Mini 1009 ÔÇô Popularity mafia (Game over - Mafia wins)

[mothrax]

Honestly, I am not a big fan either though sometimes(most) it is the only way to start discussion.

[mothrax]

Mothrax agreeing but not proposing anything or asking what Blackberry had in mind was a minus, but I still see a Goon tag, so maybe that's expecting too much.

If you recall, and I am too lazy to quote it since it is like 4 posts up, I said that I didn't like it,

but

it was generally necessary. That being said, I didn't feel like casting the first vote.

Also, I don't see disliking RVS as anti-town at all. I see it as being smart. I have played in several games with no RVS and a decent number of those still ended up as town wins.

However, Ecto, you called both myself and BB out on something you say could be scumtell but vote neither of us. Why?

[mothrax]

when things come up that I find odd, then a vote shall be cast by me . If you find me being anti-random voting unusual, please discuss.

I feel like my being defensive of BB is going to cause trouble later in the game, especially if by some weird chance he flips scum, however, I have come under scrutiny because of the same stance and in an effort to explain my point, I will try to explain his.
The second part of his quote seems like an offer to open up discussion, i.e. doing something. He also says that he will vote when there is a reason to vote, a stance I often take myself. RVS is completely new to me with this site, and while I admit, the system I normally play with requires a knowledge of the other players not common on this site, it works (basically meta after discussing game mechanics)

[mothrax]

@scotmany12: care to elaborate?
@BB, I said that because at this point I have a null read on you, and also because if you are lynched and flip scum and I am still alive, I am going to get suspiscion pointed at me for my early "buddying" which I realised too late was what it was. I was not intending to link myself to you, but rather to speak out against what some people said and I disagreed with.

Well now you just blew my excuse for you right out of the water didn't you? Why didn't you talk about your experiences with no RVS then? Not interested in taking that kind of lead in game?

My experiences with no RVS come from a forum where we all know eachother relatively well outside of a Mafia setting, and have all played multiple games with the same people. In those threads things are mainly based on meta all of which I say here:

RVS is completely new to me with this site, and while I admit, the system I normally play with requires a knowledge of the other players not common on this site, it works (basically meta after discussing game mechanics)

Illustrate where Ecto called anything Blackberry or you did a scumtell, hell, especially Blackberry.

OK

Mothrax agreeing but not proposing anything or asking what Blackberry had in mind was a minus

Oh and:

Bad mothrax

oh noes... what are you gonna do, rub my nose in it?

My first reaction is to vote ecto, but I think that is just kneejerk reaction to his targeting of me. scotmany's vote however does worry me.
VOTE: scotmany12
His vote is wagoning, and while I may be coming across as scummy to him, he didn't even state a reason for the vote, not even citing what the players above him.
IMHO: blatant wagoning.

[mothrax]

@mod: can we get a vote count?

My defense of the claim that I reacted poorly will depend on the vote count honestly...
I will say this, I don't feel I reacted poorly. I had a wagon beginning to grow on me. I know from experience that wagoners seem to be scummy when the player being accused is under scrutiny for something not necessarily scum. The others voting for me had stated reasons for voting for me, scot did not. That lead me to believe that he was just jumping on a wagon.

Vote counts will, most of the time, be edited in at the top post of every page as soon as I come in and check the thread (as done above).

[mothrax]

scotmany: the h in imho stands for humble, not honest. Also, for some reason I thought you put me at three not two. my bad.

bb/mod: thanks, I see it now.

[mothrax]

Owie, I got hit with the prodding stick.
Some things learned: even if I don't like a common aspect of play, don't mention it. This is the second game people have used that against me.
Also, watch your words, people who want you lynched will twist them ("don't really like" becomes "hate")
I will post with real content once I get to a computer.

[mothrax]

You should have participated more, but I figured you were probably limited in that capacity by your noobness, but then you go and say you've played other places before and they have no RVS.

I should have participated more in the 8 hours that this game had been open at that point? Ok, next time a game opens at midnight and I have to work the next day, I just won't sleep.

Now, if you want to see what a scumtell callout should look like,

and

Now I voted and made an honest wagon of the thing, and so what you should be asking is how serious is Ecto? Do I believe in this one or am I just kicking off the first wagon? Do you find it a likely scum move by Iron Man?
Mothrax, you know what over-defensive is? It's getting huffed up that someone is "targeting you" despite the fact that in that same post he made an actual case on two different people and voted one of them and commented on every other previous poster in addition to yourself.

Discounting my playstyle, not with logical attacks, which I would be fine with, but rather with jerkish "This is how you should do things" and other snide comments about me.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3&start=62
Here Ecto does more of the same, discounting other peoples playing while not really proposing much of his own. Considering that Cues post was early in the game, and ecto seems to be so much of an RVS supporter, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of random. He jumped on the Iron Man bandwagon without wanting to do the work. The way I read that is he got pissed when those before him didn't do the work so after a brief ride on the thief wagon, he attacks Cuetlachtli
Cuets vote was the third in the game. Yes he mentions scum can slip up in the RVS, but the RVS generally doesn't end after three votes... The way people use the RVS is by analyzing wagons, reactions to wagons, and reactions to votes.
If scum like to talk to be talking I think you are blowing steam out of your rear...
UNVOTE: ;VOTE: Ectomancer

mothrax - you said you didn't like random voting, but that it was generally necessary. That sentiment suggests that as town, the right thing for you to do was to ignore your personal dislike for it and random vote anyway. The fact that you didn't follow that sentiment to me suggests that you're not town.

