Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[kyle99]

The only name I recognize is yabbaguy ;(

Well guys, I'm your SE. That basically means I've played lots of games here, even though I still suck at mafia. If you have any questions about game theory, yabbaguy is probably a better person to ask.

[kyle99]

VOTE: Tanstales
Random voting is fun.

[kyle99]

Hey! Kyle99 Didn't vote for me, he voted for some guy named TanstalEs...

All kidding aside, I am also curious as to why yabba voted for me and said "semi-random" - and also why he is looking for a deadline already?

I answered your question, I think it only fair you answer mine

From now on, I am going to call you Tan.

[kyle99]

Wowzies, forgot about this game guys. My bad
Catchup post to follow soon.

How could you possibly

forget

about

this

game? Are you suggesting that any other mod is able to make a more memorable game than me? Don't get me even started on my storyline! Are you saying that you just for

got

about the total corruption of the last remaining superpower on earth, it's subsequent penultimate global domination and following deterioration into broken bands of underground bunker-towns lacking any form of social communication outside their own secluded camping places, utterly cutoff from the surface world for fear of their very survival?!?

You mean to tell me that you just forgot about

life and death for the entire human race?

[kyle99]

Couple things I want to bring up:

Adrien C's post 54 is pretty bad. IC's odds of being scum are the same as anyone else. Not saying that he is, but discounting them as being as scum JUST because there the IC is bad reasoning. Also, why the FoS as opposed to the vote?

Makorbreak needs to chill. Not really liking her play, but that could be just her taking stuff to personal.

VOTE: Makeorbreak
@Makeorbreak: Who's do you think is scum right now and what do you think of the game so far?

[kyle99]

VOTE: kyle99

Any particular reason you want to massive lurk, not put out any content, and jump in and put someone at L1 without any reasoning?

[kyle99]

How exactly have I been lurking?

You posted absolutely no game content and merely whinned about how you had been "attacked". I ask you specifically to post your opinion on the game so far, and instead, you just put me at L1 without ANY reasoning.

[kyle99]

VOTE: kyle99

Any particular reason you want to massive lurk, not put out any content, and jump in and put someone at L1 without any reasoning?

Someone's calling the kettle black. I will

FoS: Makeorbreak

for what I think was an attempted hammer, considering switching my vote, honestly. I think she thought she was hammering when she saw the vote count and saw my vote right above it that the mod must have missed.

Preview Edit: *cough*Hypocrite*cough* Not defending her or anything, as she is wrong too, but you're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

No, I'm not. I've contributed some game content, albeit not a ton, haven't been using massive uses of AtE, and don't lurk and hammerfail like she did. I have no idea how your vote is still on me Adrien.

[kyle99]

I'm considering dropping the hammer on kyle

I'm tempted to vote for the following reasons:

1) Lurking and then saying he forgot about the game
2) viewtopic.php?p=2401478#p2401478 Where he says he has contributed game content, which he has in 1 post thus far this game viewtopic.php?p=2400339#p2400339 in his last 3 posts this game though he has just thrown suspicion around
3)Going back to post #122 - makes a short post getting very defensive and then also wondering why Adrien's vote was still on him when Adrien stated VERY clearly by saying "

Preview Edit: *cough*Hypocrite*cough* Not defending her or anything, as she is wrong too, but you're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

"

As kyle is an "experienced" player I would not think he would make as many posts that seem as scummy as the ones he has.

I thought that an experienced player would be with mafia, apparently this is not the case - however I find that the above 3 reasons explain why I am thinking of voting the way I am.

If any of the more experienced players see a flaw in my logic - or if I may have missed something please advise, I'd hate to drop the hammer on a townie on day 1.

@kyle

- please respond

Your case is crap for a number of reasons:

1) Me lurking and not posting in the first 3 days would be incredibly stupid from a town standpoint and a scum standpoint, so the only logical reason for that would be that I forgot about this game.

2) I was comparing my 1 game related post to Makeorbreak's 0 game related posts.

