Mafia 1013 - Prozacs Basic Theme - Game has ENDED
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llamaeatataco Goon
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Flameaxe Comma Police
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Unvote!
I'm not totally sold on buddying just yet, personally. I will however point out my current suspicion of fishy (not necessarily sold on raivann yet). You agree with such logic as "he had lots of smilieys in his post, therefore = sucking up to the town"? Seriously? Maybe it's just because I've known Blackberry for so long and have had many conversations with him over AIM that it seems absurd, but honestly, it just seems like a huge stretch to me. If anything, I see Berry's "random questions" to be a town-tell itself. He sparked discussion on page one of a game. While most was short-lived, its still much more discussion than one would get with randomly voting during the day. As far as it see it, this whole ordeal is being blown way out of proportion. Not by raivann who originally made the point, but by fishy. Going from a random vote to berry is likely scum in roughly a page of posts is a bit ridiculous.
PS: I would normally vote after this, but I'll wait for a votecount first.Defined by who I dislike, not who I like~-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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@BB: speaking for myself, when I am town it matters to me how I look. When I am scum Iobsessabout it. I believe this is broadly true for the population as a whole. I totally agree that a great town strategy is to be very open about your thoughts on the game, because when I achieve that is easily when I play my best mafia. But that still brings us back to the fact that your were thinking about your own image.
@llama: what's wrong with my vote, exactly? I don't understand your explanations thus far. Can you also please explain exactly what the connection between Raivann and me is - all I see is that we agree on something.
FoS: Llama
Right now I don't feel your attitude towards me adds up. Also, your stance on me seemed to become less certain between posts 35 and 48, and yet you voted for me in the latter - after your position had received support from xvart.
@flameaxe: I think that
1) People who use smilies to excess are more likely to be trying to be liked by the town.
2) People who are trying to be liked by the town are more likely to be thinking about how they are viewed.
3) People who are thinking about how they are viewed are more likely to be scum.
When I said BB was "likely scum", I meant that he was more likely scum than average. Obviously, it's too early in the game to be very sure.-
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
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Fishythefish - 2 - xvart, llamaeatataco
Blackberry - 2 - Fishythefish, Jack
Llama - 2 - Mitsuru, raivann
Strangercoug - 1 - mallowgeno
Flameaxe - 1 - Strangercoug
mallowgeno - 1 - Blackberry
Not Voting - 3 - Anon, Budja, Flameaxe
Deadline: 17th August.Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.-
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Fine. Noteworthy. You happy?Budja wrote:SC was tiptoing around his opinion, calling Jacks vote "interesting" for example.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
Current avatar by PurryFurry of FurAffinity.
What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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mallowgeno Mafia Scum
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Soz didn't read your post.Blackberry wrote: Also,Vote: mallowgenofor the moment. Him not responding to my question suggests he may not have read any of the other posts (though I doubt this considering I bolded everyone's names). So I'll see what he says .
Depends on player. I think more experienced players wouldn't do either regardless.Blackberry wrote:mallowgeno - Do you think people who get angry easily and use cuss words/act like the other person is stupid is more likely to me mafia, or it is 100% personality?-
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mallowgeno Mafia Scum
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Mitsuru Kirijo Goon
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Raivann Mafia Scum
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Do you know who your serious vote is gonna be for? Or were you gonna makeup something shortly?Mitsuru Kirijo wrote:Fishy, I'd hardly consider thinking about how you are viewed as scummy. Whether you're town, scum or whatever, you want to be seen as town. That's common to all roles, is it not? What makes it scummy in the first place?
Unvotefor now. Expect a serious vote shortly.
Why not just serious vote now ?Digestion only feeds...This abomination breathes!-
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Mitsuru Kirijo Goon
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Porochaz Oh, Prozac
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Hi guys, just letting you know Ill be away from the 5th to the 10th. Farside has graciously offered to do votecounts and if necessary lock the thread during that time. If night falls during that time, I will still be taking night choices. I will tell you all again nearer the time. But thought I should let you know.Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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I've already answered this. I believe that scum think about how they are viewedMitsuru Kirijo wrote:Fishy, I'd hardly consider thinking about how you are viewed as scummy. Whether you're town, scum or whatever, you want to be seen as town. That's common to all roles, is it not? What makes it scummy in the first place?
Unvotefor now. Expect a serious vote shortly.morethan town. This is based on my personal experience, and I think it's fairly sensible - as scum, your own life is much more important than being right about things, so the emphasis in your thought process is on "how will this look?" rather than "is this true?".-
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Flameaxe Comma Police
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I've heard some pretty absurd arguments in my time on this website, but this one is really creeping to the number one spot. Do you honestly believe that using a lot of smilies would be a scum tactic? Calling this a stretch is quite an understatement.1) People who use smilies to excess are more likely to be trying to be liked by the town.
Not buying it. Likely scum and more likely scum than average are completely different. Given the overall tone of said post, I did not (and still cannot) feel "more likely than average". The speed at which you changed gears can be summed up by one word: Fishy. (rimshot?)When I said BB was "likely scum", I meant that he was more likely scum than average. Obviously, it's too early in the game to be very sure.
Vote: Fishy
Yo, Jack. Where you at, brah?Defined by who I dislike, not who I like~-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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Well. That was how I was intending the phrase "likely scum". I think it would be kind of absurd for it to have the other meaning - there is simply no motivation for a player of any faction to make a statement with such unjustified certainty that early in the game. I also think it's pretty clear from my post 36 (shortly after the vote) that this was my meaning - I said BB's post was "a bit more likely to come from scum than town" and that it was "more likely to be right than a total nulltell". I don't think those phrases jive at all well with what you think I was saying.
