Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Kalimar]

Thian, your last post was just bad. If you want to question something, go ahead and do it. I also don't get why Chimp Pants is the only person you want to talk to, but considering you've said you're drunk it's probably best not to delve too deep into what you just posted.

Nevertheless. Whilst there is enough of a case to lynch you, I can see the possibility you are town.
Generally there are two sides to the coin, and mafia is rarely a game of absolutes. I'm failing to see Kirbyoshi's actions in a townie light. Their fos have been weak reasoned, they ignored the aspects in my post completely, and they have, at least what it looks to me, actively lurked.
I feel my vote is best placed here for now.

vote Kirbyoshi

.

[Chimp Pants]

UNVOTE: Thian
VOTE: Kirbyoshi

That's L-1.

Kirby's reasons for voting for Thian don't seem genuine and seem opportunistic.

[Chimp Pants]

EBWOP: That doesn't make any sense.... The vote stays, but I combined a couple thoughts into one mess of confusion.

Kirby's vote for

Mysterio

doesn't seem genuine.

[Mysterio]

@Chimp Pants, what happened to your scum read on Thian? You're accusing Kirby of being opportunistic, but you're doing the same exact thing by jumping on his wagon.

@Kirby, your vote was just plain stupid. What specifically about Chimp Pants' question do you believe hasn't been answered, and why does it make me scummy? I've laid out my reasoning for voting Thian multiple times, which you haven't even bothered addressing before your vote on me.

[Thian]

well that was fun.

Mysterio: what is your facination of accusing chimp pants of "being opportunistic" were you not on an opportunistic lynch yourself? so if you are going to start questioning people down that route start answering your question with why you were opportunistic by putting your name down on shotty.

[Leech]

Mysterio: what is your facination of accusing chimp pants of "being opportunistic" were you not on an opportunistic lynch yourself?

I don't think you fully grasp the concept of an opportunistic vote. From how you're describing it, any one that votes on the lynching wagon is an opportunistic voter, that's wrong. Considering Mysterio hammered, that is anything but opportunistic as well. I'd consider an L-1 vote with little reasoning opportunistic, not the hammer. You've also accused me of this, so I don't think you actually understand the term. You want to see an

actual

opportunistic vote?

Um, yeah, shotty's first post wasn't bad. His play since then has been.
Unvote Hindu, Vote: drmyshottyizsik

Vote on a wagon that has steam without adding anything to the discussion. That is what an opportunistic vote looks like.

[Chimp Pants]

You're accusing Kirby of being opportunistic

@ Mysterio: That's what I wrote, but not what I meant to write. You'll notice that in that post I also said that Kirby had a vote on Thian which isn't true. Instead of carefully proofreading my post like I usually do, I spent that time making sure I hadn't missed a vote on Kirby (I didn't want to accidentally hammer). I put together 2 unrelated thought into 1 sentence. My mistake and I apologize for any confusion I caused.


Neither of Kirby's D2 votes make sense to me. I mostly ignored the vote for me at the time. I didn't want to make the mistake of equating being wrong with being scummy. I absolutely don't understand Kirby's reason for voting for Mysterio.

@Thian: Are you trying to link yourself to me in case you're lynched? You've tended to be quick to jump to my defense.

@Mysterio again: You really haven't answered the question. How would Thian unvoting Drowmage make him less scummy in your eyes?

[Thian]

Leech: opportunistic I believed how mysterio was meaning it is, putting a vote on someone which will not cause too much ripple of questioning. Mysterio has accused me of doing that on shotty d-1. did he not have his vote there as well? did you not have your vote there as well too? did kirbyoshi? yes we all did. So I believe, before mysterio starts flinging around the "you are being opportunistic" arguement he needs to look at his own actions. he specifically said that my vote was opportunistic in post 369. I may be honestly mistaken on how he means it you are right, but as of right now that is what I believe he meant.

chimp: should I not jump to your defense?

[Chimp Pants]

chimp: should I not jump to your defense?

@Thian: That depends on if you're scum. I find it telling that you're not denying it. Now I just have to figure out what that means...

Where do you currently stand on Kirby?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Looking for a replacement for startransmission.