3) My post was not "very defensive", merely questioning a questonable vote by Adrien. I had missed the first couple of pages and was attempting to get caught up, and Adrien was going after me when MoB had been active lurking, a much worse defense then plain old generic lurking.

@Adrien: Why the hell is MoB off the hook?

[kyle99]

Just wondering if you mean that you admit to "generic" lurking? Or if you mean that generic lurking just isn't as bad as active lurking?

I'm thinking you mean the former, but that would contradict your statement that you wern't lurking, so I am assuming that you mean active lurking is worse than generic lurking. I'm not sure what your definition of generic is, I would assume just not posting, in which case I would have to disagree with you. I'd rather see someone actually post anything than nothing at all.

Active Lurking = Purposly not posting to avoid suspicion, to avoid scumslipping, etc. This is very bad.
Lurking = Not posting because of no computer access, forgetting about the game, etc. This is not bad.

[kyle99]

Yeah, just got up guys. I honestly don't know why you guys are lynching me, other then my late start, I've been somewhat active in scumhunting. Meanwhile, MoB has done the following:

-Make NO EFFORT to even attempt to scumhunt. Seriously. Show me one post in which she actually attempts to scumhunt.
-When my bandwagon was forming, she jumps on it without any explanation or prior suspicion of me.
-Active lurks like crazy.

Also, not claiming until someone not voting for me asks me to.

[kyle99]

Fine. VT.

[kyle99]

Kyle's flip could be scum. Believe me, MoB is number two on my list.

Why am I number 1 on your list and MoB is number 2? You seem to be going to great lengths to defend MoB, and that's making you look extremely scummy right now.

[kyle99]

So my last post for the evening.... I really expected kyle to be dead when I got back.
My Top 3:
MoB - so we haven't heard from her in over 24hrs and 8 of her 20 posts were during a one hour span yesterday, this was her attempt to contribute content to distance herself from kyle99 who was effectively not providing content.

If she is town, she's not being helpful.

kyle99 - while I expect that we'll hear a bit for from him before I wake up in the morning, a summary of his activity today:
-

redirected suscpicion towards MoB

(the most easily targetted)
-claims VT
-then

questions Adrien

Never making much attempt at all to make a case against anyone else.

While Dekes makes some good points ISO-11, he's still on my short list.
_____

We're into the 5th RL day of D1, I'm not real experienced, yabba and adrien seem to be implying that it's still pretty early to lynch.

I've seen the abbreviations CC and FFS, i've checked the wiki and am not finding the meanings. Can someone help me out?

I'm intrigued at the bolded part. I make a great case against MoB, and throw out the possible scumpair of MoB and Adrien, and you're wondering why I'm not making a 3rd case? Do you think there's 3 scum in this game?

Also, MoB is the easiest target because she's scum. Usually works out that way.

[kyle99]

Damn, you definitely can't say this is a slow game. Okay, I'll start with this quote and go on from there:

If kyle is town, there is a strong case against Adrien/MoB scumbuddy pair. If Mob flips scum, there is a strong case of Adrien/Mob scumbuddy pair. If MoB is lynched town, I see no loss there. If kyle flips mafia, well, we killed a mafia, but then, finding Kyle's partner will be extremely hard at this point. Hmmmm....

You've posted some well-crafted posts later on where I can agree with most of the points but this right here is where I disagree with you.

If we are to assume the worse case - that we mislynch today - I just believe that a kyle mislynch will be much more profitable to town than a Mob mislynch.
You say that if Mob flips town there's no loss there. I beg to differ, I think it's pretty much a completely wasted mislynch for town. Who would you go for the next day? Would you go back to kyle? And then who else? Your Adrien/Mob scum team is out of the question then. Do you honestly believe in a kyle/Adrien scum team? Yeah, didn't think so. Either kyle or Adrien & montgomery? Maybe. But I can see the Mob lynch as being annoyed town wanting to get rid of their most annoying player. I just don't see enough information to work with the next day if she flips town.
Additionally, I don't see Mob as much of a threat. It's not like she could lead town to a lynch on her own. And If she keeps on behaving scummy/anti-town on Day 2 we can still lynch her tomorrow.

