Mini #1007 (Game Over)


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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:26 am

Post by Elleran »

Hoopla wrote:Elleran, can you briefly summarise why you were lynched Day 1, as town in Newbie 957?
I was lynched for making mistakes (apparently). It was my first game ever on this forum (and online) so I was more prone to making mistakes and looking extra scummy.

Although I made some mistakes, I think the town's reaction was too big. In the end of that game, had I been still in, I would have hammered correctly. I just played badly in the beginning simply due to my inexperience.

Why did you bring this up?
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:41 am

Post by AlmasterGM »

gonnano wrote:I would much rather proceed with the Elleran lynch and discuss G&H more during Day 2.
I dislike these cryptic promises of future information.
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:32 am

Post by gonnano »

It's just that it's so late in the Day that I don't feel we've had a chance to discuss G&H's actions very much.
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:44 am

Post by Hoopla »

gonnano wrote:It's just that it's so late in the Day that I don't feel we've had a chance to discuss G&H's actions very much.
Lynching him finishes the massclaim. :wink:

If he flips non-protective role, Shotty is a town doctor, and scum have to either deal with him (roleblock or kill), or leave him alive (for whatever reason) and hope he doesn't make a save.

If G&H flips a protective role, Shotty is scum, and yay, we get a free scumlynch tomorrow.
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:20 am

Post by Kid Know Nothing »

AGar wrote:
AlmasterGM wrote:
Kid Know Nothing wrote:I'm not defending. I'm calling you out on your misrepresentation.
Ok.

Where's the misrep?
I'd like to echo this sentiment.

If someone is making contradictory, tunneling, flawed scumhunting, is it really scumhunting? I believe it's moreso likely to be from scum who are trying to make the appearance of scumhunting to avoid being accused of lurking or middling. Note that Elleran's entire vote-history is thus:

1) Hoopla for unclaiming PGO and him feeling that one previous game in which I replaced out of with Hoopla gave us uber psychic powers. (Would be cool, I'd love to psycho-communicate with Hoopla during games sometimes lol)

Unvoted shortly thereafter.

He hasn't cast a vote since.
I didn't say he was hunting well or in a way that was beneficial. But saying that he has done no hunting at all
is
a misrepresentation. Do I think that Elleran's logic makes any sense? Not really. But to me, when someone says that someone hasn't been scumhunting, it means they haven't been contributing. Instead of attacking the weak points that Elleran has made, gonnano made a false attack to seem like he was adding something new to the case.
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Post Post #330 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:01 pm

Post by gonnano »

Wait, what? Can someone point me to my false attack? I voted Elleran after he did that "It was a typo, it was supposed to read like this... no wait I mean like this" thing.

I want to say again that a protection role claim doesn't break G&H's playstyle, so the massclaim should be completed in the normal way. I'll explain that here for G&H to read:
Someone who will not lie can't respond to questions like "are you scum?" because then the games where they are scum would be broken. Basically, if the question has no way for scum-G&H to answer honestly and without ruining the game, then the question won't be answered, regardless of what alignment G&H actually has. The doc/not doc question DOES have an acceptable way for scum-G&H to answer honestly, because claiming "not doc" doesn't confirm alignment. Therefore G&H should answer the question.

If he/she doesn't do so in his/her next post, I want to discuss this a little more. If the question gets answered, the point is moot and we should green-light the Elleran lynch.
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Post Post #331 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:18 pm

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

:P

I spent 4 hours in between working today making a comment post and apparently it didn't post. I'll see if it can be retrieved off my laptop tomorrow because I don't think I can retype it all without missing stuff.

The most important point I want to make is that I feel that AGM's explanation makes sense to me and consequently I am removing my vote. I don't like Elleran's posting at all and I am willing to vote for him when we get closer to deadline. But I won't do so now as Hoopla unvoted to keep discussion going and to prevent an accidental hammer (which I agree with doing).
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Post Post #332 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:20 pm

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Oh, and I don't agree with derailing the Elleran wagon just to get G&H to participate. It's too late in the day and an Elleran lynch will give us much more information than a G&H lynch will.
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Post Post #333 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:10 pm

Post by drmyshottyizsik »

Listen to him he herds noobies!!!
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Post Post #334 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Post by redtail896 »

I also would rather lynch Elleran. Not responding to the massclaim, while annoying, is not a scumtell. Elleran has displayed actual scummy behavior. We are very close to deadline. I'd rather lynch G&H tomorrow if at all. Tomorrow, I'm happy to discuss anybody and everybody that you want. But with deadline in less than 24 hours (as I understand it), I feel that we are stuck with Elleran as the lynch. I don't consider this a negative at all.
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Post Post #335 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:30 pm

Post by AGar »

*shows hand*

#324 - More fence-sitting and middling for Elleran. Nice.