Official Vote Count

Thian - 1 (Mysterio)
Kirbyoshi - 3 (Leech, Kalimar, Chimp Pants)
Mysterio - 2 (Thian, Kirbyoshi)

Not Voting - 1 (startransmission)

4 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[Kalimar]

Well, Kirby really needs to come in here and start talking. We aren't going to have time to discuss the claim properly if he doesn't. We must avoid no-lynching, so hopefully someone will be available to hammer on Wednesday if this does not progress.

I'm also looking forward to startransmission's replacement, as that spot has been 'invisible' this game.
Thian's behaviour regards to Chimp could be 'buddying'. I'm not sure why Thian seems to regard Chimp more than everyone else, at any rate.

[Thian]

chimp: I didn't like his vote on you, that is for certain. His explanation afterwards is horrid after he came around as to why he was voting for you. Leech took over from there on questioning him for the most part of the day. So really i would be regurgitating information that we all ready know, which is the avoidance of points made against him. I did two re-reads on him over the past day or two, quick re-reads of course. For the most part I found a lot of asking where people are, why aren't they posting, but he's not posting content himself. So kirbyoshi, are you fearful of typing anything?
I am willing to hammer at this point but honestly not before a claim is made. the day needs a lynch. so deadline is the 16th and I am prepared. If mysterio wants to go lynch another person due to himself being impatient to not wait for a lynch, that would be fine too.

[Thian]

Kalimar: what is alluring you to my buddying with chimp? has something peeked your curiosity? would you want me to buddy up and latch on to you instead?

[Mysterio]

@Mysterio again: You really haven't answered the question. How would Thian unvoting Drowmage make him less scummy in your eyes?

...

Quoting the specific parts now because you clearly can't be bothered to read people's posts:

However, you kept your vote on a non-existent player for the entire game

until Shotty came in late in the game and gave you an easy target.

That is suspicious.

^Opportunistic.

Nothing about Day 1 should have stopped you from placing votes, nor does it explain why you kept your RVS vote on a player that wasn't in the game. You didn't even bother unvoting,

which says to me you never had any intention of voting until Shotty came around and gave you an easy target to finally vote for

.

^Opportunistic, again.

My reasoning is that Star and Brod were consistent with their non-voting,

whereas Thain switched his vote to Shotty for an easy lynch. His vote seems opportunistic to me

, beyond the somewhat equal lack of voting by all three of them.

^ Opportunistic, once again.

You finally switched your vote from a player that wasn't in the game to Shotty

who was a total VI. That's not scumhunting

and it doesn't get you off the hook.

^ Opportunistic for the 4th time, along with lack of scumhunting which I stated earlier in a previous post.

So, I stated my reasoning

FOUR TIMES

, and that only includes the opportunistic case. The lack of scumhunting point was also mentioned multiple times. My reasoning boils down to the fact that Thian did not scumhunt in the slightest by keeping his vote on a non-existent player, only to switch his vote for an easy VI policy lynch.

I'll state my reasoning for the 5th time: Thian is scummy due to lack of scumhunting and an opportunistic vote on Shotty.

Do not ask me this question again.

As for Kirby, I will drop the hammer before the deadline. I'm not sure if he's trying to wait it out, but that won't happen. @Kirby, respond please.

[Thian]

Mysterio, why are you so upset for having to answer a question. If you are not guilty, it shouldn't be a problem answering the same question a few times.

You state part of scum hunting is putting a vote. Part of scum hunting is also questioning. Putting two together is what consists of full on scum hunting? That is your method. Is your method wrong? no, it is just different from mine. So you are trying to base my guilt on "ideals" to what scum hunting is?

Thats not scum hunting, thats making someone look guilty because they don't follow by your rules.

Mysterio why do you insist on dropping hammers before deadline without waiting for claims? I really do find that curious. It is funny how you have tunnelled in on me, and are now ready to hammer kirby.

Who matters more to you to have lynched? It seems it doesn't matter, either way is good for you as long as someone is being lynched? Do you honestly find kirbyoshi scummy? What happened to your FOS on startransmission ((yes I know he is being replaced)) but you did have an opinion about him before.