On the other hand, if kyle flips town there's so much more info you can extract out of the wagon. You can look at yabba's posts when he started the wagon and how he handled the situation afterwards. You can ISO the hell out of Adrien, there's a lot of intriguing stuff. And I'm curious whether Adrien would really be pushing for a Mob lynch tomorrow. It is kind of strange how he emphasizes in like every post that Mob is #2 on his list. But for now he's not on my scumdar.
You can even investigate me seeing as how pushy I am towards a kyle lynch. And then there's how tanstalas, Tuxhedoh and montgomery have handled the kyle wagon differently so far.

With that being said, I'm keeping my vote on kyle. Just because other people have tried to clear his name/explain his behaviour directing town towards a Mob lynch doesn't make his posts less scummy in my opinion.

The problem is with that situation you brought up is your assuming that both me and MoB would be mislynches. Assuming that a lynch could be a mislynch and wondering which mislynch would be less worse is bad and anti-town. Vote on who's scum and nothing else.

[kyle99]

Sorry for the triple post.

I am going to post just one of kyles many many posts since yabba first posted that, only a mere 3 RL days ago...

The problem is with that situation you brought up is your assuming that both me and MoB would be mislynches. Assuming that a lynch could be a mislynch and wondering which mislynch would be less worse is bad and anti-town. Vote on who's scum and nothing else.

This is proof that he has added content. I plan on using it in my case against Dekes. I literally just grabbed his last post too. He's not active lurking anymore. It's time to move on...

I don't see this as proof as stated in my previous post but generally, yes, Kyle has started posting content. But what were his other options? Keep on active lurking? Full blown AtE? Give up? I'm pretty sure all of those things would've gotten him hammered very quickly. So he better damn well had to be starting to post some content. Does not clear him in my book. But more on that in my case.

When was I active lurking? Show me evidence of this please, because I can't recall me ever active lurking.

[kyle99]

Ehh, that was more me forgetting about the game, but whatever.

[kyle99]

I think kyle is town.

unvote;vote kyle99

How are these two phrases both in the same post?

[kyle99]

@Kyle99 Because I put them there.

[kyle99]

So now Kyle needs to convince me not to hammer.

ISO MoB and then try to convince everyone why you should hammer.

[kyle99]

MoB is almost a guarantee to be the next lynch. I asked you to defend yourself, not deflect. Go.

1) MoB has acted SIGNIFICANTLY scummier then me the whole game. There's no feasible reason why she should be lynched after me.
2) Make a case on me, or something I can respond to instead of just asking me why you guys shouldn't lynch me.

[kyle99]

VOTE: kyle99

Any particular reason you want to massive lurk, not put out any content, and jump in and put someone at L1 without any reasoning?

Someone's calling the kettle black. I will

FoS: Makeorbreak

for what I think was an attempted hammer, considering switching my vote, honestly. I think she thought she was hammering when she saw the vote count and saw my vote right above it that the mod must have missed.

Preview Edit: *cough*Hypocrite*cough* Not defending her or anything, as she is wrong too, but you're doing the EXACT SAME THING.

No. Just no. You have NOT been "somewhat" active in scumhunting. You have done absolutely NO scumhunting except helping an early wagon on MoB.

Those two posts sum up my total case on you. For a majority of this game, you have been posting NO content (granted, you are starting to now) and a summary of your posts during that time frame was you badgering MoB for not posting content (granted, she wasn't either). You were doing the EXACT SAME THING she was doing during that time frame. No matter how much you jump up and down that you weren't, truth is, you were. Now, I'll make a deal with you. If you acknowledge that you were also active lurking and not posting any real content and explain yourself other than "forgetting the game", I will not hammer you and let you live another day. I can't speak for the other people who could also drop the hammer, but I will not.

So speak.

I'm amazed. This is possibly the most pointless and confusing tunneling I believe I've ever seen. I'm just trying to think of ONE reason why your actions would be beneficial from a scum standpoint or a town standpoint. From a scum standpoint, your actions are so obviously scummy that anyone with half of a mafia brain would have you pegged as scum. From a town standpoint, you're obviously not making any attempt to actually catch scum and ignoring obvious scumtells from other players. I have concluded that instead of assigning you a particular alinement at this point in the game, I have decided to just label you as someone who is completely incompetent at the game of mafia.

