, you may have horrible spelling, but you explained something I couldn't quite put my finger on. The reason I did not find anything on Hindu was because I hardly found anything FROM Hindu. He's been here for most of the game, but he's just been popping in every so often, and not alot of content to speak of.

[Kirbyoshi]

Shotty, this is a sort of obvious statement. Not that I am picking this out to be a scummy thing to say but you really haven't picked a side in which you feel he is. anyone could say person A is town but also could be scum.

Actually, he also used the "Too Townie" fallacy. Look it up on the wiki. Scum doesn't "overdo" towniness.

[Kirbyoshi]

And Thian, the part of your post directed to Brod makes my head spin. Did you inadvertently post one point twice? Am I seeing double? What's going on here?

[Kirbyoshi]

Thian: The "Too Townie" fallacy basically says that there will never be a time when a player is too pro-town to be town. You can argue that that player's towniness is contrived, but you need evidence for that. As for how you made my head spin...

At the time you were giong to vote for Mysterio in RVS for what you considered an acceptable reason and you AT the time thought it was RVS but didn't vote for mysterio.

i understand that currently you don't think it is a strong enough vote outside of RVS which is fine. however you stated at the time you were going to vote for mysterio for posting first but didn't want to pile votes on during RVS

by you stating that you didn't want to pile votes on during RVS means you thought AT the time it was RVS which you stated it would be acceptable to vote for Mysterio.

This just seems to me like you're saying the same thing over and over. It isn't the harping that Mysterio apparently finds so scummy, but it's kinda confusing.

[Kirbyoshi]

[quote=shotty]either he is Obv Town, or he is over doing it because he is scum.[/quote] Here.

[Kirbyoshi]

Um, yeah, shotty's first post wasn't bad. His play since then has been.

Unvote Hindu, Vote: drmyshottyizsik

[Kirbyoshi]

L-2 I think.

[Kirbyoshi]

Shotty: What do you think of Brod?

[Kirbyoshi]

Not to scummy, sorry for no long explaination. I shattered my foot and will have limitted acess until my surgery

Wow, that like really sucks, for real. Don't rush yourself, but I'd like an explanation of why he's not scummy before you're lynched. Also, I had a point to that question, but I lost it. I'll look for it and post it when you post your answer.

[Kirbyoshi]

Only mafia wants people to only vote when they are 100% sure, that way the game goes no where and there is no pressure on the scum.

right now I don't think I'll vote for anyone until I'd want everyone to vote for that person too.

Out of curiosity shotty, what does the latter quote mean to you in terms of Brod's scumminess?

[Kirbyoshi]

@everyone: Who is most likely to be scum if shotty flips town? What if he flips scum?

[Kirbyoshi]

@Myst: How many games have you completed (aka been killed, lynched, or survived to endgame) in?

[Kirbyoshi]

Then why are you talking about them?

[Kirbyoshi]

My point is, why are you talking about ongoing games? Especially when you haven't died in any of them? shotty is VI, so as town or as scum, he will say some off-the-wall things. Best thing to do, is when he says something stupid, ignore it.

[Kirbyoshi]

Hindu: I will tomorrow. Promise.

[Kirbyoshi]

Because, honestly, I've played horribly so far this game. I've kind of had a shotgun mentality, which works for some people, but not for me. I'll be more pointed toMorrow.

[Kirbyoshi]

Caution is not a scumtell.
VOTE: Chimp Pants
Case coming when I feel less like I'm about to die.

[Kirbyoshi]

Thian: *facepalm* I totally meant irl. I am dead tired. Like, I forgot how amazingly tired college can make you. Just getting back into the swing of things.

[Kirbyoshi]

@mod: Could we get some prods on Leech, star, and Brod?

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry, I've been REALLY swamped, especially for it being the first week or 2 of school. Post coming tonight.

[Kirbyoshi]

Ugh, I'm sorry too. I'm not sure why, but I'm having trouble getting into this game. I'll try to post more often. Sorry again.