I was the second post. I had already stated I didn't really like it, as had someone else. I wanted to see where this was going before I started something that was likely to be debated. I thought that Blackberry's "discuss" might have led to some insightful discussion, and so I wanted the focus to be on that, not on a random vote that I threw out there to be silly.

[mothrax]

Ok wow...
The only response to that I have is this... call it an AtE if you will, i don't really care at this point.
I play mafia for fun, not to be hardcore or to prove anything to anyone, if you don't like that, deal with it. I can handle you calling out flaws in my arguments, I can handle you pointing out things that might make me look scummy. But when you insult me personally and change it to personal attacks, that is where I draw the line. I am not a "dumbass," in fact, far from it if my GPA, test scores, and language proficiencies say anything. I will ask you nicely once, please do not attack me as a person. Attack me as a player all you want, fine, but please don't cross that line again.

Vote count

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(2) Blackberry – Korts, Thief
(2) Thief - eljcko, Blackberry
(2) mothrax - scotmany12, ChannelDelibird
(1) Iron Man - Simenon
(1) Cuethlachtli – Ectomancer
(1) Ectomancer - mothrax

Not voting: Cuethlachtli, Iron Man, tumescence

:arrow: Day 1 – (Deadline is August 10)

[mothrax]

Quick notes: Mothrax, I know ecto may have insulted you, but seriously chill. This game has gotten a little ridiculous on that front.

This can also be viewed as a response to the person who told me to "grow the fuck up." If my response seemed immature I appologize for that, however I am not going to sit back and let someone insult my intelligence. If you guys have that much of a problem with the way I handled that then fine, let me know I and I will ask to replace out. Otherwise, this whole issue is becoming more of a distraction than I intended. This is the last I want to speak of this so lets get back to hunting scum.

[mothrax]

To put the whole criticism of my comment @BB to rest(hopefully) It was meant to say "I don't have any idea what he will flip if and when he does, but if he does flip scum, then it will look bad on me because of my "buddying up" with him." The "some odd chance" was me assuming there are 3-4 scum, which makes it a 25-33% chance that he will... I still don't have a scummy read on him, nor do I really have a townie read on him.

[mothrax]

Also, I am not sure if my vote carries over or not, so just in case: UNVOTE: VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
I still find that slot scummy, and the fact that drwhatshisname(sorry, after our first game you will never have a real name) has yet to present anything new, and just rehashes what others have said is another point against him.

[mothrax]

wow, there has not been much content and I have nothing to add... I will try and reread tonight

[mothrax]

V/LA 7/29 to 8/24

I will have access, but not sure how much and only on my phone

[mothrax]

well crap... EBWOP:

V/LA till 8/4 (not 24)

[mothrax]

Ok here is my case

Page one

First reason is because Mothrax instantly buddies and wagons with the no RVS thing, says that he doesn't like it because all it does is start a conversation.

wait... what?

Honestly, I am not a big fan either

though

sometimes(most) it

is

the only way to start discussion.

did you actually read this post? Seriously? I didn't say I didn't like it because it starts discussion, I actually didn't give a reason for disliking it (neither here nor there.) I then admit that it is necessary in most cases because of the fact that it jumpstarts discussion. That doesn't sound at all like what you claimed I said...

Next he says that a RVS is necessary, which is very contradictory but also says he doesn't want to cast the first vote, but two vote were already cast moth...

again... reread those posts dear... I was asked why I didn't cast a vote and I said I didn't want to cast the first, it was referencing a past post (my first in which there was no vote)
[quote="drimawannabegangsta"

Page two

Here Moth you ask for a VC and say that the VC will prove your

innocence..

ummmmm no. [/quote]

My

defense

of the claim that I reacted poorly will depend on the vote count honestly...

defense=/=innocence

Then he says that from all of his great experience he has learned that wagoners are always scum, first off he joined less than a month ago, and once again I would like to point out that wagons are mostly Pro-Town in the early stages of games.
Then he admits to reading the game wrong

Ummm.... I never said that I had any great experience, I also never said that a bandwagoner is auto-scum, I said they seem scummy... also, most of my experience is offsite anyways... and we joined within two days of eachother... what gives you the right to call me out on time played?

Really guys don't get personal with things, I'm sorry Moth that he did that I know it was my character who did, but please don't hold that against me.

I don't hold what happened against anyone... it was a string of bad reactions... even if I were to play with ecto again, I would be civil. Just because I don't like someones playstyle doesn't mean I don't like them.


