Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[pacman281292]

/confirming

/currently reading thread

[Jackabomb]

Vote count 1.10
Pacman-

Montgomery, kyle99, Beanman;

Tanstalas-

;

Dekes-

;

kyle99-

;

Beanman-

;

yabbaguy-

;

Montgomery-

;

Not voting-

yabbaguy, Tuxhedoh, Adrien C, Tanstalas, dekes, Pacman;

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.
15 days until deadline.

[pacman281292]

OK, i've over-read the whole thread (only 8 pages of serious discussion ). I got tired at the end, but at least I can say that the player I replaced was being way too pointless in her posts. I hope I can fix that back.
I still haven't made a clear opinion of the people on the game. I'll re-review things more clearly tomorrow, but as I see, there are no clear favorites for scum for me.
I'll try to post a summary later.

[Adrien C]

Take your time, Pacman.

[kyle99]

*sigh*

Adrien's case on me is I don't scumhunt and I'm a hypocrite for scumhunting on MoB for crappy posting. I counter the first point by making a case on MoB (making a case being an alternate form of scumhunting) and counter your second point by showing that I wasn't in fact active lurking, making me not a hypocrite, and of course, he completely misses the whole post and instead completely misreps me in a biased ISO... I'm starting to think Adrien is more likely to be scum than MoB. I still don't think we should do anything more until Pacman posts his game summary so far though.

[Tuxhedoh]

This replacement thing seems like it'd be a challenge for even an experienced player to turn around to their advantage....it is certainly going to be interesting.

While I recognize I mostly promised something yesterday, I'm also gonna hold off until Pacman gets stuff together, but I already suspect Man buddying - beanman/pacman scumpair. j/k

[Beanman]

I still can't get past the fact that he cast that vote of Makeorbreak while on the fence.

This sentence, is without a doubt, the most scummy statement I've come across all game. The very fact that he casted a vote(taking a decisive action), means, he's not on the fence(being indecisive). This is his whole argument against kyle at this point. yabba is extremely stupid or scum. I'm really leaning towards the latter at this point... Either way, with statements like this, he's horribly misleading town....

He accuses kyle of active lurking only 29 posts into game begin. Seriously. 29 posts... That just over a page people. Kyle posted a total of 2 times in the period of between being called active lurker by yabba and game start. His first post was RVS. His 2nd post, stating he was gonna abbreviate a person's name.(THIS IS NOT ACTIVE LURKING)

He states kyle should eventually be today's lynch, yet isn't voting him cause he doesn't want the day to end(he states this when kyle is L-3, really far from a kyle kill at this point). But Beanman you ask, what about Adrien, he had the opportunity to lynch as well and you said he was sure. Here's the thing. Adrien wasn't 100% convinced, That's why I had to put kyle at L-1. To convince everyone. It was risky, but it payed off for all. Hell icing on the cake, was his responce. He asked for a defense. He didn't say it would be criminal to lynch, he even said it's not 100% in his control(as it wasn't.) He wasn't sure. This is more town than anything. Not wanting to hammer when your unsure. yabba says he's sure. he has stated kyle should be todays lynch. Which means he's sure that kyle is mafia, yet didn't kill him, didn't kill him when he had the chance, and isn't voting him now when kyle is L-3. WTF? What I think, is that he doesn't want to be on the bandwagon that kills kyle, because he know's that kyle's inno. He is distancing himself from the BW so that he's not a suspect come day 2, when kyles eventual inno appears to all.

@everyone, yabba is our IC, he still has his own agenda, we should at this point stop taking everything he says as gospel, especially now that I've caught him in his own lies.

@ Kyle- I don't think Adrien is scum anymore, I think he just got caught up in yabba's misleads to get you lynched today.

@Adrien-like I said to kyle, I don't think your scum. Let's kill some real scum.

@Pacman, I really hope you have solid information, as the person you're replacing really hurt your role... Good luck. I am willing to give you the player the benefit of the doubt to save yourself, however, with the way yabba has been coddling this role, I'm fairly sure there is a scum buddy connection there.

unvote;vote yabba

You sir are scum, and need to die.