[Kirbyoshi]

So, about why CP...

I simply had a vibe, then I went back and examined Hindu's voting pattern. The only thing I saw on anybody from that is that Hindu voted for Chimp for what at first was no reason. He then went back and justified it by saying that he was "waiting for someone to say Chimp Pants was obvtown." This was Hindu's only vote that was even mildly serious. The only possible explanation would be that Hindu had a hunch that CP was scum, so he voted him, Chimp thought it was too risky, so he killed Hindu.

[Kirbyoshi]

No, he didn't call you obvtown. He said he was

waiting

for someone

else

to call you obvtown. Looking for buddies. He had a simple hunch, nothing solid, went fishing on it, and came back with seemingly nothing. I don't think it was nothing. I think there might have been something there.

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow, Vel's really good with those prods. Rereading cases now.

[Kirbyoshi]

6-20 are all either fluff, fence sitting, IIoA, or complaining. There is literally no scumhunting in any of these posts. That is a frightening portion of your game to have, almost literally, done nothing.

Erm, could you pull out specific posts? Not everything in that range is doing those things.

21: You parrot and pretty much say "that's what I was thinking" when the topic was "Active Lurking" which is a concept you should not be unfamiliar with. You specifically stated you were "trying to put your finger on" it, yet you shouldn't have had a hard time figuring that out if you were actually paying attention. Your reaction here shows me that you aren't really scumhunting. You are parroting.

So I couldn't put a name to what Hindu was doing that was scummy. Am I scummy for that? Or did I just forget the name for a scumtell?

22- IIoA, again.

Wrong. Pointing out a fallacy.

23- Fluff, again.

Wrong. Asking clarification.

29- Appeal to emotion with shotty, then you actually have the balls to ask him for explanation when you've not given any, yourself, this entire game.

Sympathy is not AtE. Also, the game of Mafia takes balls. If you have none, you should not sign up for a game.

This is almost the scummiest question you can ask near the end of a day phase. Keep in mind, if Kirby is scum, the second question is worthless. There is absolutely no reason for town to ask this question, at this time, period. The reason this question would be asked, is either for scum to keep around the scummiest player, or kill them for wifom. The only question that is scummier than that is: "So, guys, who should I kill?"

Or I was trying to generate discussion.

32- Fluffy pointless question that has absolutely no trace of scumhunting

I was trying to get a feel for his experience level. How could you not see that?

[Kirbyoshi]

Leech, I have a feeling that alot of those points are going to turn into a "NO U" type of argument. I will respond to the ones that need a response though:

2. Forgetfulness is not a scumtell.
3. I was pointing out a fallacy so Newbies stay away from it. It's a very easy fallacy to commit as town.
4. You obviously did not read the context. One of Thian's posts confused me, so I asked him what it meant. Heck, that context is even in the same post. How did you miss it?
7. Why would I focus on something that's detrimental to the game? You're not making sense. And yes, I do view things through a different perspective depending on the experience level of the player.

[Kirbyoshi]

Unvote CP, Vote: Mysterio

Pretty much everyone has called him out on why Thian is scummy for not unvoting drow. Now I'm demanding a response.

@Myst: Why is he more scummy for not unvoting drow?

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow. I actually put a vote behind my suspicion of Mysterio, which is something no one has had the guts to do Day 2, and I get put at L-1 for it? Good job people. Especially town, you guys are amazing. [/sarcasm]

Anyway, claim time I guess, since if I don't, I'll probably be lynched. I'm the Doc. I protected star last Night.

Mysterio still needs to answer my question, and Leech needs to stop tunneling so much.

[Kirbyoshi]

I really am sorry. If you had checked my profile before my claim post you'd see that I had honestly just not been checking the site. Again, I apologize, and it will not happen again.

[Kirbyoshi]

We need to lynch Mysterio. I am becoming increasingly sure that he is scum.