Your "case" has so many holes in it that I don't know where to begin. Firstly, let's summarize your case on me:

1) I was a hypocrite in making my case on MoB for active lurking.
2) I supposedly have not spent any effort scumhunting so far this game.

Let's look at the first one first, shall we?

Adrien's First Argument In Me Being Scum

Before we devulge in this, let's get a definition of lurking from the wiki.

Lurking:

When a player is intentionally quiet during a game's Day, or misses their Night Choice, they are said to be lurking. The term most often applies to voluntary absence, but

players who unintentionally find themselves absent over a sufficient length of time without first notifying the game moderator and other players are also often accused of lurking.

Note the underlined point, as this is the part that applies to me. I had forgotten about the game, and as such, did not read or post in the thread. This is not a scumtell or a towntell, but rather a nulltell.

Now, let's take a look at active lurking:

Active Lurking:

A subset of lurking is the so-called "active lurking", where a player

posts in the thread but without making any contribution to the progress of the game.

Their posts may be minimal in length, off-topic, or merely parroting what other players have already said.
MoB is a textbook example of active lurking. In order to truly understand this scumminess, let's ISO Makeorbreak in order to truly understand the mind of a mafia member.

ISO1) Intro post.
ISO2) Random vote.
ISO3) Unvote of random vote.
ISO4) Defense of "personal attack".
ISO5) Crying due to personal attack.
ISO6) Very emotional due to personal attack.
ISO7) Explanation of lurking, says she's fine with being lynched.
ISO8) Admits to her vote being an OMGUS.
ISO9) Explains previous vote.
ISO10) Post reply.
ISO11) Questions dekes (sorta).
ISO12) References other game.
ISO13) Off-topic post.
ISO14) Goes after someone for voting her in the RVS.
ISO15) Puts me at L1 without any past suspicion of me or any explanation of vote.
ISO16) Asks how she's been lurking. Read above to answer that question
ISO17) Using posts she made in a case against HER. Gee, imagine that?
ISO18) Pointless AtE, and says that she votes solely out of retaliation and majority. Seriously, this post is awful.
ISO19) States she's contributed content.
ISO20) Pointless post.
ISO21) Admits her vote on me was an OMGUS.
ISO22) Says she's back, doesn't comment on anything going on.

Not a SINGLE ONE OF THESE POSTS has any example of constructive scumhunting. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING POST.
I'd do an ISO of myself showing where I've actually scumhunted, but that would take quite a while, so I'll let you do that for yourself. Based on these though, it's pretty clear that I'm not a hypocrite, I haven't been active lurking like Adrien said, and that MoB has contributed literally absolutely nothing to this game and deserves to die. Now.

Adrien's Second Argument In Me Being Scum

Adrien's second reason on why I'm scum consisted of how I have not spent any of the game actively scumhunting. As I said before, I'd go into an ISO of my posts, show how I've scumhunted, made cases (specifically on MoB), asked questions, etc. However, this would take much to long, and my post is already running pretty long. So I'll let you guys do this yourselves. After the first 4 posts in my ISO, it's pretty clear I haven't been active lurking or lurking for that matter. But don't take my word for it. Be a good mafia player and look for yourself.

tl;dr: Adrien is incompetent, MoB is scum (vote her), and I'm awesome for writing a post like this at 2 in the morning.

[kyle99]

*sigh*

Adrien's case on me is I don't scumhunt and I'm a hypocrite for scumhunting on MoB for crappy posting. I counter the first point by making a case on MoB (making a case being an alternate form of scumhunting) and counter your second point by showing that I wasn't in fact active lurking, making me not a hypocrite, and of course, he completely misses the whole post and instead completely misreps me in a biased ISO... I'm starting to think Adrien is more likely to be scum than MoB. I still don't think we should do anything more until Pacman posts his game summary so far though.