I'm not saying the actual smilies themselves would be a concious scum tactic. Rather, worrying about how people see you would lead to an ingratiating post style, as you tried to make people like you.
I don't think my argument was wrong. If it's not obvious, I don't feel what I pointed out is a mega-strong scumtell, but I do think it is a scumtell. And in the RVS, I'll vote on anything that I think makes someone more likely to be scum. I really don't understand why people have such big problems with this vote.-
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Being flippant is not a tell. Sorry.mallowgeno wrote:
After that statement, my vote shall remain.StrangerCoug wrote: Fine. Noteworthy. You happy?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
Current avatar by PurryFurry of FurAffinity.
What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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xvart Mafia Scum
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You're right; but my point is still valid regardless.Raivann, 49 wrote:@xvart- I didn't vote Blackberry I FoS'ed him.
I really don't read BB's post that way; I mean there are a couple parts that might seem a little AtEish but nothing substantial. That's why I think this whole debate is somewhat concocted.Fishythefish, 64 wrote:I'm not saying the actual smilies themselves would be a concious scum tactic. Rather, worrying about how people see you would lead to an ingratiating post style, as you tried to make people like you.
xvart.I only read quote walls.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"-
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Budja Mafia Scum
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llamaeatataco Goon
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@Budja: So you as well are saying that you believe scum would use smilies more often than town?
Also, the antagonism is because it makes the day go faster.
@Fishy: My stance on you didn't change at all. I was clarifying. There was one shred of truth in all of the stupidity, and I was confirming its existence. The rest of it was still stupid.
@Mitsuru: Yes, we're overreacting a little bit. It's better than under-reacting.The game. Guess what? You just lost it.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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@llama: and my other questions? To repeat:
- Why, exactly, am I scum? What is it that was stupid about my vote, and why was that stupidity (or anything else about it) scummy?
- What is the link between me and Raivann, and why did you bring it up?
- If your stance didn't change between those posts, why did you only vote in the second one?
I feel you are rather strawmanning my argument on BB by condensing it to "scum use smilies more than town". While I suppose that is a consequence of it, it makes the argument sound more silly than it is.
@xvart: when posting early in the game, I endeavour not to random vote. That means I'm looking for any tell of any magnitude to vote on. If the result sometimes looks "somewhat concocted", that's no great surprise to me. By the way, what do you mean when you call my vote "opportunistic", in the context of it being the second vote on a wagon, with the first being random?-
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mallowgeno Mafia Scum
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Budja Mafia Scum
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@Llama, Pushing an "innocent" persona -> slightly higher chance of being scum -> good starting wagon. Yes, it could be a personality thing, but why WIFOM.
Reread a bit. Expanding (slightly) on my gut, you feel hollow/fake to me. The opinion changing on Fishy especially feels off (to take from Raivann).-
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Mitsuru Kirijo Goon
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llamaeatataco Goon
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Whoops. OK, connection between you and Raivann: You backed up his absolutely batshit insane theory, he's now attacking me for attacking you, etc. It's slightly silly, but I did say tenuous, didn't I?fish wrote: @llama: what's wrong with my vote, exactly? I don't understand your explanations thus far. Can you also please explain exactly what the connection between Raivann and me is - all I see is that we agree on something.
Anyway, what's wrong with your vote? It's stupid. 'Smilies = sucking up to town' is absolutely retarded. It's quite obviously a personality thing.
If your stance didn't change between those posts, why did you only vote in the second one
Because I didn't feel like taking my random vote off in my first post.
It's the first link that is a problem. The first link that you didn't list, that of "People who use smilies are trying to look innocent."budja wrote:Llama, Pushing an "innocent" persona -> slightly higher chance of being scum -> good starting wagon. Yes, it could be a personality thing, but why WIFOM.
(This also applies to Fishy) If you don't agree with your argument after I take it to its (silly) logical conclusion, then be a man and unvote and accept that you are wrong.
To beat a dead horse:
I'm not making it soundfish wrote:I feel you are rather strawmanning my argument on BB by condensing it to "scum use smilies more than town". While I suppose that is a consequence of it, it makes the argument sound more silly than it is.moresilly than it is, you're trying to make it soundlesssilly. I'm not strawmanning you, I'm showing you what your saying without dressing it up with stupid crap to make it sound legit.
Cool story bro. What's this opinion change thing again? The part where I acknowledged that there was a bit of truth in the mess of fail?budja wrote: Reread a bit. Expanding (slightly) on my gut, you feel hollow/fake to me. The opinion changing on Fishy especially feels off (to take from Raivann).
Indeed. 'splain Mallow?mitsuru wrote:
This makes absolutely no sense.mallowgeno wrote: I never said it was a tell. You just did. I WILL say that that just makes me suspect you more and I think you just slipped.The game. Guess what? You just lost it.-
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Fishythefish Mafia Scum
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No. You are strawmanning my argument. My full argument goes:
- BB's jokey style in his first post, including smilies, make me think he is trying to be liked.
- This, and the fact that he talks about his playstyle (which is an argument you have made no reference to), make me think he is thinking about his own image.
- This makes me think he's scum.
I think it's clear that that is not equivalent to "smilies are scummy". I don't believed that you actually went back and looked at my posts when I challenged you on that. And since your supposedly basing your vote off my posts, I find that pretty suspect.
unvote, vote: llama
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