....


....

Something clicked. We should definitely move to lynching G&H. Gonnano, what's your objection to lynching G&H? Because I think that G&H's objection to claiming is because he knew he wouldn't be able to gain anything at this point from a false-claim as scum. Redtail's last post triggered this line of thought. I don't buy any player that says "I don't lie" in a game of mafia. It's crap. Complete and utter bullsnot. G&H has insisted that he believes drmyshottyizsik is a VT claiming doc. If he buys into Hoopla's stats (which it appears he did), then he knows there is only a 14% chance that there is no protective powerrole. Which means if picked earlier, he could've fabricated a false-claim and maybe drawn out a pro-town PR with a counter-claim. If we're in 9:3, it's not a bad trade, especially if the PR is a weak doc or something of that variety. By being forced into the last position, G&H has nothing to gain with a false-claim at this point - either drmyshottyizsik is a protective PR, or we're in that 14% category. No other player was drawn out into a claim, and G&H wasn't able to extract any kind of counter-claim. I expect some bogus reason that could've been brought up when the massclaim was initially being discussed to be G&H's reasoning.

EBWONinjaPreview: Redtail - why do you think refusing to massclaim and not bringing reasoning up earlier is not scummy?
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Post Post #336 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:34 pm

Post by AGar »

Oh wow, I missed the entire 14th page. Fail.

Although there's not much for me to address, just read.

KKN - Contributing is relative to the eye of the beholder then.
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Post Post #337 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:43 pm

Post by redtail896 »

AGar wrote:EBWONinjaPreview: Redtail - why do you think refusing to massclaim and not bringing reasoning up earlier is not scummy?
If G&H wanted to pull the scheme you just described, then s/he could and would have done so. Before we jumped to the popcorn scheme, people were simply claiming out of the blue if they agreed with the idea (for example, me). At this point, it would've been the easiest thing in the world for G&H to simply roleclaim doc, and the whole thing would've gone to hell. But it didn't happen.

At this point, it would be simple for G&H the scum to simply say, not a doc. That scheme you described wasn't necessary, and if s/he had just claimed not PR we would've gone our merry way to lynch Elleran. Why, as scum, would G&H have done this? Why call attention to oneself like that? It's just unnecessary, and can achieve no significant purpose as scum other than to get oneself lynched. I think G&H should've raised any objections 3 or 4 pages ago (when s/he was clearly posting) and that waiting this long is bordering on rude, but I don't think it's scummy.
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Post Post #338 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:58 pm

Post by gonnano »

AGar's argument against G&H is just a little bit too farfetched. I find it hard to believe that an experienced player like him would fail to see the obvious scum exit that redtail just described, which is even consistent with G&H's "bullsnot" playstyle. I will most likely be pushing for an AGar lynch on Day 2.
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Post Post #339 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:31 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

KNK wrote:I didn't say he was hunting well or in a way that was beneficial. But saying that he has done no hunting at all isa misrepresentation. Do I think that Elleran's logic makes any sense? Not really. But to me, when someone says that someone hasn't been scumhunting, it means they haven't been contributing. Instead of attacking the weak points that Elleran has made, gonnano made a false attack to seem like he was adding something new to the case.
Goooo semantics. Even using your definitions, he hasn't contributed anything for over a week at this point, and if you just use a general definition, I was completely accurate because even what he did "contribute" was pretty awful.

What I don't like is that you keep saying I'm "misrep-ing," which puts awful negative and offensive connotations onto an argument that is, at the core, just semantics.
shotty wrote:Listen to him he herds noobies!!!
Just because you are probably town doesn't give you a license to be useless the rest of the game.

I am pretty indifferent to lynching G&H vs Elleren. However, if we are going to move the wagon, it has to happen soon. Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't think we have claims from Elleran or G&H, so the amount of time left to do something right now AND leave space for contingencies is REALLY small.
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Post Post #340 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Elleran »

First, I refuse to acknowledge that my 'fencesitting' is a scummy behavior. I am simply studying the game and I haven't found anyone to sooo suspicious that he must be lynched. I believe that I have not done anything scummy.