[Thian]

and speaking of easy targets mysterio, would kirbyoshi be considered an easy target to pick off since leech did all the legwork in questioning him and you spent your time on me?

[Chimp Pants]

Quoting the specific parts now because you clearly can't be bothered to read people's posts:

Have you bothered to read my question? You're answering a different question,

not

what I'm asking.

Do not ask me this question again.

@Mysterio: I think I will ask it again.... I think we're talking past each other a bit. I'm not asking for your case on Thian. I'm asking a specific question which isn't being addressed.

During RVS Thian voted for Drowmage. When this was pointed out to him, Thian made a comment about not posting after coming back from a bar. Had he accompanied that comment with an unvote, how would that have changed anything you mentioned in Post 413? How would Thian unvoting when his non-vote was pointed out change your perceptions of Thian's play? You mentioned multiple times that Thian failing to unvote plays a role in his scumminess.

Consider it this way. If instead of writing this:

Note to self: Don't post when coming home after the bar.

he had wrtten this:

Note to self: Don't post when coming home after the bar. Unvote:Drowmage

What would be different? How would that be less scummy?

[Leech]

My reasoning boils down to the fact that Thian did not scumhunt in the slightest by keeping his vote on a non-existent player, only to switch his vote for an easy VI policy lynch.

Voting and scumhunting aren't exactly the same. I have strict policies in how I vote, which has nothing to do with my scumhunting. My vote comes from my hunting, not the other way around. I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I figured I'd point that out. I'm not sure how "fair" your case is on that specific subject.

Mysterio, why are you so upset for having to answer a question. If you are not guilty, it shouldn't be a problem answering the same question a few times.

What? That doesn't make sense. The question you're asking is in relation to your vote for Drow, how would that in any way make Mysterio look scummy? Not answering a question that's been answered multiple times isn't a scum tell, it's an annoyance tell. In any event, how can your action apply guilt to another player in this game? He's guilty for you not unvoting? What?

You state part of scum hunting is putting a vote. Part of scum hunting is also questioning. Putting two together is what consists of full on scum hunting? That is your method.

Is your method wrong? no, it is just different from mine.

So you are trying to base my guilt on "ideals" to what scum hunting is?

Thats not scum hunting, thats making someone look guilty because they don't follow by your rules.

The bold and the italic are two polar opposite points. First you say that his method isn't wrong, then you try to use that as an attack against him with the bold. It's odd how you can acknowledge the difference in mentalities behind differing methods of scumhunting, then try to twist it in to a scummy picture immediately after doing so. That seriously reads as "Our methods are just different! ... But you're scummy for doing it this way." Not liking that.

Mysterio why do you insist on dropping hammers before deadline without waiting for claims?

Misrep. More than enough time has gone by for Kirby to claim. If I wasn't already voting Kirby, I'd hammer right now. You're acting like he's rushing a lynch to prevent a claim, when kirby hasn't posted in days. Realistically, someone should hammer if they feel that enough information has been gained to end this phase.

It is funny how you have tunnelled in on me, and are now ready to hammer kirby.

I do this a lot on both alignments, actually (Mainly due to trying to play up to my town meta while scum, though). Watching a case built on one person, while pressuring enother isn't scummy. More information is gained from doing so, actually. How is this, in any way, scummy?

Who matters more to you to have lynched? It seems it doesn't matter, either way is good for you as long as someone is being lynched?

How do questions like that benefit the town, at all? Seriously, if Mysterio is scum, what response are you looking for here? No one is going to say: "I don't care who's lynched." so that's just pointless speculation that is actually distracting from asking the ones that truly matter. You are making yourself look extremely manipulative and missreppy in your posts. Neither of which are good.

and speaking of easy targets mysterio, would kirbyoshi be considered an easy target to pick off since leech did all the legwork in questioning him and you spent your time on me?

Considering you said I did "All the leg work" you are indirectly implying that I built up a strong case. You then immediately follow that up with a statement that would make him look scummy for going along with it. This is building a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Why are you trying to set it up so he looks scummy no matter how he answers? That's not a town mentality to have. While I maintain that you should always be suspicious, as that's the only way to win, you should not try to trap anyone in a box where the only exits result in them appearing scummy. That will only lead to mislynches.