In Summary: I found that spot scummy when Ecto was there because it seemed as if he was fabricating arguments where there were none.
drmyblahblahblah did the same... I don't think he actually read my posts, just picked out a few key phrases and put words in my mouth...
the new guy... not enough to make an accurate read, but it seems like he uses big words to use big words

[mothrax]

My analysis is based on that slot and the way both of your predecesors played in it. I find both of their play to be scummy. Yours I have no read on yet. Also, it is spelled whining

[mothrax]

Well, there are multiple factors... what kinda drunk is bb, where is bb located, etc... I think it has an opportunity to be real because what gain would he have gotten if he were truly faking it?

[mothrax]

@zoneface: I was already voting for that slot... I just made it formal by unvoting ectomancer and voting drmyshottyizsik who replaced ecto. As for my bandwagoning comment on scot earlier, I dropped the point as soon as I saw the votecount... I thought when I cast my vote that I had more votes than that... thus the "my defense depends upon the vote count." statement.

[mothrax]

oops, ebwop @zoneace

[mothrax]

wow... l-3 within 5 posts in d-2... awesome...
I still find the ecto/nopoint/docwhatev slot scummy...
VOTE: nopointactingup

[mothrax]

Also, Taz, why vote for me when as far as I can recall I have not once been on your given list of suspects and you even defended me at one point?

[mothrax]

Scot, I have already said I didn't want to vote because I wanted to see where the discussion lead. And I believe my words were "sometimes necessary" which means not always.

[mothrax]

I didn't propose an alternative because I didn't have one, but I was more than open to anyone else's suggestion. And I guess I will play the newb card and say that this is only my 2nd onsite game. Every game on any other site I have played had no RVS, so I was not used to RVS, nor seeing it as an institution in the games.

[mothrax]

The on;y alternative I have is meta based, and it is on a site where we have all played at least 4-5 games together so we know how each other's playstyle well. Obviously, I have never played with any of you, and certainly not enough to know your playstyles to that point.

preview edit: because I recognize that this is a much larger pool of players, and obviously there has to be something to get discussion started and since RVS has become the generally accepted starting point, it is necessary in most games.

[mothrax]

I never refused to do it, I just didn't. I already said, I WANTED TO SEE WHERE THE DISCUSSION LEAD. I don't know how many more times I have to answer this question, but my answer isn't going to change. I was open to alternatives and didn't want to just shut the possible discussion up, which is what I thought an RV would do.

[mothrax]

also, here, if you want you can look at the games I have played in, starting with SuperheroMafia: http://www.rockpapercynic.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=21

[mothrax]

That is an easy answer, my wagon is bigger, which makes me a more likely lynch for the day.

[mothrax]

Maybe because scum driven wagons don't work Taz... good try though... here is a question for you: How have you not pinged my scumdar harder?

i see that the mothrax wagon is full of horsepower.

Quite true, if by horsepower you mean scumpower. Your constant fluff and craplogic are enough to make my stomach curl.

Unvote; Vote Tazaro

[mothrax]

Well, your posts on top of the stomach virus currently rocking my system.
Your vote for me with no logic is illplaced and when asked you simply respond with "other people are doing it" Way to hop on what you thought would be an easy wagon.
I also find it interesting that you have buddied up with zone quite a bit since he has replaced in. I will have to iso him too... but here you go for you: I am starting you at 50 on a scale of 1-100, 50 is null, 100 is town, 1 is scum.
0:Intro style post blah +0
1:defends me and drmy, claiming playstyle over analysis (bullshit, more like trying to buddy up to me; good try though, had me fooled for a bit.) -1
2:wants to get people unified +1
3: everyone stop scumhunting if someone makes one slip and autolynch that person. (good try, no one ever acts 100% townie Taz, one slip is not enough point for a lynch.) -1
4-8: fluff regarding drunk post. not going to give you -1 for each, but they do add up; -2
9: calling omgus on bb, when it was not there... -1
10: more buddying to me -1
11: vote on lurker CDB, pushing easy lynch -1
12-18 fluff diguised as VCA and setup speculation -3
19-20: buddying up to zone? that or just fluff. -1
21-23 pushing for CDB to provide content +2
24-25 deadline worries with hopes for CDB lynch, can be either town or scum, but judging by earlier posts, Iwould say scum wanting a mislynch. -2
26: fluff -0
27: buddying to cuet, vote for me with no logic -2
28: response to being called out on no logic behind vote with another explanation that explains nothing. -1
29-48 the rest is fluff and defending your craplogic, as well as more buddying to cuet and even some to scot -10
Conclusion: Taz= -29=scum
lynch him plz.

[mothrax]

Consider this Taz: your case on me sucks. My case on you does not. The difference between the two of us is when I play, I play. I make cases, and I find scum. I suggest you do the same now. If you want me lynched, then come up with a case other than "Other's pointed you out as scummy so you must be."
Incase you were wondering, I am just getting warmed up.

[mothrax]

That's what I thought.

[mothrax]

Can we get a hammer please?

[mothrax]

Grrr. Who called nopoint scum d2?