However, it seems that the town is strongly geared into a wagon against me. Since the most of the town thinks that I am scum, I will not offer any resistance. No dirty WIFOMS or fakeclaims. No pointing fingers. I see that it is my time to die, and my death is a pro-town move.

I claim VT.

Let is be done.
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Post Post #341 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:07 pm

Post by drmyshottyizsik »

Tsk Tsk Tsk so nervous. You are scum just admit it
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Post Post #342 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by Elleran »

Nope, sorry. Not scum here.
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Post Post #343 (ISO) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by drmyshottyizsik »

And why should we believe you?
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Post Post #344 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:46 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Elleran wrote:First, I refuse to acknowledge that my 'fencesitting' is a scummy behavior. I am simply studying the game and I haven't found anyone to sooo suspicious that he must be lynched. I believe that I have not done anything scummy.

However, it seems that the town is strongly geared into a wagon against me. Since the most of the town thinks that I am scum, I will not offer any resistance. No dirty WIFOMS or fakeclaims. No pointing fingers. I see that it is my time to die, and my death is a pro-town move.

I claim VT.

Let is be done.

This is atrocious. we've been at this for almost 2 weeks and you don't have ANY suspicions worthy of lynching? You do know how to play this game, correct? The only way Town lynches scum on Day 1 is if the Mafia screws up royally or we get extra super lucky, so not finding anyone who is "sooo supsicious that he must be lynched" is the norm. You have scummy people in mind? You go after them. If you don't like their answers to your questions, you vote for them. That's how this game is played. There's too many people in this game with this attitude (Looking at you G&H and KKN :igmeou: )

Gheez, I came here to get away from the Newbie queue for a while :cry:

Let's do this: we have just under 37 hours until deadline. Why don't you give us your top 3 with super awesome reasons WHY and that way we can have something to go on tomorrow. If you're as consigned to being lynched as a Town player as you claim you are, then HELP YOUR TEAM - the more info we have the better.
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Post Post #345 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:44 am

Post by AlmasterGM »

VRK wrote:Gheez, I came here to get away from the Newbie queue for a while :cry:
Man, if that's true, I feel bad for you, because this game is has more n00bs in it than the average newbie game. And the worst part is, unlike the newbie queue where they are trying to learn and improve, here people are just set on being anti town because they are dumb and think it's cool.

ANYWAY, we have very little time to shift this wagon and G&H posts very inconsistently, so I think we should just proceed with the Elleren lynch. It's not like we're really settling for less, or anything.
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Post Post #346 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:58 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

I really, REALLY want Elleran to get on here and give us a list before we lynch him. I'll be around tomorrow morning to add my vote before deadline.
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Post Post #347 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:12 am

Post by AGar »

gonnano wrote:AGar's argument against G&H is just a little bit too farfetched. I find it hard to believe that an experienced player like him would fail to see the obvious scum exit that redtail just described, which is even consistent with G&H's "bullsnot" playstyle. I will most likely be pushing for an AGar lynch on Day 2.
Mmm. I forgot that people had no fucking clue what a popcorn was, if that's the out you're referring to. If you're referring to him saying "I'm not a protective PR" then yes, it would be easy. But why the fuck else is he denying a reason to make a claim?

Also, nice job focusing on D2 before D1 is even done. Care to tell us who you're going to NK while you're at it?
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Post Post #348 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:26 am

Post by Elleran »

Okay, I will grant Vel's request.
VRK wrote:Let's do this: we have just under 37 hours until deadline. Why don't you give us your top 3 with super awesome reasons WHY and that way we can have something to go on tomorrow. If you're as consigned to being lynched as a Town player as you claim you are, then HELP YOUR TEAM - the more info we have the better.
My suspicion list:
1. Hoopla: Her claim has made me doubt her motives. I don't know what her real role is, but give the chance, I want to hammer Hoopla before she reaches LyLo.

2. G&H: Why don't you want to continue the claim? You didn't even continue the popcorn.

3. AGar: You seem to be the person most linked to Hoopla due to your early involvement in the game with her PGO claim. If Hoopla is scum, I think you are as well.

Vote Hoopla
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Post Post #349 (ISO) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:28 am

Post by AGar »

Summary of #348:

Suspicion 1: OMGUS

Suspicion 2: Not even reading the thread.

Suspicion 3: I am always scummy, I guess.
Ski mask? Check! Sawed off? Check! Guilty conscience, fear of death? Check! Check! Check!

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