[Beanman]

Also, yabba stated and I quote, that "hammering now would be criminal"(this was before the MoB replacement fiasco) Something he never stated or anything close to at any times that kyle was at L-1. Scumness to the MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tuxhedoh]

yabba says he's sure. he has stated kyle should be todays lynch. Which means he's sure that kyle is mafia, yet didn't kill him, didn't kill him when he had the chance, and isn't voting him now when kyle is L-3. WTF? What I think, is that he doesn't want to be on the bandwagon that kills kyle, because he know's that kyle's inno. He is distancing himself from the BW so that he's not a suspect come day 2, when kyles eventual inno appears to all.

Bean, all along yabba has been keeping track of time, all along he has been saying things like, it's awfully early in D1 to lynch. I even asked about it in my iso14. Just because I was unsure of how the games on the forum play out from day to day. He also explains this as well in yab-iso35, that just 4 posts prior he demanded to hear from montgomery and makeorbreak

bean you're very vocal regarding yabba's scumminess -

you've voted for
montgomery - RVS
kyle-
Makeorbreak
Dekes
kyle
Makeorbreak
and finally yabba.

Bean, you've never been in my top 2 suspects, and you're not number 3 ( a third, because Kyle claimed VT and if he's not lying I need a backup), but you've voted for 5 of the 8 possible folks (not counting yourself). This is suspect to me. You've also jumped off the kyle bandwagon even though you've Voted for him twice... also being the last to unvote him, switching back to morb, but then unvoting I think to give pacman more time and less pressure. Might as well try to get a bw on someone else and gain more information while waiting for pacman.

This games in my head.... I can't stop thinking about it, I just don't know what to think. Everyone has bailed on kyles vote. I suspect pacman will be first to go, no fault of his own though.... I'm going to

Vote:kyle99

- I'm not convinced he's cleared his name, and I think he should continue to feel some pressure.

[yabbaguy]

All Beanman quotes.

He accuses kyle of active lurking only 29 posts into game begin. Seriously. 29 posts... That just over a page people. Kyle posted a total of 2 times in the period of between being called active lurker by yabba and game start. His first post was RVS. His 2nd post, stating he was gonna abbreviate a person's name.(THIS IS NOT ACTIVE LURKING)

The definition of active lurking is not solely quantitative, although sometimes you can consider the case amplified with prolonged lack of content. The fact of the matter is that carnage was starting to go down with the random votes dwindling away in favor of actual shenanigans. Instead, kyle bypassed it all with a fluffy remark. That absolutely qualifies, as it shows a lack of desire to scumhunt and set off what I like to call the pyrotechnics of the game, getting all the arguments and all these reactions to occur in the thread.

Part of the reason I voted him in the first place was actually pressure. With that, I never intended to lynch him straightaway, nor did I fear that a wagon would be formed so quickly that such a lynch would occur. But I was saying to him, "hey, I see you posting without making any remarks on things that have happened already; you're not scumhunting." That's what the point of the vote was.

yabba says he's sure. he has stated kyle should be todays lynch. Which means he's sure that kyle is mafia, yet didn't kill him, didn't kill him when he had the chance, and isn't voting him now when kyle is L-3. WTF? What I think, is that he doesn't want to be on the bandwagon that kills kyle, because he know's that kyle's inno. He is distancing himself from the BW so that he's not a suspect come day 2, when kyles eventual inno appears to all.

Okay, one quote from me:

And I still want montgomery to explain why she finds Makeorbreak scummy before this Day ends. Being a troll isn't scummy.

I said this outright. I said very clearly that I don't want to end this Day until I have a good handle on everyone who's irking me. And the fact that montgomery

still

isn't saying why Makeorbreak was

scummy

and not

a troll

is really, really frustrating. She's advocating for nothing more than a policy lynch without directly acknowledging the fact.

Why is this relevant? Voting is double-edged, it says "this person is scummy", but it also says "I'm ready to end the Day". If I ended this Day, I wouldn't get the answer to this nagging problem with montgomery, and we'd have lynched without me being really sure of Makeorbreak's alignment, which means my vote would be suboptimal. I still think she's being pegged as a mislynch at this point. But the thing is, I'm not *entirely* sure with all these shenanigans from her. I want montgomery and the slot of Makeorbreak to be figured out before I end this Day. I said I was sure of kyle simply because, at the rate we were going, I felt it most likely. I said that rather candidly.