Definite

Fos: Thian

You are looking scummier every time you post. You could just as easily be a townie reading too much into the wrong things, so I'm leaving my vote on the guy that will most likely, actually, flip scum.

[Kalimar]

Kalimar: what is alluring you to my buddying with chimp? has something peeked your curiosity? would you want me to buddy up and latch on to you instead?

The reason the buddying (which, concerningly you haven't denied) is relevant because:

Town's primary aim is to kill scum
Secondary aim not to be lynched

Maf's primary aim is not to be lynched.

Buddying is a form of appealing to a player's good nature and thus is supposed to be a way of keeping you from being lynched. Thus it can be debated more scum behaviour than town.

Thus, what you've just posted is scummy. Unless someone is categorically confirmed, even if you don't think someone is scum be critical of everyone. Latching onto anyone isn't helpful behaviour.

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow. I actually put a vote behind my suspicion of Mysterio, which is something no one has had the guts to do Day 2, and I get put at L-1 for it? Good job people. Especially town, you guys are amazing. [/sarcasm]

Anyway, claim time I guess, since if I don't, I'll probably be lynched. I'm the Doc. I protected star last Night.

Mysterio still needs to answer my question, and Leech needs to stop tunneling so much.

[Thian]

leech are you defending mysterio? was that debate between you and mysterio at the beginning a way to distance yourself from each other?

kalimar point taken.

Kirbyoshi. why did you leave this so late there is pretty much only a day left.

[Kirbyoshi]

I really am sorry. If you had checked my profile before my claim post you'd see that I had honestly just not been checking the site. Again, I apologize, and it will not happen again.

[Thian]

The problem is, with mysterio. He has tunnelled in on the fact that I voted someone who posted in a game that they were not playing. I made an error, simply put.

He blows it out of proportion based on his ideals first. So because I am not following his rules for scum hunting, ((Voting on someone who I am predominantly questioning)) does that give him legitimate case? In my opinion, no. It doesn't.

What I believe he is accusing me of is this.
I vote drowmage ((someone not in he game who should not really have been posting in the first place in this thread))
I was called out on it and advised everyone it was an error. Really, it was.
I start questioning trachimbrod on trachimbrod's policies without voting him or bolding an FOS on him. ((which the FOS really is needless in my opinion))
Then shotty comes in and I find more reason to put my vote on Shotty than to continue my conversation with Trachimbrod. However because I didn't bold FOS, or Vote against Trachimbrod that makes me guilty? Come on, how many people have questioned another person yet voted someone else in this game?

Mysterio's arguement is weak, really weak. I may not be the best at debating or arguing with people who have strong opinions, and my thoughts do tend to go all over the place and are disorganized, but when I feel that someone is trying to make me look guilty based on all of the above, what reason would I have to change my vote? About the only reason is to avoid a "no lynch".

to top it off, he really has ignored Chimp Pants several request for a proper answer along with Kirbyoshi asking as well. Then he got frusterated and answered it incorrectly, by calling me opportunistic ((which seems to be the theme of this game from his point of view)). It wasn't a question about being opportunistic at all.

Kirbyoshi has given quite the run of suspicion, but now we have something to really consider, is it best interest to lynch and test the claim ?

[Thian]

Mysterio also in your post where you vote me. You say
"Lack of participation shouldn't stop you from pressuring and analyzing posts, it simply means your votes will probably be limited to the people actively playing." This is just so wrong Mysterio. Reason below.

Lack of participation is a deterrant to PROPERLY scum hunt. If my selection of people are limited to the only ones who are active, that means I am only questioning those who have given something to analyze. If those people who have contributed content to analyze are mainly composed of town, then chances are there will be more town on town arguements. Which is not good. Town will start picking apart other town until they begin to see flaws and accuse each other of being scum. It seems to me you don't really care about the activity levels, even if it limits you on the people you can question.

[Chimp Pants]

The deadline is today. Someone needs to hammer now.