Frankly, I'm very afraid that the pace of this game is being taken a bit too fast (for my liking anyway), and if I were to vote, it puts that suboptimal scenario that much closer to occurring. I don't want that. I don't think all the facts are being stacked up clearly.

I'm sorry that you got so excited thinking you solved it and are ready to start your propaganda campaign to get me hung, I've been there before, but you're dead wrong. I am not fencesitting. I am not distancing from a wagon.

And I still am not going to vote, esp. with the force-replace.

@Tux: What does more pressure on kyle accomplish?

[Beanman]

All that aside yabba, You still havent addressed the two times i have outright accused you of lieing in regards to your accusation of kyle fence-sitting, when his actions were the exact opposite...

All the rest might not be hard proof, but this is hard proof of outright lieing.

Town doesn't lie. You lied. Your scum. Sorry but, you got caught...

[Tuxhedoh]

@Tux: What does more pressure on kyle accomplish?

When I checked the vote tally, no one was voting for Kyle any longer. I had not voted for kyle as there was a bw and we were waiting for kyle to claim. Kyle claimed, folks backed off to the point of no one voting for anyone other than Makeorbreak. I had stated that I'd drop the hammer on kyle, but then heeded your warning that it was possibly to early in the game to end the day, as well as the need for process the VT claim. It's been processed, things have happened. I've made my vote. While perhaps not getting kyle killed, my vote is still 1 closer to a lynch. I'm sticking to my guns, while waiting on pacman... *tumbleweeds blowing down the street, classic western whistle*

I know I've played the newbie card repeatedly, and I'm playing it again...I'm not sure how everything plays out, the only way to see for sure is to play.... that's what I'm doing, while hoping to move the game along. I'm willing to be wrong, and be educated to my errors, but I'm not willing to sit back and let the game happen without participating.

[yabbaguy]

Makorbreak needs to chill.

Not really

liking her play, but

that could be

just her taking stuff to personal.

VOTE: Makeorbreak

Look at all that wishy-washy malarkey I emphasized. That is CATEGORICALLY fence-sitting.

(Tux, I'll reply in a few minutes)

[Beanman]

Makorbreak needs to chill.

Not really

liking her play, but

that could be

just her taking stuff to personal.

VOTE: Makeorbreak

Look at all that wishy-washy malarkey I emphasized. That is CATEGORICALLY fence-sitting.

(Tux, I'll reply in a few minutes)

By the definition of fence-sitting, he did the EXACT OPPOSITE of it. He took a decisive desicion, and voted. He in fact, has been more decisive than both you and I, as he has kept onto that vote, throughout his whole duration of thinking that role to be scum. His reasoning is void when he voted. You can't make something out of nothing. You have no case. Your just making up lies, and you got caught...

[pacman281292]

bah, I was making a full ISO check, but accidentally closed the tab, and lost the info.
dammit... oh well, so I'll say just what I think.
AdrienC: Contributing, always throwing pressure, attacked MoB, then kyle, then MoB, then the mystery PM appears. 57 posts. Result: uncertain (not very scummy, but not enough town-ish).
Beanman: Also a good discussion fueler. Attacked MoB and kyle for not contributing, then Dekes for bandwagoning kyle when he (kyle) started contributing... then L-1's kyle to test Adrien's read, then MoB again. When PM trouble appears, starts attacking yabba. 39 posts. Overall read: uncertain, slightly town-ish.
Dekes: first tried so stay away from kyle-MoB stuff, then goes for kyle (and Bean attacks him), then for MoB, unvotes waiting for replacement. 20 posts. General read: too little information to take a stance.
Jackabomb: Wait isn't he the Mod?
kyle: comes back after 2-day absence (3 days into the game...). Questions on MoB. Sincerely, I don't find the active lurking there (although he isn't that great in content...). Then under pressure, roleclaims, blah, blah, blah. 23 posts. Overview: Not particularly scummy, but he leaned way too much on the rival wagon, and that's somewhat scummy to me...
Opinions on other players later (my brain is still asleep although it's 10AM here...)

[yabbaguy]

Voting while fence-sitting is still fence-sitting, Beanman. It's worse than fence-sitting, really, he never says I'm as-sure-as-can-be that Makeorbreak is scum.

Words need to be as equally decisive as a vote in order for it to be considered valid and not scum-motivated. The vote and the sentiment don't stack.

[Beanman]

@tuxhedo. You are right, I have thrown around my vote and suspicion, on every single person in play right now. I personally have tried to give as much of a detailed, description of my reasoning for everyone, and tried to be as transparent as possible, so no one confuses my intentions. I use my vote alot to try to pressure and gain information on people, who I'm suspicious of, just like you, just like you when you casted your vote on kyle just now. I am really suprised he's not dead tbh.

[Beanman]

OH OH OH!! Can I do a player analyses of everyone too? That sounds like fun!

[yabbaguy]

@Tux: If you're happy to end the Day, then it's your vote and you swing it. That's fine.

It sounded to me though that you wanted pressure, which to me suggests that you believe kyle will behave differently in response to it even if he believes your vote is valid (if he didn't, he'd lash out, I'm sure). I don't think that's the case.

[Beanman]

@Tux: If you're happy to end the Day, then it's your vote and you swing it. That's fine.

It sounded to me though that you wanted pressure, which to me suggests that you believe kyle will behave differently in response to it even if he believes your vote is valid (if he didn't, he'd lash out, I'm sure). I don't think that's the case.

I do agree with yabba's assessment here. I don't think kyle has acted any different no matter the number of votes he has on him. And he's already stated his role claim, so that's not gonna effect anything. He's not content heavy in his posts, but there is plenty of information on kyle out there for everyone to read and make a desicion on. But there still is at least 1 other mafia abound. Let's get em.

[Beanman]

Voting while fence-sitting is still fence-sitting, Beanman. It's worse than fence-sitting, really, he never says I'm as-sure-as-can-be that Makeorbreak is scum.

Words need to be as equally decisive as a vote in order for it to be considered valid and not scum-motivated. The vote and the sentiment don't stack.

making a decision, while being undecided means your undecided? that's what your saying here. It doesn't mean that, It means, you've made a decision. Also, who the hell is as-sure-as-can-be in the first 5 pages of a newbie game? 2 people, and they are the mafia, as no townie as enough information yet.

[yabbaguy]

Requirement for vote: you need to be sure MoB's plausibly scummy as a result of something she's done.

kyle was on the fence about her being scummy from his sentiment. He's not sure.

kyle, not being entirely sure about MoB's scumminess, voted anyway, thus not satisfying said requirement. Scummy.

It's the facts, man.

[tanstalas]

Welcome pacman!

I had a dream about this game last night, is that a good thing?

uh...no...no, it's not. It's a violation of rule 18.

Nice to see some posts coming from pacman, I'm leaning towards putting my vote back on to kyle, though I will wait until pacman has posted further.

And yabba - I think montgomery's reason for voting was the active lurking thing, if you ISO her and read her post #4 she mentions that. And then in every subsequent post she says troll or trolling. I think I found a new drinking game, everytime Mont says troll/trolling - take a shot.. I wonder how many pages of this thread I could get through..

[pacman281292]

montgomery: RVS, then she is busy. Comes back, then attacks MoB for her AtE, and starts stating why MoB is a troll, before getting again busy. I understand her getting busy, but her contrubution has been way too little, and she hasn't say anything helping the game to move forward clearly. 14 posts. I'm not sure if I should call this scummy or just busy+inexperience, but I don't like it. Slight FoS: montgomery
tanstalas: RVS, discusses about its importance. Then, when kyle is BW'd, considers hammering. Hmm... Unvotes kyle, considers voting her, then e-mail thingy appears. 26 posts. Overall: No particular read from him.
Tuxhedoh: Not many posts, but many of them with lots of content. 24 posts. Read: town-ish.
yabbaguy: Trying to get a conciliatory attitude, trying to prevent the game from falling into a "kyle or MoB" issue. 41 posts. Read: none either.
Well, that's my analysis for now.

[yabbaguy]

Now my mind hurts, pacman. You didn't even take a stance on kyle, put a slight FoS on montgomery, you get a town-ish vibe from Tux, and quite a few of your other reads are :BONK:.

:boggle: